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  1. #1
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    New legendary servers fail..

    For real, are you adding 2 new servers after the last fail? Unless you add original classic progression servers don't bother. The optional difficulty will not be enough to keep 2 servers populated in a longer period of time. Like seriously, why would ANYONE go there after your last failed attempt with these legendary servers?

    Also by making the difficulty optional won't make people group up, it's such a lame attempt to get more VIPs and more people spending p2w in your store.

    I hope people act smart and stay away from this cash grab at all costs.

  2. #2
    Which fail are you talking about? Legendary servers were a huge success, as the new ones will be. Many people will play them and be happy.

    People need to understand that legendary servers are a special thing, the first few will eventually die out. It is a natural, normal process. These type of servers have never ment to be "permanent", but they have compensated thier maintenance immensely. Legendary servers are a way of trials and errors. As I've said, the first few will die out sooner or later. It will take several servers and years to finaly build, let's call it, a legendary community: people who mainly play on this type of servers and almost never log in to regular ones.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arabani View Post
    Which fail are you talking about? Legendary servers were a huge success, as the new ones will be. Many people will play them and be happy.

    People need to understand that legendary servers are a special thing, the first few will eventually die out. It is a natural, normal process. These type of servers have never ment to be "permanent", but they have compensated thier maintenance immensely. Legendary servers are a way of trials and errors. As I've said, the first few will die out sooner or later. It will take several servers and years to finaly build, let's call it, a legendary community: people who mainly play on this type of servers and almost never log in to regular ones.
    Ithil died out during SOA, and Anor lost 50-60% of its population before Moria was released, and probably another 30% more once people found out how poorly Moria was balanced. If you think they can milk this all over again with two servers you are as delusional as SSG. The reason this project got so hyped up back then was because many connected it with OG SOA... Only the name "legendary" will scare people away this time around. During SOM you were happy if there was 200-300 ppl online during peak times..

    And why is this VIP only ? People should pay money for dying servers that will be unplayable after a few weeks. Its a joke lol.

    The majority wanted classic, they failed to deliver. And have failed to deliver again.
    Last edited by bjute; Jun 14 2021 at 05:56 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arabani View Post
    Which fail are you talking about? Legendary servers were a huge success, as the new ones will be. Many people will play them and be happy.

    People need to understand that legendary servers are a special thing, the first few will eventually die out. It is a natural, normal process. These type of servers have never ment to be "permanent", but they have compensated thier maintenance immensely. Legendary servers are a way of trials and errors. As I've said, the first few will die out sooner or later. It will take several servers and years to finaly build, let's call it, a legendary community: people who mainly play on this type of servers and almost never log in to regular ones.
    You can't build community by opening and closing servers. All that does is drive people away. Servers 'dying out' will only make people gun shy about legendary servers, as who wants to play on a server knowing the population will dwindle and die? You'll get that first week rush but then what?

    If they weren't meant to be 'permanent' they would have told us and there'd have been a close date announced before the servers opened, like how they handled the pvp server.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by bjute View Post
    For real, are you adding 2 new servers after the last fail? Unless you add original classic progression servers don't bother. The optional difficulty will not be enough to keep 2 servers populated in a longer period of time. Like seriously, why would ANYONE go there after your last failed attempt with these legendary servers? Also by making the difficulty optional won't make people group up, it's such a lame attempt to get more VIPs and more people spending p2w in your store. I hope people act smart and stay away from this cash grab at all costs.
    What are you talking about? Legendary servers were a huge success for SSG. You had to wait hours of hours to login in the first week so they had to open another server. If you dont like it, dont play it...

    This is no cash crab. VIP players can play for free and more VIP players are good for the game. Again: If you dont like it, dont play it... you should stay away from hating in the forums and open such threads. Vote for close.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurinuor View Post
    What are you talking about? Legendary servers were a huge success for SSG. You had to wait hours of hours to login in the first week so they had to open another server. If you dont like it, dont play it...

