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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    87

    30.3 is as "glorious" as expected



    Having a separate page for each class was apparently too much, right?




    - Quite redundant to have every single page start with "Class" when the library shelf is tied to a specific class, right?
    - And I do like the UX of having to scroll trough countless pages - which are all displaying the same traceries, just with different levels - just to get where I want to go because you apparently couldn't think of a proper way to just display the traceries on a single page with some sort of level toggle to display them for a specific level


    - Having to move between 4 shelves, 1 class and 3 general ones, just to be able to look at every available tracery is "impressive" UX when you could've just, you know, offer every tracery in a single, comprehensive UI similar to the trait trees where you can just barter there for the traceries?
    - Having to scroll between countless pages just to get a grasp in terms of how the higher-tier traceries scale better is yet again "impressive" UX
    - 0 information in-game as to how to level my new lvl 45 LI when I can immediately purchase lvl 121 traceries which I can't slot
    -- Quote from your article about the new LI system: "You will begin your Legendary Item journey by slotting in Traceries and applying Enhancement Runes AT YOUR CHARACTER LEVEL"
    --- Ah, you're supposed to reforge
    - The click-path of slotting a single LI is mindblowing bad:
    -- A:
    --- 1. Drag&drop an LI on that small icon in your character panl
    --- 2. Drag&drop a tracery from your inventory unto a slot in the LI-panel
    -- B:
    --- 1. Right-click a tracery
    --- 2. Select a LI
    --- 3. Drag&drop a tracery from your inventory unto a slot in the LI-panel
    -> Games made 2 decades ago have a better UI and UX than your "rework" in 2021
    - Are there really so many carbon-copies of craft traceries which do the exact same thing, but with a different name, just to get a "set bonus"? Really?
    -- Why are there only "set bonuses" in terms of elemental damage bonuses and nothing at all for stronger heals, stronger non-elemental damage or more mitigations?
    - Word of Power traceries:
    -- Distinguishes between single-target and AoE even tough your own skill descriptions don't offer said distinction
    -- What is "Extension" supposed to be? Is that added range? If so just name it that
    -- Why do those traceries look like they've been vomited into those pages without a single thought given? Grouping them by type/scope - damage, heal, mitigation, other - was too close to common sense and thus not needed, right?
    -- Where are the "Area of Effect Spell damage" and "Single Target Spell Damage" traceries, or are the melee ones just there to compensate for your lack of class balance?




    What is "Traceries barred" supposed to tell me?
    Ah: it means I can't do anything with my newly bartered LI, and thus am completely locked out of this "new and improved" LI "rework".
    Ahh: the end-user has to figure out himself that he has to unequip both old LIs to be able to slot a new LI: I reckon you couldn't have picked a worse explanation than "Traceries barred" even if you'd actually tried



    I like how "clean" and "organized" the inspect/adjust-LI panels looks.



    What are those weird ornaments supposed to tell me around certain tracery slots?
    If those should highlight the different slots of non-class traceries then you failed spectacularly, because I've no idea whatsoever what each one is supposed to tell me.
    - Ah, only in the LI-adjust panel do they have an explanation



    Someone couldn't even be bothered to adjust the title of pages and remove the number if there's only a single page.
    Last edited by oggbnvwnyc; Oct 14 2021 at 02:43 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    514
    I don't know whose job it was to facilitate the rollout of this system, but they have failed, miserably.
    “And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend. Legend became myth. And for two and a half thousand years, the ring passed out of all knowledge.”
    ? J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

  3. #3
    I missed renaming when I reforged, so I will have to look for that at 126. Otherwise, I think this is power creep we haven't experienced since the Imbue system came in.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Elflord410 View Post
    I don't know whose job it was to facilitate the rollout of this system, but they have failed, miserably.
    This is SSG: the current "quality" is their trademark signature.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,967
    I have christened it "Clunky McClunckyface", the new standard in user interaction. All shall worship it and despair.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by oggbnvwnyc View Post


    Having a separate page for each class was apparently too much, right?




