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  1. #1
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    85

    Will turbine ever answer?

    Hello everyone.
    Can start with, if there have been some answers from the devs about this, I must've missed it. please link it to me.

    So I'm pretty sure lotros community have won several awards for being the best mmo-community?
    Ok, I wish the devs were more grateful for that. That there were better connections between us. Because I feel lost right now. And I feel that the higher ups does not really care about what we players want.


    I want to know why you have changed the direction of the game, for going all in for casuals only.
    When you introduced RIFT-raid back in SoA. You put a new standard for LoTRO's Endgame. That standard did you keep through MoM, SoM and pre RoI.
    When RoI released, we had to wait several months before a new endgame content was released. Before it, we could only play old ones.
    When RoR released, it was even worse. The difficulty were not even, difficult. We had again to do old raids/skirmishes/instances untill later update. And what we got was not close to the same quality as previoua endgame content.
    When HD released, well. I didn't even bought it. Because the warnings have been coming since RoI about less efforts is going for those who wants content like this.
    And RoR kinda confirmed this, but now when the next update got nothing for those who seeks this. You confirmed it as well.

    So as a player, that have been playing since release. I wish you could either put a reply here.
    Or an open letter for everyone about the future of lotro, why the changes, why ignoring the players who seeks more difficult content, why going in more for repetive stuffs etc.
    Because I am ready to put LoTRO aside, but I want things cleared up before that.
    I think we(Pretty sure there's other who feel the same way), as loyal players, deserve that.

    =)

  2. #2
    Sapience est déconnecté Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
    Date d'inscription
    août 2008
    Messages
    9 518
    I didn't see any actual questions, just some statements on subjects we've answered many times, and recently in some cases.

    If you want to see answer to various questions here are some places to start:

    The Dev tracker. At the top of every page of the forums is a link. Currently there are over 400 pages of links to replies by the dev team.
    https://www.lotro.com/en/forums/post...ker=devtracker

    The ask the LOTRO team archive. There are 100s of answers in a number of threads there. All questions asked by players and answered by us. Including a lot of what I think you're looking for. We'll probably be doing another one of these in the coming weeks.
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/forumdi...O-Team-Archive

    There are more than 300 answers listed in the fantastic transcript thread that FrickinMuck maintains after each live stream. She takes all the questions asked and answers and posts them for everyone to read. In fact she does such a great job, I've moved her thread to the ask LOTRO Team Archive. The only player created thread in that section.
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-what-was-said

    If you were looking for a "what's coming up" answer, you can read Aaron Campbell's producer's letter. He breaks down Update 13 and some other thoughts. He's added some additional thoughts and comments based on player questions throughout this thread. He'll also be back once Update 13 releases to share more of his plans and thoughts in another letter.
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...Aaron-Campbell


    Finally, you can always join our live stream (we're trying to make sure we have at least 2 per week) and ask questions. All I ask if you try to ask something new, not something we've answered multiple times before in one of the previous streams or in any of the other places I linked). You can join it here: http://www.twitch.tv/lotrostream

  3. #3
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2011
    Messages
    199
    Not trying to be argumentative but your post puts out a negative tone from the start. You bring up good points but if I was a Dev, because of the tone I'd probably ignore it.

    You do know there has been management changes at Turbine, that alone changes the direction of development

    Lastly, why would they announce what is coming out giving their competition insight and time to develop their counter to what may take business away from them? I host a game server here in my home (Never Winter Knights) and wrote most of the content. I got allot of "offers" to help write code to "help lag". Instead of asking me for the script that did "X" in the game so they could look at it, they all wanted me to send the entire program. HELL NO, that includes code I wrote doing unique things no one else was doing with the game drawing people to my server. When I tell them I will not release all the code but if you want to work on a certain area, no problem, let me know what you want to do and I'll send it to you. I never heard from them again. Obviously someone that just wanted to copy my stuff and put it in their server.

    So I don't blame Turbine for keeping tight lipped on their future plans. Yea it would be nice to know so I can prepare my toons stats, weapons and what not, but if this is how Turbine wants to protect their product, that's up to them.

    /edit: sorry Sapience, I was typing this up I guess while you responded.

  4. #4
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    85
    Thank you. I will read all the links and see if I can find the answers I were looking for.
    Maybe it was hard to see the big question, and maybe it is answered. And yes maybe a bit negative because I was frustrated when I had problems on starting new thread. That affected the post a bit.


