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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellemere View Post
    Are people really sure they want what they are asking for? What point would you like to hop on at? Prior to the crafting change from mob drops to shards? Not being able to talk to NPC's on a steed? Entering MP via Fell Scrying Pools? Grinding, and it was a grind to get to level 35 for a horse only to realise that you have nowhere near the 4g 250s to purchase one?

    I fondly remember those days the natural progression from grouping up for Bone Man moving on to the Great Barrow, Garth Agarwen, Fornost and beyond, however today time seems to be a persons most important commodity and a lot of the old SOA game took a lot of time. I don't think it would be as welcomed as some of the posters make out. The three instances I mentioned would return to their original states. No wings, no instance finder. Fornost in particular used to take forever especially to do all of the quests. Again I look back fondly on those times and indeed if the game hadn't made those QoL improvements no doubt I'd still be happy with them but having played with them for so long to return to them would seem like taking a TARDIS back to the dark ages.
    Every feature that you consider a weak point is in fact a strength of SoA and is exactly why people want to play it. I want horses to be harder to acquire. I CERTAINLY don't want the instance finder, that feature did so much to ruin the game. This is Middle-Earth-- I want to travel and see the world. At no point was I annoyed that I had to meet my group at the entrance of the instance.

    Anything which is called a QoL improvement is precisely the opposite. Whenever devs begin rolling those out , the quality of the game nosedives

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by BadJuju View Post
    Every feature that you consider a weak point is in fact a strength of SoA and is exactly why people want to play it. I want horses to be harder to acquire. I CERTAINLY don't want the instance finder, that feature did so much to ruin the game. This is Middle-Earth-- I want to travel and see the world. At no point was I annoyed that I had to meet my group at the entrance of the instance.

    Anything which is called a QoL improvement is precisely the opposite. Whenever devs begin rolling those out , the quality of the game nosedives
    I completely agree. So many players nowadays want instant gratification. I don't see the point of getting to the end as fast as possible. It's about the journey and I want things to matter again and be rewarding. I don't want an instance finder that teleports you right into the instance, I don't want to be able to skip levels and content, I don't want to level faster by getting more experience, I don't want to be able to spend mithril points and get to the next destination instantly, I don't want a quest tracker, I don't want to be able to see the entire map without exploring it first, I don't want to be able to buy virtues or xp enhancers, I don't want so many simple kill x quests without a story, I don't want to be able to buy a horse so early in the game, even small things like mounting more quickly are completely unnecessary.

    It's like they've spent the last couple of years trying to make everything easier and faster. Anything to get you faster to where you want to be, instead of letting you enjoy the game. I don't understand this rush to get to the endgame and run the same instances over and over again.
    "The leaves were long, the grass was green, The hemlock-umbels tall and fair, And in the glade a light was seen Of stars in shadow shimmering.
    Tinuviel was dancing there To music of a pipe unseen, And light of stars was in her hair, And in her raiment glimmering. [...]" ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

  3. #53
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    3,083
    Honestly we do not need a 'classic' server. All we need is for SSG to fix all the broken scaling and systems in the old game before re-releasing the content in the form of legendary servers. I would much rather play in today's game with all the bugs fixed and QOL improvements than I would want to replay Shadows of Angmar days.

    All they need to do is slow down leveling, make content harder, and most importantly FIX broken loot tables, instance scaling, and systems that were introduced after these areas existed and completely ruin them today (i.e. essences at level 50).
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  4. #54
    I saw this video a couple of days ago and it made me think of Lotro.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5Hzh43k330

    There was also a thread on Reddit about it: https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...rcraft_carbot/
    "The leaves were long, the grass was green, The hemlock-umbels tall and fair, And in the glade a light was seen Of stars in shadow shimmering.
    Tinuviel was dancing there To music of a pipe unseen, And light of stars was in her hair, And in her raiment glimmering. [...]" ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    Honestly we do not need a 'classic' server. All we need is for SSG to fix all the broken scaling and systems in the old game before re-releasing the content in the form of legendary servers. I would much rather play in today's game with all the bugs fixed and QOL improvements than I would want to replay Shadows of Angmar days.

    All they need to do is slow down leveling, make content harder, and most importantly FIX broken loot tables, instance scaling, and systems that were introduced after these areas existed and completely ruin them today (i.e. essences at level 50).
    To make live lotro a "progression' style game once more, they would have to revamp the entire game in order to make each level cap difficult and "fun". They've stated that they don't want to do this and that their goal is to, obversely, streamline the experience.

    Live lotro has a nature which is fundamentally different and opposed to classic lotro. That nature will not change. As each year passed in the lifetime of this game, they have concertedly subverted the fundament of classic lotro to build a game which is easier, presents almost no obstacle to the leveler, and is focused on end-game. What you ask I have asked for as well, trust me. But they will not change the whole foundation of their game.

