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  1. #2551
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    UK
    Messages
    389
    A Movie About the Lag
    ------------------------------

    Well here we are, a little movie with some instances of lag, different examples of it, different effects and problems that it causes. I've only frapsed a handful of movies from the Ettens over the last few years or so, I mainly used it to record by kin's raid progression, from Watcher through to ToO etc, but occasionally in the Moors as well. Even looking back at some old clips I made, the lag is there. But it is more serious now I feel, so last few days and weeks I've been frapsing whatever I could to capture the lag. Lol usually the lag is already over by the time I hit the fraps button. But I recorded a few - including that monster lag spike at DG a few nights ago.

    So here it is:


  2. #2552
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2011
    Messages
    412
    Citation Envoyé par Gwyndor Voir le message
    A Movie About the Lag
    ------------------------------
    Haha 4:50 xD
    P.S. Turn of the names over the head m8, that is problem too
    Chieftain Mreza, Kokosovo mleko Chieftain (Rank 12 weaver)
    Brekka Crixus of Eldar, Potomci Numenora, Evernight (Ex Lazareva vojska)

    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  3. #2553
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    926
    Citation Envoyé par BrekkaSrbenda Voir le message
    So, *LAG* vs *Revealing who your RAT is* (and creeps healing through you), and you choose lag. OK. I do not.
    Why dont you heal through our RAT when you know it? Its too easy or..?
    I don't believe that targeting directly or through the RAT is the answer.

    I have been in raids where skill lag made it impossible to play in all of the following situations:

    * One RAT and everyone targeting through them
    * One RAT and everyone targeting the target directly
    * Multiple RATS
    * No RATs

    I've also had huge skill lag when I wasn't even *in* the raid and was just in the middle of a huge fight.

    There is just no correlation between RAT approach and skill lag. There *is* a correlation between raw number of characters on the screen and skill lag.

    Now, I *do* believe that targeting a character with loads of effects on them cause *local lag* ie it stresses your system. This is easy to tell - does your FPS drop? If it does, it's over-stressing your system.

    The lag Turbine needs to sort out is when you have (1) 0% loss and <100ms latency (=rock steady connection), (2) steady 40+ FPS (=rock steady system) and yet you *still* get huge skill delay. That is server lag. That is what has been killing action.
    [CENTER]Tarmas Elf Champion R13 | Tarmeg Elf Guardian R6 | Tarmil 95 Elf Warden | Tarmun Elf Hunter R6 | Tarmot Elf Minstrel R6 | Tarmyr Elf Loremaster R6
    Strawn Reaver R6 | Strawz Warg R6 | Strawk Blackarrow R6 | Strawx Warleader R6 | Strawb Defiler R6 | Strawt Weaver R6[/CENTER]

  4. #2554
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    926
    Citation Envoyé par Gwyndor Voir le message
    Well here we are, a little movie with some instances of lag, different examples of it, different effects and problems that it causes.
    Some epic server lag there, especially the bit around 5:00.

    You are also running with very low FPS in some of these fights and there's stuff you could do to help that - you don't need to see every single special effect for example, nor have full names/titles/kinships on (I only ever run with just first names up).
    [CENTER]Tarmas Elf Champion R13 | Tarmeg Elf Guardian R6 | Tarmil 95 Elf Warden | Tarmun Elf Hunter R6 | Tarmot Elf Minstrel R6 | Tarmyr Elf Loremaster R6
    Strawn Reaver R6 | Strawz Warg R6 | Strawk Blackarrow R6 | Strawx Warleader R6 | Strawb Defiler R6 | Strawt Weaver R6[/CENTER]

  5. #2555
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    UK
    Messages
    389
    Citation Envoyé par Tarmas_Eldar Voir le message
    Some epic server lag there, especially the bit around 5:00.

    You are also running with very low FPS in some of these fights and there's stuff you could do to help that - you don't need to see every single special effect for example, nor have full names/titles/kinships on (I only ever run with just first names up).
    Aye indeed, and that is as Mreza said and Botoo said, due to the huge amount of "special effects, buffs/debuffs/gearswapping" etc that freeps carry - especially LM effects, they are crazy, and the worst offenders. This kind of lag IS far worse on creepside, all creeps have to suffer those conditions. Creeps just do not carry the same effects/buffs/properties, so freeps (I imagine) just don't get the same kind of problems. Not in the fraps movies I've seen of freep-perspective pvp.



    This is what I mean, these rows of buffs. By comparison a creep may have 1 row, 2 rows of effects for the combat system to compute through, so when you target me your FPS won't grind to a halt. And believe me, removing floaty names and titles/kinships has very little effect on this, in fact it seems to do sod all when trying to fight targets buffed to high heaven and back, as pictured above, which is most freep targets a lot of the time.

