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  1. #1

    AddOns for lotro

    I was asking myself if there is plan about implimenting AddOns, like DamageDone, or Threatmeter. It would really be nice if yes. Maybe we could try to make them ourselves if we had the Language lotro uses for interface and all.

  2. #2
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    I really enjoy playing LOTRO currently and before I started playing a couple months back, I played WoW for the past two years. The player-made addons that allowed you to customize the UI was one of the best things about WoW. I honestly can't imagine how long I would have played WoW if I was limited to just using the default UI.

    I really hope LOTRO has a successful lifespan in the MMO genre. IMO one way to help that come to fruition is the default UI either has to get some serious new functionality added to it that replicates the features of the more popular WoW addons (ex. Auctioneer, Lootlink, FuBar, Outfitter) or allow the modding community to get their hands on the UI scripting code so they can create it themselves. The Ace compliant addons used by so many WoW players is a prime example of how the modding community can enrich the enjoyment of the game for the benefit of the entire community.

    I know a lot of players here cringe at the thought of incorporating anything from WoW into LOTRO but for anyone who has played both games, the similarity between the default LOTRO UI and the WoW default UI is striking. I've read a lot of comments that LOTRO is a WoW-clone because of this similarity. Personally I would take that as a compliment if I worked at Turbine because both the WoW and LOTRO default UIs are well designed. The biggest difference between the two is that WoW allows the customer to use player-made addons to improve UI functionality. hopefully Turbine will do so as well at some point.

  3. #3

    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Yeah , I was thinking the same thing. Seriously they should release a script code for the UI interface.

  4. #4

    Re: AddOns for lotro

    I've only played the trial version of WoW (twice). But probably the biggest thing that lured me to that game was the ton of addons that were made for it. Its unbelievable how many addons people have made for that game.

    It would be nice for LOTRO to have something like that also.

    But the LOTRO interface still needs work as it is. Things are still clunky to use, such as the auction hall interface... at least in my opinion it is. It needs a lot more options for searching, and an option to reset/clear the search.

  5. #5
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    I, for one, certainly hope they do not ever allow for user made add-ons to the LoTRO interface. While, at first, I thought the add-ons for WoW were cool, after a while there were so many, it became ridiculous. Some were borderline cheating. Some were considered necessary, and people would not group/raid with you unless you used them. Not to mention that they had to be constantly updated with every new patch. Turbine should certainly keep on improving the UI, but screw the user made add-ons. They are not necessary.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/022040000000077bc/01008/signature.png]Cern[/charsig]

    "[I]I [I]don't know the key to success[/I], but the [I]key[/I] to failure is trying to please everybody."[/I] - [I]Bill Cosby[/I]

  6. #6
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Even if some addon feature would be nice, I tend to agree with LethalBlade.

    In WoW you do need to use addons, keeping them up to date became a duty.

    The more we go the more Turbine gives access to UI elements.

    So resizing, showing/hiding and skinning UI does a really good job.

  7. #7

    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Actually I think the resizing works awful. All its doing is zooming in on the graphic and distorting/making the graphic all fuzzy.

    I still would prefer addons because then you don't have to wait for the game company to improve the interface, which may never happen. I also know about the hassle of the updates breaking after each patch (the Firefox browser has that problem with its addons), but I'd still rather have that. Its the same way for the user interface skins... they sometimes break after each update.

  8. #8
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    Talking Re: AddOns for lotro

    I think addons are a good idea, but perhaps if they were Turbine-made only it would be better, rather than letting pretty much any user-made addon in the game. This way Turbine can regulate the add-ons and we'd still get some functionality out of it. Perhaps they could set up a site and they've have to approve every add-on that was submitted or something of that sort.

    It's nit a big deal, though. I can change my UI well enough with the options available to make it how I like it, but I can understand if others want more.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120b0000000031a0/01005/signature.png]Willicar[/charsig]

  9. #9
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    The "required" addons for WoW were mainly required for "stopgap" measures or to reduce people missing cues/spells/timepoints in raids (bossmods). The original WoW UI was missing a couple crucial elements that only became crucial after there was a heavy contingent of raiders at end-game. Many of the important endgame addons had to deal with scheduling raids or running raids.

