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Discussion: Kinship Themes

  1. #26
    Date d'inscription
    mai 2007
    Messages
    3

    Re: Kinship Themes

    Saesa,

    I was being sarcastic with the mission statement in reference to many christian mission statements I've read....lowest form of wit but it's still wit.

    Hey! thanks for the clarity!

    Quidpro

  2. #27
    Date d'inscription
    mai 2007
    Messages
    1 531

    Re: Kinship Themes

    Citation Envoyé par Quidpro Voir le message
    Saesa,

    I was being sarcastic with the mission statement in reference to many christian mission statements I've read....lowest form of wit but it's still wit.

    Hey! thanks for the clarity!

    Quidpro
    Ahh, my apologies. I thought it was a Daniel Dennett/Richard Dawkins reference.



    BTW, nice handle. In another game, I had an entire family of "Quos", Miranda, Status and Quidpro.
    Dernière modification par Saesa ; 22/05/2007 à 21h06.

  3. #28
    Date d'inscription
    mai 2007
    Messages
    3

    Re: Kinship Themes

    Citation Envoyé par Saesa Voir le message
    Ahh, my apologies. I thought it was a Daniel Dennett/Richard Dawkins reference.



    BTW, nice handle. In another game, I had an entire family of "Quos", Miranda, Status and Quidpro.
    I would've quoted Dawkins but someone, I'm sure, would've said that's anti-religous...unsure why (sarcasm is easier when spoken heh).

    Family of "Quo's" very nice indeed!

    Quidpro

    I suppose I could make "Quidpro Quo of the Quickpost Kinship of Qualophobes!" mmmm
    Dernière modification par Quidpro ; 23/05/2007 à 10h16.

  4. #29
    Date d'inscription
    mai 2007
    Messages
    1 531

    Re: Kinship Themes

    Quid - tell you what. You post up some Dawkins and I'll sit here with a stopwatch to time the /report, 'kay?

    (kidding, totally and completely kidding!)

  5. #30
    Date d'inscription
    mai 2007
    Messages
    82

    Re: Kinship Themes

    Citation Envoyé par Tsion Voir le message

    -Please DO be sure to let any prospective members know that profanity, lewd speech, inappropriate behavior and bashing or defaming of the shared Christian theme and its associated sacred values and terms (God, Jesus Christ, prayer, the Bible, the Cross, etc) will NOT be tolerated and will be grounds for dismissal from the kinship.
    I'm not sure you can get away with this actually, in part it depends on whether expression of dissent gets counted as defaming. You couldn't boot someone for say "I believe in Allah, not Christ", for example, any more than you could boot them for saying they were of a particular race. Even if they say it loudly and often, dismissing them for it would be religious discrimination and prohibited by the EULA. I doubt you could even get away with booting them for trashing the bible pretty severely, as long as the weren't using vulgarity or making fun of Christians. You can't dismiss them for the mere expression of beliefs regarding religious topics.

    Bottom line is that if members are allowed to "bash and defame" other religions, agnosticism, or atheism, then members cannot be dismissed for "bashing and defaming" the "Christian theme and its associated sacred values and terms."

    In short, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

  6. #31
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2010
    Messages
    210

    Re: Kinship Themes

    My impression is that kinships and fellowships are completely voluntary. You can kick anyone you want for any reason.

    I believe the "rule," though, is just that you can't advertise a kinship that only accepts people that are <whatever> or accepts everyone except those that are <whatever>, where <whatever> refers to the things already listed out too many times: race, religion, ethnicity, whatever.

    Kind of a non issue still, though. If someone actually felt they were kicked on unjust grounds, why would they want to be in such a group in the first place?
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/silverlode/eve/"]Eve[/URL] of Silverlode (65 Guardian)
    Zatherine of Brandywine (44 Guardian, Angmar Closed Beta)
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/06205000000000500/01008/signature.png]Eve[/charsig]

  7. #32
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2007
    Localisation
    Vancouver, BC
    Messages
    115

    Re: Kinship Themes

    Citation Envoyé par Saesa Voir le message
    Quid - tell you what. You post up some Dawkins and I'll sit here with a stopwatch to time the /report, 'kay?

