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  1. #1
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2011
    Messages
    315

    Guide to Mounted Group Combat -- Does it Exists?

    Sorry, tried all sorts of searches.

    Has anyone written a guide to best strategies, formations, etc for group mounted combat?

    For example, lets say you have a group of 1 captain, 1 guardian. 1 minstrel and 1 hunter . What would be the tactics to take on a mounted warband?

    For example, what does the hunter do? Does the hunter try and follow the guardian? Try and follow the main target but stay at range?

    Hopefully someone wrote something I could read.
    “[I]It will never work, change always makes things worse, and Turbine doesn’t care about us anyway…[/I].” Eeyore
    “[I]But maybe it will have honey or even something better[/I]!!” -- Pooh

  2. #2
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Belgium
    Messages
    583
    I haven't seen much grouping besides randomly doing warbands together. There are no group instances or mounted skirmishes. I hope mounted group content comes with Helms Deep.
    [B][U]Gilrain:[/U] [COLOR="red"]Dobric 98 guardian[/COLOR][/B] [COLOR="yellow"]Dobli 30 minstrel[/COLOR] [COLOR="cyan"]Dimbli 18 dwarf champion[/COLOR] [COLOR=#8B4513]Dobriel 15 loremaster[/COLOR]| [B][U]Snowbourn:[/U] [COLOR="orange"]Dobs 100 burglar[/COLOR][/B] [COLOR="yellowgreen"]Dorblin 42 runekeeper[/COLOR] [COLOR="#EE82EE"]Dabeldor 21 captain[/COLOR] [COLOR="#3366ff"]Dobegar 21 hunter[/COLOR] [COLOR="lightgreen"]Dobebrand 17 warden[/COLOR]

  3. #3
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2007
    Messages
    8 694
    It's pretty simple though. Basically you do a lot of DPS. There really isn't any tanking because none of the tank classes have any chance at holding aggro. The most you can do is temporarily force an enemy to attack you instead of others.

    So the overall strategy is to DPS everything fast. Leave the boss until last and chew up all those adds who are overall more dangerous. Focus fire on the adds will help. The first person to be seen will get all the aggro at the start and this can be very tough, so it's best to have a heavy steed or heavy armor class move in first and then start circling.

    Every member should use whatever special auxillary skils that they have to provide benefit to the group. IE, root some enemies, put on debuffs, provide small heals to nearby members, things like that.

  4. #4
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    1 544
    Have one person (class doesn't matter much) hold aggro on the warband boss while the rest of the group kills the adds and stays alive, eventually have the mini or rk pop some heals if needed (shouldn't be necessary with a good group though). There isn't really any tactic required (or even useful) for MC. Rubberbanding and lag would prevent it too.
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
    Playing now: Hellcat / King Tiger / GW Panther / IS / KV-5 / M4 Sherman and more

  5. #5
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2010
    Messages
    20
    Grouping for a Warband? Isn't that oxy-moronic?

    Okay - I apologize - but I had to say it because Warsteeds and groups don't seem to work so well. The more action you get in an area (both players and NPC's count) the harder it is to stop sailing sideways across half the map.

    Like the others all said - everyone dps like crazy - what? We all have different skills? Prove it! We sort of have different animations but they all do basically the same thing.

  6. #6
    Date d'inscription
    novembre 2010
    Messages
    143
    Pretty much as what was said above, turbine needs to make Tanking possible.

    I can see they kind of worked on it with Wardens, finally giving us an area attack and a small
    threat skill. Coupled with the heavy steed's threat skill, you can totally hold aggro. But only from
    a single mob, not a group. But if you can get your warden to run in first, do as many spams
    of the area attack as possible, and -nobody- else do any heals on him or area attacks of their own,
    then it could work out. But that seems like a broken system.

    Just give tanks proper threats on warsteeds, and give some -real- instance/skirmish challenges.
    Until then, no, there really is no group content.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000046ddaa/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  7. #7
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2011
    Messages
    315
    hmm... There really should be some way to make mounted combat a little more group friendly/interesting.

    Question: How does auto follow work when mounted?

