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  1. #1
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2011
    Messages
    122

    Why are Warsteeds so weak?

    Just why are they so weak? My fire spec'd RK can kill a normal mob in western Rohan with just three spells while on foot. Attempting the same on a warsteed takes a lot more spells to perform the same kill. At this point I am spending less and less time mounted, and reserving the steed for times when mobility over fire power matters, like taking on a war band where you want to stay out of melee range. By my reckoning the damage dealing abilities of the war steed should be close to the damage dealing abilities of any class in it's dismounted state, but it's not even close.

    Was the warsteed a fad that had only a limited use in Eastemnet? I'm sure this has been beaten to death on the forums, but I haven't seen a thread addressing it.

    And finally turbine, please please please fix it so deconstructing bridles gives up bridle relics.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000004e1e46/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [center][COLOR="#FFD700"]Broken Signature provided by Turbine Quality Control[/COLOR][/center]

  2. #2
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2012
    Localisation
    2 Waterbank Road, Eryn Lelryn, Falathlorn Homesteads
    Messages
    1 875
    Warsteed is good for survivability.

    I use the warsteed on my hunter in Blue line, when I need to live. My DPS is far better on foot, but the blue line WC has a lot of self heals to stay alive longer. And in the end, a dead hunter doesn't have any DPS, so I'd rather stay alive with lower DPS than die.
    Tarphindiel~Hu~100, Tolella~Mi~86, Ryeberry~Gu~80, Torfrik~Rk~80, Arindis~Be~60
    Meleras~Wd~50, Minethril~Ca~49, Diorwen~Ch~44, Indiria~Lm~38, Alanda~Bu~32
    And Fourteen Other Alts
    Founder of Gladden's "The Fellowship of the Ping"

  3. #3
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2011
    Messages
    2 780
    Fire RK, red dawn, on warsteed is long duration DOT. It is meant for huge morale mobs, not trash

    Use lightning / riddermark on warsteed to one shot and dismount mobs, you'll oneshot normal mobs for 20-30k damage each skill with a well built light bridle.
    Dernière modification par Leixy ; 28/07/2014 à 13h18.
    LvL 100s: Beorning, Burglar, Captain, Champ, Guardian, Hunter, Lore-Master, Minstrel, Rune-Keeper
    LvL 85: Warden, Minstrel
    All my forum posts are my opinions and may not even be that. Also On Twitter: @leixicon

  4. #4
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2010
    Messages
    2 053
    Citation Envoyé par Moorgar Voir le message
    Just why are they so weak? My fire spec'd RK can kill a normal mob in western Rohan with just three spells while on foot. Attempting the same on a warsteed takes a lot more spells to perform the same kill. At this point I am spending less and less time mounted, and reserving the steed for times when mobility over fire power matters, like taking on a war band where you want to stay out of melee range. By my reckoning the damage dealing abilities of the war steed should be close to the damage dealing abilities of any class in it's dismounted state, but it's not even close.

    Was the warsteed a fad that had only a limited use in Eastemnet? I'm sure this has been beaten to death on the forums, but I haven't seen a thread addressing it.

    And finally turbine, please please please fix it so deconstructing bridles gives up bridle relics.
    I can quite often one-shot mobs on my Light War-Steed. On my war-steed as a hunter I am pretty invincible. I'm no slouch on foot but the ability to crank out consistent damage on my war-steed is no issue at for me. I'm decked out with Level 100 First Ager and 54000+ Physical Mastery (haven't even started with the new armor yet, still using level 95 armor). My guardian on light war-steed can still one-shot things easy enough as well. Although when I am done with the "mass group" warband bosses on my guardian, I dismount and just AoE everything to death. That's the one thing I miss on my war-steed is the AoE capabilities.


    It might be different for other classes, though. I haven't played an RK on a war-steed.
    Chromite (Hunter) - Grumbletocks (Guardian) on Landroval, Appendage (Hunter) on Brandywine

  5. #5
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2011
    Messages
    604
    I absolutely love my warsteed, mainly because I've accepted that on my 6 characters only the hunter is meant to actually fight non-warband mobs on it. Warsteeds generally are worse for dps but you can move so fast, be so sturdy and just completely ignore mobs while picking stuff up/harvesting/etc that I'd be lost without it.
    You gotta chill to take it to the next level.

  6. #6
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2011
    Messages
    2 780
    yup, the benefits of warsteed far outweigh the loss of DPS, unless you're a warden and can just tank everything on foot.