    - Quite redundant to have every single page start with "Class" when the library shelf is tied to a specific class, right?
    - And I do like the UX of having to scroll trough countless pages - which are all displaying the same traceries, just with different levels - just to get where I want to go because you apparently couldn't think of a proper way to just display the traceries on a single page with some sort of level toggle to display them for a specific level


    - Having to move between 4 shelves, 1 class and 3 general ones, just to be able to look at every available tracery is "impressive" UX when you could've just, you know, offer every tracery in a single, comprehensive UI similar to the trait trees where you can just barter there for the traceries?
    - Having to scroll between countless pages just to get a grasp in terms of how the higher-tier traceries scale better is yet again "impressive" UX
    - 0 information in-game as to how to level my new lvl 45 LI when I can immediately purchase lvl 121 traceries which I can't slot
    -- Quote from your article about the new LI system: "You will begin your Legendary Item journey by slotting in Traceries and applying Enhancement Runes AT YOUR CHARACTER LEVEL"
    --- Ah, you're supposed to reforge
    - The click-path of slotting a single LI is mindblowing bad:
    -- A:
    --- 1. Drag&drop an LI on that small icon in your character panl
    --- 2. Drag&drop a tracery from your inventory unto a slot in the LI-panel
    -- B:
    --- 1. Right-click a tracery
    --- 2. Select a LI
    --- 3. Drag&drop a tracery from your inventory unto a slot in the LI-panel
    -> Games made 2 decades ago have a better UI and UX than your "rework" in 2021
    - Are there really so many carbon-copies of craft traceries which do the exact same thing, but with a different name, just to get a "set bonus"? Really?
    -- Why are there only "set bonuses" in terms of elemental damage bonuses and nothing at all for stronger heals, stronger non-elemental damage or more mitigations?
    - Word of Power traceries:
    -- Distinguishes between single-target and AoE even tough your own skill descriptions don't offer said distinction
    -- What is "Extension" supposed to be? Is that added range? If so just name it that
    -- Why do those traceries look like they've been vomited into those pages without a single thought given? Grouping them by type/scope - damage, heal, mitigation, other - was too close to common sense and thus not needed, right?
    -- Where are the "Area of Effect Spell damage" and "Single Target Spell Damage" traceries, or are the melee ones just there to compensate for your lack of class balance?




    What is "Traceries barred" supposed to tell me?
    Ah: it means I can't do anything with my newly bartered LI, and thus am completely locked out of this "new and improved" LI "rework".
    Ahh: the end-user has to figure out himself that he has to unequip both old LIs to be able to slot a new LI: I reckon you couldn't have picked a worse explanation than "Traceries barred" even if you'd actually tried



    I like how "clean" and "organized" the inspect/adjust-LI panels looks.



    What are those weird ornaments supposed to tell me around certain tracery slots?
    If those should highlight the different slots of non-class traceries then you failed spectacularly, because I've no idea whatsoever what each one is supposed to tell me.
    - Ah, only in the LI-adjust panel do they have an explanation



    Someone couldn't even be bothered to adjust the title of pages and remove the number if there's only a single page.



    Thank you and well said. It's just another mess and hate to see what the future will hold for it when adding more and more #### on.
    Starstorm


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    246
    They did this trash instead of actually fixing the old LI system... What the actual,,,,,,

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    87
    As I can't link more than 6 images: the screenshot for the Word of Power traceries which show the "effort" that went into that whole "rework" with a single glance.



    Additionally to my points listed above: that list of traceries is neither grouped by type/scope, nor even sorted alphabetically -> they're just thrown in there with 0 care or though given.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Elflord410 View Post
    I don't know whose job it was to facilitate the rollout of this system, but they have failed, miserably.
    Imagine if there had existed a special server where new features like this could be tested by the general playerbase before release...
    Eats like a Hobbit, drinks like a Dwarf, farts like an Orc...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatty View Post
    Imagine if there had existed a special server where new features like this could be tested by the general playerbase before release...
    There is:
    - BR is the "sneak peek"
    - Live servers are the test servers

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    487
    Quote Originally Posted by bjute View Post
    They did this trash instead of actually fixing the old LI system... What the actual,,,,,,
    It does leave one struggling for a word that can approach expressing it . . .

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    487
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatty View Post
    Imagine if there had existed a special server where new features like this could be tested by the general playerbase before release...
    Keep imagining as we need one where player feedback is listened to . . .

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    167
    Quote Originally Posted by Nonde View Post
    It does leave one struggling for a word that can approach expressing it . . .
    It certainly lacks polish in areas, but overall the system is useable. With a game as large and complex as LOTRO (and all that implies for the code built up over many years), it's not a disaster. I would have preferred another week or two of polish myself, but nothing in the software industry is ever fully ready.

    I for one want to thank the devs for turning out a functional system without any major bugs. I've worked for 15 years and done countless number of releases, and each one I have felt that I was being pushed to release through gritted teeth. So I know how those in the trenches at SSG feel.
    Aldowine (Captain), Aldosi (Guardian), Aldoik (Champion), Aldocome (Burglar), Aldobeorn (Bear), Aldomur (RK) - Arkenstone
    Kin Leader, Athelas & Tonic - https://www.athelasandtonic.com/

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    607
    Quote Originally Posted by oggbnvwnyc View Post
    (the opening post)
    So in summary....

