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  1. #51
    I guess SSG forgot they destroyed this class.

    Bump. Read this thread SSG.

  2. #52
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    Jan 2007
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    103
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubja View Post
    I guess SSG forgot they destroyed this class.

    Bump. Read this thread SSG.
    Wouldnt say that just yet if you had read the main thread on it but they only had changes going through burglar. My guess is they have champ stuff but didnt get it in this week as only Beorn, Brawler, and Burglar had changes.... Next would be Captain then Champ etc.... Now if there was nothing next week id be freaking out but the hyperbole is a bit premature.

  3. #53
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    May 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khluzainn View Post
    Wouldnt say that just yet if you had read the main thread on it but they only had changes going through burglar. My guess is they have champ stuff but didnt get it in this week as only Beorn, Brawler, and Burglar had changes.... Next would be Captain then Champ etc.... Now if there was nothing next week id be freaking out but the hyperbole is a bit premature.
    My guess is they will do a simple damage modifier to increase champ damage overall. I don't like this because it will be very easy to under or overshoot, and it will potentially create more imbalance between skills. Last thing I want is for this change to introduce more champ skills becoming useless and the rotation getting dumbed down even further.

    There is a massive glaring issue with champ DPS right now, it's so badly out of whack that I am 100% confident they will do some sort of modifier before this gets released, but I am also confident they won't spend any real time trying to improve the player experience with this class. I really don't want champs to have boring slow paced combat where a number of skills are useless, but I fear this will be the outcome.

    There's simply too much to fix across so many classes, best we can do as players is expect the bare minimum and hopefully get a nice surprise here and there.
    Servers: Treebeard | Arkenstone | Landroval
    Classes: Hunter | Champion | Loremaster | Warden | Beorning

  4. #54
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    Jan 2007
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    103
    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    My guess is they will do a simple damage modifier to increase champ damage overall. I don't like this because it will be very easy to under or overshoot, and it will potentially create more imbalance between skills. Last thing I want is for this change to introduce more champ skills becoming useless and the rotation getting dumbed down even further.

    There is a massive glaring issue with champ DPS right now, it's so badly out of whack that I am 100% confident they will do some sort of modifier before this gets released, but I am also confident they won't spend any real time trying to improve the player experience with this class. I really don't want champs to have boring slow paced combat where a number of skills are useless, but I fear this will be the outcome.

    There's simply too much to fix across so many classes, best we can do as players is expect the bare minimum and hopefully get a nice surprise here and there.
    I like how outspoken you and the champ community has been becasue my gut says they wont get it right. At a minimum I would hope for the crit mag legacy returning with like a 20-30% dmg increase to account for weapons swapping.

    What I really hope for and probably wont get is 150% crit mag being built into red/yellow line somehow or into red line and like 100% skill dmg in blade(yellow) skillings in the set bonuses. PLUS editing every champ skill in the game to hit for its hardest value either 1h or 2h. So people can play what they want. Doubt this will be the path they choose but one can dream... I dont think its time for champs to go nuts yet but if there is no word of exact champ ideas or changes by next weeks patch or some kind of address of it I would start making a ruckess then.

    I am also not sure how this beta is suppost to go. They call it an early beta? So is this like Alha 2 and we will have Alpha 1-4 and then in a month or 2 have Beta 1-3? Or in one month is it all just going live? That can make a huge difference to our opinions and how chill we are about things

  5. #55
    Cordovan said this goes live in a few weeks

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    103
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubja View Post
    Cordovan said this goes live in a few weeks
    Oh Sheeeeit, better hurry up and finish my PC build

  7. #57
    So 2 handed weapons are useless if this is the "balancing" done by Vastin to make up for the removal of weapon swapping



    Dual wield skills with higher base damages on some hits lmao; and the 2h animations are absolutely awful.

  8. #58
    Dps is better than it was before but still trails behind live w/ weapon swapping.

    Skill usages are ofc worse than live due to this pepega fero cd nerf throwing eerything out of whack.


    Quick live parse

    The nerfed CD on Ferocious strikes is absolutely horrible to play with. Please please please revert this back to 9s; as it is now it doesn't line up with anything and you're almost forced to wait around for it. I also do not understand why this was nerfed in the first place!

    Deep strikes bleeds have been nerfed into the floor too, they were already worthless lol.

    I stand by all the points on my original post. Please SSG, listen and act. this class is worse than it is on live meanwhile hunters are parsing 470k+ on BR. This isn't balance.

