Il semble que les cookies ne soient pas activés dans votre navigateur. Veuillez activer les cookies pour garantir une expérience du site optimale.
Page 30 sur 45 PremièrePremière ... 20 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 40 ... DernièreDernière
Affichage des résultats 726 à 750 sur 1122
  1. #726
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2012
    Localisation
    The Sunset Grill
    Messages
    306
    Citation Envoyé par monteeburns Voir le message
    So you imply he broke the NDA ( or was somehow 'involved' in it, whatever that is supposed to mean ) and it's up to others to prove he didn't. Where I come from, you don't throw around allegations and then say 'ah well you can't prove they didn't do it can you?'. If you have evidence he broke the NDA in any shape or form, you should say. If not, you should admit there is no evidence whatsoever that Fredelas was involved in breaking the NDA and stop throwing baseless dirt. Apparently you don't see baseless accusations as toxic.



    Maybe you can imagine what it's like to be accused of something without any evidence, and yet be unable to respond to refute those claims. Mob justice at its finest.
    Agreed 100%. I think its disrespectful to attack someone when they can't even defend themselves.

    Seeing the negativity and accusations here is really starting to depress me.
    [IMG]http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy87/Torgeau/sig-lotro_zpsf040a784.jpg[/IMG]
    -[B]Fence Sitter of Eriador[/B]-
    "[I]All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal or fattening.[/I]" - Alexander Woollcott

  2. #727
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2010
    Messages
    7 583
    Respectfully. Its absurd for people to be claiming rule 13 while violating rules 2, 4 and 7.

    Can we get back to the topic at hand? Helms deep.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
    Delego-L85 Hunter ; Stodden-L51-Captain ; Edhul-L61-Loremaster
    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  3. #728
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2008
    Messages
    1 685
    Citation Envoyé par Jamesm429 Voir le message
    As been stated, a capstone is not a skill.
    So? Someone said these tales have completely disappeared. I just pointed out that they are just being converted into a capstone instead. And you know what? Tales are toggle buff, so it makes sense for these tales become part of Minstrel's yellow tree, which specializes in buff.

    Let face this fact: Most of our old skills are still there, just that they become part of other skills, are converted into traits or get gated in trees which suits their functions.

    And, I think we will have more general skills, gated skills and traits in future updates and expansions. Who knows if our current 'missing' skills will come back with better (or worse) functions as our max level increases?

  4. #729
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2010
    Localisation
    Watertown, MA
    Messages
    2 909
    I admit I let myself get baited, and I already reported my own posts (yes, really), but I'm not the one who brought the issue of Fredelas' ban into this thread.

    I will say it's really bloody rich to have the people who are busy throwing around accusations of shilling, censorship, and worse turn around and get in a huff when someone repeats statements about someone else that they heard directly from that person.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  5. #730
    Date d'inscription
    août 2010
    Localisation
    unknown
    Messages
    1 475
    Since I certainly won't waste neither my money nor my time with big skirmishes ...

    Any news what will come after Helms Deep?

  6. #731
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2007
    Localisation
    Philly, PA
    Messages
    3 314
    I'll just make this comment about the expansion.

    I do not currently want to play on live servers. The beta has spoiled me and I do not want to go back to the current system. I like the new skill tree's that much. Maybe I'm too casual or I prefer the "dumbed down" approach. I much prefer 22 skills over 46 skills.
    [COLOR=#ff0000][COLOR=#ff0000][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=red]Sarik - Warleader [/COLOR][COLOR=#339966][COLOR=SeaGreen]//[/COLOR] [/COLOR][COLOR=#3366ff]Jacin - Champion [COLOR=SeaGreen]//[/COLOR] [COLOR=Green]Aiden - Minstrel[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
    [/COLOR]
    [/COLOR]

  7. #732
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2007
    Messages
    8 696
    Citation Envoyé par Sthrax Voir le message
    Player feedback, despite what they say, isn't what drove this change.
    I can certainly see them presenting an idea of trait trees and having player feedback not be aghast in horror or even approving of it. The real problem is not necessarily the trees but the actual implementation of it. It seems the trait trees concept was fixed in stone early on, maybe even months before devs started figuring out how to actually implement it for classes. Thus you get the "this won't change" response to certain aspects of it.

