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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingularityNow View Post
    You're incorrect on a lot of points. First, the size of the world makes no difference to the new player. They're stuck in level bands. So it doesn't matter to the new player if Harad exists in game, they're in The Shire and months if not years from Harad.
    Not strictly true. I had thought of playing LotRO several times over the years but never did until I learned that Mordor was in the game. Far too many experiences with LotR games that never made it to Mordor and I had no desire to invest in another one that hadn't made it. Didn't matter that Mordor was a year of playing away; I needed to know it was there to reach in order to make the initial investment of my time.

    No idea if anyone cares about Harad that much, but a large game world does matter to some new players.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wispsong View Post
    The new virtue system has become way to burdened and makes sure that even finishing all deeds is not enough to cap all virtues. In fact I have problems just capping my 5 slotted through deeds alone (I had all landscape virtues when the change came, so basically all were capped). All they really needed to do to make it more player friendly, instead of a specific virtue give a virtue point to slot into any virtue. Cap virtues, done. Now they have made it an end game grind and it seems to become never ending like the ILI.
    The virtue system in this game is totally broken. It's a great concept, but the way it works now is you can pay your way to skip WAY too much content. Literally, years and years of virtue grind can be bought with a valar pack and timed so that you apply it to any character you want during a VXP bonus.

    The way that virtue stats are so bloated, and not linearly, also makes it a broken system. The difference between Level 1 to Level 69 is nothing for a L130 character, the difference between L70 and L75 is the difference between being able to participate in a raid and not.

    What was initially a wonderful idea that rewards you for doing all the content in the game has turned into another pay to win money grab.
    Erendil 50 Hunter Rank 7, Mavellen 45 Warden; Officers of Disciples
    Ragaroth Warleader Rank 7, Marhawk Stalker Rank 5; Members of Cuddle Squad
    Other Characters: Arthilius - Captain, Arthilias - Guardian,
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    The virtue system in this game is totally broken. It's a great concept, but the way it works now is you can pay your way to skip WAY too much content. Literally, years and years of virtue grind can be bought with a valar pack and timed so that you apply it to any character you want during a VXP bonus.
    Bold take, normally I'd say the bigger issue is the fact that there's "years and years of virtue grind" in the first place.
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    Bold take, normally I'd say the bigger issue is the fact that there's "years and years of virtue grind" in the first place.
    Er...actually im replying sort of to the bit in the box as well. I like playing the content through on a few of my alts (4 so far in U30, other 2 probably shelved ) but i can do this with 'progressively' poorly equipped alts as i get down the list. I could grind Virtues but the Valar option is too appealing especially with the VXP weekend bonus that is pointed out. Therefore i will pay for that and not 'play' it. I could also do the content for traitpoints on the odd alt not capped but only if i can see a benefit from the point, otherwise...nah. I could grind out embers and gold to get shards to accrue gold BiS pieces that will become obsolete...nah.

    I say all this because since January I stopped supporting the game and cancelled VIP and have only paid them £6.00 for U30. I actually find it staggering that i can play this game so much for so little.....the value for money is outstanding.

    As previously stated 'endgamers' engage in most of the facets of the game in order to flesh out their build and achieve competitive status. This however is true of PvMP players. As i currently assess it PvMP is only viable in the months following a major level update where the freeps are effectively pulled into a much tighter equipment and performance band.....until the instance/raiders latterly pull away with better and better high tier gear.

    My ongoing strategy with SSG could therefore be to go VIP at a level update , play like there is no tomorrow (and re-engage with all my Moors friends) until the play becomes unbalanced and numbers fall away , at which point i cancel VIP and start the cycle again.

    Or....SSG does something to keep PvMP players competitive through the product cycle and i then have the prospect of permanent fun in which case i open up my wallet and start splashing the cash on Valars galore to virtue up 6 alts , and play the Moors to get Moors gear on them and deliver SSG the profit they deserve for such a wonderful game....which usually involves buying all the store bought buffs i can get my grubby hands on which is also incidentally where i think SSG should be looking to derive revenues from future PvMP play.
    Happy Summer Solstice everybody....the seasons cycle on regardless.