    The W Gondor warbands are very weak compared to their Helms Deep counterparts, I figure that's because the corsairs didn't bring horses with them, but also turbine didn't put much effort into them either, and none of the warbands have archers either.
    LvL 100s: Beorning, Burglar, Captain, Champ, Guardian, Hunter, Lore-Master, Minstrel, Rune-Keeper
    LvL 85: Warden, Minstrel
    All my forum posts are my opinions and may not even be that. Also On Twitter: @leixicon

  7. #7
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2011
    Messages
    2 780
    I did some thinking on this today, and I remembered a bug that happened with Update 12 trait trees on minstrel. during RoR, when you re-traited at a bard, your critical bonuses translated into your warsteed traits. Minstrel has a + Morale trait in dissonance line, well, minstrels would get on their war-steeds, and that trait no longer functioned, so minstrels would lose up to 1,000 morale simply by being on their war-steed. This bug probably affects other passive traits on warsteed, like crit bonuses, etc.

    I'm guessing that when the trait trees came out, many, if not all, of your trait bonuses you had at a bard no longer were magnified by the bridle/traits. This is why we probably all saw a massive loss in DPS on warsteed when Update 12 came out, which has continued to this day.
    LvL 100s: Beorning, Burglar, Captain, Champ, Guardian, Hunter, Lore-Master, Minstrel, Rune-Keeper
    LvL 85: Warden, Minstrel
    All my forum posts are my opinions and may not even be that. Also On Twitter: @leixicon

  8. #8
    Date d'inscription
    mai 2012
    Localisation
    Australia
    Messages
    100
    I find RK on heavy was steed is almost unstoppable. I can ride around or if lazy just stand and fight. If i do run out of power i can duck off, dismount and take off again before i get pounced on.

    I only have 2 relics slotted in its bridle.

    Same on the LM, although, with her I will dismount and fight if someone else with me and mob is balled up tight.

  9. #9
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2012
    Messages
    1 631
    Citation Envoyé par Leixy Voir le message
    I did some thinking on this today, and I remembered a bug that happened with Update 12 trait trees on minstrel. during RoR, when you re-traited at a bard, your critical bonuses translated into your warsteed traits. Minstrel has a + Morale trait in dissonance line, well, minstrels would get on their war-steeds, and that trait no longer functioned, so minstrels would lose up to 1,000 morale simply by being on their war-steed. This bug probably affects other passive traits on warsteed, like crit bonuses, etc.

    I'm guessing that when the trait trees came out, many, if not all, of your trait bonuses you had at a bard no longer were magnified by the bridle/traits. This is why we probably all saw a massive loss in DPS on warsteed when Update 12 came out, which has continued to this day.
    Yep, with the release of Helm's Deep, all regular traits were set to go inactive (not a bug, that's 100% WAI) when you mount up, while before HD, on-foot traits were still working. This means if you had traits that increased certain types of damage, crit chance/magnitude etc.,they all no longer work on warsteed. This is a massive loss in DPS for some classes. A while later some traits that give morale and power were made active again, but the rest still doesn't work when mounted.

    Another thing is that Fury Contribution caps at 7.5%, which is around 10k rating, so updating your bridle for more fury rating, will result in no DPS buff.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  10. #10
    Date d'inscription
    avril 2011
    Messages
    3 001
    Citation Envoyé par woodwren Voir le message
    RK [...] If i do run out of power i can duck off, [...] Same on the LM,
    You run out of power on RK and LM? o.O

    You do know that you can change Disciplines in the middle of battle... Right?
    RK: Rohirrim - Oration -> Power/War-steed Power HoT
    LM: Riddermark - Bond of the Rider -> AoE Power/War-steed Power Heal

    In fact, out of all 9 classes, only Wardens, Guardians and Burglars are lacking in guaranteed power heals. Wardens and Guardians have skills that heal power-heal on crit.

  11. #11
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2013
    Messages
    615
    Citation Envoyé par Moorgar Voir le message
    Just why are they so weak? My fire spec'd RK can kill a normal mob in western Rohan with just three spells while on foot. Attempting the same on a warsteed takes a lot more spells to perform the same kill. At this point I am spending less and less time mounted, and reserving the steed for times when mobility over fire power matters, like taking on a war band where you want to stay out of melee range. By my reckoning the damage dealing abilities of the war steed should be close to the damage dealing abilities of any class in it's dismounted state, but it's not even close.
    I agree. I have a lightning-based RK and he is almost worthless on horseback. Though, seeing him lightning bolt something is pretty cool.

    Seriously though, ALL my characters that have made it to Rohan have experienced serious damage reduction while on horseback. There are times when I'm playing a hunter where I will have them dismount and continue the attack on foot. I discovered that some mounted mobs find this tactic confusing because they simply come to a grinding halt in front of the hunter. I then use their reduced firepower against them to take them out. Doesn't work all the time, good luck tracking a mounted mob who knows what they're doing, but it works often enough.

