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  1. #1

    Returning player wondering about pre f2p server? SOA/MOM/SOM?

    I have been playing Lotro now for a few months, catching up my years of absence. I have enjoyed the epic quests, and exploring the new regions and I am glad you have brought back raids/instances as endgame focus.

    Even though I have had a nice experience, I feel like this isn't the game I used to know and love. Content wise, I think its way better now than back in 2014/15 or so when I stopped playing. But the new embers/motes system along with the tedious LI/Virtue grind I am really disappointed. I also feel like the overall difficulty is too easy, the combat feels a bit too fast. Doing some T3 instances as DPS Champion the combat feels way more spammy than it was back then.. I dunno if this is a recent change, but it was actually pretty tiresome to keep a constant high DPS after a few instance runs. Especially coming from FFXIV.

    I started to lose interest in Lotro with HD/Gondor, epic battles wasn't my thing and Gondor had very few instances. I hated the class changes in HD, and still dislike it(even if it is better now). Give me old trait system back!! The best days for me was pre f2p/early f2p era. With the success of wow classic, would it be possible to get a pre f2p server of Lotro? Most preferably SOA that would eventually progress into Siege of Mirkwood?

    I tested the legendary servers also, but it was definitely not the original experience. It lacks everything that made SOA great IMO. Where are all the group quests? :O

    With that being said, I will see if I buy the new expansion.. So far I might do it just for the story, maybe run a few instances. But I would seriously buy the most expensive SOA package+lifetime sub if you decide to re-release
    Last edited by why-becauseIcan; Sep 20 2021 at 07:28 AM.

  2. #2
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    SSG pretty much made it clear that they will not make a SoA classic server.
    "Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your children when you wanted to."

  3. #3
    The reasons being:

    The work it would take to make a "Classic" Server (meaning all the old content *and mechanics* but ALSO 14 years of bug fixes and QOL improvements) would be on par with making a whole new game... but doing it in a *20 year old engine*

    ... with the skeleton crew they've had for years now.

    It's much more likely we get a LotRO 2.0 (after a hypothetical massive investment in SSG) that incorporates all your favorite whatevers than a "Classic" server.
    Landroval - The Council of the Secret Fire Friendly, Casual, Mature, and always seeking more!
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  4. #4
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    The closest thing we are ever likely to get is Treebeard playing on deadly-0 difficulty. This somewhat approximates the original difficulty.

    One can still easily get to 50 without ever grouping but a lot of people do group there because that is why they went there in the first place.

    Shadowfax has the difficulty but the feel isn't the same with experience coming so quickly and it is far less populated the last time I looked.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidmeetHal View Post
    SSG pretty much made it clear that they will not make a SoA classic server.
    Oh they have? That's a shame!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by why-becauseIcan View Post
    Oh they have? That's a shame!
    They can barely support the baseline game.
    Dagoreth (Warden) and Belechannas (Lore-master) of Arkenstone

    < No Dorfs >
    Fighting the Dorf menace to Middle Earth since 2008

  7. #7
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    Its unfortunate, but generally SSG doesn't believe in classic Lotro, they think it doesn't have enough QOL. I have never seen SSG mention the cost, but that they don't like to "revert" millions of bug fixes(?) which doesn't make any sense. They also don't like the slow walking speed we had on NPCs back then, and that would OFC be impossible to fix. I think MOL is the one who have made comments regarding classic Lotro.

    And according to some people here it will cost hundreds of millions of dollars and is completely impossible. At the same time, over at Warhammer Online, these fans have not only made a functional private server, but also released new and never before seen content. All this for free and in their spare time. A game released in 2008, and shut down in 2013.
    https://www.gamespot.com/articles/lo.../1100-6496362/

    And why would they introduce a game which is designed with a monthly sub, when they can fish whales in the live game through the Lotro Store?

  8. #8
    SSG basically has stated it would be more likely to get a brand new game than a Classic LOTRO Server and a "LOTRO 2.0" isn't even in the cards so that should sum up the likelihood of a Classic LOTRO Server.

  9. #9
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    Regarding a classic server, we don't need one and never needed one. All SSG has to do is go through all the old content and re-balance it to fit in the framework of the modern game.

    Minas Morgul, our current expansion, is much more balanced and challenging (as far as raids go) than the original game ever was, we also have years of QoL improvements baked into the game that most people will not enjoy losing.

    If you simply balanced all old content, brought a consistent tiering system to dungeons from level 50 to current cap, fixed loot tables, and did some class balance work you would give players the best experience.
    Servers: Treebeard | Arkenstone | Landroval
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    Regarding a classic server, we don't need one and never needed one. All SSG has to do is go through all the old content and re-balance it to fit in the framework of the modern game.