  5. #30
    I posted this on Bullroarer as the new raid test was undergoing, somewhat as a joke, but more to the glaring inconsistency regarding ubiquitous use of the class "balance".

    Quote Originally Posted by Quazi-moto View Post
    Tank 1: Blue Warden
    Tank 2: Blue Guardian (honorary mention to Blue Champion)
    Heal 1: Blue Captain
    Heal 2: Yellow LM (just a filler role)
    DPS: Red Minstrel
    DPS: Red Guardian
    DPS: Red Beorning
    DPS: Yellow Hunter
    DPS: Blue LM
    DPS: Blue Burglar
    DPS: Blue Hunter
    DPS: Yellow Guardian (since blue guardians are already OP tanks)

    So if the devs are serious about balance, this is your end goal. This should be a viable raid if that is the goal.
    If you want a checklist for improving class viability for content, there you go.

    The absolute silence regarding warden tanking is that SSG does not want a warden tank? Numerous threads offering suggestions are available, and I even offered some <simple> fixes that could be done to upgrade them to a manageable level. I also noticed something recently when playing on captain that hits the warden so very hard, tactical mastery is attached to might on captains, so heals do scale and do appropriately heal, whereas wardens do not have tactical mastery on agility, or anywhere for that matter. Which explains why warden heals (burg heals, champ heals, etc) suck. Attaching healing to physical mastery could solve the dilemma for PM classes, but i'm sure it would be "hard" to do. Just a suggestion to fix things long term.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quazi-moto View Post
    Easy fixes to blue line Warden

    Change the function of gambits while in blue line.

    1) Dance of War - instead of evade buff, gives a crit immunity for x seconds.
    2) Boar's Rush - give blue line wardens the ability to intercept damage on fellow with x charges
    3) Dark before the Dawn - light aura on warden that gives % miss chance to enemies, increase incoming healing, finesse
    4) all of the heals %, remove morale taps, and just put heals in the Safeguard line

    Restore Determination Stance, or replace For the Free Peoples capstone as a permanent skill toggle

    1) 15% morale increase
    2) 10% damage mitigation
    3) 20 minutes of lag immunity

    Ultimately if a dev reads this. Combine gambits into tiering, as I am aware of the lag that is caused by having 40 different buffs/debuffs, would solve many of the background issues. If it means removing partial blocks, morale taps from builders, etc, just move to a concentrated combination of bleeds, light dots, etc based on the damage/healing line.

    For example, Desolation line, each gambit in the line (war cry, brink of victory, surety of death, desolation) would provide tiering points up to 10. The tier 10 should become equivalent to the 4 separate dots. War cry providing 1, bov 2, sod 3, and des 4. So instead of 4 separate light dots, you have one tier 10 dot to manage. So you could do 2 des + bov, or 3 sod + wc, to get tier 10. Each line would have it's own set of tiering.

    inb4 warden exploiting will make warden OP, i'm sure devs have numbers to crunch in the background to balance everything.

    Anyways, it doesn't really matter if a dev never plays warden, the dev will never understand warden.
    All of the traitlines should/could have a valid spot in content.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Dranak123 View Post
    As i currently assess it PvMP is only viable in the months following a major level update where the freeps are effectively pulled into a much tighter equipment and performance band.....until the instance/raiders latterly pull away with better and better high tier gear.
    Totally depends on your perspective of a creep vs a freep player. The closer to the last level cap increase we are, the more balanced things tend to be because the freeps have less access to gear, many of them are in quest gear crafted or still gear from the previous level. That is, unless things drastically go wrong where new skills or stat bloat inflate freeps to catastrophic levels in terms of dps or heals. It happens sometimes. Historically the most glaring example is the launch of Mines of Moria where hunters with a new traitline could oneshot anything I guess.