    So the server lag, it happens, it's the same both sides. Nothing we can do about it. The combat lag, which your system has to chug along to process, is primarily (I think) a creep problem. And to have to dial down all settings to a bare minimum quality, where it looks like you might be playing Doom circa 1998, isn't that just ****! We shouldn't bloody have to!

  6. #2556
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    926
    Citation Envoyé par Gwyndor Voir le message
    By comparison a creep may have 1 row, 2 rows of effects for the combat system to compute through, so when you target me your FPS won't grind to a halt.
    Yes, I buy that. It also explains why freep healing classes complain of combat lag more than dps classes - they are also targeting freeps with rows of buffs/debuffs.

    A lot of freeps (and, I guess, creeps too) don't do basic things like turning off debuff icons for the entire raid.

    It isn't the answer to server/skill lag and rubber-banding though. Low FPS can make life ugly, but it won't usually prevent you playing altogether and there are *some* things you can do to help yourself.

    I'm banging this "different types of lag" drum because unless players are really, really clear about the problem we're complaining about, it's easier for Turbine to ignore. A whole bunch of unrelated things, some completely outside Turbine's control, get lumped together as "lag". But the problem we have at the moment is really specific, not part of the ongoing balance between our systems/connections and the graphics demands of the game.
    [CENTER]Tarmas Elf Champion R13 | Tarmeg Elf Guardian R6 | Tarmil 95 Elf Warden | Tarmun Elf Hunter R6 | Tarmot Elf Minstrel R6 | Tarmyr Elf Loremaster R6
    Strawn Reaver R6 | Strawz Warg R6 | Strawk Blackarrow R6 | Strawx Warleader R6 | Strawb Defiler R6 | Strawt Weaver R6[/CENTER]

  7. #2557
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Netherlands
    Messages
    219
    Citation Envoyé par Tarmas_Eldar Voir le message
    and there are *some* things you can do to help yourself.
    I hope I'm not asking for too much, but is it possible you make a list of settings that reduce the lag? Which options should I disable/enable during a raid vs raid fight?

  8. #2558
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Israel
    Messages
    505
    Citation Envoyé par Wardrat Voir le message
    I hope I'm not asking for too much, but is it possible you make a list of settings that reduce the lag? Which options should I disable/enable during a raid vs raid fight?
    Just turn off effects thats not needed in the UI section of the options tab.
    [CENTER][COLOR=#008080]Chains of insanity [/COLOR][COLOR=#fff0f5]- [/COLOR][COLOR=#800080]Doom of GY Reborn [/COLOR]-[COLOR=#ff0000] FOTM[/COLOR] - [COLOR=#0000ff]WotGE[/COLOR] -[COLOR=#40e0d0] The [/COLOR][COLOR=#00ffff]Fancy Lads
    [/COLOR][COLOR=#ee82ee]Retired from LOTRO[/COLOR]

    [/CENTER]

  9. #2559
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    926
    Citation Envoyé par Wardrat Voir le message
    I hope I'm not asking for too much, but is it possible you make a list of settings that reduce the lag? Which options should I disable/enable during a raid vs raid fight?
    Well, first off I have a 77MB fibre connection, 16GB of RAM and the game installed on an SSD. That all makes a huge difference.

    In terms of settings, I:

    * turn all shadows off
    * set frill distance to 'disable'
    * uncheck distant imposters
    * turn off high quality lighting
    * turn off 3D portraits
    * set atmospherics detail to low
    * set material detail to low
    * set texture cache size to maximum
    * set player crowd quality to minimum
    * set sync to refresh rate to "auto" (there is no point asking your gfx card to pump out frames faster than your monitor refreshes)

    I always have landscape and object draw distance set to max. After that, I gradually turn down Texture Details and Texture Filtering depending on how busy the action is.

    In social options make sure "show only dispellable effects" is checked.

    In UI settings, I uncheck everything under "special effects options". This turns off a lot of ground special effects but also stops you seeing induction circles so it does have downsides. However I found this made a significant difference to my framerate.

    You need to aim for an FPS over 30. Below that and things will look choppy. At 30-40 it will be perfectly smooth. Most monitors only refresh 60 times/second so an FPS higher than that does nothing other than burn electricity and wear out your GFX card faster.
    [CENTER]Tarmas Elf Champion R13 | Tarmeg Elf Guardian R6 | Tarmil 95 Elf Warden | Tarmun Elf Hunter R6 | Tarmot Elf Minstrel R6 | Tarmyr Elf Loremaster R6
    Strawn Reaver R6 | Strawz Warg R6 | Strawk Blackarrow R6 | Strawx Warleader R6 | Strawb Defiler R6 | Strawt Weaver R6[/CENTER]

  10. #2560
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Netherlands
    Messages
    219
    Citation Envoyé par Tarmas_Eldar Voir le message
    In terms of settings, I:
    Thanks a lot! This is very helpful! Probably not just for me, I'm certain you've helped a lot more with your post.