    Sometimes Blizz liked the addons, and incorporated their functionality into the base UI, thus improving it! (some combat text, AH stuff, and other tweaks)

    Sometimes the addons did too much, and were then declared illegal (the old version of decursive). Then again the G15 Logitec Keyboard was illegal in WoW at one point due to the ability to program a pause into buton macros, but now is allowed as long as they stay within macro rules.

    I think allowing addons in the game would be nice, and gives the players a great way to show the devs what kind of things they want in the game. Addons are a double-edged sword though. You can't alter one aspect of MMO play in isolation, it will change other parts of the game too. Nobody likes having to sacrifice more memory for addons they don't really want, but use so they can raid/group/etc.

    Keeping up to date with 1-4 addons is not a big time sink, and shouldn't bother too many people. I doubt too many addons will become "required" within the first 6-8 months of them being released, so all those fears of HAVING to have certain addons shouldn't be a factor for a long time.... and even then there won't be many REQUIRED.

    Having added and optional functionality should be something Turbine looks into for the future to help keep the players they have, and attract new gamers to make this community grow.

    PS - I also understand the views of those who resent being told they HAVE to modify their game in a certain way via addons to raid/group/etc. I see both sides of the fence, I just happen to be on the pro-addon side.
    Last edited by Lovecraft1778; Sep 20 2007 at 02:27 PM. Reason: correction
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  10. #10
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Quote Originally Posted by LethalBlade View Post
    I, for one, certainly hope they do not ever allow for user made add-ons to the LoTRO interface. While, at first, I thought the add-ons for WoW were cool, after a while there were so many, it became ridiculous. Some were borderline cheating. Some were considered necessary, and people would not group/raid with you unless you used them. Not to mention that they had to be constantly updated with every new patch. Turbine should certainly keep on improving the UI, but screw the user made add-ons. They are not necessary.
    I concur; The game itself doesnt require all the (Chef Ramsayism) ****.
    Theres certain "styles" that beg for it, but its not a global need because we already have a workable, and being refined, UI as it is.

    I know if they implemented a version of the mess we had to deal with as authors and players (updates every patch), I'd be out.
    [I][B]-Fenir [Founder][/B] "[COLOR=Orange]The Ancients[/COLOR]" Kinship - [COLOR=Orange]Silverlode[/COLOR][/I]
    [I][COLOR=Orange][B] UI Author:[/B] "[/COLOR][URL="http://www.lotrointerface.com/downloads/info35-FenirWoodSuitev2.4.html"][COLOR=Orange]Fenir Wood[/COLOR][/URL][/I][I][COLOR=Orange]" , "[URL="http://www.lotrointerface.com/downloads/info56-FenirRareEarthv1.4.html"]Fenir Rare Earth[/URL]"
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  11. #11
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    I actually believe they should implement something more along the lines of UI skinning in DAoC (I know to some people that's a bad word, but hey).

    Allow the user/modder to completely customize the look of the interface, without affecting the functionality (functionality should be controlled by Turbine *imo*).

    Also need to move the saving of the layout/customization to the client rather than the server. I know I use multiple computers with multiple resolutions and the way it works now is just hosed when it comes to that.

  12. #12
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerf View Post
    I actually believe they should implement something more along the lines of UI skinning in DAoC (I know to some people that's a bad word, but hey).

    Allow the user/modder to completely customize the look of the interface, without affecting the functionality (functionality should be controlled by Turbine *imo*).

    Also need to move the saving of the layout/customization to the client rather than the server. I know I use multiple computers with multiple resolutions and the way it works now is just hosed when it comes to that.
    I would totally agree with the above, appearance-wise giving users control is great, functionality-wise it is not.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b00000002f00f/01008/signature.png]Loraq[/charsig]

  13. #13
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerf View Post
    Allow the user/modder to completely customize the look of the interface, without affecting the functionality (functionality should be controlled by Turbine *imo*).

