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  1. #1
    Date d'inscription
    février 2007
    Messages
    172

    no more elder king symbols at max level

    Once the game is balanced and difficulty is no longer laughable and first age items are reintroduced, I feel it would add a certain uniqueness to your character if first age items randomly dropped at the end of raids. Instead of buying them from skirmish vendors.

  2. #2
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2011
    Messages
    1 118
    I'm ok with the system they used with Erebor. It gave people who cannot participate in 12 man raids a chance to (at a much longer grind) get first age items.
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq358/drschplatt/sig-lotro95.jpg[/IMG]
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    [/CENTER]

  3. #3
    Date d'inscription
    février 2007
    Messages
    172
    Citation Envoyé par Widoch Voir le message
    I'm ok with the system they used with Erebor. It gave people who cannot participate in 12 man raids a chance to (at a much longer grind) get first age items.
    There is always the auction house.

  4. #4
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2013
    Messages
    202
    Yeah, Auction House. They were selling for 6000g when 85 FAs were introduced. Last years' system was nice except for the fact that you could get symbols from T1 runs. Also we don't have raids anymore. Putting symbols at the end of solo/duo BBs would be ridiculous. I thought about it a lot but i don't see how they can add FA symbols without giving them away to everyone.

  5. #5
    Date d'inscription
    février 2007
    Messages
    172
    Citation Envoyé par unip0pcorn Voir le message
    Yeah, Auction House. They were selling for 6000g when 85 FAs were introduced. Last years' system was nice except for the fact that you could get symbols from T1 runs. Also we don't have raids anymore. Putting symbols at the end of solo/duo BBs would be ridiculous. I thought about it a lot but i don't see how they can add FA symbols without giving them away to everyone.
    If they drop at the end of every raid, I don't see them going for 6000 gold. It might even bring balance back to the Lotro economy since way too much gold drops now. TBH I don't see why a casual player who doesn't play group content need anything heavier than a 3rd age item.

  6. #6
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2011
    Messages
    4 303
    Citation Envoyé par Widoch Voir le message
    I'm ok with the system they used with Erebor. It gave people who cannot participate in 12 man raids a chance to (at a much longer grind) get first age items.
    That is where I differ. Other than "raids" and PvMP there is no need for a first ager. It used to be the only way to get them was through the raids or Auction House. Having them in the skirmish camp at lvl 85 severly diminished the "Awesomeness" of having one. They were a challenge to get and should remain that way. Not every person on the game at max level should have one. Same with t2 raid gear. Give the people who raid something to actually raid for. If they choose afterwords to sell them at HIGH prices or pass them off to Kinnies that is fine... but PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THEM AWAY LIKE CANDY.

    In all Honesty I think even having the Second age symbols on the skirmish camp at the Launch of HD was a mistake. Yes there were no new raids.. but those symbols should have been raid drops only.
    Welcome to Maitenance Mode
    Please Add Draigoch Scales to the Skrimish Camp or Rep Barter Vendors in Dunland We are 30 Levels Past that Content
    And when the Devs make fun of how buggy it is in Bingo that should tell you something
    Peace Love and Tacos

  7. #7
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2007
    Messages
    820
    Citation Envoyé par kickman77 Voir le message
    That is where I differ. Other than "raids" and PvMP there is no need for a first ager. It used to be the only way to get them was through the raids or Auction House. Having them in the skirmish camp at lvl 85 severly diminished the "Awesomeness" of having one. They were a challenge to get and should remain that way. Not every person on the game at max level should have one. Same with t2 raid gear. Give the people who raid something to actually raid for. If they choose afterwords to sell them at HIGH prices or pass them off to Kinnies that is fine... but PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THEM AWAY LIKE CANDY.

    In all Honesty I think even having the Second age symbols on the skirmish camp at the Launch of HD was a mistake. Yes there were no new raids.. but those symbols should have been raid drops only.
    In my opinion, the availability of legendary symbols is probably directly decided by the income that legendary items generate for Turbine. If a player has a third age, and spends any money on upgrading it, then they will probably spend money on a second age as well. Finally, I think they hold off on releasing the first age solely to milk the same cows that want to outfit themselves with the best gear. If I am right, it is a great way for them to make money, and I wholeheartedly support them placing it in the skirmish camp again this year.