    Anyways, the qestion in short if it isn't answered:

    ''Why have LOTRO taken the change of not having a more difficult gameplay/endgame content anymore?'' Leaving many players that enjoyed it the most, in the shadows.
    And will there ever be any more of this in LoTRO's future? I know many kins that only focus on raiding. They will probably dissapear and move on. I mean, lots of friends..

  5. #5
    Sapience est déconnecté Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
    Date d'inscription
    août 2008
    Messages
    9 518
    Citation Envoyé par TexN Voir le message
    Thank you. I will read all the links and see if I can find the answers I were looking for.
    Maybe it was hard to see the big question, and maybe it is answered. And yes maybe a bit negative because I was frustrated when I had problems on starting new thread. That affected the post a bit.


    Anyways, the qestion in short if it isn't answered:

    ''Why have LOTRO taken the change of not having a more difficult gameplay/endgame content anymore?'' Leaving many players that enjoyed it the most, in the shadows.
    And will there ever be any more of this in LoTRO's future? I know many kins that only focus on raiding. They will probably dissapear and move on. I mean, lots of friends..

    It has been answered before, and in fact Rowan addressed it just yesterday (in terms of what's in the future).

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...24#post7114124

  6. #6
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2007
    Localisation
    Long Cleeve, Unspecified Farthing
    Messages
    359
    Citation Envoyé par Sapience Voir le message
    It has been answered before, and in fact Rowan addressed it just yesterday (in terms of what's in the future).

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...24#post7114124
    That seems to me to be answering the question "What is turbine considering as possible additions for group content in the future?". However, the OP, it seems to me, has primarily asked (both times) "Why has lotro development abandoned the inclusion of challenging new group endgame content?" And I'll hazard a guess to say the OP means "traditional lotro instance raids".

    I do follow those information sources myself, and its a lot of information to look through, and sometimes I miss things. Perhaps the Why has been answered before. Even if so, it would be nice to have a direct answer from turbine again here, if you please.

    Thank you!
    Dernière modification par Moochi ; 05/03/2014 à 14h17. Motif: typos and clarification
    [FONT=Verdana][CENTER][COLOR=#666666]Silverlode lvl100 raiding characters: [/COLOR][COLOR=#FF0000]Glaistig [COLOR=#FFFF00]Skop[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=#666666] | lvl100 solo and small group characters: Bede, Elentir, & Wibba[/COLOR][/CENTER]
    [/FONT]
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu6/sierraechotango/LOTRO/Sigwwwdjelledk003_zps89225b3e.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][COLOR=#666666][COLOR="#FFA500"]Moochinbras [/COLOR]- former expert treasure-hunter of Silverlode, now enjoying retirement on Landroval [/COLOR][/CENTER]

  7. #7
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2011
    Messages
    230
    Citation Envoyé par Sapience Voir le message
    I didn't see any actual questions, just some statements on subjects we've answered many times, and recently in some cases.
    Citation Envoyé par TexN Voir le message
    Or an open letter for everyone about the future of lotro, why the changes, why ignoring the players who seeks more difficult content, why going in more for repetive stuffs etc.
    Ok, they are loaded questions, but still technically questions!

    Anyway, while the team is certainly putting a lot of time and effort communicating with fans, I think this poster makes the case for more organization.

    As has been pointed out, there are already letters from the execs on the future of the game. When somebody wonders "what's going on with LOTRO these days?" the producers' letters (which answers exactly that!) should be easy to find / impossible to miss. 400 pages of links and 100s of answers are nice for the people who want to get really in depth, but to a returning or prospective player that wants general info, there's a risk of them missing that when faced with hours and hours of dev posts to read on every topic under the sun.

  8. #8
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2011
    Messages
    228
    Citation Envoyé par TexN Voir le message
    Hello everyone.
    Can start with, if there have been some answers from the devs about this, I must've missed it. please link it to me.

    So I'm pretty sure lotros community have won several awards for being the best mmo-community?
    Ok, I wish the devs were more grateful for that. That there were better connections between us. Because I feel lost right now. And I feel that the higher ups does not really care about what we players want.