    The old system would never have worked with Big Battles upscaling characters from level 10- players wouldn't have the skills they'd need to be able to use as a scaled 95 in order to perform their class roles.
    Except that big battles isn't really making use of class roles much, certainly not requiring every single character to be able to do a non-dps role. It was pretty much a foregone conclusion from the time it was announced that any level 10 player in a big battle would be mainly moderate DPS or moderate support, but people kept thinking that big battles were some sort of traditional raid requiring everyone to play at their peak performance. Even in a skirmish raid I suspect you could take a scaled up level 10 character and be useful, all they have to do is attack the target assist most of the time, maybe throw out a scaled up heal or buff (yes, characters have some of these by level 10). And nothing in the system was ever going to force someone to group with another player who doesn't know the class, yet that was the worry I was seeing between the lines.

  8. #733
    Date d'inscription
    avril 2011
    Localisation
    Bree
    Messages
    38
    Citation Envoyé par Lohi Voir le message
    Which means these are lost to any minstrel not taking this specialization, or not high enough level to get the capstone. Whereas currently we get these at level 22, which will be impossible in the new system. Not content to be a healbot that also buffs and can do some damage, they're now just healbots and may as well be clones from other MMOs.

    But this is minstrel, we're all seriously hoping there's a major and radical redesign in 12.1 update. Even non minstrels should be hoping for this if they want minstrels to remain in the game.
    I think that's highly unlikely. More likely we'll see very minor Minstrel tweaks will be in each update. I would be extremely surprised to see any major changes within the remaining life of the game. To expect otherwise is merely setting yourself up for disappointment.

    Like the rest of us, minstrels are going to have to figure out how to make a broken class viable on their own. Although leveling implications were no doubt raised during beta, I don't get the feeling that such concerns would have much impact on systems designed for levels 85+. It appears that they simply don't want minstrels to heal and buff or DPS. Putting buffs high in the relevant tree keeps this from happening.

    Thanks to the punitive cost for taking skills outside your "specialization", and the OOC requirement for switching builds, it appears that Turbine wants players to specialize in exactly one role at a time. The out-of-specialty cost of traits make it idiotic to trait outside your specialty at low levels. You might end up with a red, a yelllow, and a blue build you use in different situations while leveling, but each of those will be solid-colour builds for the most part. It's rock-paper-scissors. You can't pick rock and paper at the same time.

    Turbine could have jigged the costs so that you couldn't get two capstones while keeping the cost of traits uniform across all the trees. They could have made it expensive enough to get to a capstone that you couldn't trait past halfway in any other tree. Turbine could have made the trees flatter too by placing many more traits in each tree than we have points to buy. Any of these approaches would have allowed a higher degree customization within the trait-tree framework. They didn't. Unless I am very much mistaken, they won't. We might be able to rearrange the deck chairs a bit, but none of us has any say in the course this ship is following.

    Is this "dumbing down the game"? Yes I think so, but pejorative terms aside, that may be exactly what is needed to keep a 7 year old MMO from fading away completely. The days of 100 man raids, corpse-crawling, and negative XP are long gone.

    I'm not smart enough to know if these changes will prove to be good or bad for the game in the long run. I've seen a lot of games fail by not listening to players enough and I've seen games fail by listening to players too much.
    “Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”

    ? Pravin Lal

  9. #734
    Date d'inscription
    août 2010
    Localisation
    unknown
    Messages
    1 475
    Citation Envoyé par jayspeed Voir le message
    I much prefer 22 skills over 46 skills.

    Hm ... and why not just removed the 24 skills you were not using from your toolbars? If you can live witout them you wont miss them and those who want to use them still can.

  10. #735
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2007
    Messages
    8 696
    Citation Envoyé par Aidus Voir le message
    At level 85 with 55 trait point hybridization is challenging, but by 95 I was able to build several hybrid builds that I felt very comfortable with, I imagine by 105 it will be easily doable.
    However what happens at level 30, or 50? Not all players are going to just solo blindly until level cap, some of them are going to want to do some group content. They do it today even. Yes, even at level 30 there are players getting together to do tough group content in Garth Agarwen, and in those three person instances you need flexibility and having a strict stereotypical class role is actually a hindrance. At level 50 these players would have earned some legendary class traits for some nice skills; only now they won't get them as some of those level 50 skills will now require more levels to acquire. Even at level 20 they will want to go into Great Barrows.

