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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    465

    Sticky Gourd in groups

    As someone who doesn't play an LM (mine is 36 and has been for years...), I'm curious about how LMs should and do interact with groups. In my experience Sticky Gourd (I think the Improved version, according to the wiki, unless the regular version also creates a flame puddle) is a serious annoyance - it presumably does nice dps since every LM I've seen spams it as often as they can, but the effect on my burglar, champion, and to a lesser extent guardian, warden, and captain is as follows:

    1. Cannot see the target mob's induction circle, so I don't know to addle, clobber, or use other interrupts. And now that there are no 5s interrupts anymore simply spamming addle/clobber isn't an option...
    2. Cannot see the target mob. If it moves, whether due to the tank dragging it somewhere else, or because a silly hunter pulled aggro off of the tank, or whatever, all I know is that the target is suddenly out of range. So I have to take several seconds moving out of the giant flame zone so I can see the directional selection indicator, then move along that axis until the target is in range (ideally, the target itself would be visible once I'm out of the flames, but often it isn't). Ditto for when target #1 dies and the group switches to a new target. Whatever the dps of this skill is, there's no way it's enough to compensate for shutting down the group's burglars, champs, etc. like this. Worse for burglars since even once we find the target, if it's in a flame puddle we don't know it's facing and probably won't be getting our positional damage as a result (and depending on mob might get quickly killed by a frontal aoe).
    3. Some mobs put damaging flame puddles down themselves. Players tend to reflexively avoid flame puddles if they know what's good for them. So there can be a bit of a delay as we realize "oh, that's just that annoying LM dps skill, not a hostile flame puddle". Thankfully I haven't seen much actual hostile flame usage at levels where LM Sticky Gourd spam is common...

    Is there a graphics option that will make the Sticky Gourd flame puddle invisible? Or is that a skill that LMs shouldn't be using so much in groups, and I just happen to see mostly solo-centric folks doing their solo dps routine instead of (one assumes) debuffs, stun immunity, roots, etc.? I was in a recent Helegrod deed run where a LM asked if he should refrain from Sticky Gourd to prevent people lagging; the raid leader said lag was not an issue but gently suggested that fire was not the LM's primary job. The player did not take that to heart though; item #2 above - my champ spent most of the drake wing boss fight running around flame puddles trying to find where the dps target was so I could hit it.

    LMs seem like they should be useful folks to have (sometimes necessary - Roots T2 back at 75, for example), so I'm hoping there's some way to improve the grouping experience between them and the melee classes in the game. Whether a graphics setting or "please don't use that skill" or something else...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    448
    Quote Originally Posted by J_Howell View Post
    LMs seem like they should be useful folks to have (sometimes necessary - Roots T2 back at 75, for example), so I'm hoping there's some way to improve the grouping experience between them and the melee classes in the game. Whether a graphics setting or "please don't use that skill" or something else...

    "Please don't use that skill" probably won't be happening. Improved Sticky Gourd adds a great deal of AOE dps to a red-line loremaster's routine, and they will not give it up lightly. You can always ask the LMs in your group to refrain from using the skill, but don't hold your breath. You could even try asking them to trait yellow-line for a debuff/support role; this will ensure that they don't have the skill at all.

    The graphics of the skill certainly are a little over the top, though. You can try disabling Post Processing Effects in your Advanced Graphics options, or the Special Effects options under UI Settings. There's even an argument to be made for submitting a /bug report on the skill's graphics; they really shouldn't be obscuring important graphic information like targetted-mob circles that are there to communicate mob inductions to the player. (Note mob target circles have gotten bugged themselves in a recent update -- they're getting drawn underneath some floor-covering objects, and can be difficult to see even without the LM fires.)
    Join the LotRO Volunteer QA Team!
    Use the [url="http://lotrobugs.turbine.com"][color=red]bug reporting tool[/color][/url] or type /bug in-game!*
    [SIZE=1]*no rants please[/size]

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Somewhere in Middle-earth
    Posts
    560
    I don't have a melee class, so I can be in some or all things wrong, but:

