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  1. #1051
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2009
    Messages
    898
    A companion piece to my guide on the Trait Trees. What Choice Do I Have? A deeper look at the Trait Trees

    It's really just me rambling on but someone might find it helpful I suppose.

  2. #1052
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2013
    Messages
    87
    It all sounds so very bad. Thank goodness I didn't order it! It just seems we aren't heroes anymore, we are the common rabble that someone else is suppose to protect us now. Very disappointing and sad to say the least. I hear that regular questing is now gated behind big battles too, We can only hope that this titantic fail will cause WB/Turbine to sell this to a competent gaming company with the foresight and resources to make it right again.
    Mean what you say and say what you mean! If you don't there are always consequences!

  3. #1053
    Date d'inscription
    août 2008
    Localisation
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Messages
    3 089
    Citation Envoyé par mr_toad Voir le message
    This is my personal theory: I don't mind the hunter changes as much as players of other classes because the hunter has never been a multi-purposed "super class" capable of things such as potent healing and damage at once. There are some people who will have a hard time (or will never) getting over the fact that their class may no longer be a "super class" any more. Welcome to the real world, sorry you had to come down to earth. Change is hard, but take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask yourself are you upset because of the change or upset because your class is no longer OP? There are complaints on this thread that the posters may think are devastating criticism but really confirm that the class system is becoming more balanced and working-as-intended.
    You must be a carpenter, because you just hit the nail on the head.

  4. #1054
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2012
    Messages
    106
    Citation Envoyé par frickinmuck Voir le message
    You must be a carpenter, because you just hit the nail on the head.
    Yup, it's always the customers fault they dis-like a product change, silly us.

  5. #1055
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2007
    Messages
    8 694
    Citation Envoyé par mr_toad Voir le message
    This is my personal theory: I don't mind the hunter changes as much as players of other classes because the hunter has never been a multi-purposed "super class" capable of things such as potent healing and damage at once.
    Hunter has always been one of the most super of classes. Easiest soloing by far, especially if they know how to use traps. There's a reason that it's the most popular class to play. I play all the classes, but since this game has started a small group of hunters have been complaining about how they're always being picked on by Turbine or that other classes are overpowered. And yet when some of them try alts on other classes they complain about how tedious they are.

  6. #1056
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2011
    Messages
    414
    Citation Envoyé par frickinmuck Voir le message
    You must be a carpenter, because you just hit the nail on the head.
    If you mean be supporting the people who only ever play their class one way and one way only then yes he has hit the nail, but shock horror there are people out there who like to do whatever their class can, they explore all it has to offer , experiment, test, improvise , they use their imagination and find new ways of playing their characters and they find that fun and engaging, but hey I suppose there will always be people who look at those players with a tinge of envy, and instead of trying to do those things themselves they campaign to have a level playing ground by having the classes gutted out and dumbed down, thats why every soloer out there fought tooth and nail for access to raid level gear,FAs dropping in T1 instances, RNG loot system so they could run around the landscape one shotting any random mob they see, or standing in the bree crafting hall in all the gold geared glory. Thats why we ended up with the nonsense that was Hytbold and Wildermore and the nonsense that is Big battles. And thats why we have ended up with these pathetic 4 button hollow classes we are on the verge of getting.

    Turbine have made the mistake of catering to people who whilst claiming to have the good of the game at heart are only really interested in the good of THEIR game and THEIR playstyle , sure they veil that with constant cheerleading at every decision they make so they come across as whiter than white and holier than thou, all that has succeeding in doing is driving away the players who actually really do care about the game as a whole, the players who understand that they sometimes have to put aside their wants and needs to allow others to have their's, those players understand that all playstyles need to be catered for to ensure the longevity of the game, and adopting a my way or the highway stance and blindly lobbying at every opportunity for the good of your self without any regard for the bigger picture and what other players are interested in spending their money on is a one way ticket to shutdown.

    Anyway you win, congratulations, you have everything you ever dreamed of, but remember you reap what you sow, and come March next year we will see what crop there is left.

  7. #1057
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    1 876
    Citation Envoyé par Andthelion Voir le message

    Anyway you win, congratulations, you have everything you ever dreamed of, but remember you reap what you sow, and come March next year we will see what crop there is left.
    I agree with all you said but the fight is long over. We've lost and it's time to move on without any more rancour. LOTRO is dead, LOTRO-LITE will be here soon and it'll succeed, crash and burn or limp along regardless of what we say now. Just treat it as your ftp game and find something better to play until TESO or the latest Everquest comes along.