  11. #736
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2007
    Messages
    8 696
    Citation Envoyé par gamewizard Voir le message
    Forgive me if I've missed it over the course of the thread. But for someone like me who enjoys PvP and tough group content is there ANY reason to pick up HD?
    If you're creep, then no. But chances are freeps will be overpowered for a bit.

    If you're freep, you'll still want those extra 10 levels, PLUS those extra trait points you get from doing quests/deeds in HD. You could do without those points I suppose. Then there's the issue of gear, but that's a bit murky how it's acquired (itemization is generally last thing done in for an expansion), but without HD you might bet stuck with only crafted gear or whatever you can get from scaled instances.

    Even if you don't get HD you will get the class changes.

  12. #737
    Date d'inscription
    novembre 2007
    Messages
    1 209
    Citation Envoyé par Lohi Voir le message
    However what happens at level 30, or 50? Not all players are going to just solo blindly until level cap, some of them are going to want to do some group content. They do it today even. Yes, even at level 30 there are players getting together to do tough group content in Garth Agarwen, and in those three person instances you need flexibility and having a strict stereotypical class role is actually a hindrance. At level 50 these players would have earned some legendary class traits for some nice skills; only now they won't get them as some of those level 50 skills will now require more levels to acquire. Even at level 20 they will want to go into Great Barrows.
    I think I have been clear. But if there is a doubt.

    In my opinion, skills earned from level 1-50 (minus legendary skills) should remain in the general skills available to all. In my opinion the trees should have kicked in after that, allowing for "extreme specialization" beyond that, but in conjunction with that I would have probably imposed a strong out of specialization penalty.

    I have suggested this approach numerous times and will continue to believe this is the best thing for players and for the game as a whole.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000000bd0ff/signature.png]Aidus[/charsig]

    "Live and Let Die"

  13. #738
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2007
    Messages
    8 696
    Citation Envoyé par Darlgon Voir le message
    Funny thing about that. With HD, you are expected to vote with your wallet BEFORE you can see whats in the box if you were not in Beta.
    How so? Pre-ordering is not required. You can always wait. I've always thought pre-ordering was a bad idea, even if a game is rumored to be great.

  14. #739
    Date d'inscription
    février 2007
    Messages
    974
    Citation Envoyé par Gedachtnis Voir le message
    Sorry I'm traited Lightning, no Fire till we're outta combat and I can switch specs....
    Exactly like it is now on live, so your sarcasm was wasted.
    I like ice cream.

  15. #740
    Date d'inscription
    mai 2012
    Localisation
    Forod orchall
    Messages
    688
    Citation Envoyé par Belnavar Voir le message
    Improved Staff Strike, the skill, does not give all those bonuses you listed.
    What was the last time you played a Lore-master? And by played I mean actively engaging in combat and using your skills, not logging your LM alt to craft/do festivals/chat with kin etc.

    Improved Staff Strike, the skill, does indeed give all those bonuses I listed. Here is the live trait which enables this skill to provide all these bonuses - which are now entirely lost in HD:



    Anyone who knows this class, knows this trait and this skill. This is among the first traits obtainable by new LMs who are active in their gameplay because it's so easy to get (accumulates from level 1 and using staff strike 600 times, the limit per day is a whoppingly generous 200). Given the low-level considerations at which it is obtainable, it goes a long way towards making this class sturdy and less squishy on early levels, and the loss of Improved Staff Strike and these stats will be felt very hard.

    Your statement displays your lack of familiarity with the LM class and its most basic skill mechanics.
    I respect the fact that you are supportive of class changes, but why are you trying to whitewash and downplay the ramifications of lost skills and abilities upon the class and its gameplay when you are clearly unfamiliar with how this impacts the class? This only serves to illustrate, intentionally or unintentionally, that the more someone is in favor of the class trees and skill reductions, the less knowledgeable they are as to how to play that class and use all the skills it has.

    Citation Envoyé par Belnavar Voir le message
    From what I can see, I don't believe there is an equivalent to a melee damage buff, but then I'd argue that a Lore-master doesn't really need it, especially given the slew of new elemental damage skills, procs, etc. I highly doubt Lore-master DPS is going to suffer because of slightly less melee damage.
    Those who are demonstrably unfamiliar with a class are not in the best position to argue as to what that class needs or doesn't need. Lore-master autoattacks are absolutely going to suffer, and the loss of those considerable stats is more than slightly less. The point was not DPS overall. The point was availability of this reliable and hefty DPS skill regardless of specialization - now it is entirely gone. The point was availability of this reliable DPS skill to those of us who do not enjoy the arson pyromania of Master of Nature's Fury red line but rather play LM as a debuffer/crowd controller even when solo. The point was the availability and inclusiveness of multiple playstyles and multiple ways of enjoying the Lore-master class.