    (kidding, totally and completely kidding!)
    Hilarious, I was considering starting a "Reason and critical thinking" Kinship called "Order of the Lucid Eye" or just "Lucidai" on Brandywine, but wasn't sure if I would get any interest... with people defending atheism here and mentioning Dawkins, maybe... heh.

  8. #33
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2007
    Localisation
    Los Angeles
    Messages
    920

    Re: Kinship Themes

    kinda wacky to see what some guardhouse lawyers think up lol
    ps dawkins is not anti-religion (jk)
    pps is it against the rules for me to joke around with people regarding short fat dwarves (jk again)

  9. #34
    Date d'inscription
    avril 2007
    Localisation
    Bitteroot Valley, Montana
    Messages
    106

    Re: Kinship Themes

    This is all good and fine. But, let's say that kinship x has a theme and said theme has written in it's laws that they are to not have anything to do with anyone not belonging to that theme. And also written in that theme's laws they are told that it's okay to not only discriminate against but, also to kill any who do not follow their theme. What if said theme has written in their laws that their "leader" is known for and responcible for destroying entire nations of people for not following said theme? Would that kinship still be allowed to exist?

    I say that any and all kinships theme's must be within Tolkein lore or there will be trouble.

  10. #35
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2010
    Messages
    210

    Re: Kinship Themes

    Your first paragraph describes stuff that likely would not be accepted and would be against the rules. Some labels are more clear references than others to this. Those labels that would clearly connote what you describe are likely censored on this board.

    The second paragraph does not at all follow the first. That's a completely separate and non-related argument.

    I'd love to see more RP enforcement on both player names and kinship themes, but there are vicious grey areas all around and it's hard to draw the line.
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/silverlode/eve/"]Eve[/URL] of Silverlode (65 Guardian)
    Zatherine of Brandywine (44 Guardian, Angmar Closed Beta)
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/06205000000000500/01008/signature.png]Eve[/charsig]

  11. #36
    Date d'inscription
    février 2007
    Messages
    69

    Re: Kinship Themes

    Citation Envoyé par Saesa Voir le message
    Ahh, my apologies. I thought it was a Daniel Dennett/Richard Dawkins reference.
    Richard Dawkins, wasn't he the host of the Family Feud?
    This forum requires that you wait 20 seconds between searches. Please try again in 116 seconds.

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0420800000000d302/01006/signature.png]Mereniel[/charsig]

  12. #37
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2007
    Messages
    11

    Re: Kinship Themes

    Hi, Baruk Kazahd (Strictly a PVE kinship) is recruiting mature and active members right now... we have a ventrilo server up and running at al times... friendly group of ppl to play with and a great website where all the updates of the game and the kinship is posted... the leaders of this kinship have been guild leaders of some of the top guilds on world of warcraft so u should know that ur in good hands... if u would like to apply to play in this kinship please go ingame on NIMRODEL server and contact one of the leads.

    Kinship Lord: Trinista
    MightyMidget
    Zerina

    Second in command: Dragonhert

    Officers: CactusJack
    Durgrin
    Thoromur
    Thunderhammer
    Thurathelion

    the kinship website URL is www.barukkazahd.com
    Please register on the forums (mandatory)

  13. #38
    Date d'inscription
    janvier 2007
    Localisation
    Springfield, VA
    Messages
    178

    Re: Kinship Themes

    Citation Envoyé par Im_Mereniel Voir le message
    Richard Dawkins, wasn't he the host of the Family Feud?
    Richard DAWSON (sp???) hosted the Family Feud...hehe...
    [u]Ironfist Rangers, Silverlode[/u] -- Zorric, Man Captain (Founder)/Zorrah, Woman Loremaster/Zorrin, Elf Hunter/Zorrgrim, Dwarf Guardian/Zorrdo, Hobbit Burglar
    [u]Grave Walkers, Firefoot[/u] -- Suhrenitee, Woman Captain/Zorrfist, Dwarf Champion/Kaywhinnet, Woman Minstrel/Zorrik, Man Warden/Rivver, Elf Runekeeper

  14. #39
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2007
    Localisation
    Land of OZ
    Messages
    151

    Re: Kinship Themes

    *****bump*****

  15. #40
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2007
    Messages
    25

    Re: Kinship Themes

    I have agreed to the EULA and will abide by it. However I can't let this pass without comment.