    Minas Morgul, our current expansion, is much more balanced and challenging (as far as raids go) than the original game ever was, we also have years of QoL improvements baked into the game that most people will not enjoy losing.

    If you simply balanced all old content, brought a consistent tiering system to dungeons from level 50 to current cap, fixed loot tables, and did some class balance work you would give players the best experience.
    Just a small correction to this statement.

    Current Expansion is War of Three Peaks, even though it is officially now called a Mini-Expansion and where the game's endgame focus is.

    Minas Morgul is the overall start of the Level 130 experience and plays differently to what is encountered later in the Level 130 Life Cycle of Content as Players, Enemies, etc are more powerful than the starting Level 130 experience.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog548 View Post
    The reasons being:

    The work it would take to make a "Classic" Server (meaning all the old content *and mechanics* but ALSO 14 years of bug fixes and QOL improvements) would be on par with making a whole new game... but doing it in a *20 year old engine*

    ... with the skeleton crew they've had for years now.

    It's much more likely we get a LotRO 2.0 (after a hypothetical massive investment in SSG) that incorporates all your favorite whatevers than a "Classic" server.
    Another reason why this is not being done is that just like with Bullroarer, it would require a completely separate client. People interested in such a server would have to find space on their hard drive for a 2nd set of 30 GB (or a 3rd set if 30 GB if you have bullroarer) and that means they would have to support two separate codebases for the same game, and they just got everything to a single codebase with the demise of the Mac client.

    That alone is a hinderance, and a gross waste of diskspace on many people's computers.

    A second issue is that the "classic" server would catch up to more modern code within about 2 years or so, depending on how fast they roll out expansions. One of the things people did not like is the trait trees, but the reality is that they are goin to be introduced anyways when that classic server reaches level 95 cap.

    They also mentioned that the old code would not run on their current infrastructure, OS, dependencies, etc.... which would as you have said above already pretty much mean a complete re-write of the early game.

    And yeah, SSG is on a skeleton crew, and they simply do not have the resources to take on something like this. IF EG7 wants to invest money into the LOTR franchise, it is more likely they will hire people to create a "LOTRO 2.0" or a different named MMO that plays in Middle Earth. The 2007 code of LOTRO is gone, and won't be coming back. SSG has about 50 employees, whereas Blizzard has about 9,500 employees as of August 2021, so they have a LOT more resources. I do not know how many people it took, but they could have thrown a 100 employees at the project to build WoW Classic, and still have 9,400 employees to support their games.

    So yeah, NOT going to happen.

    I would honestly welcome a modern engine remake of LOTRO though, that started out again in Eriador only and level 1-30.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" and "In The Near Future™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the words, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™", "Near", and "Future" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  12. #12
    At the benefit dinner before the last Blizzcon (October 2019), after a few glasses of wine I tried to convince the WoW dev (Morgan Day, incredibly cool guy to talk to) sitting at my table that Blizzard should buy out LotRO ("the ultimate IP!" I insisted) and invest the resources to really do it justice.

    I don't think I convinced him, but hey - there'll be more Blizzcons!
    Dagoreth (Warden) and Belechannas (Lore-master) of Arkenstone

    < No Dorfs >
    Fighting the Dorf menace to Middle Earth since 2008

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by LagunaD2 View Post
    At the benefit dinner before the last Blizzcon (October 2019), after a few glasses of wine I tried to convince the WoW dev (Morgan Day, incredibly cool guy to talk to) sitting at my table that Blizzard should buy out LotRO ("the ultimate IP!" I insisted) and invest the resources to really do it justice.

    I don't think I convinced him, but hey - there'll be more Blizzcons!
    Blizzard coming anywhere near LOTRO or anything LOTR would be a death sentence from a PR perspective in the current climate

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    Regarding a classic server, we don't need one and never needed one. All SSG has to do is go through all the old content and re-balance it to fit in the framework of the modern game.

    Minas Morgul, our current expansion, is much more balanced and challenging (as far as raids go) than the original game ever was, we also have years of QoL improvements baked into the game that most people will not enjoy losing.

    If you simply balanced all old content, brought a consistent tiering system to dungeons from level 50 to current cap, fixed loot tables, and did some class balance work you would give players the best experience.
    Many people want SOA to get away from all tiers, essences, LIs and gimmicks introduced over the years. SOA wasn't perfect, but overall it was just way better tuned and had much better character progress/item progress etc..with no p2w. There are no simple fixes like you mention for outdated endgame levels, they can't even make the content at 130 relevant.