    An interesting observation from beta when it comes to the LM changes:
    Those who favor the LM class changes and are most positive about it, tend to almost unanimously be DPS-spec LMs. The red dps line is the only one which has gotten extensive dev love and attention, and yes the dps is beastly and the addition of new dps skills is beastly. But, when other LM players heavily criticize (for example) the fact that the Ancient Master line is still excruciatingly painfully underdeveloped and fails to perform to even its live standards (let alone surpass it!), meaning that the non-red-spec playstyle which favors CC/debuffs is in considerable danger of being ineffective, the DPS LM players tend to react by whitewashing the issues and brushing them under the carpet.
    I do not mean to generalize, and I do not mean to imply that all DPS LMs do that. Not all. But what I do mean is that I am convinced by now that those who play the LM class for the single sake of doing DPS, and not for CC/debuffs, and have the red traits perma-tattooed in their trait setups without ever swapping them, have a limited awareness of LM's full potential and versatility, and their enthusiastic reception of the LM class changes attests to their unawareness of how much in fact has been lost and nerfed.
    Éala Éarendel engla beorhtast / ofer middangeard monnum sended / and sodfasta sunnan leoma, / tohrt ofer tunglas þu tida gehvane / of sylfum þe symle inlihtes.

  16. #741
    Date d'inscription
    février 2011
    Messages
    1
    Citation Envoyé par Herwegur Voir le message
    What was the last time you played a Lore-master? And by played I mean actively engaging in combat and using your skills, not logging your LM alt to craft/do festivals/chat with kin etc.
    Does it seem to anyone else reading this thread that the interrogatories foisted upon the community have been integrated purposefully to the discussions of well-reasoned dissentions toward game mechanics, game viability or game vision regarding character progression to distract the user base from the heartfelt message of seasoned intelligent game community participants?

    Herwegur, and others patiently reply to messages that that seem very teacher replying to young student.

    If I were a developer I would go back and read the same types of discussions that happened at Turbine when it switched Asheron's Call to Asheron's Call 2 and lost most of the user base with skill trees.

    (PVPer's versus Community/ Kin/ PVE players) each vie to make the game in their image. Reckless, chaotic, opportunistic twitch fast game play versus stable, reliable, logical accomplishment and diversion.
    Balanced development requires consistent development plans with visionary leadership. I fear the vision is leaderless and the constancy to purpose of "make a great game" is moving to "make a great amount of money".
    I hope I am wrong.

    Just my opinion.

    LVL85 Hunter, et al.

  17. #742
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2009
    Localisation
    St Louis Mo
    Messages
    1 999
    Citation Envoyé par Herwegur Voir le message
    An interesting observation from beta when it comes to the LM changes:
    Those who favor the LM class changes and are most positive about it, tend to almost unanimously be DPS-spec LMs. The red dps line is the only one which has gotten extensive dev love and attention, and yes the dps is beastly and the addition of new dps skills is beastly. But, when other LM players heavily criticize (for example) the fact that the Ancient Master line is still excruciatingly painfully underdeveloped and fails to perform to even its live standards (let alone surpass it!), meaning that the non-red-spec playstyle which favors CC/debuffs is in considerable danger of being ineffective, the DPS LM players tend to react by whitewashing the issues and brushing them under the carpet.
    I do not mean to generalize, and I do not mean to imply that all DPS LMs do that. Not all. But what I do mean is that I am convinced by now that those who play the LM class for the single sake of doing DPS, and not for CC/debuffs, and have the red traits perma-tattooed in their trait setups without ever swapping them, have a limited awareness of LM's full potential and versatility, and their enthusiastic reception of the LM class changes attests to their unawareness of how much in fact has been lost and nerfed.
    And thus, my proposal, with all the class changes, to rename the class "Arson-master". After all.. trying to remember the last time I used CC except for BFE on the guys who use their own morale to break your mez. Maybe it was Disease wing.