    That's what we have for now, unless that there are still many things that we can't skin. But regarding how Turbine open UI elements with each new books, we'll be good in a few books

  14. #14

    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Quote Originally Posted by LethalBlade View Post
    I, for one, certainly hope they do not ever allow for user made add-ons to the LoTRO interface.
    Quote Originally Posted by LethalBlade View Post
    While, at first, I thought the add-ons for WoW were cool, after a while there were so many, it became ridiculous.
    Using the same argument for the internet, has the internet become ridiculous? At first there were a few web pages, now there are millions. No one is forced to read them all, but their presence if we need them is great - its the same with addons. You don't have to use them all, you don't even have to see them all. You can settle for using a package, or just get 3 or 4 main ones like a bar mod, a unit frame mod, ct raid assist and auctioneer. Huge increase in functionality with minimal effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by LethalBlade View Post
    Some were borderline cheating.
    Yes, and Blizzard stopped them from working - auto run to destination and decursive for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by LethalBlade View Post
    Some were considered necessary, and people would not group/raid with you unless you used them.
    Some people won't group randoms either. Others won't group at all due to prefering to solo, should your playstyle be forced on them? Their playstyle of wanting to use addons to make their gameplay more entertaining isn't forced on you - you don't have to play with them. If so many people want to use addons (that don't cheapen your game experience if they use them) that you can't find a group, don't you think it wrong that you force all of them to not use them because you don't want to use the one or two addons that people find so essential at making the game more fun? In WoW, this was basically just CT Raid Assist and KLH Threat Meter, and even then you could easily find people who didn't force you to use them (my guild didn't).

    Quote Originally Posted by LethalBlade View Post
    Not to mention that they had to be constantly updated with every new patch.
    This was inconvenient but not as bad as you make out. Only major patches such as the release of Burning Crusade caused all addons to need to be updated - and most were updated long before it was releasd. Even then, it's easily worthwhile due to the control you could have over your interface. If the inconvenience was too much for you you didn't have to use the addons, but why stop others from using them?

    Quote Originally Posted by LethalBlade View Post
    Turbine should certainly keep on improving the UI, but screw the user made add-ons. They are not necessary.
    I can think of many things that aren't necessary but that greatly enhance things. You could use the internet without search engines but it would be nowhere near as good for example.

    In case anyone hasn't seen the customisation you could get with your UI in WoW, I'll post an unmooded UI and my UI. There are many other types, from minimalistic ones with virtually nothing showing, to heavy graphics ones.

    Basic UI: http://wirelessdigest.typepad.com/ph...warcraft_1.jpg
    My UI: http://members.iinet.net.au/~yonan/S...207_040511.jpg

  15. #15

    Re: AddOns for lotro

    We probably will not see much in the way of addons etc for LOTRO.

    This is due to past policies of Turbine. Turbine allowed unlimited modification to their first game Asheron's Call. They also had a weak set of rules. Poor and spotty game master enforcement. Due to the policy and enforcement in Asheron's Call Turbine got the reputation a company that offers games for cheaters.

    Here in LOTRO, Turbine has taken a very strict stance. The majority of people that are familar with Turbine's history (including me) are watching their actions in LOTRO so see if they really have changed. So far I am pleased. The thought that they could slip is always in the back of my mind.

    There is a significant portion of long term players that are familar with Turbine that are on the side lines watching this play out. They swore off Turbine forever. Bad mouthed Turbine to everyone else. It is going to take a year of more of Turbine holding the line before they start believing Turbine has changed.

    Once nice thing about LOTRO is that is has attracted a lot of people who do not know anything about Turbine via personal experience or friends. It has also attracted a lot of first time online game players.

    I have plenty of old Asheron's Call friends that are not willing to come because they do not think Turbine can sustain their policy change in LOTRO. Turbine has got a long hard job trying to convince the these folks. We are not the Turbine you remember.
    Last edited by Yula_the_Mighty; Sep 27 2007 at 12:51 PM.