  8. #8
    Date d'inscription
    février 2007
    Messages
    172
    Citation Envoyé par kickman77 Voir le message
    That is where I differ. Other than "raids" and PvMP there is no need for a first ager. It used to be the only way to get them was through the raids or Auction House. Having them in the skirmish camp at lvl 85 severly diminished the "Awesomeness" of having one. They were a challenge to get and should remain that way. Not every person on the game at max level should have one. Same with t2 raid gear. Give the people who raid something to actually raid for. If they choose afterwords to sell them at HIGH prices or pass them off to Kinnies that is fine... but PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THEM AWAY LIKE CANDY.

    In all Honesty I think even having the Second age symbols on the skirmish camp at the Launch of HD was a mistake. Yes there were no new raids.. but those symbols should have been raid drops only.
    The problem with Lotro now is there 2 kinds of people who play, "casual players" and "hardcore raiders" with no in between. I was content with doing 3-6 man runs because that eliminated AFKs by half. Since the release of HD I find myself joining raids more now. I liked it better when you had to accomplish something for a good reward...then they came out with skirmish camps.

  9. #9
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2011
    Messages
    4 303
    Citation Envoyé par Dantrag28 Voir le message
    The problem with Lotro now is there 2 kinds of people who play, "casual players" and "hardcore raiders" with no in between. I was content with doing 3-6 man runs because that eliminated AFKs by half. Since the release of HD I find myself joining raids more now. I liked it better when you had to accomplish something for a good reward...then they came out with skirmish camps.
    I honestly am kind of in between but I agree. Having everything available to everyone is not good. Sure it may boost a few sales but it pushes more people away. Raiders need something to work towards and if a player is not going to raid and or PvMP there is no need for a first ager. If you want the shiny stuff than work for it. It really is not all that challenging especially right now when even t2 challenge raids can be pugged and each wing only takes 30 minutes. It boils down to IMO that people want something for nothing and if person A has something Person B does not person B raises a stink that everyone should be able to get it.
    Welcome to Maitenance Mode
    Please Add Draigoch Scales to the Skrimish Camp or Rep Barter Vendors in Dunland We are 30 Levels Past that Content
    And when the Devs make fun of how buggy it is in Bingo that should tell you something
    Peace Love and Tacos

  10. #10
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2011
    Messages
    228
    Citation Envoyé par Widoch Voir le message
    I'm ok with the system they used with Erebor. It gave people who cannot participate in 12 man raids a chance to (at a much longer grind) get first age items.
    Fa symbols should be a reward for completing the hardest content in the game.....not readily available to people who farm sambrog for seals. Fa weapons are only needed to compete raids and in pvmp

    Its a complete joke that turbine make them available to everyone

  11. #11
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2010
    Messages
    478
    Citation Envoyé par Dantrag28 Voir le message
    The problem with Lotro now is there 2 kinds of people who play, "casual players" and "hardcore raiders" with no in between.
    Not necessarily true, and I think this is where Turbine messed up. There's a huge number of players who aren't 'hardcore raiders', but they still join raids occasionally. I know a lot of players would like to raid more but were unable to for various reasons. There was a huge 'halo effect' around hardcore raiders: they usually had all the good gear that everyone else wanted, and that kept people in the game hoping to someday get it themselves. By abandoning the hardcore raiders (with ezmode content and no new raids) they also marginalized that much larger second tier of players.
    [SIZE=3]NO SLEEP 'TILL MORDOR!![/SIZE]

  12. #12
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2010
    Messages
    374
    Citation Envoyé par Widoch Voir le message
    I'm ok with the system they used with Erebor. It gave people who cannot participate in 12 man raids a chance to (at a much longer grind) get first age items.
    No it didn't. You had to complete the erebor raids at least on t1 before you could even barter for a symbol at the highest price.

    Next lowest price, had to beat the erebor raids on t2.

    For the cheapest price, had to beat the erebor raids on t2c.

    So you STILL had to participate in the 12-man raids, at least on the lowest difficulty, at least once... before you sambrog farmed for seals.