    I want to know why you have changed the direction of the game, for going all in for casuals only.
    When you introduced RIFT-raid back in SoA. You put a new standard for LoTRO's Endgame. That standard did you keep through MoM, SoM and pre RoI.
    When RoI released, we had to wait several months before a new endgame content was released. Before it, we could only play old ones.
    When RoR released, it was even worse. The difficulty were not even, difficult. We had again to do old raids/skirmishes/instances untill later update. And what we got was not close to the same quality as previoua endgame content.
    When HD released, well. I didn't even bought it. Because the warnings have been coming since RoI about less efforts is going for those who wants content like this.
    And RoR kinda confirmed this, but now when the next update got nothing for those who seeks this. You confirmed it as well.

    So as a player, that have been playing since release. I wish you could either put a reply here.
    Or an open letter for everyone about the future of lotro, why the changes, why ignoring the players who seeks more difficult content, why going in more for repetive stuffs etc.
    Because I am ready to put LoTRO aside, but I want things cleared up before that.
    I think we(Pretty sure there's other who feel the same way), as loyal players, deserve that.

    =)
    Look m8 i totally get what your saying, i want more end-game content....but the powers-that-be have decided to not release anything new. Regardless of the huge numbers of people saying they disagree....they arent listening. Despite people threatening to leave....they aren't listening

    Citation Envoyé par Rowan Voir le message
    In terms of schedule, this next year will look much more like the year after Shadows of Angmar launched. Regular updates to the game while we grow the world, with occasional updates to systems. I know looking back to SoA is a loaded term for many players - it's my best approximation.



    We'll consider new group content where we can fit it in, but the team's priority is definitely moving the story and growing the world. Update 13 is the close of Volume 3 of the Epic, meaning yes... Volume 4 is on the way.
    This basically sums their attitude up. Maybe when enough people leave because they are bored of repeating faceroll content in solo-mode, they MAY...and i say MAY start to listen, but by then i believe it will be too late. Why the hell they cant cater for everyone in this game is beyond me....solo content for casuals and group content for groupies....every other mmorpg i play does.

    I wont be starting my sub again any-time soon, im buying quest packs etc with tp earned.

    Update 13 closing vol 3 of the epic - yeah awesome, but once again content aimed at solo players....once again players who like to group getting short changed.

    I've actually gave up hope of turbine sorting things anytime soon, and tbh im only here until next month when teso comes. Ill check back every now and then for updates and to see if anything new comes out, if not i wont be paying another penny to turbine.

  9. #9
    Date d'inscription
    novembre 2010
    Messages
    783
    Lots of people that enjoy certain 'looked over' aspects of LOTRO will ask 'WHY aren't we catered for...?'

    Trouble is, in my opinion, this is almost an impossible question for Turbine to answer adequately enough, if at all, for that demographic to accept. Trust me - I'm one of those that would like to know why there are no instance clusters or raids at least even mentioned as being 'in development', as opposed to loosely quoted from Rowan 'When we can fit them in'. Or why an MMO that has previously dished out expansions and regions that had something for everyone, seems to be leaning more towards simply story telling, solo play and, IMO, more 'simplistic' group content (IE Epic Battles, that dont compare to T2C instances, in terms of difficulty, quality of gear needed to equip to succeed, progression etc etc)

    Why are these questions difficult for Turbine to answer?

    Well, from where I sit as a LOTRO player and from how things get handled by Turbine I would GUESS - and that's important to highlight - GUESS - that a lot of the time, Turbine's hands are tied by WB, or even internally. MMO's is a competition rich environment, a company that lays its future plans out too openly, even as a gesture to their player-base, will equally be letting competitors know what's going on too. So do they answer the questions, or stay silent? And which of the two is worse?

    My suggestion would be if you feel you aren't being catered for, and what Turbine tells you is coming, then maybe take a break, or just try to take things LESS seriously. I've done exactly that lately. And I feel better for it!

    If Turbine could release a massive expac with tons of classic instances, raids, 10 new Epic Battles, 3 new classes, a new PvMP map, instanced PvMP 'matches' a la capture the flag etc etc, they probably would.... and I have a feeling that we would like it mostly if they did!

    Trouble is as the customer, we won't get told what's on the far horizon - see above, if they do, they've blown cover for competitors to exploit, and if they stay hush, we all assume the worse. It's not a great place to be admittedly, but that's the games industry!