  16. #16
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerf View Post
    I actually believe they should implement something more along the lines of UI skinning in DAoC ...
    Allow the user/modder to completely customize the look of the interface, without affecting the functionality
    That is already possible. Many LoTRO UI skins are available here:

    www.lotrointerface.com
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/022040000000077bc/01008/signature.png]Cern[/charsig]

    "[I]I [I]don't know the key to success[/I], but the [I]key[/I] to failure is trying to please everybody."[/I] - [I]Bill Cosby[/I]

  17. #17
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    I also come from WoW, and if you take a look at the setup I currently use for that, there probably isn't a single element remaining from the original UI.

    Having played LotRO for a few days now, I come to realize that there really isn't anything I actually miss to the point of negatively impacting my gameplay (can't talk about how the UI performs when in a raid, obviously).

    That is, except for Auctioneer. Is there anything that provides that sort of functionality in LotRO? Or is it even possible?

  18. #18
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithrandas View Post
    That is, except for Auctioneer. Is there anything that provides that sort of functionality in LotRO? Or is it even possible?
    No can't do. We can skin the UI not change it behaviour and functionnality.

    For my part and even if I was deep in Wow addons, I do think it's best to stay away from mods.

    Having players skin / show|hide / move anything in the UI is far enought to adapt to 99% of the players style.

    Add re-mapping any key / mouse button and you are done.

  19. #19
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnwalden View Post
    No can't do. We can skin the UI not change it behaviour and functionnality.

    For my part and even if I was deep in Wow addons, I do think it's best to stay away from mods.

    Having players skin / show|hide / move anything in the UI is far enought to adapt to 99% of the players style.

    Add re-mapping any key / mouse button and you are done.
    I really don't see why anyone would be opposed to tools that allow us to better manipulate and display information that the UI already provides us. Be it information related to combat, trade or chat, I think that we should have the option to display it and manipulate it any way we choose.

  20. #20

    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithrandas View Post
    I really don't see why anyone would be opposed to tools that allow us to better manipulate and display information that the UI already provides us. Be it information related to combat, trade or chat, I think that we should have the option to display it and manipulate it any way we choose.
    Actually there are a lot of people that are totally opposed to any third party modification to the clients of these games. They consider all such mods cheating. They get very upset

    Like any other "hot" topic, there is no pleasing everyone. The reason you do not hear from the anti-mod community much is because Turbine does not allow mods. If Turbine ever starts down the route, they will suddenly appear. The more Turbine allows. The larger and more vocal that group will get.

    The gold sellers and their ads have stirred up the community. That is rather low key subject in comparision to the venom you can get with third party mods.

  21. #21
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Quote Originally Posted by LethalBlade View Post
    That is already possible. Many LoTRO UI skins are available here:

    www.lotrointerface.com
    Actually if you're not familiar with skinning in DAoC, it's not possible to match the functionality with what turbine has given us. It's not even close in actuality.

    Think the level of visual customization you get in WoW without the macroing capabilities.. things like:

    - completely changing the group window (no silly portraits, bars you can actually see, changing the layout to be vertical, horizontal, or a box)

    - complete overhaul of the status window. I *hate* the bars/number that every game seems to follow - I can change that in DAoC or WoW, but not LoTR.

    - Dynamic reposition of every element of the UI (including the "toolbar")

    LoTR allows you to change the very basic parts of the skin, but not the real meat and potatos. What they need is the ability to alter the core appearance of much of the UI, not just the pretty portraits and borders. And yes, I have a custom skin which is about as far removed from the default as is possible at this point, and it's not nearly far enough.

  22. #22

    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Just to point out, there is no mandate in WoW that ANYONE use addons. There are tons of people that do not like using them. That's fine. I don't really care if they don't want to use them.

    However, if I had been restricted to the same default, almost identical interface as LotRO's, I would have left that thing and gone mad over a year ago.

    As it stands, I've been playing over 2 years now, and I've changed everything the interface has to offer. From an interface that included very little else besides the world around you, to information overload. And that's all I'm really changing. What information the game provides me.