    At least with today's LOTRO, you'd have to run multiple raid instances to have enough seals to barter - which works for me. I'd still prefer that T2C properly scaled end-game raids like BG and OD (and hopefully TOO in future) and erebor, had a chance drop First Age symbols from t2, and a higher chance or even a guarantee for one symbol from challenge chest.
    [COLOR="#40E0D0"]Turbine does not give out rewards based on the profit factor; because rewards must be earned by completing content.[/COLOR]

  13. #13
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2011
    Messages
    1 118
    Citation Envoyé par kickman77 Voir le message
    That is where I differ. Other than "raids" and PvMP there is no need for a first ager.
    The simple fact is no body needs a 1st age weapon period. The last difficult raid event was ToO T2C and it could be done by a well organized group using 2nd age gear. In PVMP you don't need a 1st age weapon either. It might be nice to have one, but no one needs it.
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  14. #14
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2011
    Messages
    4 303
    Citation Envoyé par Widoch Voir le message
    The simple fact is no body needs a 1st age weapon period. The last difficult raid event was ToO T2C and it could be done by a well organized group using 2nd age gear. In PVMP you don't need a 1st age weapon either. It might be nice to have one, but no one needs it.
    No you do not NEED it... but it makes those areas of the game worth something and makes them easier especially with the DPS adjustments coming. Hopefully soon everything will not be such a faceroll. So having a FA weapon going into a T2 raid would be extemely helpfull.
    Welcome to Maitenance Mode
    Please Add Draigoch Scales to the Skrimish Camp or Rep Barter Vendors in Dunland We are 30 Levels Past that Content
    And when the Devs make fun of how buggy it is in Bingo that should tell you something
    Peace Love and Tacos

  15. #15
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2011
    Messages
    1 118
    Citation Envoyé par kickman77 Voir le message
    No you do not NEED it... but it makes those areas of the game worth something and makes them easier especially with the DPS adjustments coming. Hopefully soon everything will not be such a faceroll. So having a FA weapon going into a T2 raid would be extemely helpfull.
    I agree with you here. That's the point I'm trying to make. My inability to get into multiple raid groups has nothing to do with my skill as a player, or my preferences in how I spend my time being it solo versus group play. In my situation I live in Asia so when I get on to play, it's 4am back in the USA. Now, I can get on Saturday or Sunday morning to play with groups and try to run raids, but scheduling as it is, a majority of the organized raid groups run on weeknights. So, if I do manage to get online at a time when people want to run hard raid stuff, it would be nice if there were a way for me to prepare and partake.

    I don't mind if it takes longer to get a 1st age symbol by bartering seals or some sort of token than it would just running the raid a few times. I wouldn't mind if there were some sort of raid drop like the scales did for cloaks. I'm cool with the fact that there should be a few things you can only get by really raiding your butt off. But a 1st age weapon should be obtainable by those of us who simply cannot get into as many raids so that when we are invited to participate in challenging content, we can actually be useful.

    I've never had a 1st age weapon at level cap, but then again it's been forever since they were needed.
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq358/drschplatt/sig-lotro95.jpg[/IMG]
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  16. #16
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2010
    Messages
    374
    Citation Envoyé par Widoch Voir le message
    But a 1st age weapon should be obtainable by those of us who simply cannot get into as many raids so that when we are invited to participate in challenging content, we can actually be useful.
    That's why there are 2nd agers, and it doesn't just jump from 3rd to 1st.
    [COLOR="#40E0D0"]Turbine does not give out rewards based on the profit factor; because rewards must be earned by completing content.[/COLOR]

  17. #17
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2011
    Messages
    1 118
    Citation Envoyé par Ithrien Voir le message
    That's why there are 2nd agers, and it doesn't just jump from 3rd to 1st.
    So you're saying that a person who puts more time and effort into the game should not be able to achieve items gained by those with less effort? 1 hour a week can get you first age gear if you're in a static raid group. Pretty lazy if you don't allow the person who spends 10 hours a week grinding to get the same stuff.

    But the original point was, if they ever do create difficult enough content where 1st age items are nearly a requirement, Turbine must provide a way for players who simply cannot join static raids to be able to participate. Why on earth would you reward someone who gets on twice a week for an hour to run a raid and log off more than someone who is willing to grind out extra hours for a reward?
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq358/drschplatt/sig-lotro95.jpg[/IMG]
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  18. #18
    Date d'inscription
    mai 2008
    Localisation
    Australia
    Messages
    529
    Citation Envoyé par Widoch Voir le message
    So you're saying that a person who puts more time and effort into the game should not be able to achieve items gained by those with less effort? 1 hour a week can get you first age gear if you're in a static raid group. Pretty lazy if you don't allow the person who spends 10 hours a week grinding to get the same stuff.