  18. #743
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2010
    Localisation
    Dublin, Ireland
    Messages
    1 639
    Citation Envoyé par Herwegur Voir le message
    Improved Staff Strike, the skill, does indeed give all those bonuses I listed.
    That is not the case. The trait grants the majority of those boosts to the skill. The skill itself doesn't do anything but damage and, on a crit, a stun. The +5% morale has nothing to do with the skill at all, but is simply a bonus from the trait. Damage boosts, morale boosts, and a stun from Staff Strike can all be found on the trait trees in some form or other. Sure, the skill itself is weaker without this trait, but it hasn't lost any actual functionality, such as its ability to damage or stun (when properly traited). I get that you consider the lower DPS of this skill a nerf, and arguably it is (though I have not compared the DPS figures of Improved Staff Strike on live with its traited beta version, which also applies lightning damage with its stun), but the basic functionality of what it does is still there for those who want it.

    Citation Envoyé par Herwegur Voir le message
    What was the last time you played a Lore-master? And by played I mean actively engaging in combat and using your skills, not logging your LM alt to craft/do festivals/chat with kin etc.

    ...

    Anyone who knows this class, knows this trait and this skill.

    ...

    Your statement displays your lack of familiarity with the LM class and its most basic skill mechanics. I respect the fact that you are supportive of class changes, but why are you trying to whitewash and downplay the ramifications of lost skills and abilities upon the class and its gameplay when you are clearly unfamiliar with how this impacts the class? This only serves to illustrate, intentionally or unintentionally, that the more someone is in favor of the class trees and skill reductions, the less knowledgeable they are as to how to play that class and use all the skills it has.

    ...

    Those who are demonstrably unfamiliar with a class are not in the best position to argue as to what that class needs or doesn't need.
    I have played one of my LMs within the last few weeks, and I have in the past played an LM at high levels, including in instances and raids. I know the class fairly well. However, perhaps you can actually focus on my argument instead of repeatedly accusing me of not knowing how to play the class, which is quite insulting and shows an inability to make a point without resorting to personal attacks. Even if I had never played an LM before, it doesn't change the fact that you are claiming "all these bonuses ... are now entirely lost in HD" (my emphasis), and that one of the big bonuses from that trait, the stun, can indeed be found in the trait trees, as can morale and damage boosts.

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 105 - Brandywine - Leader of Keepers of the Palantiri

  19. #744
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2009
    Localisation
    St Louis Mo
    Messages
    1 999
    Citation Envoyé par Lohi Voir le message
    Add yet more pressure from the players who demand new skills periodically. They want to visit the class trainer! We have more skills than other MMOs I've tried and yet players say loudly that they want more. It doesn't feel like an advancement for them if it's merely scaling up.

    So part of the problem is that Turbine writes themselves into corners at times. Then they really have to shake things up to give it room to inflate some more. Ie, levels 1 through 50 were planned out very well, however they were planned as if 50 were the maximum level and was going to remain that level for a very long time (or at least far enough away to not worry about). Thus adding a mere ten levels required some big changes; legendary items, revamping all the traits and shoving them into sets, handing out some really powerful armor, and so forth. Then in Mirkwood they discovered the armor was too powerful, the gap between casual players and raiders was too wide, and so the "upgrades" were really side-grades. Now it seems what we have is that they need to add more skills, and yet we have no room for more skills.
    You bring up a valid point. Was this skill pruning going to make it so they never have to add skills again? Maybe, they already added points for leveling from 85-95. And will continue to add points from level 95-199, when we hit the gates of Mordor. Then, what? Eventually, every character will have enough skill points to build a character with all three trait trees.

    (Pardon me while I do some figuring.)
    Lets see, I think it was 31 points per trait for your primary spec, double that for secondary.

    Means you need 31 points to fill one tree, (31+62=)93 pts to fill second, (93+62)=155 pts to fill all three

    At 85, on a "finished" tune, we will have:
    40 pts for leveling up, (This number will increase every odd level, so 5 more points for getting from 85 to 95)
    8 pts if we did all class deeds, (Never goes up once done.)
    3 pts of all books done, (Goes up when each new book is done, but only by one pt.)
    3 pts from Moria, (Never goes up once done.)
    1 pt from level 45 class quests (Never goes up once done.)

    Total= 55 pts at level 85 to start off with.
    Means you will be able to fill primary trait tree with 31 points, leaving ... 24 pts. However, those take two to use in the off set, so you really only get 12 traits out of them. So you get Tier 1 and Tier 2, plus some into three on the second trait tree.