    But by and large, closer to that previous expac we are, worse gear freeps have, better creeps are. And the reverse is true too. Further from latest level cap increase, more access to better gear, pendulum switches more to freepside, which is kind of where we are now.

    But generally speaking, your pvmp freeps are mostly endgamers too because they need the gear to move the pendulum. Many want to get out of that by going with pvp gear, but it couldn't see SSG just opting out of those revenue streams tied to creating a completed endgame character.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quazi-moto View Post
    I also noticed something recently when playing on captain that hits the warden so very hard, tactical mastery is attached to might on captains, so heals do scale and do appropriately heal, whereas wardens do not have tactical mastery on agility, or anywhere for that matter. Which explains why warden heals (burg heals, champ heals, etc) suck. Attaching healing to physical mastery could solve the dilemma for PM classes, but i'm sure it would be "hard" to do.
    Wouldn't accomplish much. Outgoing healing rating is one of the smallest contributors to heal magnitude. The main one is Tactical Healing Rating, Captains/Bears have it, Wardens don't.

    As far as mastery goes it's actually a pretty good move for them to outright erase the tactical/physical mastery divide and just leave "Mastery" as a singular stat that applies to both tactical and physical damage skills. It's weird that some classes have a fairly major split of tactical/physical damage skills and they actually get penalised for that as it takes a lot more effort to cap both stats (and quite frankly isn't worth).
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    Wouldn't accomplish much. Outgoing healing rating is one of the smallest contributors to heal magnitude. The main one is Tactical Healing Rating, Captains/Bears have it, Wardens don't.

    As far as mastery goes it's actually a pretty good move for them to outright erase the tactical/physical mastery divide and just leave "Mastery" as a singular stat that applies to both tactical and physical damage skills. It's weird that some classes have a fairly major split of tactical/physical damage skills and they actually get penalised for that as it takes a lot more effort to cap both stats (and quite frankly isn't worth).
    and here i thought i found the fix to warden self heals. /sigh
    Well inadvertently it does shine the light that places both bears and captains as better tanks at self healing because of the tactical healing rating.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    The virtue system in this game is totally broken. It's a great concept, but the way it works now is you can pay your way to skip WAY too much content. Literally, years and years of virtue grind can be bought with a valar pack and timed so that you apply it to any character you want during a VXP bonus.

    The way that virtue stats are so bloated, and not linearly, also makes it a broken system. The difference between Level 1 to Level 69 is nothing for a L130 character, the difference between L70 and L75 is the difference between being able to participate in a raid and not.

    What was initially a wonderful idea that rewards you for doing all the content in the game has turned into another pay to win money grab.
    Valid points, but they are not specific to the virtue system at all.

    We see stat bloat all over the the place since Mordor. Gear, essences, traits, LIs. Virtues are just one example. It was rather predicable that the stat bloat would cause all kinds of balance and itemization issues in unexpected places.

    Most of the grind for any of them can be bypassed by buying a valar. That does devalue the amount of time you've put into your character, if you want to look at it that way. If you see the game as a competition to build the best character, valars are p2w in it's purest form. It is fine by me. I don't get it that people search for high level group oriented fights in an ancient ancient story oriented game: there are plenty better alternatives to choose from, but more power to them. To each his own lotro.

    TLR; Valid points, but to stat bloat and valars in general, not the trait system.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by SingularityNow View Post
    You're incorrect on a lot of points. First, the size of the world makes no difference to the new player. They're stuck in level bands. So it doesn't matter to the new player if Harad exists in game, they're in The Shire and months if not years from Harad.

    Second, who do you think champions most the simplification of things like virtues systems, LI systems and things of this nature? The players that grind them the most, which are endgamers. Just like they'll champion crafting updates, trait updates and things of this nature. There are many silos of interest in this game that are mutually exclusive to each other. The endgamer touches on most. In fact, they're not the tail. They're the horse.

    Finally, an Endgamer isn't a necessarily a T4 player. You're conflating endgamer and elitist I think. Try not to let your perceived inferiority complex shade your input.
    Well actually, and this is just an opinion, but this is a yes and no.