    The place to experience such a game would be on a classic server.

  6. #56
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    Feb 2019
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    1,461
    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    Honestly we do not need a 'classic' server. All we need is for SSG to fix all the broken scaling and systems in the old game before re-releasing the content in the form of legendary servers. I would much rather play in today's game with all the bugs fixed and QOL improvements than I would want to replay Shadows of Angmar days.

    All they need to do is slow down leveling, make content harder, and most importantly FIX broken loot tables, instance scaling, and systems that were introduced after these areas existed and completely ruin them today (i.e. essences at level 50).
    Even if they put in a lot of effort into everything you mention it will miss so many things that the original SOA had.

    We will still miss:
    • The legacy trait system
    • Legacy class skills/balance
    • All landscape/epic group quests
    • Deed system that allowed you to get rare skills
    • Legacy crafting system
    • Complete versions of dungeons
    • The original stat system/balance
    • PVMP
    • Original threat system
    • The original aggro radius of mobs
    • Original gear progression
    • Original landscape tuning/difficulty


    Also, let's not forget to mention the store that completely takes away from the original experience.


    Why would anyone sign up for a second round of this mess.. Personally, it's either a true classic server or a big no to legendary worlds. The only thing they will add is a difficulty slider that everyone can ignore.

    Let's be real, it won't happen. But don't ask for devs to waste their time on these legendary worlds that didn't last for more than a month last time around. The amount of work they would need to do to get it as close as possible with the current game = more work than releasing a classic server.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post

    We will still miss:
    • The legacy trait system
    • Legacy class skills/balance
    • All landscape/epic group quests
    • Deed system that allowed you to get rare skills
    • Legacy crafting system
    • Complete versions of dungeons
    • The original stat system/balance
    • PVMP
    • Original threat system
    • The original aggro radius of mobs
    • Original gear progression
    • Original landscape tuning/difficulty

    /B]

    I'd like to add:

    1. Stacking dread on defeat
    2. No infinite swift travel
    3. Hard-to-acquire mounts
    4. Class trainers
    5. Fog of war

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,136
    Quote Originally Posted by Pontin_Finnberry View Post
    I suggested once they bring back Fog of war to the game, given a few other MMOs still have this on maps, it would be great to have the map hidden till you explore it in Lotro, I remember it very well and loved it, but was removed 6 months after i joined so didn't last long.
    I actually do miss fog of war lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    It should probably be noted that it is absolutely without a doubt impossible to bring the original SoA experience back. 100% can't be done, Blizzard couldn't even do it. WoW Classic is an insanely well done recreation of the original game and the community has turned it into something totally different from the game people played in 2004.
    This is my concern, actually. I tried wow classic about a year after it started, by the time I was high enough level to run deadmines I discovered how hard it was to find an on level group on my server -- there were plenty of people offering you to pay lots of gold to run your alt through for XP and such, but finding an actual group? We couldn't do it in the time we had to play. And one of us was a healer! And as a new player I sure didn't have the money to pay for help.

    That's just one of the differences between vanilla wow and classic I noticed. The game itself was the same (and a lot easier than most people remembered it being, especially as most private servers were actually harder than OG wow it turned out), but the players are different. Lotro could suffer from that as well. (both, actually. Something tells me the game probably WAS easier than we remember. It always felt like a slog to me. Not difficult, not hard. Just a slog.)

    And by players being different, I mean we're experienced now. In Lotro and in other games. That's a fundamental difference that can make all the difference. End game content will be cleared within a week of the first players hitting cap. Maybe sooner.

    There'd be a small, dedicated player base, though, and the question is if it will be enough to justify the cost and expense of making this work. I think they've made that calculus and decided it's not worth it. Remember, Lotro has a fraction of the player base of wow, which means it has an even smaller pool of people wanting a classic server than wow did.

    Quote Originally Posted by BadJuju View Post
    To make live lotro a "progression' style game once more, they would have to revamp the entire game in order to make each level cap difficult and "fun". They've stated that they don't want to do this and that their goal is to, obversely, streamline the experience.

    Live lotro has a nature which is fundamentally different and opposed to classic lotro. That nature will not change. As each year passed in the lifetime of this game, they have concertedly subverted the fundament of classic lotro to build a game which is easier, presents almost no obstacle to the leveler, and is focused on end-game. What you ask I have asked for as well, trust me. But they will not change the whole foundation of their game.

    The place to experience such a game would be on a classic server.