    -The barter menus might be presentable in a way that's more concise. Yes!
    -Various terminology issues you think are redundant or could use clarification. Some good ideas. Maybe they'll take these into consideration.
    -You think there should be better instructions/tutorial. Good idea.
    -Slotting a tracery is not intuitive. True.

    You used a lot of images and many repeated examples of things that are really the same four issues. The new LI system needs streamlining but so did your post.

    Also two points that didn't make sense:

    -Word of Power Traceries make a distinction between single-target and AoE but skills don't? Yes they do.
    -You want separate traceries for "Aoe/Single target spell damage." First, we don't have spells. Second, damage is damage. Those traceries work for everyone, don't they?

  15. #15
    UI for new system needs some polishing, but in general system itself looks better for me. Some traceries might be too op, especially on lower levels, but this could be adressed in the future. Made 2 lis for 68 lvl minstrel yesterday and numbers for both damage and healing went way higher than before with old lis. Also there is a choice now to put masteries on weapon or class item, so you can combine it how you want.
    Its nice to have new system now before xpack to try how it works to go all in on release. Will see if its easy or not to obtain new components to upgrade lis, since this is one of main points why new system was implemented. I personally have no problems with many pages i have to check for stuff and in general when you figure out what you can find and where it isnt that bad. Maybe just 1 place to do it is not enough, since Rivendell never was so crowded. But after initial making of li you wont need it often anyway.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Halphast View Post
    So in summary....

    -The barter menus might be presentable in a way that's more concise. Yes!
    -Various terminology issues you think are redundant or could use clarification. Some good ideas. Maybe they'll take these into consideration.
    -You think there should be better instructions/tutorial. Good idea.
    -Slotting a tracery is not intuitive. True.

    You used a lot of images and many repeated examples of things that are really the same four issues. The new LI system needs streamlining but so did your post.

    Also two points that didn't make sense:

    -Word of Power Traceries make a distinction between single-target and AoE but skills don't? Yes they do.
    -You want separate traceries for "Aoe/Single target spell damage." First, we don't have spells. Second, damage is damage. Those traceries work for everyone, don't they?
    True, could've been more concise, but I was updating the comment as I was learning how that "improved" LI system is supposed to work with its close to 0 information available in-game.

    > -Word of Power Traceries make a distinction between single-target and AoE but skills don't? Yes they do.


    They don't: with what Power Traceries can you e.g. scale the heal of Conviction, which has only the tag "Heal"?
    Are skills with just the "Heal" tag compatible with every healing Power Tracery, or does the end-user have to guess which ones might work with a certain healing skill?


    > -You want separate traceries for "Aoe/Single target spell damage." First, we don't have spells. Second, damage is damage. Those traceries work for everyone, don't they?

    You're right: in Lotro's terminology it's "Tactical skill" and not "spell", but that doesn't change my point:
    - A: Either the wording is utter garbage, as both traceries already apply their damage increase to both melee and tactical skills, or
    - B: Both traceries only apply the damage increased to melee skills, as going by their wording you actually "attack" with melee skills

  17. #17
    I have just barely returned from taking about a year and a half break for personal reasons. I haven't been following the forums or any Lotro related news so I was in for quite a shock when I logged in 10/16 three days after the update 30.3 patch.

    I first thought something was broken when I saw that my LIs were not leveling. I then tried to go to a forge master to identify a few that I had laying around and there was no option to do so. I eventually logged out to read the latest patch notes and that was only the beginning of my reacquaintance which what I now considered a horrible mess.

    I had to go to several internet sites outside of Lotro.com to get a better understanding of what was taking place. Even then I wasted quite a bit of time trying to figure stuff out before I felt I could return to play.

    I suppose if I had been playing all this time it would have been much much smoother but from this post and others I've read I feel I am far from being alone in my bewilderment and dissatisfaction of this latest update. I was okay with the LI revamp even though I had no real issues with the old system since I was and still am a casual gamer. I also liked leveling my LIs because it gave me something to visually see progress in other than character leveling.

    I had saved a ton of LIs which are all now worthless. This constitutes a considerable amount of time for me which has all gone to waste since SSG offers nothing in exchange. I did try to upgrade one of my characters with a new LI but it was so labor intensive that I gave up after completing just one on one toon and I have dozens of alts. Won't happen to upgrade them all!