    This is no cash crab. VIP players can play for free and more VIP players are good for the game. Again: If you dont like it, dont play it... you should stay away from hating in the forums and open such threads. Vote for close.
    Exactly - for VIPs it makes no difference if the new servers are VIP only or not, they can play anyway. And if I correctly remember the data that was published during the EG7 purchase there are more active subscriptions than could play on the currently active servers. If they are trying to do things that turn the active subscriptions/inactive players into active subscriptions/active players, then that is good for everyone.
    There's some good in this world, and it is worth fighting for.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gildoriel View Post
    Exactly - for VIPs it makes no difference if the new servers are VIP only or not, they can play anyway. And if I correctly remember the data that was published during the EG7 purchase there are more active subscriptions than could play on the currently active servers. If they are trying to do things that turn the active subscriptions/inactive players into active subscriptions/active players, then that is good for everyone.
    Im also happy if game will get more money. I just feel sad when I see all these forced microtransactions. I just hope that if they get more money that they will get easy with store stuff. Like it used to be before. There was always store but it was more quality of life thing than "must". Like you had solvents in store but if you put just little bit more effort in game you could get solvents through playing the game (on lvl 100 drop rate was higher). I think everyone remember lootbox keys... I dont want to even mention more about legendary weapons.

    All those makes me very demotivated, I have only one character that is lvl 120, all others are on lower lvl game just because of gearing and store stuff.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurinuor View Post
    What are you talking about? Legendary servers were a huge success for SSG.
    Initially it was a huge success because people were excited about a server that would more closely represent the OG experience. And man, did they fail horribly.. 50% loss in server pop once people hit 50, is that what you call a success? Ithil died before Moria came out, and Anor suffered population issues during Moria. It was hard to find a DN raid most of the times.

    Forced VIP+Cash shop for servers that will die within weeks is IMO a cash grab. They milk the initial playerbase, and leave the servers dead for the rest of the time. They made 0 effort to fix the issues last time around, and the fixes they deployed was there after the hype died out. It has already happened ONCE, what makes you think it wont happen again? The optional landscape difficulty? We will see. I will report the numbers on release and a few weeks after and we will see who is laughing then =)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjute View Post
    Initially it was a huge success because people were excited about a server that would more closely represent the OG experience. And man, did they fail horribly.. 50% loss in server pop once people hit 50, is that what you call a success? Ithil died before Moria came out, and Anor suffered population issues during Moria. It was hard to find a DN raid most of the times.

    Forced VIP+Cash shop for servers that will die within weeks is IMO a cash grab. They milk the initial playerbase, and leave the servers dead for the rest of the time. They made 0 effort to fix the issues last time around, and the fixes they deployed was there after the hype died out. It has already happened ONCE, what makes you think it wont happen again? The optional landscape difficulty? We will see. I will report the numbers on release and a few weeks after and we will see who is laughing then =)
    I agree with ya there 100%.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurinuor View Post
    You had to wait hours of hours to login in the first week so they had to open another server.
    Except Ithil is now closing because there were like 30 people online at primetime. Opening that extra server turned out to be a mistake because the population dropped off quickly.

    The only good thing I'll say about the new servers is Treebeard is how it should have been done the first time(it was how I expected it tbh, a bit slower on the level cap increases and more time at each cap). But I'm not going to play on that server because I got burned on Ithil and Anor(though for me personally it was how they handled closing ithil lol). But I'm probably not the only one who's over the concept.

    There appears to only be a certain % of players who want to be on these servers and splitting that playerbase is probably not a wise idea. I feel like SSG pushing these gimmicky servers instead of doing things to improve playing on the regular servers isn't a long term solution. Making it easier (and cheaper) for new players to get into the game is probably where they should start. (I mean look at FF14, unlimited time free trial up to level 60, through the base game and first expansion. It's not unreasonable to suggest a brand new free player get Eriador and, say, enough of Moria to unlock the legendary weapon before needing to purchase something. There's so much more of the game after that.)

    As for servers, maybe a straight up fresh start server might work, but I don't know if the populations of the current servers are high enough to sustain a fresh start server long term into a healthy server.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SniperCT View Post
    The only good thing I'll say about the new servers is Treebeard is how it should have been done the first time(it was how I expected it tbh, a bit slower on the level cap increases and more time at each cap). But I'm not going to play on that server because I got burned on Ithil and Anor(though for me personally it was how they handled closing ithil lol). But I'm probably not the only one who's over the concept.
    I'm not over the concept of progression servers though, but it has the be the real thing with patches and all. But no more of these level capped servers without PVMP. The reason LS failed was due to how much the game have changed, it's completely imbalanced experience. And the 9 new difficulty settings for landscape won't change that. Slower cap releases won't change the fact that players get BIS gear within a week, and there is no sense of endgame progression as it was back then.

    If they really want these progression servers to be successful they either need to relase original servers as they were back then, or make some serious changes to these servers.