    Take what we have, the roadmap for this year, and see where it heads.... without sounding too much like a hippy, the future will provide all the answers to your questions.

  10. #10
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    67
    Citation Envoyé par Sapience Voir le message
    I didn't see any actual questions, just some statements on subjects we've answered many times, and recently in some cases.

    If you want to see answer to various questions here are some places to start:

    The Dev tracker. At the top of every page of the forums is a link. Currently there are over 400 pages of links to replies by the dev team.
    https://www.lotro.com/en/forums/post...ker=devtracker

    The ask the LOTRO team archive. There are 100s of answers in a number of threads there. All questions asked by players and answered by us. Including a lot of what I think you're looking for. We'll probably be doing another one of these in the coming weeks.
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/forumdi...O-Team-Archive

    There are more than 300 answers listed in the fantastic transcript thread that FrickinMuck maintains after each live stream. She takes all the questions asked and answers and posts them for everyone to read. In fact she does such a great job, I've moved her thread to the ask LOTRO Team Archive. The only player created thread in that section.
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-what-was-said

    If you were looking for a "what's coming up" answer, you can read Aaron Campbell's producer's letter. He breaks down Update 13 and some other thoughts. He's added some additional thoughts and comments based on player questions throughout this thread. He'll also be back once Update 13 releases to share more of his plans and thoughts in another letter.
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...Aaron-Campbell


    Finally, you can always join our live stream (we're trying to make sure we have at least 2 per week) and ask questions. All I ask if you try to ask something new, not something we've answered multiple times before in one of the previous streams or in any of the other places I linked). You can join it here: http://www.twitch.tv/lotrostream

    Look again, he wonder why you have changed the direction of the game for casuals only. And why you have stoped produce endgame Group content. Yes please, just make a statement if we will have more of raids/6mans/3mans in the future. These are the most asked questions, we know That we wont see any new raids this year. But you have not said if we will have any more 6man/3man dungeons. Or if we will ever see raids/Group instances again. So please anwaser that.

  11. #11
    Date d'inscription
    août 2007
    Messages
    1 048
    Citation Envoyé par yafga Voir le message
    Look again, he wonder why you have changed the direction of the game for casuals only. And why you have stoped produce endgame Group content. Yes please, just make a statement if we will have more of raids/6mans/3mans in the future. These are the most asked questions, we know That we wont see any new raids this year. But you have not said if we will have any more 6man/3man dungeons. Or if we will ever see raids/Group instances again. So please anwaser that.
    You won't see that answer simply because no one can say if there will "ever" be any. Forever is a long time. No one can predict the future. People think the devs say things like "no raids planned for this year" because they are trying to be sneaky and only give a half answer so they can keep you on the hook wondering about next year... when in reality they are answering that was to simply give you the answer you want without making a commitment around "ever". Things can always change.

    There are no raids planned for now. That is your answer. No one is ready to say if there ever will be again. That is the best answer you are going to get right now. Hate it or like it, it is what it is.
    [center][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c00000005c4d1/01006/signature.png]Jeanna[/charsig][/center]

  12. #12
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2010
    Messages
    110
    Ever thought of buying Time Warner shares?

    Buy some and try attending their AGM's and question them on the direction LOTRO is going.

    May even be able to make suggestions.

    Lol.

  13. #13
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2007
    Localisation
    Long Cleeve, Unspecified Farthing
    Messages
    359
    Citation Envoyé par yafga Voir le message
    Look again, he wonder why you have changed the direction of the game for casuals only. And why you have stoped produce endgame Group content. Yes please, just make a statement if we will have more of raids/6mans/3mans in the future. These are the most asked questions, we know That we wont see any new raids this year. But you have not said if we will have any more 6man/3man dungeons. Or if we will ever see raids/Group instances again. So please anwaser that.
    It seems that you are also trying to change the why question into a what/if/when question. That is not what the OP was asking. We have had (some) responses to the whats... I'd like to stick to trying to get answers from Turbine to the whys in this thread. I suspect a clear answer to the whys might also give more significant insight to the what/if/when answers than we're likely to get in direct answers.