    I realize that Turbine is just trying to keep the peace with these rules but it is still absurd. If people want to have a kinship of one legged, black, Jewish people who follow Hinduism and only invite such people to the kinship, what does it matter? Is it somehow holier to make the criteria just "well we just don't like you" and deny membership based upon that?

    People of all walks of life feel more comfortable with others who are similar, whether or not this is a cultural, religious, or other similarity. That is why they congregate together. If someone wants to have a Jewish kinship and only invite orthodox Jews for example, how does this hurt anyone? Inside of their kinship they then know that they have this in common and don't have to feel the need to tiptoe around others who are not Jewish so as not to offend or even feel the need to explain Hebrew catch phases to the newbie. (Are there Hebrew catch phrases? Still you get the point.)

    It seems to me that the rules governing free speech are taken to an extreme in this case. I think most people understand why profanity is filtered by default, and that Turbine is not going to let a kinship called, "Nazi White Power Racists" exist on their servers. This offends the majority of people in the world. Majority rules. But that different than saying you can't deny membership based upon a kinship theme. You know what? An atheist who is allowed to join a Christian themed kinship and becomes offended, joined that kinship specifically to get offended and cause trouble. If I don't speak German or live in Germany, I know that a German kinship is not going to work out for me. Why should they be forced to allow me in if they know that the point of the kinship would be lost on an English speaking person from the USA? Why should their right to be selective about their membership be curtailed simply for some sophomoric idealism that states I should be MADE to fit in, despite the theme.

    Yes this is a small issue and no I won't have any problems following the guidelines laid out by Turbine. But it should be noted that Turbine's efforts to go to such lengths to not offend anyone has failed. I am offended. Online gaming is my way of letting off steam after a hard day in a politically correct corporate environment. I don't like the fact that I have to worry about who might be offended in a virtual world.

  16. #41
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2010
    Messages
    210

    Re: Kinship Themes

    This thread serves as a good reminder to people's obliviousness in much of what they say.

    It's much simpler than you discuss; it's simply that openly saying you don't want X in your kinship is strongly implying that X is bad. But it's a fundamental rule for respect towards your fellow human beings that things falling into category X (go back some pages if you missed the examples) do NOT make people desirable or undesirable.

    There's also the simple fact that you're discriminating based on a real-life demographic that you're rather powerless to actually verify - the very verification of which would not be proper.

    It's not in who you deem worthy. You can decide to exclude any group you feel like. Just keep the reason to yourself if it's based on bigotry lest you insult a massive chunk of the planet's population by a statement you intend to throw at a single individual.
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/silverlode/eve/"]Eve[/URL] of Silverlode (65 Guardian)
    Zatherine of Brandywine (44 Guardian, Angmar Closed Beta)
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/06205000000000500/01008/signature.png]Eve[/charsig]

  17. #42
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2007
    Messages
    25

    Re: Kinship Themes

    I have agreed to the EULA and will abide by it. However I can't let this pass without comment.

    I realize that Turbine is just trying to keep the peace with these rules but it is still absurd. If people want to have a kinship of one legged, black, Jewish people who follow Hinduism and only invite such people to the kinship, what does it matter? Is it somehow holier to make the criteria just "well we just don't like you" and deny membership based upon that?

    People of all walks of life feel more comfortable with others who are similar, whether or not this is a cultural, religious, or other similarity. That is why they congregate together. If someone wants to have a Jewish kinship and only invite orthodox Jews for example, how does this hurt anyone? Inside of their kinship they then know that they have this in common and don't have to feel the need to tiptoe around others who are not Jewish so as not to offend or even feel the need to explain Hebrew catch phases to the newbie. (Are there Hebrew catch phrases? Still you get the point.)

    It seems to me that the rules governing free speech are taken to an extreme in this case. I think most people understand why profanity is filtered by default, and that Turbine is not going to let a kinship called, "Nazi White Power Racists" exist on their servers. This offends the majority of people in the world. Majority rules. But that different than saying you can't deny membership based upon a kinship theme. You know what? An atheist who is allowed to join a Christian themed kinship and becomes offended, joined that kinship specifically to get offended and cause trouble. If I don't speak German or live in Germany, I know that a German kinship is not going to work out for me. Why should they be forced to allow me in if they know that the point of the kinship would be lost on an English speaking person from the USA? Why should their right to be selective about their membership be curtailed simply for some sophomoric idealism that states I should be MADE to fit in, despite the theme.

