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Discussion: Best Bleed/DOT Class?

  1. #1
    Date d'inscription
    mai 2007
    Messages
    149

    Best Bleed/DOT Class?

    I'm a new warden having played champion and guardian in the past. I'm very confused about the secondary role of the warden being dps and just how effective it is in raids. Many of the posts here point to the fact that there's a "capped" limit on the warden's DPS of about 3k and how that is substandard. I'd like to be able to switch from tank to DPS as well as an RK can switch from healing to DPS.

    Is that even possible with wardens in their current state? Do they currently have the best bleeds / DOTs in the game as well?

  2. #2
    Date d'inscription
    août 2007
    Messages
    3 595
    Citation Envoyé par Andrys Voir le message
    I'm a new warden having played champion and guardian in the past. I'm very confused about the secondary role of the warden being dps and just how effective it is in raids. Many of the posts here point to the fact that there's a "capped" limit on the warden's DPS of about 3k and how that is substandard. I'd like to be able to switch from tank to DPS as well as an RK can switch from healing to DPS.

    Is that even possible with wardens in their current state? Do they currently have the best bleeds / DOTs in the game as well?
    I've never seen a parse from a fire rk, but I would strongly bet wardens have the strongest overall bleeds/dots in the game. The best DoTs in this game does not equate to the best DPS however. A Great DPS warden will be better than an average hunter/burg/champ, and about even with a good one, but a great one of any of those classes will handily out-do a warden on dps. Also, while there are minor other differences, an RK going from healing to dps basically changes LIs and retraits (swaps armour bonuses too, i suppose). A tanking class swapping to dps and expecting to dps competently, must change every single item in their inventory, so it is a much more involved process.

    Significantly higher than 3k dps is very possible for a warden, though the amount of wardens who can hit this is positively miniscule compared to the number of people who can do this from other classes.

    Warden dps is further hampered by its lack of utility. In my opinion, recklessness offers a meaningful advantage in dps over assailment, but requires a target to have enough morale to last at least 30 seconds to fully realize this dps potential. Recklessness can be very good for dps, but is a bit clunky, and the nature of damage from assailment is still not ideal for low morale targets (though definitely better than recklessness).

    tl;dr best DoTs =/= best dps.

  3. #3
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2009
    Localisation
    St Louis Mo
    Messages
    1 999
    Citation Envoyé par Andrys Voir le message
    I'd like to be able to switch from tank to DPS as well as an RK can switch from healing to DPS.

    Is that even possible with wardens in their current state? Do they currently have the best bleeds / DOTs in the game as well?
    The first line is your problem. YOU would like it. Turbine however, just gave us a secondary DPS role because in a six man group with a guard, or, for a long time in raids with two guards, no one wanted/needed a warden tank. So, recklessness and a$$ailment were added to give us some value. However, on landscape solo, Recklessness was awesome to kill mobs faster.

    BTW, to add to the above poster, my Red traited Loremasters burst AE DPS on 10 mobs at a time puts even the best single target dps of my Red traited warden to shame.

  4. #4
    Date d'inscription
    août 2007
    Messages
    3 595
    Citation Envoyé par Darlgon Voir le message
    The first line is your problem. YOU would like it. Turbine however, just gave us a secondary DPS role because in a six man group with a guard, or, for a long time in raids with two guards, no one wanted/needed a warden tank. So, recklessness and a$$ailment were added to give us some value. However, on landscape solo, Recklessness was awesome to kill mobs faster.

    BTW, to add to the above poster, my Red traited Loremasters burst AE DPS on 10 mobs at a time puts even the best single target dps of my Red traited warden to shame.
    Your red traited loremaster's burst AoE dps should put a champion to shame for 10-20 seconds, i'm not sure of the relevance. I'd bet in a 2 minute parse a warden would be quite competitive with an LM on 10 targets (if actually set up for AoE, of course).

    Regarding the comparison to RKs from you and the OP, at this time, no one is doubting the effectiveness of a warden or rk as main-tank, or main-healer compared to the traditional Guards and Minstrels. I'd further bet that when fullfilling dps roles, while they each have their advantages, I'd bet equally skilled/geared rks and wardens are about on par for dps, falling somewhat behind the primary dps classes (champ, burg, hunter). I think they are in very similar positions, its just that there are about 100x the competent rk dpsers as wardens.
    Dernière modification par spelunker ; 05/08/2013 à 10h54.

  5. #5
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2009
    Localisation
    St Louis Mo
    Messages
    1 999
    Citation Envoyé par spelunker Voir le message
    Your red traited loremaster's burst AoE dps should put a champion to shame for 10-20 seconds, i'm not sure of the relevance. I'd bet in a 2 minute parse a warden would be quite competitive with an LM on 10 targets (if actually set up for AoE, of course).

    Regarding the comparison to RKs from you and the OP, at this time, no one is doubting the effectiveness of a warden or rk as main-tank, or main-healer compared to the traditional Guards and Minstrels. I'd further bet that when fullfilling dps roles, while they each have their advantages, I'd bet equally skilled/geared rks and wardens are about on par for dps, falling somewhat behind the primary dps classes (champ, burg, hunter). I think they are in very similar positions, its just that there are about 100x the competent rk dpsers as wardens.
    I dont necessarily disagree, but I point you to this threads header:

    Citation Envoyé par Andrys Voir le message
    My LM trumps my warden on that because, I have more DoTs, that crit more. The list?
    Instacast SoB Wizards Fire (243 initial, 243/s for 5 ticks over 10 sec),
    3s cooldown Burning Embers (1607 initial, 422/s for 5 ticks over 10 sec),
    30s cooldown ISG (5 targets, hits each, 2208 initial and 482/s for 26 seconds)

    Then add:
    5 min cooldown Lightning Storm (5 targets, 3 strikes on each of 2203) (kinda a DoT, since it is not all on initial)

    Next, the companion, who is not really anything but a DoT.

    Hmm.. Never mind, I may have actually made the case for the warden being the better bleed class with that stacking bleed stuff Orion introduced.

 

 

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