    From a RP standpoint, I simply figure the reduced damage is due to it being harder to hit a moving target while on horseback. Never having tried, I have no idea if this is true, but it lets me sleep at night.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is my personal opinion.

  12. #12
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2011
    Messages
    140
    Its just about the LI your using for your warsteed i think because i did hit alot on wardens and never ran out of power my warden i think when you spent time looking into mounted combat you will do more damage mounted then dismounted
    Maltazard 100 Lore-Master Bloodsspears 100 Warden Goldhunter-1 100 Hunter Sparklie 100 Rune-Keeper Brandywine

  13. #13
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2008
    Messages
    899
    Citation Envoyé par jason12323 Voir le message
    Its just about the LI your using for your warsteed i think because i did hit alot on wardens and never ran out of power my warden i think when you spent time looking into mounted combat you will do more damage mounted then dismounted
    With the sheer number of AoE bleeds + single target bleeds a Warden can dish out on foot, there is no competition. MC Warden only has AoE skills while in blue line (except call of the cavalry in every line), and the DPS in blue line is terrible. The bleeds in MC are also terrible only giving something like 200 damage/3 second bleeds. I mean just Brink of Victory does over 2000 initial damage and 2000 damage every 4 seconds for 20 seconds on a very moderate tanking build. Now add in SoD and Desolation, then the single target SoV and Piercing Strike, and you are doing nearly 4000 dps just on bleeds.

    No bridle will help you get to even 1/10th the dps of an unmounted Warden.

  14. #14
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2011
    Messages
    2 780
    Well, ya, it's obvious that U12 eliminated skills and traits from boosting DPS on warsteed.

    I know my mini lost about 75% of its DPS on warsteed from U11 to U12, it's bleeds on medium bridle went from 800+ damage per tick down to 200 damage per bleed tick. It basically made medium bridles 100% useless. Due to traits and LI crit bonuses, bleed traits, and legacies no longer stacking with war-steed bridles, like it was during RoR.

    Obviously this was not completely as intended (reference the fix to minstrel morale), and is likely a by-product of not vetting the effect trait trees would have on mounted combat.

    Then again, turbine did lay off most of the QA staff soon after this occurred.
    LvL 100s: Beorning, Burglar, Captain, Champ, Guardian, Hunter, Lore-Master, Minstrel, Rune-Keeper
    LvL 85: Warden, Minstrel
    All my forum posts are my opinions and may not even be that. Also On Twitter: @leixicon

  15. #15
    Date d'inscription
    mai 2012
    Localisation
    Australia
    Messages
    100
    Citation Envoyé par HaleElven Voir le message
    You run out of power on RK and LM? o.O

    You do know that you can change Disciplines in the middle of battle... Right?
    RK: Rohirrim - Oration -> Power/War-steed Power HoT
    LM: Riddermark - Bond of the Rider -> AoE Power/War-steed Power Heal

    In fact, out of all 9 classes, only Wardens, Guardians and Burglars are lacking in guaranteed power heals. Wardens and Guardians have skills that heal power-heal on crit.
    i did say 'if'.......

  16. #16
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2011
    Messages
    2 780
    Guardians actually have a very good warsteed power heal.

    But it's a two step process.

    You have to unlock rohan's edge with a crit, then switch to riddermark, then also get a crit on a skill that restores power.

    Heavy bridle helps this process because you have a 50% crit chance in dps gear.

    So when you see Rohan's edge unlock, you just look to see if you need morale, or power, then swap to rohirrim, or riddermark stance and x-fingers for the crit hit to get the power/morale restore.
    LvL 100s: Beorning, Burglar, Captain, Champ, Guardian, Hunter, Lore-Master, Minstrel, Rune-Keeper
    LvL 85: Warden, Minstrel
    All my forum posts are my opinions and may not even be that. Also On Twitter: @leixicon

  17. #17
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2008
    Messages
    680
    I'm a bit lazy about my warsteed. I update it every time level cap is increased, but that's basically it. I don't put any time or effort in getting the most out of it, and I got to say it works pretty well for me. (But oh, wow, I do put some effort to get my warsteed looking nice =D) I'm a hunter and circling around kiting and shooting gets every mob and warband down. All I need is time. I have died, yes, but the couple of times it happened it was due to my lack of interest and boredom. I know this sounds cocky, but it's just the way it goes. So, to answer your question, OP, no, I don't think warsteeds are weak. Actually, I think they are so strong I'm practically invincible riding one. And I mean a light one.

  18. #18
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2011
    Messages
    2 780
    Citation Envoyé par Lasagabaster Voir le message
    I'm a bit lazy about my warsteed. I update it every time level cap is increased, but that's basically it. I don't put any time or effort in getting the most out of it, and I got to say it works pretty well for me.
    It's ok, turbine has ignored warsteed skills/traits since Update 11, and warsteeds completely since Update 12.1.