    Most MMOs older than 5 or 6 years are like this though. It's a fundamental part of the genre that older content and experiences change and become outdated. Once a level cap is raised the previous level cap no longer matters, and is no longer balanced for. I'm sure it's not the case for every MMO, but a good number of them at least.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    725
    Classic servers > Legendary servers

    legendary servers are just embarassing at this point

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    It should probably be noted that it is absolutely without a doubt impossible to bring the original SoA experience back. 100% can't be done, Blizzard couldn't even do it. WoW Classic is an insanely well done recreation of the original game and the community has turned it into something totally different from the game people played in 2004.
    Is that you think people are asking for? To literally rewind the timeline of reality by 14 years? Players who want classic aren't that stupid. They realize that what they will be playing will always have the sheen of a recreation or re-imagining.

    Everyone knows it will not be exactly the same. No one is asking for it to be.
    So I'm not sure why people raise this issue as if its an issue at all. You're misunderstanding players' desires and expectations. They believe, like wow players believed, that they will still have a blast of a time regardless of that fact that a certain novelty will never be restored. Revived classic wow was a blast even for players who played it the first time around.

    People aren't asking for their experience to be recreated, they are asking for the game to be recreated. And they expect to enjoy it even though they will be playing it under different circumstances and under a different light.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by SniperCT View Post


    Most MMOs older than 5 or 6 years are like this though. It's a fundamental part of the genre that older content and experiences change and become outdated. Once a level cap is raised the previous level cap no longer matters, and is no longer balanced for. I'm sure it's not the case for every MMO, but a good number of them at least.
    That's not really what we were discussing. The poster I was responding to said that he wanted all of the modernizations of lotro to be reversed, I said it was never going to happen because the changes are rooted too deeply into the game at this point.

  12. #62
    If SSG was going to do anything that diverts resources or requires a whole separate team it would be better off making a brand new game, engine, etc. Otherwise all time and effort should be towards making the most of what they have, cleaning out redundant systems and overhauling ones that should remain. But they pretty much have their main things going into the end of 2022 which with the Graphics Update and potential LOTRO going to consoles then or later so 2022 should be mainly focused on cleanup, improvement, etc while adding a few more Quest Packs and possible Expansion(s) to progress the game and add to older areas.

    At this point of U30.0.1 the overall story for the Third Age has only 3 key events lore wise being the overall group traveling north to the Shire and going their own ways as the Hobbits return home, the Scouring of the Shire and then the Grey Havens which end the Third Age. Thats 2 years and 2 months roughly for ingame lore as of the Wedding of Aragorn & Arwen.

    U31 wraps up the Dwarf overall story with Gundabad in terms of what happens for now as Khazad-Dum/Moria wont be reclaimed by the current Durin (who is Durin VII the last of the Durin's) until well into the Fourth Age around 170 F.A.

    Overall what they do going into 2022 and once 2022 ends with the story, progressing the overall game moving forward in the lore, the Graphical Update & LOTRO on Consoles will be interesting if the Graphical Update & LOTRO on Consoles occur then.

  13. #63
    For the most part this is exactly what I want. I mean I would not be bothered by all classes being able to play in classic, but am all about making things the way they used to be.

    Examples:

    -Traits
    -Virtues
    -No instance finder
    -Having to go to the trainer
    -Having to wait to get your mount
    -No skirmish camp
    -Waiting a proper amount of time before raising the cap so players can relive the content (important)
    -Raid and instance difficulty (Most Important) Where you actually need to get the the URU, CD, and best crafted gear just to get killed over and over in the rift until you get that set and need a full raid to complete it.

    /signed!

  14. #64
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    Oct 2019
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    1,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnno13 View Post
    For the most part this is exactly what I want. I mean I would not be bothered by all classes being able to play in classic, but am all about making things the way they used to be.

    Examples:

    -Traits
    -Virtues
    -No instance finder
    -Having to go to the trainer
    -Having to wait to get your mount
    -No skirmish camp
    -Waiting a proper amount of time before raising the cap so players can relive the content (important)
    -Raid and instance difficulty (Most Important) Where you actually need to get the the URU, CD, and best crafted gear just to get killed over and over in the rift until you get that set and need a full raid to complete it.

    /signed!

    I just wanted to say that I love that picture in your sig.
    "Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your children when you wanted to."

  15. #65
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    Sep 2016
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    5,081
    This comment got more attention than perhaps it was worth, but we do thank folks for reminding us that there are those of you out there very much interested in this kind of server. Currently, we have no plans for it, and we're no more likely today to choose this kind of "classic server" path than we were a year ago. The amount of work required would be monumental. Whether you define that amount of work as "on the table" or "off the table" I guess depends on the size of the table. Not likely to ever happen, but then again, never say never, right?
    Community Manager, Lord of the Rings Online
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    coolcool

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    383

    Cool

    Signed!