    How that could be done:
    1. Disable the store.
    2. One difficulty level that more closely resembles the original SOA difficulty.
    3. Temporarily removing the inspire buffs for book quests.
    4. Disable skirmish camps completely.
    5. Bring back old loot into the lootables, and rebalance them to make sure quest gear isn't more powerful than raid gear.
    6. No wardens/rks/beornings until Moria
    7. Bring back elite quests and elite areas as they were back in SOA
    8. Remove tiers implemented within The Rift, should be 1 difficulty tier.
    9. Seriously buffing all SOA instances.
    10. Mirror original patches to make it a longer progress, no Evendim/Foro/Eregion, No rift ETC.. They should open up over time to keep players hooked for a longer period of time.
    11. Just to mention, original areas/raids and dungeons HAS to be released as they originally did.. Otherwise 1 raid/dungeon renders all other obsolete. For example Eregion has more powerful stuff than Rift. Makes 0 sense.

    If this could be achived, then I might be interested. Otherwise, this will just be the same fail as the other servers.
    Last edited by bjute; Jun 14 2021 at 06:47 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjute View Post
    I'm not over the concept of progression servers though, but it has the be the real thing with patches and all. But no more of these level capped servers without PVMP. The reason LS failed was due to how much the game have changed, it's completely imbalanced experience. And the 9 new difficulty settings for landscape won't change that. Slower cap releases won't change the fact that players get BIS gear within a week, and there is no sense of endgame progression as it was back then.

    If they really want these progression servers to be successful they either need to relase original servers as they were back then, or make some serious changes to these servers.

    How that could be done:
    1. Disable the store.
    2. One difficulty level that more closely resembles the original SOA difficulty.
    3. Temporarily removing the inspire buffs for book quests.
    4. Disable skirmish camps completely.
    5. Bring back old loot into the lootables, and rebalance them to make sure quest gear isn't more powerful than raid gear.
    6. No wardens/rks/beornings until Moria
    7. Bring back elite quests and elite areas as they were back in SOA
    8. Remove tiers implemented within The Rift, should be 1 difficulty tier.
    9. Seriously buffing all SOA instances.
    10. Mirror original patches to make it a longer progress, no Evendim/Foro/Eregion, No rift ETC.. They should open up over time to keep players hooked for a longer period of time.
    11. Just to mention, original areas/raids and dungeons HAS to be released as they originally did.. Otherwise 1 raid/dungeon renders all other obsolete. For example Eregion has more powerful stuff than Rift. Makes 0 sense.

    If this could be achived, then I might be interested. Otherwise, this will just be the same fail as the other servers.

    1) Don't see them ever doing this, plus I'm not actually sure they can without disabling it for whole game
    2) They'd have to figure out a way to toggle it for a whole server without affecting other servers, but probably not insurmountable. I wouldn't play it. SOA wasn't 'hard', it was tedious and boring to level in lmao
    3) See #2, as in I'm not sure they can toggle it off on a single server without affecting the whole game. Also this was a good QOL change imo
    4) see #2 and #3. Plus they'd have to bring them back when skirmishes get 'added'
    5) Again, this is something that would affect the whole game. I don't see them doing the latter simply because raids are obsolete when you level up, but you need players able to survive content
    6) see #2 again
    7) see #2 again. We know they can bring back quests they removed, but rebalancing areas and existing quests is something that might affect the game writ large
    8) see #2 again
    9) see #2 again
    10) Bit harder to do for patches than for expansions, but possible maybe. I disagree simply because more options to level is never bad.
    11) see #2...


    basically you're asking for a complete redo of the game in a way that would affect all the live servers.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SniperCT View Post
    1) Don't see them ever doing this, plus I'm not actually sure they can without disabling it for whole game
    2) They'd have to figure out a way to toggle it for a whole server without affecting other servers, but probably not insurmountable. I wouldn't play it. SOA wasn't 'hard', it was tedious and boring to level in lmao
    3) See #2, as in I'm not sure they can toggle it off on a single server without affecting the whole game. Also this was a good QOL change imo
    4) see #2 and #3. Plus they'd have to bring them back when skirmishes get 'added'
    5) Again, this is something that would affect the whole game. I don't see them doing the latter simply because raids are obsolete when you level up, but you need players able to survive content
    6) see #2 again
    7) see #2 again. We know they can bring back quests they removed, but rebalancing areas and existing quests is something that might affect the game writ large
    8) see #2 again
    9) see #2 again
    10) Bit harder to do for patches than for expansions, but possible maybe. I disagree simply because more options to level is never bad.
    11) see #2...


    basically you're asking for a complete redo of the game in a way that would affect all the live servers.
    Yes that is "basically" what I am asking for except that it won't affect all servers, you don't know how these things work lol. Why open new servers if its the same as current running servers? Did you miss the fact that the old servers failed because they where the same as live?