    Yes this is a small issue and no I won't have any problems following the guidelines laid out by Turbine. But it should be noted that Turbine's efforts to go to such lengths to not offend anyone has failed. I am offended. Online gaming is my way of letting off steam after a hard day in a politically correct corporate environment. I don't like the fact that I have to worry about who might be offended in a virtual world.

  18. #43
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2007
    Messages
    109

    Re: Kinship Themes

    Citation Envoyé par War_Council Voir le message
    Yes this is a small issue and no I won't have any problems following the guidelines laid out by Turbine. But it should be noted that Turbine's efforts to go to such lengths to not offend anyone has failed. I am offended. Online gaming is my way of letting off steam after a hard day in a politically correct corporate environment. I don't like the fact that I have to worry about who might be offended in a virtual world.
    It's not an issue of avoiding offending people. It's an issue of avoiding the inevitable and almost impossible to win lawsuits.

  19. #44
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2007
    Messages
    251

    Re: Kinship Themes

    Citation Envoyé par Bruiserk Voir le message
    Ok, what if you wanted to start a kinship that didn't allow illegal aliens? Would that fall under the nationality restriction, since you're only allowing people of your nation in?
    This is the first of many holes in your - and the entire 'open border' crowd's argument. The keyword is legality versus illegality, not alien versus citizen. An anti-illegal alien rule is not an anti alien rule. Let's agree to not discuss this further, as it would violate the forum rules of not discussing politics.


    Citation Envoyé par Bruiserk Voir le message
    If that's so, what if you ... people from other countries are allowed in, but only if they are living in the country...
    I see no reasonable excuse for making one's RL immigration status a requirement, or disqualification, for membership in an IG organization as such status in no way affects said IG organization.

    Building on the example set forth by various replies above: If I run a Christian themed kinship and a Satanist, Wiccan, Atheist, or other 'non-Christian' wants to join, having them in the kinship poses no threat unless they act in a manner which is disrespectful to Christians.

    And yes, I do practice what I preach. I am a self-professed homophobe (though it has nothing to do with the kinship theme) and yet our kinship has openly gay/lesbian members. I can, and often do speak in Kinchat about my fiance; therefore, I have no problem with a homosexual in OAK speaking about their partner. Just so long as they dont say anything hateful about straight people, it is none of my business - nor anyone else's - what goes on outside of Middle Earth.

  20. #45
    Date d'inscription
    mai 2008
    Messages
    11

    Question Re: Kinship Themes

    On a more general note, if I'm looking for a Kinship by theme, (i.e Christian, Hobbit, U.S West Coast, etc.) is there a way I can do that?

  21. #46
    Date d'inscription
    février 2007
    Messages
    31

    Re: Kinship Themes

    Discussion of Religion and/or Politics is against the forums ToS - See the first post?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0220400000000123f/01003/signature.png]Sargo[/charsig]
    AMD Phenom II 820 X4 core 2.6 Ghz * ATI Radeon HD4850X2 * 8 GB DDR3 Ram
    M-Audio Revolution 7.1 Sound * 4x Seagate Savvio HDDs (73GB 15k rpm)(RAID0 Config) * Maxtor Sata HDD (1 TB 7200rpm) x4

  22. #47
    Date d'inscription
    novembre 2010
    Localisation
    1 highspires st Thekksgrof
    Messages
    553

    Re: Kinship Themes

    WAIT!.........................
    .............................. ...
    .............................. ...


    .............................. ...
    .............................. ...
    .............................. ...


    I can say no when it comes to recruiting?



    /sarcasm off.

  23. #48
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    6

    Cool Re: Kinship Themes

    My kinship is good and big (invite my kinship)!!!!!

  24. #49
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    6

    Thumbs up Re: Kinship Themes

    my kinship is a good and big(join my kinship)!!!!!!

  25. #50
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    6

    Thumbs up Re: Kinship Themes

    The commonwealth of thieves!!!! (join)

 

 
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