    The why answer is past tense. They know the answer, they just have to decide whether or not they'll answer it.
    The what/if/when is harder for them to answer. For obviously reasons, it would be unwise of them to commit to a plan they're not sure they can execute. I have no doubt they'd love to make the best possible Middle-earth MMO they can; one that would please everyone. But its hard to do that and make a tidy profit, without more players than the game currently has. If I was in their place, I'd be very hesitant to give details on the whats/ifs/whens of the future until I felt really really confident that I'd hit those targets, and even they I'd be saying "the current plan is to do X" for a while.
    Answering why past decisions were decided the way they were, conversely, is just a choice they get to make about how transparent they can be. And sometimes they cannot be as transparent as they'd like, unfortunately. I'm just hoping this isn't one of those times
    Dernière modification par Moochi ; 06/03/2014 à 07h22.
    [FONT=Verdana][CENTER][COLOR=#666666]Silverlode lvl100 raiding characters: [/COLOR][COLOR=#FF0000]Glaistig [COLOR=#FFFF00]Skop[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=#666666] | lvl100 solo and small group characters: Bede, Elentir, & Wibba[/COLOR][/CENTER]
    [/FONT]
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu6/sierraechotango/LOTRO/Sigwwwdjelledk003_zps89225b3e.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][COLOR=#666666][COLOR="#FFA500"]Moochinbras [/COLOR]- former expert treasure-hunter of Silverlode, now enjoying retirement on Landroval [/COLOR][/CENTER]

  14. #14
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Messages
    42
    What we need in LotRO at this moment is BALANCE!!

    With this state of game,OP chars,weak mobs,if they release 5 multiboss raids and 10 6mans it would still be worthless cause they would all prob be faceroll like everything is,and after everyone would finish them (i suppose it wouldnt take much time with current setup) it would all be as it is now.

    AFTER that balance,we can talk about other things that are welcomed,such ofc endgame raids/instances...then we can discuss loot distribution and other things,but i would summ it like this

    1. Balance
    2. Content
    3. Tweaks to loot (more 'fair' distribution to put it that way)

    Ofc im talking from a player that is leaning towards endgame experience mostly perspective, for those that are 90% solo/rp/story priorities are different and i understand that.

  15. #15
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2007
    Localisation
    Green part of a blue-red state
    Messages
    4 178
    Citation Envoyé par Ahearn Voir le message
    What we need in LotRO at this moment is BALANCE!!

    With this state of game,OP chars,weak mobs,if they release 5 multiboss raids and 10 6mans it would still be worthless cause they would all prob be faceroll like everything is,and after everyone would finish them (i suppose it wouldnt take much time with current setup) it would all be as it is now.

    AFTER that balance,we can talk about other things that are welcomed,such ofc endgame raids/instances...then we can discuss loot distribution and other things,but i would summ it like this

    1. Balance
    2. Content
    3. Tweaks to loot (more 'fair' distribution to put it that way)

    Ofc im talking from a player that is leaning towards endgame experience mostly perspective, for those that are 90% solo/rp/story priorities are different and i understand that.
    For the record, beginning game is also unbalanced at the moment. (Have a slew (9) of neweys levels 18-35)
    Kinships: Fifth Star Vagabonds on Crickhollow (Dotswith); Random Access on Arkenstone (Dottiel)

  16. #16
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2007
    Messages
    235
    I've not really played seriously since Mirkwood was released. I loved the raids there and found things challenging. I loved when Moria came out as it heralded the greatest group content since the Rift and I found my footing as a healer repeating all of the dungeons back in the day when you had to do a particular dungeon to get a specific piece of gear.

    After Mirkwood, for me the endgame content went downhill. Add to that the revamp and then revamp again of the minstrel and I just don't play anymore. I pop in now and again to make sure my house is paid up but there's nothing here for me to do and I stopped leveling at 83. Didn't even buy HD and I've bought every expansion prior to that.

    So I'm in accord with the OP. Endgame content has diminished and for me it's not the number of dungeons and raids as much as it's the endless, feckless use of grinding for gear content. Give us fewer expansions with better quality. Go back to Moria and take a look at what was offered in that expansion and then look at what is offered from Mirkwood on. There is a profound difference.

    I miss LOTRO until I spend a half an hour in it and then I realize why I don't really play it anymore. Sad.
    Aquilegia Astor Minstrel and Healer at Large Landroval Server
    Proud Founding Member of H.O.M.E.

