Inc healing Debuffs

[Gray]

They don't stack freepside, some of them dont at least. Can someone test creepside ?

And is this a bug ?

[Voter]

They don't stack freepside, some of them dont at least. Can someone test creepside ?

And is this a bug ?

Incoming and outgoing healing rebuffs don't stack on creepside.

[Gray]

Incoming and outgoing healing rebuffs don't stack on creepside.

So i tested, blight + devast strike and they still stack.

If someone can test other freep inc healing debuffs than capi + hunter which surely dont stack.

[Lord_Cryptic]

So i tested, blight + devast strike and they still stack.

If someone can test other freep inc healing debuffs than capi + hunter which surely dont stack.

different classes stack however same classes do not

[Gray]

different classes stack however same classes do not

So there is a problem, cause grave wound didnt stack with merciful or HS debuff, two different class debuffs which dont stack.

[Lord_Cryptic]

So there is a problem, cause grave wound didnt stack with merciful or HS debuff, two different class debuffs which dont stack.

that would be new because they used to

[Gray]

Adding that RK debuff and capi dont stack either. It seems that very few inc healing debuffs stack freepside.

[Moors-Battlemaster]

Adding that RK debuff and capi dont stack either. It seems that very few inc healing debuffs stack freepside.

Probably because they're much harder to remove and more plentiful than creep inc healing debuffs.

[Gray]

Probably because they're much harder to remove and more plentiful than creep inc healing debuffs.

I didnt created this thread to know if they were balanced or not, just to gather information about how they work. I'd like to keep the QQ/trolling/goggles out of this

[sarefx]

Interesting thread.

From what I remember the only freepside incoming healing buff that stacks with other is the burglar one that comes from relics 10% chance on Subtle Strike to put -50% incoming healing modifier on target. Chance can be increased to 20% if both relics are slotted, also if you have old pvp armor with 4 pieces it adds another 50% chance, so in total 70% chance to put incoming healing modifier with subtle strike. Correct me if im wrong.

Cappy has 2. 1 from grave wound -50% incoming healing to a target for 5 sec with 15 sec CD, only in red line with certain traits. And other from Routing Cry -35% incoming healing for 4 targets for 10 sec in radius around you with CD of 15 sec, with 4 pieces of loyalty armor set bonus.

Can other classes post what they can do.

[MasterOfNothing]

Can other classes post what they can do.

In redline hunter has HeartSeeker (HS), which gives 50% incoming healing debuff for 8 sec on 2 min CD.

With 4 pieces of predator armor set hunter gets Merciful shot (MS) augmented with a 50% incoming healing debuff for 10 sec.
CD is 30 sec, but with maxed LI legacy it can be reduced to 20 sec.

[Jimmicusthegreen]

Interesting thread.

From what I remember the only freepside incoming healing buff that stacks with other is the burglar one that comes from relics 10% chance on Subtle Strike to put -50% incoming healing modifier on target. Chance can be increased to 20% if both relics are slotted, also if you have old pvp armor with 4 pieces it adds another 50% chance, so in total 70% chance to put incoming healing modifier with subtle strike. Correct me if im wrong.

Cappy has 2. 1 from grave wound -50% incoming healing to a target for 5 sec with 15 sec CD, only in red line with certain traits. And other from Routing Cry -35% incoming healing for 4 targets for 10 sec in radius around you with CD of 15 sec, with 4 pieces of loyalty armor set bonus.

Can other classes post what they can do.

Wardens have a 4-piece armor set that let's you get -12.5% incoming healing debuff that stacks twice and lasts 30 seconds. Gambits you can use are Onlsaught (spear-shield-spear); Adroit Manoeuvor (spear-fist-shield-spear); and Warden's Triumph (spear-fist-shield-spear-fist). There's another trio of skills that can be used to put a small -10% incoming heal debuff but only lasts 10 seconds and is only usable in red line (I think).

[Gray]

Wardens have a 4-piece armor set that let's you get -12.5% incoming healing debuff that stacks twice and lasts 30 seconds. Gambits you can use are Onlsaught (spear-shield-spear); Adroit Manoeuvor (spear-fist-shield-spear); and Warden's Triumph (spear-fist-shield-spear-fist). There's another trio of skills that can be used to put a small -10% incoming heal debuff but only lasts 10 seconds and is only usable in red line (I think).

Redline is the only setup worthing something in PvP anyways, going assault for those tactical/ranged debuffs is silly imo.

Btw thanks for the input guys, if some of you can test which debuffs stack between classes that could be awesome.

Ftm we know that:

- These debuffs dont stack: Grave wound (-50%) , MS/HS (both 50%), routing cry (35%) and RK debuff (30%), had to be tested with warden/burg debuffs.
- Burg relic debuff stack with others as said above.

[BrekkaSrbenda]

Redline is the only setup worthing something in PvP anyways, going assault for those tactical/ranged debuffs is silly imo.

Btw thanks for the input guys, if some of you can test which debuffs stack between classes that could be awesome.

Ftm we know that:

- These debuffs dont stack: Grave wound (-50%) , MS/HS (both 50%), routing cry (35%) and RK debuff (30%), had to be tested with warden/burg debuffs.
- Burg relic debuff stack with others as said above.

Problem is that 99.99% of burgs dont use the relic debuff.
As for other debuffs that dont stack, well, they shouldnt. There should be DR on -inc heal%. Or cap. Like 70% is max. Or something like that imho.

[Gray]

Problem is that 99.99% of burgs dont use the relic debuff.
As for other debuffs that dont stack, well, they shouldnt. There should be DR on -inc heal%. Or cap. Like 70% is max. Or something like that imho.

I totally agree.

And i think that burgs dont use it because, in the end, it's not a reliable debuff to begin with. the proc chance is way to low to be viable in a high target switching environment which is PvP.