    Assuming that auto follow works when mounted (i.e. doesn't go nuts because of lag, or other issues)... then perhaps a new type of auto follow might make mounted group combat more interesting?

    /followfixed. This command would not only cause a player to follow a player but to keep the same distance and relative position to the player being followed.

    Now a group could decide on an optimum formation and perhaps (with some skill revamps) it could lead to mounted combat strategies.

    Relative position would use two parameters:

    1) Clock position to player being followed with 12 positions (1 through 12) (player being followed is in middle of clock and they are facing 12 O'clock.

    2) Distance in Metres with a maximum distance of 40 metres.

    It would also have the advantage of allowing the players following to concentrate more on their skills than desperately trying to follow the mobs around.

    Anyway .. its an idea at least .. I'm sure there are a lot of holes.
    “[I]It will never work, change always makes things worse, and Turbine doesn’t care about us anyway…[/I].” Eeyore
    “[I]But maybe it will have honey or even something better[/I]!!” -- Pooh

  8. #8
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2007
    Messages
    8 694
    Citation Envoyé par Akotah Voir le message
    Just give tanks proper threats on warsteeds, and give some -real- instance/skirmish challenges.
    Until then, no, there really is no group content.
    And self heals too, morale and power. Granted with a lot of morale and heavy steeds it's not so bad, but relying on a rare critical on a skill with a cooldown doesn't cut it, and other players don't have good heals for others that I've seen (plus the fact that everyone is moving in and out of range often). My guardian essentially uses the tactic to dismount and quickly remount to get morale/power back for the steed.

    Other classes can just be insane with their damage output, there's just no way to compensate without high threat skills. My lore master entered a Bugud fight where he was 2/3rds down already, and still managed to steal the aggro before the end! Plus with a reliable self heal, the lore master could be a better tank than guardian here.

  9. #9
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2007
    Messages
    8 694
    Citation Envoyé par SavinDwarf Voir le message
    Question: How does auto follow work when mounted?
    You bunch up close basically. That's how most of the Wildermore mounted raids are working now. Most people follow the same person and fire on what's nearby or use target assist when it's too confusing because of all the trees or snow or lag). This is really handy for ranged classes, but for melee only mounted combat I presume you just have to keep up with the cluster of green dots on the map, and in some areas just give up on doing any attacks because you can't maneuver (balewood). This tactic would be better in other parts of Rohan I think where you actually have open plains.

  10. #10
    Date d'inscription
    mars 2011
    Messages
    667
    Here is the tactic I have seen used to great effect on warbands. Slaughter adds then dogpile on the boss. Haven't failed a warband yet. Basic principle is keep your distance and don't let the boss get a chance to run at you or they will one shot your horse and unless you're a tank you won't be getting back on your horse.
    Welleg - brandywine, Kelleg/Gelleg - Landroval
    WARNING: leveling a warden may cause you to neglect your other characters.

  11. #11
    Date d'inscription
    novembre 2010
    Messages
    143
    Citation Envoyé par Lohi Voir le message
    And self heals too, morale and power. Granted with a lot of morale and heavy steeds it's not so bad, but relying on a rare critical on a skill with a cooldown doesn't cut it, and other players don't have good heals for others that I've seen (plus the fact that everyone is moving in and out of range often). My guardian essentially uses the tactic to dismount and quickly remount to get morale/power back for the steed.

    Other classes can just be insane with their damage output, there's just no way to compensate without high threat skills. My lore master entered a Bugud fight where he was 2/3rds down already, and still managed to steal the aggro before the end! Plus with a reliable self heal, the lore master could be a better tank than guardian here.
    I can't speak for Guardians, but warden's self heals are absolutely fine. Feels OP as-is. And I do believe other classes - if the tanks keep threat - could work out power-restores easily. I know the Captain and Runekeeper can easily restore the power of others, so that job would be up to them. (The LM as well, to a lesser extent)

    And in regards to self power restores (again, only speaking for wardens), the medium and light steed make maintaining power through even the longest fights easy enough, without a need to dismount. The only problem with that is, as I said, you need to be on a heavy steed to lock threat from a single target.