  8. #1058
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2010
    Messages
    274
    Citation Envoyé par Lohi Voir le message
    Hunter has always been one of the most super of classes. Easiest soloing by far, especially if they know how to use traps. There's a reason that it's the most popular class to play. I play all the classes, but since this game has started a small group of hunters have been complaining about how they're always being picked on by Turbine or that other classes are overpowered. And yet when some of them try alts on other classes they complain about how tedious they are.
    There's a large portion of the hunter player-base that didn't want the class to be derp-pen shot spam. Instead now our entire rotation is derp-spam...but i guess that solves it.

    Most hunters' main issue was that a hunter min/maxed and played with a trait setup/rotation that was as efficient as possible, was still less desirable to bring to a raid than a burg, champ or RK. For a class with no other roles we should have been on the same level. Alas, I keep bringing this up like there will ever be a need to have such a rotation/trait set up going forward. No end game= no need to care.

    And wait are talking about easiest landscape soloing? Do people still die at the hands of landscape mobs outside of escorting Lalia?

  9. #1059
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2013
    Messages
    87
    Citation Envoyé par Thorwyn99 Voir le message
    Thanks! This thread was seriously lacking hyperbole for a while!

    I know it must be very hard on you with hardly anyone having the opinion you do but that's no reason to sabotage someone else's post. I don't remember quoting one of the hundreds of responses that you replied with and trying to tear you down, but I still don't see you as the enemy I'll save that for the people that are really doing harm to this once good game. You are just a cheerleader for your side where as I'm not or never could be a cheerleader for someone I see as ruining the game I play. Find someone else to pick on I'm much to big to be scared of someone who used the internet for these lame tactics.
    Mean what you say and say what you mean! If you don't there are always consequences!

  10. #1060
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2011
    Messages
    921
    Citation Envoyé par LaGere Voir le message
    I know it must be very hard on you with hardly anyone having the opinion you do but that's no reason to sabotage someone else's post. I don't remember quoting one of the hundreds of responses that you replied with and trying to tear you down, but I still don't see you as the enemy I'll save that for the people that are really doing harm to this once good game. You are just a cheerleader for your side where as I'm not or never could be a cheerleader for someone I see as ruining the game I play. Find someone else to pick on I'm much to big to be scared of someone who used the internet for these lame tactics.
    Don't worry about me i got my Vodka if i get too lonely and don't take it personally i was just bored and you had a nice hyperbole there(Yep Yep i love to use those too and Real Life Examples!). But really from what i gather you haven't tried the changes yourself yet and go on that rant from what other people said, don't you think you're in the end cheerleading too ?

    And for all it's worth i understand that people don't like the direction the game is going or the class changes, i simply don't share the opinion.
    Dernière modification par Thorwyn99 ; 12/11/2013 à 09h25.
    Nothing here matters.

  11. #1061
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2009
    Localisation
    St Louis Mo
    Messages
    1 999
    Citation Envoyé par Thorwyn99 Voir le message
    And for all it's worth i understand that people don't like the direction the game is going or the class changes, i simply don't share the opinion.
    You just want more people at Weatherstock next year. Which reminds me, which server is that again? If I will be creating an alt or so to test the changes, I may as well throw him on your server so I can maybe attend.

  12. #1062
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2011
    Messages
    921
    Citation Envoyé par Darlgon Voir le message
    You just want more people at Weatherstock next year. Which reminds me, which server is that again? If I will be creating an alt or so to test the changes, I may as well throw him on your server so I can maybe attend.
    Well of course can never have enough people for Weatherstock! That would be Landroval.
    Nothing here matters.

  13. #1063
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Glasgow
    Messages
    359

    Thumbs up

    Citation Envoyé par Andthelion Voir le message
    If you mean be supporting the people who only ever play their class one way and one way only then yes he has hit the nail, but shock horror there are people out there who like to do whatever their class can, they explore all it has to offer , experiment, test, improvise , they use their imagination and find new ways of playing their characters and they find that fun and engaging, but hey I suppose there will always be people who look at those players with a tinge of envy, and instead of trying to do those things themselves they campaign to have a level playing ground by having the classes gutted out and dumbed down, thats why every soloer out there fought tooth and nail for access to raid level gear,FAs dropping in T1 instances, RNG loot system so they could run around the landscape one shotting any random mob they see, or standing in the bree crafting hall in all the gold geared glory. Thats why we ended up with the nonsense that was Hytbold and Wildermore and the nonsense that is Big battles. And thats why we have ended up with these pathetic 4 button hollow classes we are on the verge of getting.