  11. #2561
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    21
    Citation Envoyé par Tarmas_Eldar Voir le message
    In terms of settings, I:

    * turn all shadows off
    * set frill distance to 'disable'
    * uncheck distant imposters
    * turn off high quality lighting
    * turn off 3D portraits
    * set atmospherics detail to low
    * set material detail to low
    * set texture cache size to maximum
    * set player crowd quality to minimum
    * set sync to refresh rate to "auto" (there is no point asking your gfx card to pump out frames faster than your monitor refreshes)

    I always have landscape and object draw distance set to max. After that, I gradually turn down Texture Details and Texture Filtering depending on how busy the action is.

    In social options make sure "show only dispellable effects" is checked.

    In UI settings, I uncheck everything under "special effects options". This turns off a lot of ground special effects but also stops you seeing induction circles so it does have downsides. However I found this made a significant difference to my framerate.

    You need to aim for an FPS over 30. Below that and things will look choppy. At 30-40 it will be perfectly smooth. Most monitors only refresh 60 times/second so an FPS higher than that does nothing other than burn electricity and wear out your GFX card faster.
    ++++THIS

    This is a really constructive and helpful post mate. I'd like to see more posts like this on forums and less crying
    I have most of these things done already as I found a similar post a while ago with screenies as a visual guide to the things to do to help reduce lag. It certainly helped my fiance's warg experience and she now enjoys big fights rather than just slinking off to HH or logging altogether. I was going to search for it and link it after wardy's post but you beat me to it with some excellent information. I think this will help many people have a smoother and more enjoyable game.

    All we have to do now is lobby turbine to employ more hamsters and fix the server lag that is very well highlighted in Uz's video and becoming increasingly worse as updates progress and more effects are added to an already burgeoned system.

    Well done Tarmas mate.
    Goatz - Bringer of Milk, Lover of Mreza, Sniffer of Hairy Toes

  12. #2562
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    21

    Reduce Latency and Lag in the Moors: A Visual Guide

    I thought I'd link this too as some people may find it useful to be able to see the things that Tarmas is talking about.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...A-Visual-Guide

    This post, as mentioned above, really helped grumpydog's lag problems (excepting server lag, obviously).

    Enjoy.
    Goatz - Bringer of Milk, Lover of Mreza, Sniffer of Hairy Toes

  13. #2563
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    UK
    Messages
    389
    Some people were asking for it, so, from last week the fight at LC3:


  14. #2564
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    The Netherlands
    Messages
    180
    putting draw distance works nice aswell, but I would only recommend that if you DO follow the shield or the skull, and always stay closer than 10-20m to it, if u dont, u might just not be able to see them. Im this situation u will have to entrust your eyes intirely to the raid leader and the rat, therefor this option isnt rly recommended for rats nor raid leaders (or other marked persons)

    And talking about the action this eve, it was good (especially for the creeps ofc) and I hope to lead a bit more on haruno in the future, but I hope creeps realise the ON the last few weeks and I hope it doesnt encourage more freeps to flip creeps. If it does, I would like to arrange some agreements with some creep raid leaders before I forcefully have to keep all the freeps in gv as soon creeps get a ridiculous amount of players which both the server nor the freeps seem to handle well. I got some old SoA tactics in mind, which all the creeps not in the main raid really will dislike, so I hope it wont come to that

    Lets try to keep the action nice and healthy till HD will get released so we got something to do while we wait in anexiety
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i255532.iris.fhict.nl/sierra/signature.png[/IMG]


    [/CENTER]

  15. #2565
    Date d'inscription
    juillet 2011
    Messages
    412
    I know what motivates freeps to come out and play. Hate.
    You have controlled your fear. Now, release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy us.
    Than come and join us, lets ON the freep side once again, so they loose their money investment in game.



    BRING BACK THE FLAME WARS.
    Chieftain Mreza, Kokosovo mleko Chieftain (Rank 12 weaver)
    Brekka Crixus of Eldar, Potomci Numenora, Evernight (Ex Lazareva vojska)

    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  16. #2566
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    The Netherlands
    Messages
    180
    Citation Envoyé par BrekkaSrbenda Voir le message
    I know what motivates freeps to come out and play. Hate.
    You have controlled your fear. Now, release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy us.
    Than come and join us, lets ON the freep side once again, so they loose their money investment in game.