    I couldn't care less about some high tuned raids, if I want that I go to wow or any other MMO which does it way better without p2w. I want SOA because of the whole journey, not just for some raids at the cap. The raids in a classic version would just be a bonus and tons of fun. Farming 5 tiers of Remmo/FOKD isn't fun for long, and its hard to find players for it, since it's like 1% of the population actually doing high-tier raids.

  15. #15
    PvMP in the last two books of SoA was probably the best-balanced and most fun it's ever been, too.

    Sadly, there's no going back.
    Dagoreth (Warden) and Belechannas (Lore-master) of Arkenstone

    < No Dorfs >
    Fighting the Dorf menace to Middle Earth since 2008

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjute View Post
    Many people want SOA to get away from all tiers, essences, LIs and gimmicks introduced over the years. SOA wasn't perfect, but overall it was just way better tuned and had much better character progress/item progress etc..with no p2w. There are no simple fixes like you mention for outdated endgame levels, they can't even make the content at 130 relevant.

    I couldn't care less about some high tuned raids, if I want that I go to wow or any other MMO which does it way better without p2w. I want SOA because of the whole journey, not just for some raids at the cap. The raids in a classic version would just be a bonus and tons of fun. Farming 5 tiers of Remmo/FOKD isn't fun for long, and its hard to find players for it, since it's like 1% of the population actually doing high-tier raids.
    What you are describing is basically Treebeard. It's all SoA content, you can pick your difficulty, there really aren't any P2W gimmicks except for stat tomes which unfortunately have a huge impact. The only other big difference is trait trees, but that will never be something they would undo for a classic experience.

    The main issues with Treebeard are things it seems like you don't care about (raid content and end game progression). If you set your difficulty to deadly or higher you can get a very similar challenge to original SoA, and even harder in some cases on D6.
    Servers: Treebeard | Arkenstone | Landroval
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    What you are describing is basically Treebeard. It's all SoA content, you can pick your difficulty, there really aren't any P2W gimmicks except for stat tomes which unfortunately have a huge impact. The only other big difference is trait trees, but that will never be something they would undo for a classic experience.

    The main issues with Treebeard are things it seems like you don't care about (raid content and end game progression). If you set your difficulty to deadly or higher you can get a very similar challenge to original SoA, and even harder in some cases on D6.
    I care about endgame progression, but I don't care much about the current endgame. There are too many p2w elements, and I generally don't like the 5 tier system. I play other MMOs for raid progression. However, the PVMP, dungeons, raids and levelling in SOA would keep me busy for years. I tested treebeard, it was a bad experience. Broken itemization, broken instance/raid difficulty, almost no one grouped up and population issues appeared early on. The epic quests didn't scale to the difficulty. Crafting was p2w, levelling was p2w along with the stat tomes, damage and mitigation boosts also p2w.. The list goes on and on.. IMO the difficulty slider didn't make it remotely close to an SOA server. Also, I didn't like the optional landscape difficulty. I prefer everyone playing on an even field. Original SOA wasn't crazy overturned, it just required you to pay attention.. Group quests actually made you group up, and there were TONS of them, soloing raids/dungeons wasn't a thing.

    This is just me explaining why I prefer original SOA, I am not trying to make you like it. This is just my opinion. You cannot change my mind here, just accept some people doesn't prefer QoL/p2w elements in MMOs. For me, it feels like it undermines all progression and what's supposed to be accomplishments.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harvain View Post
    Blizzard coming anywhere near LOTRO or anything LOTR would be a death sentence from a PR perspective in the current climate
    Man, that's no lie! You cannot make up the stuff that's been going on over there.
    "Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your children when you wanted to."

  19. #19
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    I am sure it will survive but more than one screw has come loose over there.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LagunaD2 View Post
    At the benefit dinner before the last Blizzcon (October 2019), after a few glasses of wine I tried to convince the WoW dev (Morgan Day, incredibly cool guy to talk to) sitting at my table that Blizzard should buy out LotRO ("the ultimate IP!" I insisted) and invest the resources to really do it justice.

    I don't think I convinced him, but hey - there'll be more Blizzcons!
    I'm sure some game studio IS going to buy rights to the IP and create a new Lord of the Rings game at some point...... but I am kind of hoping it will never be Blizzard.

    The time to capitalize on the Lord of the Rings IP is now, and sooner rather than later. We will have a huge television production coming up on Amazon (said to be the most expensive in history), and as Amazon operates worldwide these days, it will stream in 100+ countries as soon as it launches, and the game company that manages to capitalize on that will likely have a successful game for years to come.