    Turbine have made the mistake of catering to people who whilst claiming to have the good of the game at heart are only really interested in the good of THEIR game and THEIR playstyle , sure they veil that with constant cheerleading at every decision they make so they come across as whiter than white and holier than thou, all that has succeeding in doing is driving away the players who actually really do care about the game as a whole, the players who understand that they sometimes have to put aside their wants and needs to allow others to have their's, those players understand that all playstyles need to be catered for to ensure the longevity of the game, and adopting a my way or the highway stance and blindly lobbying at every opportunity for the good of your self without any regard for the bigger picture and what other players are interested in spending their money on is a one way ticket to shutdown.

    Anyway you win, congratulations, you have everything you ever dreamed of, but remember you reap what you sow, and come March next year we will see what crop there is left.
    Well put !

  14. #1064
    Date d'inscription
    avril 2012
    Messages
    246
    Citation Envoyé par Lohi Voir le message
    Hunter has always been one of the most super of classes. Easiest soloing by far, especially if they know how to use traps. There's a reason that it's the most popular class to play. I play all the classes, but since this game has started a small group of hunters have been complaining about how they're always being picked on by Turbine or that other classes are overpowered. And yet when some of them try alts on other classes they complain about how tedious they are.
    Pretty sure that's related to PvMP, mostly. Hunters are the weakest freep class in the game for 1v1 fights. That's why they complain.

    They also lack survivability and self-heals for challenging stuff, like soloing 3-man instances and similar (stuff I can do with ease on Minstrel, LM, Warden and champ, while a Hunter would get stomped). I guess it's also a problem how they only fill one roll effectively - ranged ST dps. Even if they do fill that roll more effectively than any other class.

    But I never heard anyone complaining about Hunters being bad at normal landscape PvE or not doing enough dps in instances. We all know they're good at doing that.

    Anyway, it feels like all classes are a getting a slight nerf in utility with HD, making Hunters weak spot less of an issue. Don't think my LM or Captain will be able to main tank + main heal + main support IP T2C (at the same time) after HD goes live, for example.

  15. #1065
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    405
    Citation Envoyé par LaGere Voir le message
    It all sounds so very bad. Thank goodness I didn't order it! It just seems we aren't heroes anymore, we are the common rabble that someone else is suppose to protect us now. Very disappointing and sad to say the least. I hear that regular questing is now gated behind big battles too, We can only hope that this titantic fail will cause WB/Turbine to sell this to a competent gaming company with the foresight and resources to make it right again.

    Emphatically not true - there is no requirement to complete any of the big battles until after you reach Helm's Deep. What is true is that you need to complete the first part of the epic quest line to unlock the regular contetn - not the same thing at all.

  16. #1066
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2009
    Messages
    898
    Citation Envoyé par clarabelle Voir le message

    ....

    Anyway, it feels like all classes are a getting a slight nerf in utility with HD, making Hunters weak spot less of an issue. Don't think my LM or Captain will be able to main tank + main heal + main support IP T2C (at the same time) after HD goes live, for example.
    Ah don't worry about your LM, until KoA gets fixed you can Tank/Heal/DPS BfE T2C, solo.

    Sorry couldn't help it, lol

  17. #1067
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2007
    Messages
    8 694
    Citation Envoyé par Oldin Voir le message
    There's a large portion of the hunter player-base that didn't want the class to be derp-pen shot spam. Instead now our entire rotation is derp-spam...but i guess that solves it.
    And that's bad, I agree that it hurts hunters. However that's no reason to point to other classes and imply that it's good they were nerfed. Overall it's the game design causing everyone to want to be primary DPS rather than individual players.

    And wait are talking about easiest landscape soloing? Do people still die at the hands of landscape mobs outside of escorting Lalia?
    I only mentioned that because in the past some hunters told me that as a minstrel I should not be able to solo quests as easily as they could. This started back in Shadows of Angmar, it is not a new attitude. In early Moria when so many players put minstrels on hold we were told to suck it up. Never mind that I have all nine classes or that I also have a hunter, those few hunters seemed to think there was some sort of rivalry.

  18. #1068
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2009
    Messages
    898
    Sapience or any Blue Name really.

    The Quickbar memory issue has been brought up several times and I haven't seen any official response, perhaps I've missed something.

    This issue requires a 100 MC purchase on each and every character that does not use 1 Quickslot set to achieve basic expected functionality. It doesn't matter if they are F2P, Preimium, or VIP. In order to use the second Quickbar set, to place our general skills in the configuration we want for each spec we must not only purchase a Spec Tab but then leave it unused so that we can "despec" in order to get the memory to hold.