  17. #17
    Date d'inscription
    avril 2007
    Messages
    4 278
    Citation Envoyé par yafga Voir le message
    Look again, he wonder why you have changed the direction of the game for casuals only. And why you have stoped produce endgame Group content. Yes please, just make a statement if we will have more of raids/6mans/3mans in the future. These are the most asked questions, we know That we wont see any new raids this year. But you have not said if we will have any more 6man/3man dungeons. Or if we will ever see raids/Group instances again. So please anwaser that.
    Citation Envoyé par CmdrMagic Voir le message
    You won't see that answer simply because no one can say if there will "ever" be any. Forever is a long time. No one can predict the future. People think the devs say things like "no raids planned for this year" because they are trying to be sneaky and only give a half answer so they can keep you on the hook wondering about next year... when in reality they are answering that was to simply give you the answer you want without making a commitment around "ever". Things can always change.

    There are no raids planned for now. That is your answer. No one is ready to say if there ever will be again. That is the best answer you are going to get right now. Hate it or like it, it is what it is.
    As said, the answer to the raid question is fixed: 365 days of no new raids. You can hope, wish, plead, cry and stamp your feet but the only "reality" you are going to get is: 365 days.

    Do not look to tomorrow or the next day or the next month or the next year. Today is all there is, there is nothing else.

    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them.

    Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  18. #18
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2008
    Localisation
    Pacific Northwest
    Messages
    4 334
    Citation Envoyé par SabrielofLorien Voir le message
    As said, the answer to the raid question is fixed: 365 days of no new raids. You can hope, wish, plead, cry and stamp your feet but the only "reality" you are going to get is: 365 days.

    Do not look to tomorrow or the next day or the next month or the next year. Today is all there is, there is nothing else.
    Nobody is expecting a raid in 2014 that I know of. The point they are making is we need to know if there is one planned for the future. It's going to make a difference to a lot of people whether or not they keep hanging on. Nobody is hoping, pleading, wishing, crying or stamping - but we are waiting and asking.

    And I choose to look to the future. Today is fleeting and I believe in the ability to turn this game around and make it enjoyable for all again if content is in the works for the future that appeals to all. Big Battles weren't it by a long shot. I will continue to ask what is planned and when we will get raid/instance content. I will also ask for some dev interaction in the minstrel forum, which for the past 6 months seems to even less likely than new raid or instance content.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    GLADDEN SERVER
    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  19. #19
    Date d'inscription
    avril 2007
    Messages
    4 278
    Citation Envoyé par Beaniemooch Voir le message
    Nobody is expecting a raid in 2014 that I know of. The point they are making is we need to know if there is one planned for the future. It's going to make a difference to a lot of people whether or not they keep hanging on. Nobody is hoping, pleading, wishing, crying or stamping - but we are waiting and asking.

    And I choose to look to the future. Today is fleeting and I believe in the ability to turn this game around and make it enjoyable for all again if content is in the works for the future that appeals to all. Big Battles weren't it by a long shot. I will continue to ask what is planned and when we will get raid/instance content. I will also ask for some dev interaction in the minstrel forum, which for the past 6 months seems to even less likely than new raid or instance content.
    You can look at the tea leaves for the same answer: You have the only one there is.

    If you are planning activities in the game 2 years out that's a rather a long view. You have the answer and it's just an answer you are not happy with. Humans do not like uncertainty, so it's understandable that people would want "certainty". What you have is the "certainty" of nothing for 365 days.

    If they open another round of questions I suggest you propose one (or more); think about what it is you want to know carefully and write accordingly.


    In the mean time this is the place to look:
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/forumdi...O-Team-Archive
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  20. #20
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2007
    Messages
    35 533
    Citation Envoyé par Beaniemooch Voir le message
    Nobody is expecting a raid in 2014 that I know of. The point they are making is we need to know if there is one planned for the future. It's going to make a difference to a lot of people whether or not they keep hanging on. Nobody is hoping, pleading, wishing, crying or stamping - but we are waiting and asking.
    Turbine is going to want to get the results from 2014 such as what content elements are completed, what work remains, revenue and expenses. The 2015 plans will be made in last quarter of 2014.

    I've worked in software development for many years. Every company I've worked for uses a one year plan for products that are live deployed like Lotro. It is very difficult to predict the future revenue stream which funds the size of the support team and the amount of modified, updated and new features delivered.