    The TV series is going to focus on the 2nd Age.... we have seen some glimpses of that in LOTRO already such as the Mordor Besieged zone, and I expect more 2nd Age "time travel" so to speak in future expansions that will have to do with the upcoming series..... but I do believe that the time for a new Middle Earth based MMO has come. New Engine. New modern game features and graphics. A start from absolute zero. It is said that EG7 is developing a game in some "very substantial" IP, so this COULD be Middle Earth, but as they also own rights to Marvel and have Everquest, it could as well go those ways. Everquest 3 has been rumored (and partially worked on) for years, so who knows.

    But please.... let Blizzard keep their hands off of Lord of the Rings.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" and "In The Near Future™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the words, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™", "Near", and "Future" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    I'm sure some game studio IS going to buy rights to the IP and create a new Lord of the Rings game at some point...... but I am kind of hoping it will never be Blizzard.

    The time to capitalize on the Lord of the Rings IP is now, and sooner rather than later. We will have a huge television production coming up on Amazon (said to be the most expensive in history), and as Amazon operates worldwide these days, it will stream in 100+ countries as soon as it launches, and the game company that manages to capitalize on that will likely have a successful game for years to come.

    The TV series is going to focus on the 2nd Age.... we have seen some glimpses of that in LOTRO already such as the Mordor Besieged zone, and I expect more 2nd Age "time travel" so to speak in future expansions that will have to do with the upcoming series..... but I do believe that the time for a new Middle Earth based MMO has come. New Engine. New modern game features and graphics. A start from absolute zero. It is said that EG7 is developing a game in some "very substantial" IP, so this COULD be Middle Earth, but as they also own rights to Marvel and have Everquest, it could as well go those ways. Everquest 3 has been rumored (and partially worked on) for years, so who knows.

    But please.... let Blizzard keep their hands off of Lord of the Rings.
    Well frankly the best time to have done it were during and after the Shadow of games since those teo reinvigorated ppl's desires to play a LOTR game set in the same universe.

    The amazon tv show would ideally be on the same lvl, but given it's Amazon + games on tv shows or movies usually create a different mindset for how the game should look. Similar to how the LOTR movies create a different mindset in wanting for a strategy like the BFME series. Though admittedly in both cases it is subjective, but hopefully once changes are made we can gain traction for LOTRO or maybe the if revenues are in the millions they could consider making a LOTRO 2.0 set in the FA-SA?

    (with the liscensing ofc)

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by wrath247 View Post
    Well frankly the best time to have done it were during and after the Shadow of games since those teo reinvigorated ppl's desires to play a LOTR game set in the same universe.

    The amazon tv show would ideally be on the same lvl, but given it's Amazon + games on tv shows or movies usually create a different mindset for how the game should look. Similar to how the LOTR movies create a different mindset in wanting for a strategy like the BFME series. Though admittedly in both cases it is subjective, but hopefully once changes are made we can gain traction for LOTRO or maybe the if revenues are in the millions they could consider making a LOTRO 2.0 set in the FA-SA?

    (with the liscensing ofc)
    A LOTRO 2.0 is off the table at least from the sense of something akin to this LOTRO having a successor. The price tag for creating modern MMORPGS, let alone Gaming in general has gone up to insane values since LOTRO was developed and launched in 2007 and unless Amazon would give a blank check this won't be occurring. If there is ever another Lord of the Rings MMORPG it will be far different to this one.

    Any MMORPG with a LOTR setting that isn't already being worked on would come out 3 to 5 years after the Amazon LOTR TV Series has it's First Season air and there is nothing to ensure that The Lord of the Rings won't receive treatment akin to Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, so on and so forth where either the start or not long after the start of said Series causes far more issues and problems for the overall Franchise IP than good it did beyond Revenue Numbers being large.

    The LOTR IP will be entering the most dangerous time period since Tolkien first published his works, in Late 2022 with the upcoming Amazon LOTR TV Series which could easily and quickly become an even bigger controversy than even the 3 Hobbit movies.

    May Eru have mercy on us all.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by bjute View Post
    At the same time, over at Warhammer Online, these fans have not only made a functional private server, but also released new and never before seen content. All this for free and in their spare time. A game released in 2008, and shut down in 2013.
    https://www.gamespot.com/articles/lo.../1100-6496362/
    That is amazing, did they get the server code from Mythic after they shut down the servers?
    Last edited by why-becauseIcan; Sep 23 2021 at 04:24 AM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by why-becauseIcan View Post
    That is amazing, did they get the server code from Mythic after they shut down the servers?
    They got greenlight for running a private server. But the server code wasn't provided. Its built from the ground up by reverse engineering. So even if SSG has lost the SOA server code, they could still potentially build a new server that the old client can speak to. That's basically how all wow private servers are made, and not by "stolen code" that some people throw around.

 

 

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