    I don't mind that upgrades happen in the store at all. If I want to save a third spec and need to buy a new tab to do that, fine I have no problem with that. But what is happening now is we are being given a major system that is not working properly with the only fix being a store purchase and I find that simply unacceptable. On top of the store purchase we need to respec twice just in order to load a new spec, I haven't watched to see if that costs in game gold and if so how much.

    The issue doesn't exist for players that keep all their General Skills in the same spot for every spec and stay on the same quickbar set, so I do realize this isn't an issue for everybody, but it is an issue for some.

    I would really like to know if there is a fix or at the very least a workaround that will be in at launch, or if this is actually what is considered basic functionality and no change is expected. With Beta ending any hope of testing the fix or workaround has ended.

  19. #1069
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2013
    Messages
    87
    Citation Envoyé par Beorthnoth Voir le message
    Emphatically not true - there is no requirement to complete any of the big battles until after you reach Helm's Deep. What is true is that you need to complete the first part of the epic quest line to unlock the regular contetn - not the same thing at all.

    Isn't the epic quest line tied into the big battles? And if they are my statement would be entirely true. And why is any of the regular questing locked behind anything? Isn't paying for it enough to unlock it?
    Mean what you say and say what you mean! If you don't there are always consequences!

  20. #1070
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2008
    Messages
    86
    Apparently one of my post offended someone as I just got infraction from Sapience. My most sincere apologies to anyone if anything that I have posted has offended in any way shape fashion or form. I shall now desist from posting on the forums and just go back to merely reading them. Thank you all and have a wonderful day.

  21. #1071
    Date d'inscription
    août 2008
    Localisation
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Messages
    3 089
    Citation Envoyé par Andthelion Voir le message
    If you mean be supporting the people who only ever play their class one way and one way only then yes he has hit the nail, but shock horror there are people out there who like to do whatever their class can, they explore all it has to offer , experiment, test, improvise , they use their imagination and find new ways of playing their characters and they find that fun and engaging, but hey I suppose there will always be people who look at those players with a tinge of envy, and instead of trying to do those things themselves they campaign to have a level playing ground by having the classes gutted out and dumbed down, thats why every soloer out there fought tooth and nail for access to raid level gear,FAs dropping in T1 instances, RNG loot system so they could run around the landscape one shotting any random mob they see, or standing in the bree crafting hall in all the gold geared glory. Thats why we ended up with the nonsense that was Hytbold and Wildermore and the nonsense that is Big battles. And thats why we have ended up with these pathetic 4 button hollow classes we are on the verge of getting.

    Turbine have made the mistake of catering to people who whilst claiming to have the good of the game at heart are only really interested in the good of THEIR game and THEIR playstyle , sure they veil that with constant cheerleading at every decision they make so they come across as whiter than white and holier than thou, all that has succeeding in doing is driving away the players who actually really do care about the game as a whole, the players who understand that they sometimes have to put aside their wants and needs to allow others to have their's, those players understand that all playstyles need to be catered for to ensure the longevity of the game, and adopting a my way or the highway stance and blindly lobbying at every opportunity for the good of your self without any regard for the bigger picture and what other players are interested in spending their money on is a one way ticket to shutdown.

    Anyway you win, congratulations, you have everything you ever dreamed of, but remember you reap what you sow, and come March next year we will see what crop there is left.
    It seems to be difficult for some people to accept that it's possible to both love the challenging, diverse playstyle of the current system; to crave greater challenge and more intense content, AND to be happy about the LotRO class changes coming with Helm's Deep (and believe that these changes will bring better, more challenging content in the future). I've seen so many comments that imply that anyone who likes the changes must want the game dumbed down, must not know their classes enough to fully appreciate the implications of the changes, must be casual players, must not do any raiding, must spend all their time in Bree or on the landscape, must be incapable of learning or enjoying a class to its fullest extent.

    I don't know whether it's because people are frustrated and want to try to insult those who are in favour of the changes, or whether its because it's easier to attack a straw argument than debate a real player who has nuanced feelings about these things, or whether it's that people just honestly can't conceive of anyone with a similar outlook and playstyle as them arriving at a different conclusion on these changes than the one they've arrived at.

    It seems that you're saying that that the people who are committed to giving these changes a shot, who are committed to sticking around with LotRO through this very rough patch, are people who don't care about the game, and are driving out those who do. It seems you're saying that supporting these changes, which are more in the spirit of the original LotRO of the early days than any other changes over the past few years have been, is tantamount to "blindly lobbying at every opportunity for the good of your self without any regard for the bigger picture."