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Not likely to ever happen, but then again, never say never, right?

  18. #68
    That’s it guys, I think we need to put this dream to bed. Like cord said the task is ridiculously large and SSG simply do not currently have the manpower/resources to achieve this.

    It’s genuinely one of my biggest wishes but I think we all need to swallow the big, spikey, sour pill that is the reality of the situation, classic server is off the cards almost completely, time to move on.

    However CORD, Surely you guys can meet us in the middle and sort itemisation out for the Legendary servers? I don’t want to see lvl 60 captains with 25k morale…

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by BadJuju View Post
    You got a better chance of winning the lottery then getting a classic LOTRO server.

    The reality is that SSG doesn't have the extra manpower let alone resources to tackle this big of a project. It is also a risk for them to even do such a thing given there is no guarantee that a classic server would even be successful enough in the long run. I am sure it would be very popular at first & some time after but why put all that work & money into something when down the road the likeness fades. Not too mention I cannot see SSG ever coming up with any type of "special" server & not have the store. That is there bread & butter & I just dont see them willing to do something like this. If you have the store, it really is not a true classic server.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    200
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    This comment got more attention than perhaps it was worth, but we do thank folks for reminding us that there are those of you out there very much interested in this kind of server. Currently, we have no plans for it, and we're no more likely today to choose this kind of "classic server" path than we were a year ago. The amount of work required would be monumental. Whether you define that amount of work as "on the table" or "off the table" I guess depends on the size of the table. Not likely to ever happen, but then again, never say never, right?
    Well, thanks to both you and Raninia for at least not dodging the topic. As sad as it is, people just have to accept that it won't happen and it's time to move on.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    This comment got more attention than perhaps it was worth, but we do thank folks for reminding us that there are those of you out there very much interested in this kind of server. Currently, we have no plans for it, and we're no more likely today to choose this kind of "classic server" path than we were a year ago. The amount of work required would be monumental. Whether you define that amount of work as "on the table" or "off the table" I guess depends on the size of the table. Not likely to ever happen, but then again, never say never, right?
    People readily seem to conflate "not impossible" with "doable" when it concerns a pet project. After all, it's not impossible (or off the table) for anyone to touch their left elbow with their left hand. The question is, is it worth the multiple compound fractures, or amputation?

  22. #72
    Sorry if I'm asking a stupid question that has already been answered gazillion times, but why exactly can't they just take some old version files and go with them? Do those files simply not exist anymore, or they do, but there are some other difficulties?

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Grammulka View Post
    Sorry if I'm asking a stupid question that has already been answered gazillion times, but why exactly can't they just take some old version files and go with them? Do those files simply not exist anymore, or they do, but there are some other difficulties?
    Short answer.

    If you had a 56 Chevy up on blocks would you expect it to be able to drive from California to New York without tools, parts and a lot of work?

    Do the tools exist to build it? Compilers, linkers, loaders, …
    Was the archive (tape?) fully recoverable? 3 of 4 things I have asked my IT department to recover in the past came back “unavailable, tape corrupted”.
    What about the number (hundreds?) of bugs found since then?
    Is there expertise still around to understand the old systems?
    Does the back end server software and front end UI still work on current windows/Mac OSes? This is a big one. WoW actually ported the old content to a very much newer server/UI code base for classic.

    Been there done that. It can be a real slog.

  24. #74
    I do not need a classic server, I have zero desire to lose modern conveniences. I want the actualy game balanced, updated, working at every level range. And I want the new content added at every level range as well. Legendary servers are a goood idea, but they require work to be popular.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Arabani View Post
    I have zero desire to lose modern conveniences. I want the actualy game balanced, updated, working at every level range.
    As likely to happen as a classic server!

    Also, your second sentence negates the first. If you want the game to "work" at every level range, the convenience of being able to rush past everything with no effort would have to be removed. The conveniences you love have made entire mechanics and features of the game irrelevant. Cooks will never matter until regen is nerfed and landscape mobs are made far more difficult. The bread and butter of jewellers (hope tokens) will never matter until dread on defeat is returned. Crafted weapons and armor are useless because no part of the game is difficult enough to necessitate it. Weaponsmiths have literally nothing to do, as the genius developers have made LI's a permanent fixture of your character. Scholar buffs useless for the same reason cooking is. Currency will remain inflated and useless unless there are obstacles for which gold is the answer. So on and so forth.
    And trait trees-- very convenient they are, sparing one the laborious task of insta-porting to a class trainer and clicking a button. They've completely destroyed balance, as the majority of the game was not designed with the trait trees in mind.

    Each convenience is a little "I win" button. Who would have thought that allowing players to change the rules of a game little by little would create imbalance?

 

 
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