[sarefx]

Problem is that 99.99% of burgs dont use the relic debuff.
As for other debuffs that dont stack, well, they shouldnt. There should be DR on -inc heal%. Or cap. Like 70% is max. Or something like that imho.

Well i believe that those relics are pointless solo, but if burg decided to join a raid those 20% is better than what ever other relics they can slot instead.

[Gannet]

Well i believe that those relics are pointless solo, but if burg decided to join a raid those 20% is better than what ever other relics they can slot instead.

On Elendilmir I have not seen a freep raid to join and test it since U13, but I agree in principle. The proc chance is pretty poor, though - it has never yet been a game-changer for me in small group play, and the usefulness of its application probably varies quite massively depending on the makeup of both freep and creep group.

[BrekkaSrbenda]

Well i believe that those relics are pointless solo, but if burg decided to join a raid those 20% is better than what ever other relics they can slot instead.

True, but then you need to have at least 2 weapons/bags just for the Moors + the PvE ones. It takes the crystal of remembrance and other crystals, alot of scrolls and relics, too much pain for not so potent debuff imo, cause other classes can get that thing on creep without anything similar
(Not asking for burglars to have that without relic*)

[ulza]

Interesting thread.

From what I remember the only freepside incoming healing buff that stacks with other is the burglar one that comes from relics 10% chance on Subtle Strike to put -50% incoming healing modifier on target. Chance can be increased to 20% if both relics are slotted, also if you have old pvp armor with 4 pieces it adds another 50% chance, so in total 70% chance to put incoming healing modifier with subtle strike. Correct me if im wrong.

The old moors set had a 30% chance not a 50% chance.

Well i believe that those relics are pointless solo, but if burg decided to join a raid those 20% is better than what ever other relics they can slot instead.

I tried out the relic both for solo and raid (9 man). I managed to find a few solo creeps and it felt like the relic didnt make a difference. I tried this on a few defilers as well on a few other classes. Since i run as gambler i spam Subtle stab most of the times. Since the skill is a 3s cooldown with a 10% chance. We could say you are able to debuff a creep for 10seconds every 30seconds.

During the raid i was mainly cc'ing the high ranked defiler while the rest was blowing up the warleader (creeps had a group 6 with 2 healers and some taggers). Again it felt like I could have slotted some better relic. Maybe the relic would have been usefull if i was QK traited and dps'ing instead of stunlocking.

[Ames]

As for other debuffs that dont stack, well, they shouldnt. There should be DR on -inc heal%. Or cap. Like 70% is max. Or something like that imho.

Agreed. Maybe not DR but capped or something. Although in a heal stacked moors stacking heal debuffs is one way to punch through morale. I think the stacking to bring incoming healing down to nothing shouldn't happen or if it stacks it should stack on both sides for the amount of healing on both sides now. Without the debuffs in GvG and RvR kills might be harder to come by.

[spelunker]

Agreed. Maybe not DR but capped or something.

So long as there are no limitations on the number of a given role in a given encounter (never), there shouldn't be a cap on -inc healing from different sources unless that cap is 150% (though the bug where -inc healing putting a target into negative values causing heals to damage a target should be eliminated).

[Bond007]

Does anyone know if the Captain's Loyalty set Routing Cry debuff and Hunter's Merciful Shot debuff from Predator set stack?

I was in a freep group a couple days ago and it seemed like the cappy debuffs were wiping the hunter debuffs from MS (although not from HS in redline). Would be cool if someone knew.

[Ames]

So long as there are no limitations on the number of a given role in a given encounter (never), there shouldn't be a cap on -inc healing from different sources unless that cap is 150% (though the bug where -inc healing putting a target into negative values causing heals to damage a target should be eliminated).

why not?-150% debuff is huge on either side frankly. If it is only stackable for one side then how is that ok? Either limit it or stack it to an extent on both sides within the classes available heal debuffs. Yes freeps having more available heal debuffs could represent a problem hence limiting it.

[spelunker]

why not?-150% debuff is huge on either side frankly. If it is only stackable for one side then how is that ok? Either limit it or stack it to an extent on both sides within the classes available heal debuffs. Yes freeps having more available heal debuffs could represent a problem hence limiting it.

150% is what it takes to nullify a r15 creep, which is why i chose the value. freeps require 130%, both sides have readily available ways to increase incoming healing values by healing classes so these values wouldn't nullify all sources of healing. The +inc healing attached to creep BFPs is a pretty poorly thought out addition to the BFP system to be frank, in which case a 110% cap on -inc healing debuffs would be better (since freeps are rarely able to itemize for more than about +10%)

I never said it should be limited to one side. DS should stack with blight and agonizing maul, just not multiple sources of the same debuff for either side.

The point is the moors is becoming a a massive healfest dryhump session and for me at least that makes the game suck. I could care less about dying, and I greatly value what a skilled healer brings to the table, but when there is no limitation on how many people can take part in a fight, and no limitation on which classes get involved, ridiculous overhealing becomes a gamebreaking problem. Allowing more potent useage of inc healing debuffs would be one viable way to reduce the craptastic turn group fights have taken in the moors. I'm fine with creepside getting more sources of inc heal debuffs as well, maybe -25% for 10-15s for WLs Black speech and BAs In your face (tied to traits)?

[Gray]

Does anyone know if the Captain's Loyalty set Routing Cry debuff and Hunter's Merciful Shot debuff from Predator set stack?

I was in a freep group a couple days ago and it seemed like the cappy debuffs were wiping the hunter debuffs from MS (although not from HS in redline). Would be cool if someone knew.

As stated above, they don't man.

Have to add something, wardens 2x12.5% and grave wound stack, tested it on my WL yesterday with some freep fellows.