    AND WRITE COMPLETE PATCH NOTES!

  9. #59
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    Jan 2007
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    103
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubja View Post
    Dps is better than it was before but still trails behind live w/ weapon swapping.

    Skill usages are ofc worse than live due to this pepega fero cd nerf throwing eerything out of whack.


    Quick live parse

    The nerfed CD on Ferocious strikes is absolutely horrible to play with. Please please please revert this back to 9s; as it is now it doesn't line up with anything and you're almost forced to wait around for it. I also do not understand why this was nerfed in the first place!

    Deep strikes bleeds have been nerfed into the floor too, they were already worthless lol.

    I stand by all the points on my original post. Please SSG, listen and act. this class is worse than it is on live meanwhile hunters are parsing 470k+ on BR. This isn't balance.

    AND WRITE COMPLETE PATCH NOTES!
    Wait was somthing done for champs?

  10. #60
    Yeah they tried to boost the damage to account for the loss of weapon swapping. Obviously not in the patch notes, had to work it out by looking at skill tooltips because SSG : )

  11. #61
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    May 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubja View Post
    The nerfed CD on Ferocious strikes is absolutely horrible to play with. Please please please revert this back to 9s; as it is now it doesn't line up with anything and you're almost forced to wait around for it. I also do not understand why this was nerfed in the first place!
    I haven't tested this myself so just going off what you are saying, but as a general rule can SSG please stop messing with cooldowns as a way to push 'balance'? Every time you extend CD's on a DPS skill you completely destroy their rotation. Remember barrage CD on blue hunters? Nobody has touched blue hunter since. Remember RKs at the beginning of MM? Their rotation turned horribly awkward and nobody played DPS RK for a year.

    DPS classes are about fluid damage, throwing in weird CD increases only frustrates players.

    With all that said why on earth are we seeing nerfs to anything for champ right now? The double gut punch of weapon swapping being disabled and the legacies getting torn apart already turned champs into paper weights.

    When doing anything with the champ at this point, please ask yourself:

    1) Will this increase DPS? (if no, don't do it)
    2) Will this make combat slower? (if yes, don't do it)
    3) Will this make combat less engaging and dumbed down (if yes, don't do it)
    Servers: Treebeard | Arkenstone | Landroval
    Classes: Hunter | Champion | Loremaster | Warden | Beorning

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubja View Post
    So 2 handed weapons are useless if this is the "balancing" done
    Apparently it's not DPS that matters, it's just D.
    Argendauss, Captain
    Rechart, Warden
    Hrodgart, Beorning
    Gunnart, Guardian

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubja View Post
    So you're telling me these changes made it through internal and palantir testing and got the nod? You need new testers on both!
    Palantir looks like a facade to me. I used to be a tester there when Minas Morgul was being tested. People DO report things on Palantir. These things just aren't being addressed, and some testers get quietly suspended from the program. People are silent about this because NDA, but I couldn't care less now.
    Kelewon, Brandywine

  14. #64
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubja View Post
    I want them to not dumpster the class.
    I have 0 faith that they understand how to balance it.
    Therefore yes, i want the crit legacy back
    I think that's the biggest problem right there....
    Even without touching any system whatsoever , it took them years to find time to bring classes on a decent balance stage...
    Some tracery choices on various classes makes it obvious they have no clue what they are doing and don't play the classes they try to balance. At least not on end-game , where balance actually matters.
    I am also unsure of how efficiently they can change the code , even when they want to or how many new problems that will cause.
    Perhaps they should have left all class legacies/traceries as is , and worry about balancing them on a later date. Focus on the LI system itself and on brawler ofc.
    Too late for that i guess....
    I admire the optimism some people had before BR begun , but it seems some things never change , and good old $$G is still going strong.
    When it comes to class balance we start all over again , it will take multiple months ( if not years ) to bring classes anywhere near the ''live balance''.
    Does anywhere here really believe there will be many more BR builds ?
    Till then , enjoy your hunters...

    PS. Also , something i don't see mentioned much. Most people use the gold ( legendary ) traceries for their tests , but do we know whether these will be available ? They should be raid only , right ? Gundabad raids onwards or backwards also ? Too many questions..
    There's a good chance we'll be playing without them for a while and some players will never get them at all , unlike the current live legacies which were perfectly accessible even to casuals , as long as they understood the basics of the LI system.
    So in reality , the problem is bigger than it seems , since many will play with less potent traceries ( purple,teals etc ).
    Last edited by BotLike; Sep 18 2021 at 03:30 AM.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
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    1,920
    Been working on my cyan to purple expectations acceptance for a few days now. Little progress as yet.