    So do I continue to play? I am not sure but if I do I am going to abandon the LI system completely. I really don't need it for my level of play anyway. The only problem is that I really liked leveling LIs so what is going to be my focus now that the old system is no more? I know that things do change over time especially in mmos. I just wish there was a lotro version of one that stayed more or less the same with the occasional quality of life improvement that didn't radically change the way the game was played...
    Welden of Elendilmir

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by welden View Post
    I have just barely returned from taking about a year and a half break for personal reasons. I haven't been following the forums or any Lotro related news so I was in for quite a shock when I logged in 10/16 three days after the update 30.3 patch.

    I first thought something was broken when I saw that my LIs were not leveling. I then tried to go to a forge master to identify a few that I had laying around and there was no option to do so. I eventually logged out to read the latest patch notes and that was only the beginning of my reacquaintance which what I now considered a horrible mess.

    I had to go to several internet sites outside of Lotro.com to get a better understanding of what was taking place. Even then I wasted quite a bit of time trying to figure stuff out before I felt I could return to play.

    I suppose if I had been playing all this time it would have been much much smoother but from this post and others I've read I feel I am far from being alone in my bewilderment and dissatisfaction of this latest update. I was okay with the LI revamp even though I had no real issues with the old system since I was and still am a casual gamer. I also liked leveling my LIs because it gave me something to visually see progress in other than character leveling.

    I had saved a ton of LIs which are all now worthless. This constitutes a considerable amount of time for me which has all gone to waste since SSG offers nothing in exchange. I did try to upgrade one of my characters with a new LI but it was so labor intensive that I gave up after completing just one on one toon and I have dozens of alts. Won't happen to upgrade them all!

    So do I continue to play? I am not sure but if I do I am going to abandon the LI system completely. I really don't need it for my level of play anyway. The only problem is that I really liked leveling LIs so what is going to be my focus now that the old system is no more? I know that things do change over time especially in mmos. I just wish there was a lotro version of one that stayed more or less the same with the occasional quality of life improvement that didn't radically change the way the game was played...
    Lotro.com-> the game-> articles explains the new system

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    3,441
    I never understand why software developers think it's OK to leave UI's looking like this. It's a total mess, and just because something is not completely unreadable does not make it acceptable.

    If there's too much in there for a small dropdown, either increase the window size or switch from dropdown to something else like tabs.

    LOTRO UI is in desperate need of an overhaul, and the new LI system only highlights this further. I hope Raninia and team start prioritizing this soon. I would be happy with a full year of festivals that have no new items, a delayed future update, and not a single piece of new content until they address a lot of these core game issues.
    Servers: Treebeard | Arkenstone | Landroval
    Classes: Hunter | Champion | Loremaster | Warden | Beorning
    Creeps: Warleader | Reaver

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    I never understand why software developers think it's OK to leave UI's looking like this. It's a total mess, and just because something is not completely unreadable does not make it acceptable.

    If there's too much in there for a small dropdown, either increase the window size or switch from dropdown to something else like tabs.

    LOTRO UI is in desperate need of an overhaul, and the new LI system only highlights this further. I hope Raninia and team start prioritizing this soon. I would be happy with a full year of festivals that have no new items, a delayed future update, and not a single piece of new content until they address a lot of these core game issues.
    LOL: didn't you read the "Producer's" response in my other thread in which he admits to deliberately releasing this train-wreck of UI and UX to then making a sad attempt at downplaying it by trying to laughing it away?

    I'm not the Executive Producer, but I'm pretty sure you're referring to me. Truth is, when you release an update, it's still really busy for several days afterwards! I'm spending a lot of time watching content creators and reading various forums, not to mention time in meetings talking about what we're seeing from 30.3, our continued progress towards releasing Fate of Gundabad with 31, and discussing post-31 releases as well. I didn't get much time to play yesterday, but I did spend a lot of time keeping an eye on world chat With the forums, I've mostly been taking the approach of helping out where I can, because I don't have a ton of time to get into conversations or provide long answers atm. I'm actually about to sign off, so this caught me at a lucky moment.

    Suffice to say, while there're lots of folks with legitimate frustrations, the update seems to have gone pretty well overall. I've definitely seen things go far worse, so we're pretty happy atm. We're working on our next patch and upcoming Bullroarer as well, so folks will be able to see continued progress. We definitely understand that we should've had something for players ingame that gave them a heads up on the update - we frankly ran out of time and deprioritized it. We'll be discussing that decisions - among others - over the next few weeks.

    And we'll keep reading stuff, though we'll probably not be able to respond consistently still, just because Gundabad is coming down the mountain pretty soon

    Hope that all was coherent, my brain's a little mushy at this point.
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...50#post8098050

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by wispsong View Post
    Lotro.com-> the game-> articles explains the new system
    If that were true then people wouldn't need to gather information out-game on several other sites, reading several guides + asking people in their vicinity or /world how that "improved" system is supposed to work, right?

 

 

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