    Two things new players (especially modern ones) generally consider when starting something new:
    1. How much content is already available and its price
    2. How new content fares with the old one. In terms of size is it the same? Is their more variety?

    The last point especially matters for marketing an old game like LOTRO.

    One other point is the lvl experience.
    3. how long does it take me to get to a certain point in the game? Weeks? Months? The general mood for players today is weeks at best.

    Along the way those players would encounter things like the virtue system etc. Now, ideally, these systems would all be maxed out with as little effort so it doesn't feel grindy; same with the LI. That's how games today get casual players to feel like trying "endgame content".

    Personally, and again just an opinion, getting to the state where you can do endgame shouldn't be that difficult, and should in fact be easy. The whole point of endgame is where you feel the difficulty spike up from the rest of content, which traditionally should be easy for you.

    So while I think there should be a balance between these two types of players, the traditional route most games tend to do today is make it that getting on the path to doing endgame content is easy so the player becomes more invested in it. Again this is just an opinion and an observation I've made from all the different MMOs and genres I've played. Since player perception today has changed alot from before.

  11. #36
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    wrath 247 - I am sure new players today are the same as new players have always been. Some want some things and some want others. I doubt if one can accurately generalize quite as broadly as you did in saying that new players want a very easy game with no challenge where they can get to maximum level in weeks.

    Surely this is true for many - surely it is not true for many.

    In particular you focus on how quickly one can get to the "endgame" and that would be a much more valid point in a game like WoW. Or many other current MMOs. But LOTRO has always attracted many players that are more interested in the story and the world and don't really care about the endgame. I know of no reason to suspect that this will suddenly change and, in fact, I would guess that people watching the TV show and deciding to give LOTRO a try as a result will care much less about the endgame that most of us do - since many of us were gamers attracted by the LoTR elements rather than LoTR fans that may never have played a MMO in their lives. The ones that did come here without a gaming background often are the ones that bum around with seeming aimlessness almost inconceivable to a more dedicated gamer - but they seem happy so that works.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by istvana View Post
    wrath 247 - I am sure new players today are the same as new players have always been. Some want some things and some want others. I doubt if one can accurately generalize quite as broadly as you did in saying that new players want a very easy game with no challenge where they can get to maximum level in weeks.

    Surely this is true for many - surely it is not true for many.

    In particular you focus on how quickly one can get to the "endgame" and that would be a much more valid point in a game like WoW. Or many other current MMOs. But LOTRO has always attracted many players that are more interested in the story and the world and don't really care about the endgame. I know of no reason to suspect that this will suddenly change and, in fact, I would guess that people watching the TV show and deciding to give LOTRO a try as a result will care much less about the endgame that most of us do - since many of us were gamers attracted by the LoTR elements rather than LoTR fans that may never have played a MMO in their lives. The ones that did come here without a gaming background often are the ones that bum around with seeming aimlessness almost inconceivable to a more dedicated gamer - but they seem happy so that works.
    There is a point to be made for making the story more accessible. There are 130 levels in this game that you have to go through if you want to see the full story and that is a daunting number. Even a game like ff14, which is actually MORE story oriented than Lotro (to the point that quite literally everything from mounts to flying to raids and dungeons are locked behind main story quests), streamlined parts of the early experience because they were noticing points where players were stopping. I'm sure Lotro also has points where there's a stopper of some kind where they see players drop off. It could be Rohan and mounted combat, it could be something else.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by istvana View Post
    wrath 247 - I am sure new players today are the same as new players have always been. Some want some things and some want others. I doubt if one can accurately generalize quite as broadly as you did in saying that new players want a very easy game with no challenge where they can get to maximum level in weeks.

    Surely this is true for many - surely it is not true for many.