    If they just simply give tanks effective multi-target threat, then it would free the other classes to do their job for the group.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000046ddaa/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  12. #12
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2007
    Messages
    8 694
    Citation Envoyé par Akotah Voir le message
    I can't speak for Guardians, but warden's self heals are absolutely fine.
    They're miserable on Guardian. Only happens with a critical, on a skill with a cooldown, and melee only. Compare to my lore master, same cooldown on the main heal skill but it always hits and can be hit from range, plus an extra healing debuff you can put on the enemy, plus two more skills with long cooldowns (from trait trees, not sure) where I can nearly fully regain power or morale. The only nice thing about the guardian is that I have so much morale that if I'm dismounted I have plenty of time to remount even with all of Bugud's minions stepping on me.

    Sure there are others who may be able to supply the healing, but it doesn't happen today, and it certainly doesn't help soloing. When tehre is a healing it tends to be only for those in range, and it doesn't seem like good game play to have the healer role use /follow on the tank to be sure to be in range.

  13. #13
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2012
    Messages
    119
    Citation Envoyé par SavinDwarf Voir le message
    Sorry, tried all sorts of searches.

    Has anyone written a guide to best strategies, formations, etc for group mounted combat?

    For example, lets say you have a group of 1 captain, 1 guardian. 1 minstrel and 1 hunter . What would be the tactics to take on a mounted warband?

    For example, what does the hunter do? Does the hunter try and follow the guardian? Try and follow the main target but stay at range?

    Hopefully someone wrote something I could read.
    Mounted combat was so badly designed that making any sort of group gameplay around it would be pointless.
    Besides they can’t even put any thought into the new raid cluster imagine mounted grouped content, 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2, 3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3 “You have Defeated “sdfsdfsd”

  14. #14
    Date d'inscription
    décembre 2010
    Messages
    123
    I do warband hunts with my kin frequently. It's a lot of fun as a group. Granted the solo warbands are a little too easy with a group but others are raid level and the only way to get them is with a group. There are also some pop up quests, especially around cliving that are good for groups.

    And there are group tactics that can be employed. A couple of examples would be: With a large warband, have a couple riders go in first and get the mobs circling in on direction, then the champs and guards circle the other direction to hit the mobs head on. This gives them time to build fury and the head on damage is greater. For warbands that have a lot of unmounted minions, have someone go in and draw agro and pull the mobs in a straight line toward the heavy riders who then plow through them using trample. The flying/bouncing mobs, like so much popcorn, always gives me a chuckle.

    I would like to see some instances for mounted group combat. And it might be nice to have those Elder King symbols drop in them. Or maybe 10 seals? I really hope to see this in Helmsdeep.

  15. #15
    Date d'inscription
    octobre 2013
    Messages
    87
    Citation Envoyé par Dranoel_Dragon Voir le message
    I do warband hunts with my kin frequently. It's a lot of fun as a group. Granted the solo warbands are a little too easy with a group but others are raid level and the only way to get them is with a group. There are also some pop up quests, especially around cliving that are good for groups.

    And there are group tactics that can be employed. A couple of examples would be: With a large warband, have a couple riders go in first and get the mobs circling in on direction, then the champs and guards circle the other direction to hit the mobs head on. This gives them time to build fury and the head on damage is greater. For warbands that have a lot of unmounted minions, have someone go in and draw agro and pull the mobs in a straight line toward the heavy riders who then plow through them using trample. The flying/bouncing mobs, like so much popcorn, always gives me a chuckle.

    I would like to see some instances for mounted group combat. And it might be nice to have those Elder King symbols drop in them. Or maybe 10 seals? I really hope to see this in Helmsdeep.

    I know if this was implemented in Helms Deep I wouldn't get it and probably leave the game for good. I wouldn't think I would be the only one. It seems they got it right for a couple of classes(hunter/champ/warden) but for the rest of the classes it's very bad,very, very bad, and in my case(guard) horrible. I for one am very grateful it is dying off and not instituted in raids/instances. I don't want to be locked out of raid content because it requires MC.
    Mean what you say and say what you mean! If you don't there are always consequences!

 

 

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