    5 pts when you get HD done, (Maybe get 5 per expansion, or maybe this is only because this is the first run through for this concept. Lets say never goes up with each new XPac.)

    Total 65 pts at 95, with all HD done (whatever is required for that)

    With no extra bonus per expansion, we end up with:
    70 pts at 105
    75 at 115
    80 at 125
    85 at 135
    90 at 145
    95 at 155
    100 at 165
    ....
    155 pts at level 275

    (Back from boring math.)

    Umm.. nope, guess we will probably never fill all three trait trees.

    So, at 85 you will be able to max out one trait set, and then start the third tier of another spec. Not too bad, if you want a semi hybrid build, I guess.

    I guess this raises the possibility that they did this so they would never have to make any new skills, just adjust the power of the ones we are getting with this expansion based on the max level we are. I guess its a cool concept. Definitely makes it easier to design content. Especially if the suits plan on cutting back staff because "we dont need as many people due to lack of money coming in, with a smaller player base and less new subscribers".

    (All statements in this post are purely theoretical and not endorsed by Turbine, their management or devs or by Bugs err.. WB.)

    Signed,
    Conspiracy Theories or Us

  20. #745
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2009
    Localisation
    St Louis Mo
    Messages
    1 999
    Citation Envoyé par Sapience Voir le message
    Furtim's "B" answer is the most accurate.
    Is this thread your option B for the live forums?

  21. #746
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2010
    Localisation
    Dublin, Ireland
    Messages
    1 639
    Citation Envoyé par Darlgon Voir le message
    Means you need 31 points to fill one tree, (31+62=)93 pts to fill second, (93+62)=155 pts to fill all three
    It is 31 points to get the capstone, but (for Captain at least) 51 points to fully max every trait in a tree.

    Also bear in mind that the devs said there is room to add new traits and more ranks to existing traits in future expansions, and with an off-spec penalty still in place this should discourage people from trying to get the capstones in two or three trees simultaneously, while still leaving some options to grab stuff lower down in the other trees.

    I think it's possible to make new skills if they are locked in the trees, as we would then have to make choices to acquire them or other skills, or to acquire them or other traits. So long as the overall total of available skills remains at a reasonable level, it is not impossible to give us more choices to spend our points on.

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 105 - Brandywine - Leader of Keepers of the Palantiri

  22. #747
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2012
    Localisation
    Lithuania
    Messages
    312
    Could any HD tester share experience about Champion class? How is it after revamp?

  23. #748
    Date d'inscription
    août 2008
    Localisation
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Messages
    3 092
    Citation Envoyé par Cithryth Voir le message
    I thought maybe some would appreciate being able to see a 'side by side' comparison (as it were) of live gameplay vs the same gameplay in beta. First I copied my lvl 26 LM over to the beta server. Then I recorded playing Trouble in Tuckborough first on Windfola and then doing the same in beta:

    Beta vs Live - Solo LM Skirmish
    Enjoyable to watch, even though I've already done some back and forth in beta and live on my own LM.

    Citation Envoyé par Lynx3d Voir le message
    Yes I'm aware that we don't *need* to fully go down one tree, it just seems to make very little sense to not do so, because spending points in other trees is heavily penalized. Having to spend less than half the points to reach the bottom of one tree is one major design flaw, IMHO.

    Anyway, I hope you're right and there are possiblilities for hybrid builds that don't just totally cripple your character...
    There is some room to hybridize, contrary to what some people are saying, and the sacrifices to do it aren't that dire. I did a bit of toying around with hybrid builds and did get some fun, playable, potent builds. Everyone is talking about and focusing on the T7 set bonuses and capstones, but you don't absolutely need them. They're not so amazing that you can't sanely make other choices. For example, the hunter Bowmaster capstone skill is Upshot, which is in a lot of ways like a faster Heartseeker, but its potency relies on how many points of focus you have (i.e. the more focus it spends, the more powerful the damage). The T7 Bowmaster set bonus is a stealth enhancement that gives you a big crit bonus when firing from camo.

    Both the capstone and the bonus are pretty great, especially when used together, but there are some options that digging into blue or yellow line give that are equally appealing. Some people will want to dig into yellow for Rain of Thorns, others may want to dig into blue for more focus generation - it really depends on the player, their playing style and needs of the specific activity planned.