    But the original point was, if they ever do create difficult enough content where 1st age items are nearly a requirement, Turbine must provide a way for players who simply cannot join static raids to be able to participate. Why on earth would you reward someone who gets on twice a week for an hour to run a raid and log off more than someone who is willing to grind out extra hours for a reward?
    Well said, i agree with you completely.


    PS I live in Australia, so i feel your time zone pain!
    [color=green]"Freeps raid to get their skills and gear, then come out and complain about creeps raiding to get their skills...hypocrite much?"[/color]

  19. #19
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2010
    Messages
    374
    Citation Envoyé par Widoch Voir le message
    So you're saying that a person who puts more time and effort into the game should not be able to achieve items gained by those with less effort? 1 hour a week can get you first age gear if you're in a static raid group. Pretty lazy if you don't allow the person who spends 10 hours a week grinding to get the same stuff.

    But the original point was, if they ever do create difficult enough content where 1st age items are nearly a requirement, Turbine must provide a way for players who simply cannot join static raids to be able to participate. Why on earth would you reward someone who gets on twice a week for an hour to run a raid and log off more than someone who is willing to grind out extra hours for a reward?
    Good job bringing up "effort" right before equating (at least reward-wise) 10 hours of solo-content "grinding" to completing a T2 raid challenge.

    If you could elaborate a bit further on how much effort this grinding should involve, maybe I could take you seriously...
    [COLOR="#40E0D0"]Turbine does not give out rewards based on the profit factor; because rewards must be earned by completing content.[/COLOR]

  20. #20
    Date d'inscription
    février 2007
    Messages
    172
    Citation Envoyé par Dantrag28 Voir le message
    Once the game is balanced and difficulty is no longer laughable and first age items are reintroduced, I feel it would add a certain uniqueness to your character if first age items randomly dropped at the end of raids. Instead of buying them from skirmish vendors.
    Actually I'm talking about not using elder king symbols at all, I think it would be better if the weapon itself dropped at the end of the raid.

  21. #21
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2010
    Localisation
    California
    Messages
    465
    Citation Envoyé par jadacakai Voir le message
    PS I live in Australia, so i feel your time zone pain!
    As do I - the US west coast may as well be Asia or Australia, for all the groups we see...

    Though on the overall topic of 1st agers, my reaction to the news that they're "on the bubble" for inclusion in U13 was /facepalm. Just seems insane to me that they'd be made available before the current balance problems are addressed.

    Regarding the claim by several people in this thread that in the past 1st agers have been "available to everyone", that shows a complete ignorance of what this game is like outside of peak time zones. They may have been available to everyone who plays at Eastern prime time (or European prime time on EU servers); 1st agers have never been available at all to anyone else. Nobody I know was able to buy a level 85 1st ager with seals - the only person who had a 1st ager got lucky with a lootbox. To put this quantitatively, the time needed to accumulate the seals for one 85 1st ager last year, joining every available group, would have been 14 months on Arkenstone, or 6 months on Vilya. And that assumes that a character could find a group for each of the three Erebor raids, which was very much not a given. Level 85 1st agers were every bit as unavailable as they were at 75 or 65, every bit as unavailable as ToO armor at 75 (which I remember people on the forums claiming was also "available to everyone", so this ignorance of off-peak time zones has a long history to it...), and so forth.

    I don't have strong feelings on the normative question, aside from the seemingly obvious "don't give us even stronger weapons when we're already absurdly overpowered!" that Turbine apparently is ignoring. It would be nice to have a 1st ager someday just for the novelty (shiny!), on the other hand I've done just fine with 2nd agers all these years and can't imagine Turbine producing content hard enough for 1st agers to make a difference anymore. And long experience shows that I'd never get to see such content even if it did exist, so /shrug, whatever, don't really care that much.