    In particular you focus on how quickly one can get to the "endgame" and that would be a much more valid point in a game like WoW. Or many other current MMOs. But LOTRO has always attracted many players that are more interested in the story and the world and don't really care about the endgame. I know of no reason to suspect that this will suddenly change and, in fact, I would guess that people watching the TV show and deciding to give LOTRO a try as a result will care much less about the endgame that most of us do - since many of us were gamers attracted by the LoTR elements rather than LoTR fans that may never have played a MMO in their lives. The ones that did come here without a gaming background often are the ones that bum around with seeming aimlessness almost inconceivable to a more dedicated gamer - but they seem happy so that works.
    Wait sorry I think i gave the wrong impression with my post hahaha. Sorry, my point was there needs to be a balance.

    Since new players, whether gaming vets or complete newbies to the gaming scene, always judge based on a deluge of diff factors. There are for sure too many to count and its really a matter of preferrence tbh.

    But at the end of the day, there are likely some biases involved in that decision making. What we need is to find our balance.

    Case and point, some of the more successful games today still struggle with issues.

    Warframe kinda has an identity crisis rn. SWTOR and GW2 have had no expansions in months or years for the latter. Even Genshin Impact struggles to keep players retained with endgame content, which anyone can tell you is a right pain in the stomach [censors lol] (spiral abyss hell).

    For ours, I think we need to prioritize first (because let's be frank the team isn't that big) the places where money can be made the most. That generally, and I'm saying generally here, falls under questing, cosmetics, and accessability. The idea being that if you accomplish those three, you can lean those casual players to more endgame content.

    What SniperCT said about sums up how MMOs adapt to player preferrences. And keep in mind FFXIV has a much larger following than LOTR, and no matter how epic that knights of the round fight is, at some point it can and will get stale. Finding the balance is key.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by istvana View Post
    wrath 247 - I am sure new players today are the same as new players have always been. Some want some things and some want others. I doubt if one can accurately generalize quite as broadly as you did in saying that new players want a very easy game with no challenge where they can get to maximum level in weeks.

    Surely this is true for many - surely it is not true for many.

    In particular you focus on how quickly one can get to the "endgame" and that would be a much more valid point in a game like WoW. Or many other current MMOs. But LOTRO has always attracted many players that are more interested in the story and the world and don't really care about the endgame. I know of no reason to suspect that this will suddenly change and, in fact, I would guess that people watching the TV show and deciding to give LOTRO a try as a result will care much less about the endgame that most of us do - since many of us were gamers attracted by the LoTR elements rather than LoTR fans that may never have played a MMO in their lives. The ones that did come here without a gaming background often are the ones that bum around with seeming aimlessness almost inconceivable to a more dedicated gamer - but they seem happy so that works.
    We can discuss for quite a long time what play styles new players will choose, but the main problem is IMO that LOTRO does not cater to *most* of them. If we use the LOTR fan: Your assumption is that this fan does not have gaming background. What does that mean? LOTR is their first game ever? The first game since 10 years? They have no idea about prices on the game market? No comparison possibility to any other game? The number of those people will be very small and even those will have a look at the price tag. They might not pursue targets, but they still need content to play in.

  15. #40
    Think a lot of you are grossly over-estimating how many new players a new, shiny t.v. show is going to bring into an old, archaic gaming relic that barely attracts any new blood on it's own even when already leveraging one of the most recognized brands and beloved IP's of all time. SWtOR, leveraging an IP which rivals LotR in brand recognition and belovedness, players had the same expectations from new, shiny Star Wars movies being released. Didn't work there, ain't gonna work here. I'd worry more about keeping the players you have at this stage.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by SniperCT View Post
    There is a point to be made for making the story more accessible. There are 130 levels in this game that you have to go through if you want to see the full story and that is a daunting number. Even a game like ff14, which is actually MORE story oriented than Lotro (to the point that quite literally everything from mounts to flying to raids and dungeons are locked behind main story quests), streamlined parts of the early experience because they were noticing points where players were stopping. I'm sure Lotro also has points where there's a stopper of some kind where they see players drop off. It could be Rohan and mounted combat, it could be something else.
    Not to mention all of the level 100 quests where they experimented with doing away with leveling (at least for a while). The Dead Marshes, Central Gondor, Eastern Gondor and Old Anórien are all level 100 areas. I was already level 105 when I reached Linhir in Central Gondor. So I'll include Far Anórien, Anórien after battle and North Ithilien as areas that don't matter for levelling. It took me a loooooong time before I'd finished it all and I was 112 when I went to Mordor.

