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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Missions Are Fun, Repeating Them 1000x Isn't

    I admit I may be writing this prematurely, but after having done the 10 missions in Akraz-zahar with rep accelerators on the whole time my reputation with Kharum-Ubnar is still 'outsider'. This is concerning, because there seem to only be 10 missions available to do. Does this mean we are expected to re-run these same missions over and over and over and over and over again to max out our reputation?

    I know SSG is looking for repeatable content to keep players busy, but I don't think repeating the same missions is the right way to go about it. In my opinion, I'd rather see more time invested in group dungeons and PvP, where the repeatable content is much more enjoyable to repeat.

    The main benefit of missions is that they are easy to do in a short amount of time. I love that, but honestly after you've completed a mission once, doing it over isn't really enjoyable, especially considering how much lag we have to go through just to get it done.

    Why not move the mission concept to something like PvP? Throw people into a PvP game together where they can enter at any point in time and do a quick 3 v 3 or 6 v 6. I bet you if SSG implemented a capture the flag type game where the free people's could compete in groups it would be a massive hit and people would be doing it all day.
    Erendil 50 Hunter Rank 7, Mavellen 45 Warden; Officers of Disciples
    Ragaroth Warleader Rank 7, Marhawk Stalker Rank 5; Members of Cuddle Squad
    Other Characters: Arthilius - Captain, Arthilias - Guardian,
    Claireth - Runekeeper, Harbuckle - Burglar, Lothlirien - Hunter

  2. #2
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    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    Why not move the mission concept to something like PvP? Throw people into a PvP game together where they can enter at any point in time and do a quick 3 v 3 or 6 v 6. I bet you if SSG implemented a capture the flag type game where the free people's could compete in groups it would be a massive hit and people would be doing it all day.
    I think that'll upset the pvmp folks, plus I come to Lotro to escape the incessant need to balance classes against each other in PvP. Because it won't be as simple as 'throwing' people into a PvP battleground. They'd have to balance the classes to at least make it somewhat even and fair if it's a permanent mode.

    Which means messing with the classes in PvE, which was one of the original reasons PvMP exists (they can balance the creeps without affecting Freep PvE stats and abilities, though I don't know if it actually worked out that way lol)

  3. #3
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    May 2007
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    3,083
    Quote Originally Posted by SniperCT View Post
    Which means messing with the classes in PvE, which was one of the original reasons PvMP exists (they can balance the creeps without affecting Freep PvE stats and abilities, though I don't know if it actually worked out that way lol)
    Yea, I remember that was their original plan. I'd argue it didn't work lol. Even the temporary Bombadil server resulted in changes to yellow guard and bears because they were OP in freep vs freep PvP at level 10 lol.

    I think freep vs freep might actually cause less balance issues because if you have an OP class on one side, you could always also play that class on the other side *shrug*.

    I think the PvE raid crowd is vocal enough though that when certain classes are OP they tend to get nerfed, most have seen if happen to their class over the years (RIP blue hunter).
    Erendil 50 Hunter Rank 7, Mavellen 45 Warden; Officers of Disciples
    Ragaroth Warleader Rank 7, Marhawk Stalker Rank 5; Members of Cuddle Squad
    Other Characters: Arthilius - Captain, Arthilias - Guardian,
    Claireth - Runekeeper, Harbuckle - Burglar, Lothlirien - Hunter

  4. #4
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    Jan 2007
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    1,136
    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    Yea, I remember that was their original plan. I'd argue it didn't work lol. Even the temporary Bombadil server resulted in changes to yellow guard and bears because they were OP in freep vs freep PvP at level 10 lol.

    I think freep vs freep might actually cause less balance issues because if you have an OP class on one side, you could always also play that class on the other side *shrug*.

    I think the PvE raid crowd is vocal enough though that when certain classes are OP they tend to get nerfed, most have seen if happen to their class over the years (RIP blue hunter).
    Being nerfed in PvE for PvE reasons is way different from 'this class is OP in PvP so we nerfed it and now it suffers in PvE as a side effect' *stares into the middle distance with WoW flashbacks*

    Setting aside the Lore(I'm huge into Tolkien lore, but one could easily use a 'wargames' excuse for battleground pvp without breaking lore.), I also don't think pvp is popular enough of a concept to be sustainable in Lotro.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    I admit I may be writing this prematurely, but after having done the 10 missions in Akraz-zahar with rep accelerators on the whole time my reputation with Kharum-Ubnar is still 'outsider'. This is concerning, because there seem to only be 10 missions available to do. Does this mean we are expected to re-run these same missions over and over and over and over and over again to max out our reputation?