    Oh, and if you feel invincible, go do the warbands in wildermore and the stonedeans in HD, they'll oneshot a light steed. lol.
    Dernière modification par Leixy ; 20/08/2014 à 16h38.
    LvL 100s: Beorning, Burglar, Captain, Champ, Guardian, Hunter, Lore-Master, Minstrel, Rune-Keeper
    LvL 85: Warden, Minstrel
    All my forum posts are my opinions and may not even be that. Also On Twitter: @leixicon

  19. #19
    Date d'inscription
    février 2012
    Localisation
    New York
    Messages
    500
    As a Mini I just regard war-steeds as the ultimate survival gear. With the unbeatable kiting abilities and the self-heals still at a pre-nerf level you can solo any war-band or landscape elite in the game.

    Sure the DPS is much lower at lvl 100 than unmounted but it would be kind of OP to have crushing DPS along with all that survivability.

  20. #20
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Finland
    Messages
    2 275
    I haven't paid much attention to my war-steed gear, all my characters still use lvl 85 second age bridles. When level cap has been getting higher, I was wondering if that's why my characters don't seem to do that much damage to mobs as they used to be when mounted combat was introduced. As if mob morale has gone up, but my mounted damage has remained the same as it was at lvl 85. But since bridles don't have DPS legacy and in many cases I don't utilize fury much, I haven't been sure why mounted combat seems less effective nowadays.

    After reading this thread, apparently I am not the only one. I thought maybe I should switch to lvl 100 Second Age bridle, but apparently there are no recipies for those. I have recipies for lvl 95 second age bridles and I get lvl 100 third age bridles as drops, but I was wondering if there is any benefit in upgrading my lvl 85 SA bridles to lvl 95 SA bridles OR lvl 100 TA bridles. I guess there is not.

    But like others have said, mounted combat still has it uses, as especially light armour classes survive lot better on war-steed (solo Morthrond Epic instance is one good example here) and of course war-steed is fast way to get from place A to place B

  21. #21
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2011
    Messages
    2 780
    Right now fury contribution rating is capped at 7.5%. i.e. a fury rating of around 7,200.

    A lvl 85 bridle gets you most of the way there, and any bridle with a fury rating over 7,200 can only use 7,200 of their rating... i.e. lvl 95+ bridles with 19,000+ fury rating get zero benefit after the first 7,200 rating.

    Definitely an oversight on turbine's part.
    LvL 100s: Beorning, Burglar, Captain, Champ, Guardian, Hunter, Lore-Master, Minstrel, Rune-Keeper
    LvL 85: Warden, Minstrel
    All my forum posts are my opinions and may not even be that. Also On Twitter: @leixicon

  22. #22
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2007
    Messages
    12 820
    Gee, war-steeds are weak? I thought it was just me.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  23. #23
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2010
    Messages
    2 053
    Citation Envoyé par djheydt Voir le message
    Gee, war-steeds are weak? I thought it was just me.
    It's not just you but they also aren't weak.

    They are weak if a person doesn't know how to use them, though.
    Chromite (Hunter) - Grumbletocks (Guardian) on Landroval, Appendage (Hunter) on Brandywine

  24. #24
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2010
    Localisation
    Somewhere
    Messages
    82
    For my champ, DPS actually goes up when she's sitting on her heavy steed. Sure, she loses most of her AoE skills and the really heavy hitting skills she has, but overall her stats go up, making her pretty much a bulldozer on that horse. And I haven't updated anything on the horse since Wildermore....

    But mostly instead of sinking all my points into things that only increase the stat(s) of one or two things, I sink my points into things that increase base stats like morale regen, might, vitality, and so forth.

    I don't think that warsteeds in of themselves are weak. It's knowing how to use them. Just like most daggers are better suited for stabbing and not slicing.
    [IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/10hncxh.jpg[/IMG]
    [COLOR="#8B4513"][MY ALTS] [B]Balvur[/B] warden/ [b]Hallti[/b] guardian/ [b]Hila[/b] burglar/ [b]Elenauriel[/b] runekeeper/ [b]Dolmifaynar[/b] minstrel [/COLOR]
    I speak my mind because it [COLOR="#B22222"][i]hurts[/i][/COLOR] to bite my tongue

  25. #25
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    11

    I hate war steeds!

    I only use mine when I totally have to, in areas where I'd be wiped out if I didn't. I find the things so cumbersome to "drive" Imagine piloting an overwieight mother in law around an ice rink in a supermarket trolley, that's your war steed dynamic. Horrendous.

 

 
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