    Looking back I should've used the stone of the tortoise, but I didn't know how long it was going to be. I think it's a bit annoying that you're forced to buy this so you won't be massively over-levelled. Questing is the main reason why I play the game, but even I skipped most of it on my alt. On my alt I went straight to The Wastes at 105. It takes way too long to do it all again and I didn't particularly enjoy many of those areas.
    "The leaves were long, the grass was green, The hemlock-umbels tall and fair, And in the glade a light was seen Of stars in shadow shimmering.
    Tinuviel was dancing there To music of a pipe unseen, And light of stars was in her hair, And in her raiment glimmering. [...]" ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by istvana View Post
    But LOTRO has always attracted many players that are more interested in the story and the world and don't really care about the endgame. I know of no reason to suspect that this will suddenly change and, in fact, I would guess that people watching the TV show and deciding to give LOTRO a try as a result will care much less about the endgame that most of us do - since many of us were gamers attracted by the LoTR elements rather than LoTR fans that may never have played a MMO in their lives. The ones that did come here without a gaming background often are the ones that bum around with seeming aimlessness almost inconceivable to a more dedicated gamer - but they seem happy so that works.
    I don't see problem there. Literally 100 levels of a story/content and not a care in the world for story lovers. Some of old areas got even updated lately, looking better now. No weapon headache, crafting still functional. Only thing I can think of is getting better content bundles and revisiting price. Something time and time mentioned and suggested, and also largely from people on higher levels and endgame players.

    Problems starting with level 100 and introduction of an Imbued Legendary Items. This is where crafting also went down the drain, and where things got difficult for those that just want to enjoy the story. And again it was people who went through that hardship that were complaining, suggesting changes and supporting those that just arrived or arriving into those problems. Naturally, because I think we can agree that preferably one would always have some experience to talk about a given subject, and most of us understand importance of keeping everyone happy.

  18. #43
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    In looking at what SSG will do over the next year it doesn't really matter how many new players we will get or what their background will be. What matters is what SSG thinks.

    When the Swedes purchased Daybreak they said that they hoped for many new players, and mentioned the possibilities of making fairly dramatic changes such as updating the graphics and making the game available on mobile platforms/consoles. These things may or may not happen but I have seen no sign that they have changed their minds about the possibility of getting a large influx of new players.

    It thus seems highly likely that they will be focusing on changes that they think, rightly or wrongly, will make the game more attractive to TV show watchers that decide to give it a try. What are these likely to be?

    1. Server stability. Money spent on new hardware. Programming changes that reduce lag even at the cost of delaying new content and eliminating things from the game that most of us like. A willingness to drive some of us away in the hope that we will be replaced tenfold by new players if all works well.

    2. Simplification. LOTRO is far from one of the most complicated games but it also isn't one of the most simple. Few of us on these forums would disagree with the conclusion that taking legendary items from the time we first get them, through imbuement, to maxing them out is a long, grindy and complex process. One that is not easy even for many of us that have done it already at least once. One that is counter-intuitive in many ways. Just the story for example. Get a weapon so powerful that you can defeat a legendary horror raised by the Dark Lord to defend the entrance to Moria. Fine. Then get 2,000 more of them - the streets of Moria aren't paved with gold. They are paved with legendary items that were dropped because they were too common to sell and too useless to use. With a high level of likelihood the system will finally be revamped. Fairly soon. And for once in Daybreak's history without the primary goal being to increase store purchases. A miracle indeed.