    The five year organization plan which is very inaccurate for years 4-5 is used to determine things like leases on equipment like servers and buildings. New product development which often takes 2-3 years. Cover things like live launch for a product, end-of-feature support, end of sales, end of all support, product shut down or transition between these states.

    What you do not want to do is issue a 2013-2014 plan at the end of 2012. Decide that the 2013 revenue does not support your current staffing levels which are required to do the 2014 work. You do a staff reduction in January, 2014. Have to issue a revised lower new feature map for 2014 in February, 2014. To get around this problem, you wait until end of third quarter. You plan how many people and what features you can afford for 2014. Adjust the staff levels downward - hopefully after Christmas so as not to ruin the employees holiday season. Issue the 2014 map.

    Often times smart employees at a company will see the 2014 map near the end of the 2013. Realize we got too many people. Time to update the resume.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  21. #21
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2008
    Localisation
    Pacific Northwest
    Messages
    4 334
    When they have previously stated a raid/instance cluster takes 12-18 months to create I think it's a fair question. Is there one planned, because if there is they need significant lead time. If they don't even start looking at it for another year then we're waiting at least 2-3 years for a raid/instance cluster. We only have 3 years on the current license. If I don't ask now when exactly am I supposed to?
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    GLADDEN SERVER
    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  22. #22
    Date d'inscription
    avril 2007
    Messages
    4 278
    Citation Envoyé par Beaniemooch Voir le message
    When they have previously stated a raid/instance cluster takes 12-18 months to create I think it's a fair question. Is there one planned, because if there is they need significant lead time. If they don't even start looking at it for another year then we're waiting at least 2-3 years for a raid/instance cluster. We only have 3 years on the current license. If I don't ask now when exactly am I supposed to?
    It's not that you cannot ask, it's that there is only one answer that is Official. It's the only one that counts.

    afaik The timeline to create one is what you have said. It's also been said that they are the MOST expensive item they can develop. They have also indicated that like PVMP, raids are done by a tiny minority of the player base. Very tiny. It may be that you and friends and folks you know run raids but the overall percentage of the player base that run them is not big enough to make a pile on your living room floor.

    When you look at one indicator be sure to look at the others that impact it.
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  23. #23
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2010
    Messages
    374
    Citation Envoyé par SabrielofLorien Voir le message
    It's not that you cannot ask, it's that there is only one answer that is Official. It's the only one that counts.

    afaik The timeline to create one is what you have said. It's also been said that they are the MOST expensive item they can develop. They have also indicated that like PVMP, raids are done by a tiny minority of the player base. Very tiny. It may be that you and friends and folks you know run raids but the overall percentage of the player base that run them is not big enough to make a pile on your living room floor.

    When you look at one indicator be sure to look at the others that impact it.
    Lol at people still chucking around "minority".

    Yep.

    A minority of the people get a character to level cap.

    A minority of the people pay any money.

    What does any of that mean to us as players? Nothing... so why do we CONSISTENTLY have players throwing the word "minority" ("very tiny") around to try and use that as some sort of reason for MMO gamers here in LOTRO to "get over" the prospect of instances and raids?

    "1-9%" of the playerbase play PvMP and raids, huh?

    Since you have to be level-capped (or close) to even play in PvMP as a freep, wouldn't that already give you enough "maths" to reason out that it is CLEARLY more than 1-9% of the LEVEL-CAPPED "playerbase" (the ONLY ones applicable on Freep side) that participate in PvmP?
    A MINORITY of players get to level cap in the first place, to even be considered in this "playerbase" assessment. Not to mention that you have to be VIP, and a TINY MINORITY of players are VIP. As for creeps, you either need to buy a class (apart from reaver) or PAY VIP (again, minority of players do either).

    Doesn't that at least spark curiousity in regards to how much of the game's population AT LEVEL CAP participate(d) in level-cap instances and raids and PvmP? Considering the fact that those LEVEL CAPPED freeps are the only ones who are even ABLE to PVMP. Its similar to how OF COURSE instances at level cap are ran by a relatively teensy part of the playerbase - because the vast majority of the playerbase are not at level cap and never will be, nor will they spend a single penny on any single feature.

    And if we're only going to develop for the extreme majority, those who play infrequently, spend no money and never get to anywhere near level cap before leaving (wherever they go, it doesn't matter)... why even continue the land and the story? Even if the game is rushed out through to Mordor with nothing but landscape trash quests... what good have we accomplished, since the "majority of the playerbase" is never going to get there anyway.