    Most of what I mention here are server-side changes.. For example, you can have 1 elite mob on a specific server without any changes to the client/other servers. The server tells the client what to spawn, its all server side. And yes these will be 2 different SERVERS. The loot tables works the same way, it tells the client what is dropping from mobs/chests etc. Same with the difficulty setting, its already implemented in the game, they could simply make it so that once you logon to the world, everyone have the same difficulty buff. Or how do you think the new difficulty system will work on LS? Every player can chose their own difficulty without affecting the normal servers*facepalm* So ofc SSG could have made it so there is one harder difficulty on the server, instead of this 9 tiers joke.

    All of these are server side changes that doesn't affect other servers or require a remake of the game lol! And gating regions/quests/content was done on the old LS.. why are you saying this can't be done to a more accurate degree?

    I agree SOA wasn't hard, it was perfectly balanced for solo/group players. Unlike these days where players solo rift, and group quests etc etc.. They can never achieve this balance without a true SOA server, but they can try at least to make it a bit more group oriented.
    Last edited by bjute; Jun 14 2021 at 08:29 AM.

  14. #14
    I think it's pretty clear that these are "Legendary Servers 2.0"

    Ithil wasn't originally planned but launched because Anor was that far beyond capacity at first.

    Then various mistakes were made in supporting Anor (content added too fast, content added too slow) so demand dipped a lot over the year or so that it's been.

    Now they're launching 2 new Legendary Servers with a focus on correcting the exact problem that hurt Anor the most!

    And the difficulty selection is a new mechanic to try.

    Treebeard and Shadowfax are knowingly making Anor obsolete. I reckon they'll only leave Anor open long term if enough folks REALLY want to cling to it.

    TL;DR: they're learning from their mistakes and improving the game!
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  15. #15
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    The thing is, they (SSG) see Anor as a huge success, which is why they have also stated they have no intention of closing it.

    The most I've seen on it, and that was during Prime play time was 198 non anon players.

    I wouldn't call that a huge success. It may have been when it launched, and for a while after that even, but not now. Ithil's lights are going out, and I don't see Anor lasting that much longer, especially with two new servers arriving.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Ithil's lights are going out, and I don't see Anor lasting that much longer, especially with two new servers arriving.
    It won't last much longer for sure, everyone will be on the new servers. But that is exactly the point of launching these servers-to get people a new start and test Legendary servers more. I'm also almost certain that after some time, most likely 2-3 years, Legendary 2.0 wll be replaced by Legendary 3.0. And 3.0 most likely will be the real success and fun to play.

  17. #17
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    Duplicate Thread: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-and-Treebeard

    Can we start to actually pay attention to this?

    Makes it harder for SSG to read feedback and also divides comments by players that aren't constantly on here.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SniperCT View Post
    1) Don't see them ever doing this, plus I'm not actually sure they can without disabling it for whole game
    2) They'd have to figure out a way to toggle it for a whole server without affecting other servers, but probably not insurmountable. I wouldn't play it. SOA wasn't 'hard', it was tedious and boring to level in lmao
    3) See #2, as in I'm not sure they can toggle it off on a single server without affecting the whole game. Also this was a good QOL change imo
    4) see #2 and #3. Plus they'd have to bring them back when skirmishes get 'added'
    5) Again, this is something that would affect the whole game. I don't see them doing the latter simply because raids are obsolete when you level up, but you need players able to survive content
    6) see #2 again
    7) see #2 again. We know they can bring back quests they removed, but rebalancing areas and existing quests is something that might affect the game writ large
    8) see #2 again
    9) see #2 again
    10) Bit harder to do for patches than for expansions, but possible maybe. I disagree simply because more options to level is never bad.
    11) see #2...


    basically you're asking for a complete redo of the game in a way that would affect all the live servers.
    TL;DR Most of the these ideas would require a separate game client.

    AND... This describes a CLASSIC server, not a PROGRESSION server which is what the whole Legendary debacle was marketed as.