    I know SSG is looking for repeatable content to keep players busy, but I don't think repeating the same missions is the right way to go about it. In my opinion, I'd rather see more time invested in group dungeons and PvP, where the repeatable content is much more enjoyable to repeat.

    The main benefit of missions is that they are easy to do in a short amount of time. I love that, but honestly after you've completed a mission once, doing it over isn't really enjoyable, especially considering how much lag we have to go through just to get it done.

    Why not move the mission concept to something like PvP? Throw people into a PvP game together where they can enter at any point in time and do a quick 3 v 3 or 6 v 6. I bet you if SSG implemented a capture the flag type game where the free people's could compete in groups it would be a massive hit and people would be doing it all day.
    No. Just no. I like to do missions, but I never ever will do pvp. Point.
    There's some good in this world, and it is worth fighting for.

  6. #6
    Hi, welcome to time-gating. They want you to keep coming back to receive your reward from the dopamine dispenser.

    As far as alterations which could be made to make the more enjoyable, they ought to add difficulty tiers, on top of adding more fun and diverse loot to them.

  7. #7
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    May 2007
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    3,083
    Quote Originally Posted by Gildoriel View Post
    No. Just no. I like to do missions, but I never ever will do pvp. Point.
    Well then you can stay perfectly happy doing missions over and over again. This game will never force PvP on anyone, and from what I've read over the years every single suggestion to enhance or add more PvP has always been within the context of optional PvP.
    Erendil 50 Hunter Rank 7, Mavellen 45 Warden; Officers of Disciples
    Ragaroth Warleader Rank 7, Marhawk Stalker Rank 5; Members of Cuddle Squad
    Other Characters: Arthilius - Captain, Arthilias - Guardian,
    Claireth - Runekeeper, Harbuckle - Burglar, Lothlirien - Hunter

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
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    1,582
    Missions are the new drug at SSG. Some great tech to harvest and reuse old spaces. Maybe works fine in a closed environment but gets flaky with rising populations.

    I get that drama has to be used to move the story on but while a dialog of text you've already read a few times can be a click to advance we have nothing to hurry the drama along. It's ok for an epic questline or variant as it's not going to be immediately repeated on multiple character for multiple days following. Our default is to reset and try again on epics' bugs but with missions we have the standard 10 to get through and our 10/hour limit so any resetting is just messing up our plans. With Bilbo's wanderings having four to five missions that have the potential to bug out at peak times; this "epic" standard content just does not fit as repeatable content. Flaky once in a while is acceptable, gets old very quick multiple times a week.

    My champ dashed into a mission last night and was just completing "leave instance" as mobs began to appear into the space. The advantage of several non-targeting heavy hitting skills. On my other classes those options are limited, but my guard will pull the whole space for laughs and try to deal with the summon help ones. The main issue is those who are more adept never see the worst of the special abilities because everything dies too quickly or interrupts are second nature. It was only a crash mid fight that had me find a string of fire reflect buffs active on my return and making any attack mathematically impossible to win; reset and loose an instance...

    Thought I'd catch up on some WotTP content last night after some weeks of avoiding. Every time a left an internal location I forgot to wait around for a couple of minutes in the hope everything had loaded fully, but this new tech they are using doesn't give you the standard indicators as the critical additions come after all the baggage loading.

    How did having to check non-anon pops as I login to play become a thing SSG?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    14,198
    Missions were originally supposed to be a quick and easy, alternative way to level, with twists added to teach players how to overcome certain debuffs/skills and whatnot. The idea was good and the variety of missions on rotation (Elderslade) kept the samey samey a bit at bay.

    Then came Trestlebridge - with the same 10 daily, but they were fun to do and only took a little longer, with some nice rewards and not too much grind. Bilbo's adventures, and now Erebor have gone up in how long they take to complete and also and grinds have increased and reward decreased.

    The path, as always - is Mirkwood.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  10. #10
    I looked at the rewards for the new missions, a quick calculation how long a time sink this might be based on the others and have yet to bother. The Bilbo variant was worthwhile as a story, the WIldwood ones are too long for something expecting 10 repeats daily barring the "go kill the giant" one. Not enough thought put in on what the different experience of differing toons might be, if you are not a dps mokey it gets tedious fast and has been thus since pre Mordor.
    Mithithil Ithryndi

  11. #11
    I like missions a lot: they are fast, somewhat immersive, give good rewards. Some of them are better, some worse, but noone forces one to do all of them every day on every character. They are a nice addition to the game, which diversify the gameplay. Moreover they are accesable practially from the beginning (level 20).

    PvP on the other hand is a waste of time, resources, nothing good comes from PvP. I haven't seen a single PvE game that has not been ruined by PvP to a certain extend. In the best case scenario classes are balanced for PvE with PvP in mind, in the worst....well, you can see the state of Age of Connan, for examle.