    3. More simplification. Maybe making traits simpler and with fewer important choices. Maybe simplification of virtues. Maybe eliminating crafting guilds or making guild status far easier to get - as with the quests rather than grinding at the new upper levels. Any of these will drive some of us away but if they hope for the pot of gold the TV show promises rather than just keeping what they have - they will do this anyway. I would be very much surprised if the new Producer isn't there will marching orders almost precisely along these lines.

    4. Faster access to high levels even without using Valars. Heresy to the old Daybreak philosophy of monetizing uber alles. Perhaps a level squish but Shadowfax strongly hints that they will instead look to making leveling faster. Much faster. IMO the right decision if they need to choose between these two choices.

    Note that these are my predictions for the next year. Very definitely they are not my hopes - more of them will make the game worse for me than will make it better. but if all works perfectly, as things so rarely do, we will at least have a larger player base and far more resources available for development.
    Last edited by istvana; Jun 22 2021 at 11:13 AM.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by wrath247 View Post
    Well actually, and this is just an opinion, but this is a yes and no.

    Two things new players (especially modern ones) generally consider when starting something new:
    1. How much content is already available and its price
    2. How new content fares with the old one. In terms of size is it the same? Is their more variety?


    The last point especially matters for marketing an old game like LOTRO.
    Well we're talking a matter of degrees here but I'm talking about the players that have already made the decision. They're playing the game under level 20. They're actually in the game now. A new release at level cap isn't going to make much difference to them. They're either going to keep playing or quit based on the merits of their experience at their level, not on what is happening 110 levels from them.

  20. #45
    They live in their own bubble. I dont' know why they don't do it like the real big fishes on the market, which is providing much more of their content for way less money, than SSG does.
    They did a bit of it by giving out the free content codes when covid kicked in, and it worked. Don't know why they haven't stayed on that course.

    For example, the trial version of FFXIV goes up to level 60, while maxlevel is 80 and the latest WoW xpac includes all previous ones.
    SSG monetizes the game in such a bad way, that it prevents a larger playerbase.
    No TV series will change that (the Hobbit movies didn't either back in the day). What's the IP worth, even the wonderfull worldbuilding and stories, when it's simply to expensive to get into it?

    A way bigger chunk of free trial, better hardware/fluid gameplay, a fair and simple payment model with more cosmetics and fluff instead of "less of a pain"-shop boost because of overdone grind-requirements ... sit down please.
    Providing a rewarding low/mid-level experience with a sense of progression and making non-maxlevel raiding worthwhile, too and even a usefull PvMP option/scaling for low-levels? ... now we can talk about playernumbers again.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenhand View Post
    They live in their own bubble. I dont' know why they don't do it like the real big fishes on the market, which is providing much more of their content for way less money, than SSG does.
    They did a bit of it by giving out the free content codes when covid kicked in, and it worked. Don't know why they haven't stayed on that course.
    I feel like SSG must've screwed themselves from some legal standpoint with the LP store. It's a really, really, really terrible store system that sucks for both players and SSG.
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenhand View Post
    They live in their own bubble. I dont' know why they don't do it like the real big fishes on the market, which is providing much more of their content for way less money, than SSG does.
    They did a bit of it by giving out the free content codes when covid kicked in, and it worked. Don't know why they haven't stayed on that course.

    For example, the trial version of FFXIV goes up to level 60, while maxlevel is 80 and the latest WoW xpac includes all previous ones.
    SSG monetizes the game in such a bad way, that it prevents a larger playerbase.
    No TV series will change that (the Hobbit movies didn't either back in the day). What's the IP worth, even the wonderfull worldbuilding and stories, when it's simply to expensive to get into it?