    If the game is truly to be designed for the "majority" it needs to be even more streamlined.

    The "majority" of players, who don't stay to level cap and never pay a dime, are long gone before they'd even reach the parts of the game that MUST be purchased in order to continue playing (at the very least, HD is required to continue the Epics)... so who are we building the game for exactly? Players we never expect to even reach these 2014+ "world and story" additions?

    Yeahhhhhhh, that's gonna bring in the big bucks. I can smell it.

    Give the minority thing a rest already. Even the day that Sapience posted that, he was asked many many many times where he pulled that 1-9% figure from. Of course, no explanation was given, but any reasonably intelligent human being can reason out that it wasn't a "percentage of applicable playerbase", instead much much closer to "percentage of accounts/characters created".

    It was probably one of the worst posts Sapience has ever made on these forums. It has been used, ever since that day, as a "voice" of (another minority) certain players/posters who feel either the need to defend Turbine's choices or the need to silence other posters making even the tiniest notion of negative criticism/feedback/complaints/pleas in regards to lack of attention/love for group content (existing AND new)... something that they can always point back to and say "No, you don't get what you want because it isn't important to enough people. You're such a small minority, you can't even ASK - well, you can, but every time you do me and X other posters are going to try to silence you by telling you you're a minority, so why do you keep posting? Be silent and compliant or go play another game. LOTRO is fun."

    Well, how do you respond to the FACT that every single person who DOESN'T QUIT LOTRO after starting it, is a minority?

    Should we just stop development of the game altogether, since LOTRO hasn't killed WOW yet, or because the number of people who play LOTRO is a "tiny tiny minority" of Earth's population?

    I didn't think so.
    Dernière modification par Ithrien ; 09/03/2014 à 21h41.

  24. #24
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2008
    Localisation
    Pacific Northwest
    Messages
    4 334
    Citation Envoyé par SabrielofLorien Voir le message
    It's not that you cannot ask, it's that there is only one answer that is Official. It's the only one that counts.

    afaik The timeline to create one is what you have said. It's also been said that they are the MOST expensive item they can develop. They have also indicated that like PVMP, raids are done by a tiny minority of the player base. Very tiny. It may be that you and friends and folks you know run raids but the overall percentage of the player base that run them is not big enough to make a pile on your living room floor.

    When you look at one indicator be sure to look at the others that impact it.
    So basically what I want isn't important and I should just stop asking. I get it, I give up, you win.

    I gave up earlier today (yesterday?) on trying to get attention for minstrels because a) Sapience says to go to the minstrel forum to ask questions where b) devs aren't require to post to answer our questions which have been there for 6 months (including beta).

    I am not needed here. Message received loud and clear.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    GLADDEN SERVER
    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  25. #25
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2010
    Messages
    374
    Citation Envoyé par Beaniemooch Voir le message
    So basically what I want isn't important and I should just stop asking. I get it, I give up, you win.

    I gave up earlier today (yesterday?) on trying to get attention for minstrels because a) Sapience says to go to the minstrel forum to ask questions where b) devs aren't require to post to answer our questions which have been there for 6 months (including beta).

    I am not needed here. Message received loud and clear.
    You aren't alone Beanie.

    Deviled Egg doesn't have it out for Minstrels. She was just as silent and neglectful of the LM threads on Beta.

    I myself (and many others) have posted pages and pages and PAGES of reasons why there are imbalances between red/blue/yellow LM lines and how some aspects of certain lines offer too much, too little, etc.

    Biggest issue with classes was that multiple devs worked independently on their various classes. Nobody to "oversee" the balance between the traitlines/"roles"/classes.

    A "balance" (just speaking to classes, mind you) dev would take some CC away from Blue Burgs and Red/Blue LMs and give more CC to Yellow Burgs and LMs.

    A "balance" dev would give Yellow Minis Rally, and maybe give Yellow LMs an in-combat rez or at least a bit more healing.

    A "balance" dev would have stopped Yellow Champ from doing more ST DPS than Red champ.

    Or at least they would have been more likely to notice our screams of "This isn't good! This isn't working! This isn't 'specialization'!" than Silent Egg in our case, and the other various class devs in others.

 

 
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