    I understand that some players like PvP, but I'm really grateful that developers keep this kind of activity to Ettenmoors and I do not want to see any PvP outside the current format. Speaking frankly, I'd love to play on a non-legendary server without Ettenmoors at all.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SniperCT View Post
    Which means messing with the classes in PvE, which was one of the original reasons PvMP exists (they can balance the creeps without affecting Freep PvE stats and abilities, though I don't know if it actually worked out that way lol)
    To the best of my memory, over the last 11 years, every time PvMP classes were rebalanced the changes screwed up the PvE balance.
    Ujest - 130 Lore-master, Opun Tia - 105 Warden, Veneur - 75 Hunter, Cneasai - 61 Minstrel, plus alts and mules
    Officer, Pipeweed and Ale, Arkenstone (formerly Friends of Frodo, Vilya)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    14,198
    Quote Originally Posted by Arabani View Post
    I like missions a lot: they are fast, somewhat immersive, give good rewards. Some of them are better, some worse, but noone forces one to do all of them every day on every character. They are a nice addition to the game, which diversify the gameplay. Moreover they are accesable practially from the beginning (level 20).

    PvP on the other hand is a waste of time, resources, nothing good comes from PvP. I haven't seen a single PvE game that has not been ruined by PvP to a certain extend. In the best case scenario classes are balanced for PvE with PvP in mind, in the worst....well, you can see the state of Age of Connan, for examle.

    I understand that some players like PvP, but I'm really grateful that developers keep this kind of activity to Ettenmoors and I do not want to see any PvP outside the current format. Speaking frankly, I'd love to play on a non-legendary server without Ettenmoors at all.
    The people that enjoy PvP would disagree strongly that they are a waste of resources and time and nothing good comes of it. Some folk sub, purely to play PvP.

    I, by the way, can't stand PvP and haven't been in the Moors for about five years.

    Every legendary server that they have created is a mirror of live - with some kind of twist difference. If they were to make a non legendary server without PvP, it would still be a mirror of the live worlds, meaning any changes they make because of PvP on live, would also make it to that server.

    What they need to do is totally disconnect PvP from everything PvE. Change the coding, then keep PvP strictly in the PvP zones, without any of it affecting the rest. But that's a large investment of both time and money.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    Well then you can stay perfectly happy doing missions over and over again. This game will never force PvP on anyone, and from what I've read over the years every single suggestion to enhance or add more PvP has always been within the context of optional PvP.
    Oh, sorry, then I must have misunderstood you - I thought you wanted to convert the missions to PvP experiences which would be something I'd very much dislike. At one point in my 10 years of Lotro I tried the Ettenmoors with my then-kinship, but I realized that everything was going too fast for me and decided then that PvP just isn't for me.

    So, if SSG should develop something like PvP missions (I give this name to what you proposed) and keep the other missions as well, I'd be all for it if PvPers would like it. I think there are so many possibilities to play this game and every system is liked by some players, they should show the best side of all those systems.

    EDIT: Deleted a sentence which was actually an answer to another post by another person.
    Last edited by Gildoriel; Jun 13 2021 at 03:11 PM.
    There's some good in this world, and it is worth fighting for.

  15. #15
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    Apr 2007
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    216
    Quote Originally Posted by BadJuju View Post
    Hi, welcome to time-gating. They want you to keep coming back to receive your reward from the dopamine dispenser.

    As far as alterations which could be made to make the more enjoyable, they ought to add difficulty tiers, on top of adding more fun and diverse loot to them.
    Missions just aren't good content in any way in my eyes. It's funny that people complained (eventually, some of them) about epic battles, when in hindsight an epic battle like Defense of Minas Tirith was 100 times more lore friendly, it was exciting, it had real loot and still has better loot than missions years later. It had voice actors! Your decisions mattered, you could customize your build in the battles even.

    Missions remind me of professors I had who forgot to write us homework and came up with it the night before. Except less fun. And at the bottom of the homework it says: Do this 45 times before you get a grade.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
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    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Arabani View Post
    I like missions a lot: they are fast, somewhat immersive, give good rewards. Some of them are better, some worse, but noone forces one to do all of them every day on every character. They are a nice addition to the game, which diversify the gameplay. Moreover they are accesable practially from the beginning (level 20)
    Agree with that. as a returning player Wildwood was my first experience with 'missions' interesting concept an great nostalgic breeland bonus.

    The Elderslate ones i must admid, i'll do the fastest to fill up the counter or to farm task items along the way.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by KongoOtto View Post
    Agree with that. as a returning player Wildwood was my first experience with 'missions' interesting concept an great nostalgic breeland bonus.