    As far as I'm concerned, the LotRO interface is merely a skin for WoW. They games are SO similiar, from the keyboard mappings, to the types of quests you do, and how you interact with things, that I can't really tell the difference.

    So why do I play LotRO? I dunno yet. I'm still evaluating it. As it stands, it has a nice world to interact with and a story that I'm very very familiar with.

    Am I going to stay with this thing if I can't change it? No. That interface is already driving me mad. And the next time a freaking captain or a minstrel shouts at me, I'm gonna get really unpleasant. I still wanna know who's bright idea it was to have 2 classes scream like little 8 year olds on the play ground. They need to have needles inserted under their finger nails.

  23. #23

    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenasp View Post
    Just to point out, there is no mandate in WoW that ANYONE use addons. There are tons of people that do not like using them. That's fine. I don't really care if they don't want to use them.
    I understand what you are saying. But the mod haters do not see it this way. They feel the addons give unfair advantages to the add on users. Creates a have and have not separation. Many of the have nots do not the skill to develop, install or use the addons. For those people that is is a 'can not' instead of a 'choose not' then unhappiness follows.

    There is also the - 'This is a lot of work' group. Addons are not provided automatically by the publisher. There is consider effort in finding, installing and learning to user them. Plenty of people do not want to do this. They want to play. Again they fill the addons give an unfair advantage to the addon users. They are not happy.

    Finally in every game, there are addons that are not free. You have to pay for them. Some require you belong to a specific organization. Some addons come with account stealers built into them. One of example is Zuggsoft's zExplorer that you pay for. It is available for a number of games. You can get it for LOTRO but it does not integrate with the LOTRO client because it is not allowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenasp View Post
    And the next time a freaking captain or a minstrel shouts at me, I'm gonna get really unpleasant. I still wanna know who's bright idea it was to have 2 classes scream like little 8 year olds on the play ground. They need to have needles inserted under their finger nails.
    Turbine did this because the Minstrels and Captains like to yell. They are not the only yellers. Guardians, Hunters and Champions get to to scream and shout.

    Turbine toned down the noise a while back. A lot of customers just went wild. Ripped Turbine a new one. Turbine went. OoooKkkk. Bad idea it seems. Put them back.

    I just wish they have some option to turn down the volume on the shouts or put a stop to them. You are not the only one that does no like them. I like the idea of lots of options to meet the needs of large portion of the customer base.
    Last edited by Yula_the_Mighty; Oct 02 2007 at 09:31 AM.

  24. #24

    Re: AddOns for lotro

    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    I understand what you are saying. But the mod haters do not see it this way. They feel the addons give unfair advantages to the add on users. Creates a have and have not separation. Many of the have nots do not the skill to develop, install or use the addons. For those people that is is a 'can not' instead of a 'choose not' then unhappiness follows.
    No one who is capable of creating a LotRO game account is incapable of installing the common addon packages (using wow as the benchmark). The game company (Blizzard, Turbine) can limit the functions of addons without disabling addons altogether - and Blizzard has done so where they deemed appropriate. It's easy to throw around "mods are cheating" without citing any examples.

    Is getting your combat log to display "68 - [You] - [Wolf]" a cheat instead of the default "You hit the wolf for xx damage"?
    Is removing the character portraits from the group window and lining the health bars up with no space between them a cheat?
    Is allowing the ability to tab between fields in the auction house a cheat?
    Is stopping gold spam cheating?

    These are examples of minor useability tweaks that addons could allow that would make the game much more playable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    I just wish they have some option to turn down the volume on the shouts or put a stop to them.
    Addons could do this for us ; )
    Last edited by Nishino; Oct 03 2007 at 08:28 AM.

  25. #25
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    Re: AddOns for lotro

    I came to this thread thinking this would be a list of Add-Ons for the LOTRO UI. I was afraid of what I was missing. Thankfully, I didn't find anything. I fully support the decision to NOT allow add-ons.

    Like others, I played WoW for over a year straight. Keeping up with the UI add-ons was an EXTREMELY PAINFUL experience... but it was almost required. And yeah, many of them were essentially cheating.

 

 
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