    The Itemization stuff however is an actual issue- And for SCALING content they would be able to bring back the gear with it scaling based on item-levels. Most of them scale to be lower values than Mordor+ content (Have seen them scaled up using plugins). The notion that players are bored of istances/raids is a complete fallacy when you see how players will farm Sambrog, Thorog, Dome of Stars and Minas Tirith in order to build their characters. The real issue is the intentional stripping of old content to make new dungeons/raids more appealing- The very fact that all scaled content has received ZERO item updates since Mordor onwards shows that Severlin only wants players to interact with the most recent update- as that means the need to having *Purchase* said content.

    Meanwhile on the Progression server when you're forced to go back through level caps as a shell of their former selves it's like wandering through a graveyard.

  19. #19
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    I will enjoy this trainwreck watching it from a far distance.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallandil View Post
    TL;DR Most of the these ideas would require a separate game client.
    What changes would require a separate client? Please tell me and I will correct you.

    A difficulty slider on landscape won't save this project that has already failed once.. They would either have to put in a lot of effort to make this server different or it will fail like the current LS.

  21. #21
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    bjute - do you really think that repeating over and over and over that the legendary servers failed will make it true. Constant repetition without even a hint of any support for the statement just makes it clear beyond doubt that (1) you are biased and (2) you *have* no support for your inaccurate claim.

    I note that many games have temporary servers for special events or to let people play differing rulesets for a while. If people flooded in to Anor and Ithil and were happy for a year or two playing old content with a somewhat different ruleset - that is a great success for SSG even if many of them aren't staying and never planned to stay until the servers caught up to the old servers.

    I for one have every intention of playing on one or both new servers. I may stay there indefinitely or I may leave when content gets to a point where I don't like it. Either way it won't be a failure for either me or SSG. I will be happy starting over on a new server and SSG will be happy as I subscribe and use the store occasionally.

    Success doesn't mean getting characters to 130 or 140 and completing all current content - so if someone leaves it is a failure. Success is being happy while you play.

    Ithil and Anor were successes.

  22. #22
    Naysayer says, "Nay".

    Ok then.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjute View Post
    For real, are you adding 2 new servers after the last fail? Unless you add original classic progression servers don't bother. The optional difficulty will not be enough to keep 2 servers populated in a longer period of time. Like seriously, why would ANYONE go there after your last failed attempt with these legendary servers?

    Also by making the difficulty optional won't make people group up, it's such a lame attempt to get more VIPs and more people spending p2w in your store.

    I hope people act smart and stay away from this cash grab at all costs.

    The failure of Ithil and Anor was due to a few simple things:

    1) They never needed two servers, they created a second because they couldn't handle the load on day 1. They should invest in better infrastructure before releasing the next one.

    2) They did 0 work to make them a better experience for players. They literally level gated these servers and that was it. No balance work, no fixing old content, no revamping old systems, it was destined to fail by the time they got to Rohan just like the actual game nearly failed under Turbine during that time period.

    3) No PvP, they could have attracted and retained a lot more people with a PvP option.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by istvana View Post
    bjute - do you really think that repeating over and over and over that the legendary servers failed will make it true. Constant repetition without even a hint of any support for the statement just makes it clear beyond doubt that (1) you are biased and (2) you *have* no support for your inaccurate claim.

    I note that many games have temporary servers for special events or to let people play differing rulesets for a while. If people flooded in to Anor and Ithil and were happy for a year or two playing old content with a somewhat different ruleset - that is a great success for SSG even if many of them aren't staying and never planned to stay until the servers caught up to the old servers.

    I for one have every intention of playing on one or both new servers. I may stay there indefinitely or I may leave when content gets to a point where I don't like it. Either way it won't be a failure for either me or SSG. I will be happy starting over on a new server and SSG will be happy as I subscribe and use the store occasionally.

    Success doesn't mean getting characters to 130 or 140 and completing all current content - so if someone leaves it is a failure. Success is being happy while you play.

    Ithil and Anor were successes.
    Special Event servers I can get onboard with. They have an expiry date, so you know what you're headed for when you go in. They are limited time, with a clear goal and finish line set in place from the off, which players can take or leave.

    Anor and Ithil are different, they started off as something, but turned into something else, with no way off, and SSG firmly holding the keys. That's the thing about "progression" servers, the progression is all in SSG's hands, and so is the time it takes, along with changes, good or bad, and that makes people feel as if their investment, in both time and money, as these are paid servers is a waste.
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  25. #25
    Those who believe in maintaining current levels of difficulty don't really belong on a "progression" server. The whole point is for everything-- landscape and instances-- to take much longer. Its not just about progressing through expansions from one to the next, but progressing from level 1-50 slowly, like it used to be.

 

 
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