    -you can zoom out camera (I know, it does not help in every situation)
    -most of the time you are fighting against enemies of your size, so there should be no problem of targeting them (to this point, with bigger enemies bigger flame. With human-size-enemies you should have really no problems. Such places like giant wing or drake wing in Helegrod, there you can have a little problem)
    -to the cast circles - after some time you realize that the enemy take some special stand while casting. If you can recognize it, you don't need to see the circle under them (but as far as I remember, I can see it also through flames, perhaps because I am not near to the enemy)
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik
    Eglish isn't my first language, sorry for mistakes

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Middle-earth
    Posts
    1,700
    Doesn't Options -> Combat Options -> unselecting "Enable Combat Hit Effects" and/or "Enable Avatar Attack Effects" work?
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    Doesn't Options -> Combat Options -> unselecting "Enable Combat Hit Effects" and/or "Enable Avatar Attack Effects" work?
    yep it will not show if u do that.
    Also in ettens u might be asked not to use it coz of adding much to server lag
    Gourd should be used wisely if u dont wanna make tanks angry. Dont throw it right from the start in big pulls coz if it crits ull have all nonchallenged mobs on u.
    But overall ISG is probably the best AoE DPS skill in the game, so it would be a shame not to be used

  6. #6
    As noted, you prolly have a better chance of hitting the lottery then me giving up my arguably 2nd best AoE. I only say 2nd as my Lighting is pure brutal but on longer cool down. As I have an alt Cappy I do understand what you are talking about, but when there are 4 - 8 mobs sitting in tar and my initial ISG hits for 5K+ damage and then the DoT ticks.... Might as well ask a guard to leave his shield at home and the hunter his bow.

    Due to the broken scaling and not longer needing to use mechanics any more.... Our kin usually brings 2 LMs on runs just to try and keep ISG up 100% of the time. Annumanas runs, Fornost runs, Dale, etc. This places are just prime for as much AoE as we can get out.
    Used to show a pic... Seems to be broken links now. Good Ole Turbine.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    1,693
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatuaje View Post
    As noted, you prolly have a better chance of hitting the lottery then me giving up my arguably 2nd best AoE. I only say 2nd as my Lighting is pure brutal but on longer cool down. As I have an alt Cappy I do understand what you are talking about, but when there are 4 - 8 mobs sitting in tar and my initial ISG hits for 5K+ damage and then the DoT ticks.... Might as well ask a guard to leave his shield at home and the hunter his bow.

    Due to the broken scaling and not longer needing to use mechanics any more.... Our kin usually brings 2 LMs on runs just to try and keep ISG up 100% of the time. Annumanas runs, Fornost runs, Dale, etc. This places are just prime for as much AoE as we can get out.
    Thing is, though, I can definitely see the point of the OP. ISG does add graphical problems for other people. So, while it is great AoE DPS and should not be given up lightly... I would think that the person playing the LM could be willing to adapt IF someone in the group expresses an issue with graphics. And, there are times where missing another graphic (covered up by ISG) can be critical. For example, Battle for Erebor is one in which seeing those catapult targetting circles is key... and I have seen times when ISG's graphics can "hide" those targeting circles if the circles happen to target a square right under the trolls.

    It would be good if the developers could address this issue. The damage from ISG is exceptional... but the graphics problems can be annoying to many people.

    After all, we do have to remember that people play this game on a wide variety of machines that may or may not be able to handle graphics as well. So, this does need to be looked at.
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  8. #8
    Possibly true, it is also a bit to similar to some mobs fire pots.... There is no "adapting" the ISG graphic, it is not something I can control. If I am there for DPS and that is needed to win, I need to do the best I can for the role. Otherwise why fail just because a graphic is not to the liking of all. As I stated, I run a Cappy and am aware of the OPs complaint. I would recommend target assit forwarding, that is how I usually work around it.

    More important to me, is LMs not using the huge polar bear and wilderness bear. Now those are over the top.
    Used to show a pic... Seems to be broken links now. Good Ole Turbine.

 

 

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