  22. #22
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2011
    Messages
    1 118
    Citation Envoyé par Ithrien Voir le message
    words...
    Example:

    Back in Draigoch end game days, a kin might have a static Thursday raid group. They log in for about an hour (maybe two if they're not organized well) run the raid and then log off. They end up working maybe 1 - 2 hours a week for their first age gear.

    In a secondary system rather than the first age symbols dropping only from raids, later on they created a seal/deed barter system. It required hours of grinding instances, upwards to 30 - 40 or more hours of game play to get enough seals for a 1st age symbol. This also included running instances in pugs which is undeniably more difficult than running with an organized group.

    So, let's say you're in a static group that, like my kin, shares rewards as equally as possible. The same 12 people should be able to get at least 1 symbol for each person in the group in a maximum of 24 game hours, but in reality it'll be more like 10 - 12 hours because multiple symbols would drop in most of the raid challenges. Additionally, the seals from the raid would allow those people to get their first age symbol earlier via barter/deed system.

    The player who cannot consistently be part of a static raid group (we aren't talking about solo players, those were your words, not mine) are able to use skraids, pugs, and in old days 6 man T2C content to obtain their symbols via barter but it would take 30 - 40 hours of game play to do it.

    So, dedicated raiders get their symbols in half to less than half the time of the person who cannot raid as regularly. 12 - 24 hours vs 30 - 40 hours. It's pretty easy to understand that raiders will have the benefit. In the end though, the raiders get to strut around showing off fancy weapons that they got in less than 12 hours of gameplay but non raiders still get to have gear that allows them to participate when they are able, but it takes them 30+ hours to get it.


    This is not about solo vs. raiders. This is about reality, time, location and life.



    Actually I'm talking about not using elder king symbols at all, I think it would be better if the weapon itself dropped at the end of the raid.
    This is something else entirely which is an interesting idea. I think there would be a bit of an issue with the type of weapon though. Can you imagine being a dwarf guardian, waiting for your 1st ager to drop for weeks and when it finally does it's a 2h sword? I would imagine most dwarf guardians are looking for a 1h axe or something similar. The symbols let you make exactly what you want.
    Dernière modification par Widoch ; 10/03/2014 à 22h36.
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    [/CENTER]

  23. #23
    Date d'inscription
    février 2007
    Messages
    172
    Citation Envoyé par Ithrien Voir le message
    Good job bringing up "effort" right before equating (at least reward-wise) 10 hours of solo-content "grinding" to completing a T2 raid challenge.

    If you could elaborate a bit further on how much effort this grinding should involve, maybe I could take you seriously...
    I agree, active players who participate in raids should be rewarded with premium gear not available to the single player content. Your putting up with everyone's afks, not knowing what to do, wipes, recruiting, and all the other things that go along with raiding. The single player content provides sufficient gear for people who like single player content and I don't see why they feel the need to concern themselves with what drops from raids.

  24. #24
    Date d'inscription
    février 2007
    Messages
    172
    Citation Envoyé par Widoch Voir le message
    Example:







    This is something else entirely which is an interesting idea. I think there would be a bit of an issue with the type of weapon though. Can you imagine being a dwarf guardian, waiting for your 1st ager to drop for weeks and when it finally does it's a 2h sword? I would imagine most dwarf guardians are looking for a 1h axe or something similar. The symbols let you make exactly what you want.
    Then you put that item in AH and sell it for what ever the going rate of a FA item is and purchase the one you need that somebody else is selling. Of course your going to get skunked every now and then but that's what makes it interesting.

  25. #25
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2011
    Messages
    1 118
    Citation Envoyé par Dantrag28 Voir le message
    Then you put that item in AH and sell it for what ever the going rate of a FA item is and purchase the one you need that somebody else is selling. Of course your going to get skunked every now and then but that's what makes it interesting.
    Assuming the one you want isn't the same one everyone else wants (1h sward, 1h ax, 2h sword & bow). I doubt you'd see a lot of those on the AH and if they were the value would be much higher than the unwanted one you're selling. On my server a 2nd age bow sells for a lot more than a 2nd age cross bow.
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq358/drschplatt/sig-lotro95.jpg[/IMG]
    [URL="http://www.osf.guildlaunch.com"]The Order of The Silver Flame[/URL] - A fun, mature, helpful and friendly kin. Come join us on Silverlode!
    [/CENTER]

 

 
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