    Not only that, but aside from capstones and set bonuses, there really is a lot of stuff in each tree that not everyone will want. So it's highly unlikely that most players will want to fully max out a tree. It's far more desirable to fill out the tree until you get the capstone and T7 bonus, skipping all the traits that bore you, and then have some points left over for other trees. Most players will likely want to do that over filling out every trait in one tree.

    Citation Envoyé par Southpa Voir le message
    If bloat were indeed the issue for some (definitely not all and NONE of the players I know), what would be wrong with putting the skills you want on your bar and leaving the rest alone?
    I've seen this same comment several times, and the best answer given to that was already put forward by Frieja awhile back. The skill bloat wasn't so much one of people having too many skills on their bars that they don't use, or don't know how to use, the skill bloat was about development and where characters can "go from here" and the difficulty of developing new and balanced content for classes that can do everything.

    Aside from that, even if some novice players were to drop a few skills off their bars to make the game less confusing to play, that wouldn't change that those skills were still available to and used by most other players. So no, a few confused casual players removing skills from their bars does nothing to address the core problem at all.

    Citation Envoyé par Herwegur Voir le message
    Your statement displays your lack of familiarity with the LM class and its most basic skill mechanics.
    I respect the fact that you are supportive of class changes, but why are you trying to whitewash and downplay the ramifications of lost skills and abilities upon the class and its gameplay when you are clearly unfamiliar with how this impacts the class? This only serves to illustrate, intentionally or unintentionally, that the more someone is in favor of the class trees and skill reductions, the less knowledgeable they are as to how to play that class and use all the skills it has.
    It's false to say that those who support the changes do not know the nuances of their characters. I've been playing hunters since SoA. I have and actively play 3 (working on my 4th) end game hunters, all of which participate regularly in raids, skraids, T2 instances, etc. I know and use every skill on my bar on live, and I have done many in-game hunter tutorials for players, and created thorough and detailed hunter guides for kinnies who wanted to get more depth on the class. Am I the best hunter on my server? Heck no, there are some far better hunters than me, but I know my stuff and my characters and gameplay reflect that.

    Despite the fact that my gameplay on live is completely about maxing the possibilities for every skill on my bar, and despite the fact that I absolutely live for that type of challenging, crazy strategic frenetic gameplay, I support the class changes with enthusiasm. Why? Because I want a game that gives my characters a future that is EXCITING to me, and it's been years since I've felt any enthusiasm for the development of my characters. I am sick to death of the same-old same-old, and of getting "improved slightly tweaked skill x" whenever the cap is raised. I am sick of feeling like the only meaningful thing I can do anymore to distinguish and build on my characters is grind for better gear. Once you have all the golds, where to from there? Min/maxing is painfully, dreadfully boring to me.

    Of course my heart aches for the feeling I will have when HD releases, of having my current playing style completely wiped away. It took me a hell of a long time to come to terms with that, and a grieving process for sure. There are still times when I shudder at the thought. But I truly feel it's for the greater good, and that by the time I've fully adjusted to the changes again when this all goes live I will already have enough points to do some pretty decent hybrid builds, so I'm not worried. There is more than enough great content in this expansion to distract me through leveling up to cap again and earning those points.

    The level 85 hunter that will exist at launch is still playable and fun. The 95 hunter I plan to have down the road will be even more fun. And the great thing is, I now have future updates to look forward to. Instead of rolling my eyes with boredom at the thought of where my characters will go for Gondor and Mordor, I am once again excited about the future of the game.

    I think it behooves us ALL to respect that there is a broad diversity of opinion with regard to these changes, and respect that it is indeed possible to know the current classes and yet still support the class changes. Just as it is possible to care about progression and the future of the game, and still hate these changes and want to keep the old way intact.

    Citation Envoyé par Zombielord Voir le message
    Any news what will come after Helms Deep?
    The only future update I know of is the crafting instances, which will be coming next update, and the housing update, which we've been told is coming after Helm's Deep. It was promised for later this year, but I suspect we won't likely see it until early next, or else scattered in pieces across the next few updates. Turbine hasn't talked much about the next update beyond that. They did say in the 20 questions dev chats and so forth that there will likely be more traditional instances coming in future expansions/updates, so it won't just be Big Battles from here on in.