    What I view as "the bigger picture" is a LotRO that reflects the LotRO I knew and loved back in the SoA days. A LotRO that is balanced, smart, and with clearly defined classes and roles. These changes do seem to place the game well on that path. I believe that is for the best for the game and its players in the long term. Even the players who are resistant to the changes.

    As for "lobbying", the only thing I've been lobbying for at all is for people to be civil, and give these changes a fair chance. I want an intense, exciting game with challenging content and tough multi-boss raids and rewarding end-game content as much as the next guy. That is, in fact, WHY I like these changes.

    Citation Envoyé par LaGere Voir le message
    Isn't the epic quest line tied into the big battles? And if they are my statement would be entirely true. And why is any of the regular questing locked behind anything? Isn't paying for it enough to unlock it?
    Actually, if you have the expansion then on the 18th you will be able to login to LotRO and play Big Battles without having to do the epic, or any other content. The only content that is "gated" in any way is the landscape content. You have to do a couple "run around and talk to people" type epic quests to open up the landscape stuff. It's pretty simple and doesn't take long.

  22. #1072
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2010
    Messages
    274
    Citation Envoyé par Lohi Voir le message
    And that's bad, I agree that it hurts hunters. However that's no reason to point to other classes and imply that it's good they were nerfed. Overall it's the game design causing everyone to want to be primary DPS rather than individual players.


    I only mentioned that because in the past some hunters told me that as a minstrel I should not be able to solo quests as easily as they could. This started back in Shadows of Angmar, it is not a new attitude. In early Moria when so many players put minstrels on hold we were told to suck it up. Never mind that I have all nine classes or that I also have a hunter, those few hunters seemed to think there was some sort of rivalry.
    Fair enough I can understand that. I've played enough to know how hard it was to level the non-dps classes a couple of years back, so I'm very much in favor of giving each player an avenue to complete similar content. What I am not for is homogenization of each class's dps.

    As far as I know the reasons we were given for these class changes were a) skill bloat b)homogenization between classes. What these class changes have given us is more homogenization between classes. Everyone can be main dps now. I understand the need for classes to navigate their way through the landscape. I don't understand the need for everyone save maybe 1-2 classes having top line dps.

  23. #1073
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2012
    Messages
    106
    Citation Envoyé par frickinmuck Voir le message
    /snip I want an intense, exciting game with challenging content and tough multi-boss raids and rewarding end-game content as much as the next guy. That is, in fact, WHY I like these changes.

    .
    HUH? what multi boss raid? Far as I know there isn't even a single. Or is this a hope and dream statement?

  24. #1074
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2008
    Messages
    992
    Citation Envoyé par frickinmuck Voir le message
    I've seen so many comments that imply that anyone who likes the changes must want the game dumbed down, must not know their classes enough to fully appreciate the implications of the changes, must be casual players, must not do any raiding, must spend all their time in Bree or on the landscape, must be incapable of learning or enjoying a class to its fullest extent.

    I don't know whether it's because people are frustrated and want to try to insult those who are in favour of the changes, or whether its because it's easier to attack a straw argument than debate a real player who has nuanced feelings about these things, or whether it's that people just honestly can't conceive of anyone with a similar outlook and playstyle as them arriving at a different conclusion on these changes than the one they've arrived at.

    It seems that you're saying that that the people who are committed to giving these changes a shot, who are committed to sticking around with LotRO through this very rough patch, are people who don't care about the game, and are driving out those who do. It seems you're saying that supporting these changes, which are more in the spirit of the original LotRO of the early days than any other changes over the past few years have been, is tantamount to "blindly lobbying at every opportunity for the good of your self without any regard for the bigger picture."
    People on both sides of the argument are attacking those on the other side. It's not exclusively one side or the other.

  25. #1075
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2007
    Messages
    384
    Citation Envoyé par Dworin Voir le message
    People on both sides of the argument are attacking those on the other side. It's not exclusively one side or the other.
    A people who dislike the changes but want to see Moria and will support a flawed product(to them)
    B People who dislike the changes and will not continue
    C people who like the changes and will continue
    D those who like the changes, but are mad others don't, and don't believe they deserve an opinion or have a right to make ones own purchasing decision. They just spam people who voice concerns with points why they SHOULD like it
    E those who dislike like the changes, but are mad others do and don't believe they deserve an opinion have a right to make ones own purchasing decision. They just spam people who voice praise with points why they SHOULD NOT like it

    Welcome to a polarizing expansion it will get no better, just quieter <---IMHO).


    NOTE: Moria was meant to be Mordor
    Dernière modification par Bendin ; 12/11/2013 à 21h24.

 

 
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