    BRING BACK THE FLAME WARS.
    we can ofc just all log creep and make 3 raids to camp solo freeps that are riding out gv
    With the current fliprate we prob only have to wait a week or so for that:
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i255532.iris.fhict.nl/sierra/signature.png[/IMG]


    [/CENTER]

  17. #2567
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    242
    Citation Envoyé par botoo Voir le message
    I saw that happening Ory, but:
    1st time you were not alone there (probs solo, but not the only freep there), I noticed you doing emote-jumps while other were fighting but you can't blame anyone if you got attacked there and then. I avoided you but even then you might got hit by an aoe.
    2nd and 3rd time you did your emote-jumping in front of OC and aggroed npc's, imho it was clear you weren't fighting with those unknown 'weapons' you wielded, but OC or Etten in itself is not the best place for doing emote dances, don't blame others if they don't want to play along with possible peaceful actions, especially not with a froup going round closeby.
    My post was meant to be lighthearted, as was my messing about with the pretzels... i found it hilarious and hope others got a bit of amusement out of it too
    Oryette

  18. #2568
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    34
    Sunday's raids

    [img]http://i.imgur.com/t4cmgLW.jpg[/img]

  19. #2569
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2011
    Messages
    262
    Citation Envoyé par Anwenil Voir le message
    Sunday's raids

    quite fun to watch really.. Wish i could play like that.. In a fight like that id be happy if skill lag below 5-10 sec!
    [url=http://postimage.org/][img]http://s29.postimg.org/jhgasj377/image.jpg[/img][/url]

  20. #2570
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Messages
    34
    Citation Envoyé par Erlo Voir le message
    quite fun to watch really.. Wish i could play like that.. In a fight like that id be happy if skill lag below 5-10 sec!
    It's not as noticeable because the speed is 2x. A lot of the time I'm just mashing a button trying to get the skill to execute. There's a by now quite normal delay between switching targets of 2-3s. If I don't wait my heals go to my previous target.
    You're in luck though, the lag video with some exceptional excerpts from Sunday's and Monday's raids just uploaded. This one is real-time. Keep your eyes on the skill bar!

    [img]http://i.imgur.com/t4cmgLW.jpg[/img]

  21. #2571
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Suffolk Uk
    Messages
    200
    Citation Envoyé par Anwenil Voir le message
    Very nice Vel, that night was bad for lag all night, and for both sides, Lag is getting bad now, but not far for HD so........there will not be much raids vs raids. Also thanks for the raid last night freep!


    Thanks Ug
    [CENTER]
    [IMG]http://i59.tinypic.com/24b29ew.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

  22. #2572
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    The Netherlands
    Messages
    180
    Citation Envoyé par Rattkille Voir le message
    Very nice Vel, that night was bad for lag all night, and for both sides, Lag is getting bad now, but not far for HD so........there will not be much raids vs raids. Also thanks for the raid last night freep!

    Thanks Ug
    I think its best to avoid keeps as much as possible with big numbers or ON, you might think npcs will help u, but this doesnt help as much as the lag will ruin, so I think its better to fight closer to the ON's gy than a ON's keep
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i255532.iris.fhict.nl/sierra/signature.png[/IMG]


    [/CENTER]

  23. #2573
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Suffolk Uk
    Messages
    200
    Citation Envoyé par Haruno Voir le message
    I think its best to avoid keeps as much as possible with big numbers or ON, you might think npcs will help u, but this doesnt help as much as the lag will ruin, so I think its better to fight closer to the ON's gy than a ON's keep

    you are very right here, best not to fight in keeps, but if there a raid comes into a keep and your in it you can't help about that.
    [CENTER]
    [IMG]http://i59.tinypic.com/24b29ew.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

  24. #2574
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    The Netherlands
    Messages
    180

    MOAR Debuffs plz

    Some random debuff spam pic

    I hoped you guys would make a raid after i tried to reform again, but I guess no raid leaders were on after sharn logged :/
    Dernière modification par Haruno ; 06/11/2013 à 16h37.
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i255532.iris.fhict.nl/sierra/signature.png[/IMG]


    [/CENTER]

  25. #2575
    Date d'inscription
    septembre 2011
    Messages
    262
    Citation Envoyé par Haruno Voir le message
    Some random debuff spam pic

    I hoped you guys would make a raid after i tried to reform again, but I guess no raid leaders were on after sharn logged :/
    There came a creep raid and was up for a short while. Pitty. Nice fight between tir gy and AEp. and one fight at tol east. But after that fight creeps disbanned.. Wonder why.. 1:1 in wipes so why!?

    But thanks for the 2 fights!
    [url=http://postimage.org/][img]http://s29.postimg.org/jhgasj377/image.jpg[/img][/url]

 

 
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