  16. #66
    I have been working mostly with teals though knowing there is a 10% relative percentage boost drop using purples versus teals during my testing. I will probably start with purple and expect rare teal drops in T2 and more frequent in T3 ongoing. Only real killer is AoE targets which is +1/+2/+3/+4 and thus is more critical to get higher teal to legendary.

    Still, mostly seems workable with purples to start landscape/T1/T2 as an optimistic outlook.

  17. #67
    bumpers

    Class still at the bottom of the dps pecking order on BR. behind red guard still

  18. #68
    Wow it took like 8 years to get us to a solid & enjoyable place since trait lines completely ruined it altogether. EIGHT. And now this is arguably worse. Simplify rotations more than they already are (theres literally like 5-6 skills), no swapping, weird unnecessary changes (ebbing ire tactical mitigation on a detaunt? what? why not address.... skills that we don't use or ask to be addressed?). Remove a small a fun nuance because it's been so widespread.

    Man I'm floored. I'm really not even looking forward to the expansion at this point, class is a mess.
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.



  19. #69
    Well isn't this nice. I foolishly bought the new expansion in pre-order because I wanted to support the new direction of SSG, and of course they specifically mess up the only character I have geared up and level capped, so I won't be able to enjoy the endgame content I payed for. Beyond parody.

    Might this be worth a thread in the general?

  20. #70
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    3,348
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorandril View Post
    Wow it took like 8 years to get us to a solid & enjoyable place since trait lines completely ruined it altogether. EIGHT. And now this is arguably worse. Simplify rotations more than they already are (theres literally like 5-6 skills), no swapping, weird unnecessary changes (ebbing ire tactical mitigation on a detaunt? what? why not address.... skills that we don't use or ask to be addressed?). Remove a small a fun nuance because it's been so widespread.

    Man I'm floored. I'm really not even looking forward to the expansion at this point, class is a mess.
    I can’t blame them for not knowing what they’re doing with swapping...if you read the general forums there were dozens of pages worth of posts on the topic and the loudest voices were mostly casuals on a mission to end a mechanic they don’t even need to use or understand. You pair that with SSG letting swapping turn into a way to get the actual skills and stats we need through LIs it was obvious they were going to take the dumbed down easy route rather than actually replacing it with something to keep combat engaging.

    They really ####ed champions....I’m still salty about it, and the worst part is my absolute pie in the sky expectation is that we will end up with an uninteresting, slow, dumbed down class with scaled up base damage so we aren’t 50 percent behind hunters and wardens.
    Servers: Treebeard | Arkenstone | Landroval
    Classes: Hunter | Champion | Loremaster | Warden | Beorning

  21. #71
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    Oct 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubja View Post
    I guess SSG forgot they destroyed this class.

    Bump. Read this thread SSG.
    Co-incidence that the champ gets destroyed at the same time another melee class gets introduced
    my tinfoil hat suddenly starts to twitch

  22. #72
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by fealegwe2 View Post
    Co-incidence that the champ gets destroyed at the same time another melee class gets introduced
    my tinfoil hat suddenly starts to twitch
    Brawler being the one melee class parsing lower DPS than Champions.
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

  23. #73

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    Brawler being the one melee class parsing lower DPS than Champions.

    I didn't know captains become ranged class.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC7SBISVGLMxNDhlhvZiReA/videos

    "Nolomir" R11 Captain - "Nolofin" R11 Warden

  24. #74

    Cool

    I don't understand why everyone is crying for champions. You have to understand that this is a meta.

    Remember that Fire RK was very bad for a long time. It later re-entered the meta. The same was true for Lightning RK last years. Many examples like this exist in the past. Champions have been very strong for a long time, maybe they need a break.

    Or maybe just a sales campaign for Brawler.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC7SBISVGLMxNDhlhvZiReA/videos

    "Nolomir" R11 Captain - "Nolofin" R11 Warden

  25. #75
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nolomir View Post
    I didn't know captains become ranged class.
    They didn't, Captains pull higher DPS than Brawlers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nolomir View Post
    I don't understand why everyone is crying for champions. You have to understand that this is a meta.
    Rotating what class/spec is "meta" isn't the goal of any game. It's a byproduct of balancing. The goal is generally always for all specs to be meta, it's just not something that's realistically possible so developers wind up trying to just get things "close enough" which will result in various specs rising and falling over time.
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

 

 
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