    The Elderslate ones i must admid, i'll do the fastest to fill up the counter or to farm task items along the way.
    Elderslade deeds (? missions!) are also good for slayer deeds for that region.
    Last edited by Gildoriel; Jun 15 2021 at 03:03 AM.
    There's some good in this world, and it is worth fighting for.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithithil View Post
    I looked at the rewards for the new missions, a quick calculation how long a time sink this might be based on the others and have yet to bother.

    Exactly. The nice thing about the Bilbo Missions were that you could earn decor right away, as soon as you earned enough tokens. These new missions are just a tedious grind. No thanks."



    ( Edit Note: For some reason I spelt "Bilbo" as "Biblo"....must be Monday. lol )
    Last edited by Seregthol; Jun 14 2021 at 12:48 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Seregthol View Post
    Exactly. The nice thing about the Bilbo Missions were that you could earn decor right away, as soon as you earned enough tokens. These new missions are just a tedious grind. No thanks."



    ( Edit Note: For some reason I spelt "Bilbo" as "Biblo"....must be Monday. lol )
    I still do Bilbo on different characters and you are right, I can spend my tokens right away. Wildwood missions don't require a reputation either if I recall right. These new missions repeat the same mistakes the first missions made, capped currency while requiring a certain reputation. Missions as a way to circumvent some areas are not an option for me. They might be fast but are boring and I burned myself out on them gettting the Gabbilaka reputation. Now there were 80, this faction only has 10. So lots more repetition here.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    3,367
    Autobestowed quest do xxx amount of missions = ignore.
    The Elruthrim Brethren of Crickhollow
    Malancil CHN, Historian Calchiar CPT, Explorer Sturmdrang WDN, Woodsman Anancite GRD, Armourer Tarostel HNT, Armsman Angredeth HNT, Tinker Dromarong GRD, Dwarf

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Marancil View Post
    Autobestowed quest do xxx amount of missions = ignore.
    Exactly. It's kind of funny that they add them in 10s. Go and finish the 15/45 a week someplace else. Won't do that because as stated before they are just no fun for me. Maybe if the deeds wouldn't be so high I would at least try.

  22. #22
    I'm perfectly happy to do missions for the reliable shard resource but I do very much wish the weekly would be lowered to 10 and the continuing to 30. I think this would ease the burnout a lot, at least for me.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    3,367
    So why can't Landscape be "hard enough" and give the gear and buffs one need?
    The Elruthrim Brethren of Crickhollow
    Malancil CHN, Historian Calchiar CPT, Explorer Sturmdrang WDN, Woodsman Anancite GRD, Armourer Tarostel HNT, Armsman Angredeth HNT, Tinker Dromarong GRD, Dwarf

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,317
    I want to add that a big problem with the whole idea of short, instanced Missions is the instance lock. You already sometimes ran into with Limlok dailes (5), it became a thing to watch for with Elderslade missions (8), but the last three sets of Missions made it impossible to ignore.

    Trestlebridge, Rivendell and Erebor missions all come in a set of 10 and it takes beween 20-40 minutes to do all 10 in a fast order. That means you are guaranteed to hit the instance lock and after that you cannot do either group missions/raids or any landscape that also involved instances for another half an hour or so. Or, alternative, if you have done any before, you hit that lock right in the middle of your Mission spree and cannot finish it for another 25 minutes.

    That is infuritating, and the idea of short instances that only take 1-5 minutes to complete is to blame. Please avoid going doiwn that route by either:

    * Make sets of Missions shorter - it should be no more than 8 a day, preferrably about 5.
    * Increase Instance Lock to allow at least 15 instances in one hour.
    * Or, better yet, make Missions take place in public dungeons (see: Limlok dailies) where entering and exiting it does not trigger the instance lock.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by PewPew9700 View Post
    I'm perfectly happy to do missions for the reliable shard resource but I do very much wish the weekly would be lowered to 10 and the continuing to 30. I think this would ease the burnout a lot, at least for me.
    I burned out before I even finished the reputation for the Gabilakka, then I discovered I was 75 missions short of finishing the 10x20 deeds. Not going to be finished. SSG clearly went over board with deed requirements here and that soured all of them for all my characters. The initial 80, maybe 100 should have been enough to finish all deeds and the reputation. What makes it worse is the fact that so many of the marks are just wasted or lost unless you like dwarven furniture. Missions are for all characters as of level 20 and I was going to do them on all my characters every once in a while but not going to happen because of this. Further Adventures are kind of an exception but I only do the set once per character. So yes, I would like to see the weekly wrapper being 10.

    And I probably am repeating myself.

 

 
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