    Citation Envoyé par Lohi Voir le message
    Except that big battles isn't really making use of class roles much, certainly not requiring every single character to be able to do a non-dps role. It was pretty much a foregone conclusion from the time it was announced that any level 10 player in a big battle would be mainly moderate DPS or moderate support, but people kept thinking that big battles were some sort of traditional raid requiring everyone to play at their peak performance. Even in a skirmish raid I suspect you could take a scaled up level 10 character and be useful, all they have to do is attack the target assist most of the time, maybe throw out a scaled up heal or buff (yes, characters have some of these by level 10). And nothing in the system was ever going to force someone to group with another player who doesn't know the class, yet that was the worry I was seeing between the lines.
    However, all levels can participate in and build on their Big Battles roles (Commander, Vanguard, Engineer), so it's totally possible for a lower level character to participate meaningfully and even powerfully in Big Battles over time.

    Citation Envoyé par Darlgon Voir le message
    You bring up a valid point. Was this skill pruning going to make it so they never have to add skills again? Maybe, they already added points for leveling from 85-95. And will continue to add points from level 95-199, when we hit the gates of Mordor. Then, what? Eventually, every character will have enough skill points to build a character with all three trait trees.
    And don't forget they will likely be expanding on the trait trees over time, too. Adding more skills, further bonuses, etc.
    Dernière modification par frickinmuck ; 07/11/2013 à 02h20.

  24. #749
    Date d'inscription
    août 2008
    Localisation
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Messages
    3 092
    Citation Envoyé par NaktiesKarys Voir le message
    Could any HD tester share experience about Champion class? How is it after revamp?
    There is a detailed guide here which lists out all the trait and skill changes. I didn't play my champ much during beta so I can't give any meaningful info beyond that. I know others will likely jump in.

  25. #750
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2010
    Localisation
    Central Victoria, Australia
    Messages
    1 876
    Citation Envoyé par Jamesm429 Voir le message
    Have you raided? What mini in his right mind would go with a tree line that would give his group buffs but not be able to rez? Please click my link below and watch some of the video's Ramble On has done T2CM. I used all my skills and kept buffs up for my raid. Now instead of being able to do all those things, I am now only able to do one or the other? That's not options.
    I agree and still feel broken compared to live. But not quite as broken as before 5.1
    So, I am going to make a positive post about some minstrels changes here, for the first time. Check my posts- i was part of the vocal minority. I was as 'Frustrated as Fredelas' with lack of feedback for our class from turbine, and the tone of some Turbine feedback we got in general threads in Beta, but i do believe in acknowledging change and so will give credit where it is due.

    These are observed changes (Dev hasn' said anything-but 5.1 does show the most desperate and unanimous feedback has been partially implemented.) They are only some of the crucial ones raised in this thread by minstrels. Suggest non beta minis go to minstrel class summary thread under 'character creation and development' for other updates-especailly on critical bugs.

    1.-OK so in 5.1 we definitely GOT RALLY BACK as a general skill (ie is avaialble in all specs). Trouble is it is buggy and doesn't appear always and it is still listed as blue trait only in tree. but after several repecs-it appeared. Boba has screenshots on minstrel class summary thread.
    2.- Our dps has been denerfed. We are very glass-more so than RKs I think but my RKs are babies-I could be wrong. But dps red build is viable on landscape and in skirms, now. haven't tested in BB. (Too traumatised from earlier tests still. :P )
    3. -stance icons are now different for each stance and heals ( edit: one stance-may be melody not resonance) now has blue icon -so there will be less confusion with active stances.

    Overall: We are viable but fragile as secondary dps now in red. Still boring in blue unless the BB raid content is TOO tier2C level (haven't done all curent tier2C raid content and haven't done a BB raid-so not sure what we are balanced for) and yellow is odd to me but is improved-just not sure for what i'd use it......

    (half seond rate dps LM half beta heals LM is what it feels like to me-not realy like a captain or a rk- as it is very aoe damage/group heal based.)
    edited cause I confused myself
    Dernière modification par Calta ; 07/11/2013 à 02h22.

    And the minstrel sang to them……”and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.”

 

 
Page 30 sur 45 PremièrePremière ... 20 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 40 ... DernièreDernière

Règles de messages

  • Vous ne pouvez pas créer de nouvelles discussions
  • Vous ne pouvez pas envoyer des réponses
  • Vous ne pouvez pas envoyer des pièces jointes
  • Vous ne pouvez pas modifier vos messages
  •  

La session de ce formulaire a expiré. Vous devez recharger la page.

Recharger