    A way bigger chunk of free trial, better hardware/fluid gameplay, a fair and simple payment model with more cosmetics and fluff instead of "less of a pain"-shop boost because of overdone grind-requirements ... sit down please.
    Providing a rewarding low/mid-level experience with a sense of progression and making non-maxlevel raiding worthwhile, too and even a usefull PvMP option/scaling for low-levels? ... now we can talk about playernumbers again.
    To be fair, they completely failed to capitalizes on the hobbit movies, not adding the relevant areas until 4 years after the last one came out. If they'd had erebor and lake town in game at the time of the movies they could have done some clever advertising to bring people in. So I feel like they do plan on not making that same mistake. The question is what kind of content could they add relevant to the second age? Perhaps some kind of Legacy of Numenor story, maybe we can visit Umbar (I'd love to visit Umbar), etc. It might even give them a chance to expand eriador a bit. Grey havens, harlindon, etc. But I think heading south or east would probably be best. Numenor did sail all over and had colonies even in the far east coasts. And Umbar has so much potential for storytelling.

    I do agree they need to extend the freely available portion of the game. Eriador at least, and far enough into Moria to unlock the epic line (I'd say include Moria because it's so iconic). Better servers would help, not sure what they could to for gameplay, Lotro has always been a bit clunkly in that regard, but perhaps redoing all the animations and sound could make it 'feel' better. A lot of abilities don't sound like they have an impact, which translates to not feeling that great.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SniperCT View Post
    To be fair, they completely failed to capitalizes on the hobbit movies, not adding the relevant areas until 4 years after the last one came out. If they'd had erebor and lake town in game at the time of the movies they could have done some clever advertising to bring people in.
    ...they did. The Erebor instance cluster was made which featured multiple locations from the movies. Said cluster was also set to be available at level 20 meaning new players to the game could quickly jump into it.
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    ...they did. The Erebor instance cluster was made which featured multiple locations from the movies. Said cluster was also set to be available at level 20 meaning new players to the game could quickly jump into it.
    Huh. I wasn't really playing when the hobbit came out. I remember checking and seeing riders of rohan, nothing about dale or erebor lol I don't really consider an instance cluster really capitalizing on the movies though, but I must have missed that part when I was checking in.

    And if I, someone who actually periodically checks up on where the game is going even when not playing can miss this, IDK how someone who saw the movies, wants to check lotro out, sees that the game is in Rohan and you can't go visit erebor and lake town, would notice or care about instance clusters.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SniperCT View Post
    Huh. I wasn't really playing when the hobbit came out. I remember checking and seeing riders of rohan, nothing about dale or erebor lol I don't really consider an instance cluster really capitalizing on the movies though, but I must have missed that part when I was checking in.

    And if I, someone who actually periodically checks up on where the game is going even when not playing can miss this, IDK how someone who saw the movies, wants to check lotro out, sees that the game is in Rohan and you can't go visit erebor and lake town, would notice or care about instance clusters.
    Don't read too much into it, the Erebor cluster wasn't based around Erebor or Lake Town and people that had seen the movies certainly wouldn't have related to it other than a few names used in the instances.

    Battle For Erebor Raid, just a fight with two trolls and Jangovar adds in a square arena, so the only relevance to the movies is the word "Erebor" in the raid title.
    The Fires of Smaug, a single boss raid fight with a large fire grim and Jangovar adds on a hillside, no dragon involved at all. So again movie lovers only had the word "Smaug" to relate.
    Flight to the Lonely Mountain, a raid fight against waves of Jangovar, with no boss involved, all taking place in a small stream crossing. Nothing in there for movie fans except the phrase "Lonely Mountain."

    Iorbar's Peak, was a three man, to fight a way up a mountain pass, past various animal mobs, and a dwarf boss to defeat a giant and save an eagle egg from destructive dwarves with gun powder.

    Seat of the Great Goblin (3 man). This would have been something movie buffs could relate to. Fight through Goblin Town to take down the Great Goblin in the end fight.

    Webs of the Scuttledells (3 man). This would also have been something they could relate to.

    And finally The Bells of Dale 6 man. This, IMO, is the only one that would have been a lure for movie fans. Mainly because of where it takes place (The town of Dale), but the actual fights inside would have made little sense to them.

    Iobar's Peak, Scuttledells and Goblin Town were already areas in the game, long before Rohan arrived, so Dale and Erebor (name only), were the only new things attached for the Rohan release to relate to the Hobbit movies.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


 

 
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