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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2010

    Dwarven Houses at Azanulbizar - which ones are the Dourhands?

    During the 'Blood of Azog' update we were finally introduced to the remaining of the Seven Dwarven Houses in LOTRO: the Landorrim, Narfanghoth, Temámir and Abnúzhu. Present-day dialogue with Thorin III indicates that each of those is still existing and indepent, including the Kámbrada, revealing that not all of the latter have become the Firehorns and later the Stout-Axes.

    This however leaves the question as to how out old foes the Dourhands fit into all of this? Previously it was assumed by most that Skogrim's people formed one of the Seven Houses by their own, but with the revelation that not even for the playable Stout-Axes is this the case, it would only seem logical that they are likewise a splintered group from one of the larger Houses. Longbeards are easy to rule out because of their shared animosity, while several of ther others are simply located too far to the East.

    The Landorrim are the ones mentioned to reside in the Blue Mountains, which is also where the Dourhands originate. The only other possible option are the Narfanghoth, for which no place of residence is given. They are mentioned to be ancient allies of Durin's Folk, but so are the Landorrim.

    Would MadeOfLions or any other of LOTRO Lore-Keepers care to confirm whether Dourhands are meant to be a splinter group from one of those two Houses? It seems like a logical conslusion to make from what's in the game, but if there is a story reason remaining behind it, just say so and we will be patient

  2. #2

    This thread should have some useful info for you RE- the main Dwarven houses

    As for the Dourhands, as the game-lore clearly locates their origins in Ered Luin, they are probably either from one or a combination of Landorrim and Narfangoth. Stout-Axes are a branch of Kambrada as earlier parts of the Ered Mithrin / Black Book storyline indicate.

    As for some general lore, it's also not clear in Tolkien's text itself whether the Dwarves of Nogrod were Broadbeams, Fire-beards, or both. I would venture to guess "Fire-beards" because Eol the Dark Elf, in "The Silmarillion," sought the Dwarves of Nogrod specifically for their forge-craft. It would make sense as a naming-association; the Nogrod Dwarves forged a necklace to house the Silmaril that Beren and Luthien stole back from Morgoth. They coveted it, they killed King Thingol of the Sindar (*Thranduil the Elven-King's people - yes, that Thranduil from Felegoth in northern Mirkwood, the Elven-King from the Battle of Five Armies as recounted in "The Hobbit"), and these Nogrod Dwarves were ultimately thwarted by Beren. But they still had a population; both Nogrod and Belegost were ruined with the sundering of Beleriand into what becomes the present Ered Luin zone in-game.

    Now, the Devs do not have rights to use any "Silmarillion" material directly. So, that's probably why there's a lot of ambiguity about the Dourhands' origins.

    So, the following is just my speculation, but it really makes sense to me:

    LOTRO's Dourhands are likely ambiguously the descendants of those Nogrod Dwarves (*thus, in-game, either Landorrim, Narfangoth, or a combination- but regardless, a splintered group who left their main Houses), who had largely splintered from the rest of the Dwarves when they did so. That would explain why Skorgrim was after Edhelion, and yes, harrying Elves when we first meet him. It also entirely dislocates the origin of the suspicions between Elves and Dwarves from the Longbeards, who then are basically the wrong group of Dwarves at the short end of King Thranduil's stick, as it were. Thranduil distrusted Dwarves because, in the ancient past, that group of Dwarves from Nogrod killed his King. Celeborn also was there, and that is why he was so quick to blame the Longbeards for awakening the Balrog in Moria and distrusted them as well much later, which means that Gimli had a very special role to play in LOTR

    I agree with you that it would be great if a Blue-Name could comment The above is pretty much the only thing in-game that really would make sense, at least to me. I've always suspected that Sarnur is probably meant to be a remnant of Nogrod with another name, since Nogrod and Belegost were the only Dwarves dwelling in Ered Luin until Thrain, Thorin, and the other Erebor Exiles showed-up from Thror's Coomb nearly two Ages later (*i.e. Edhelion actually falls in the Elf Intro like 300 years before Thrain and company show-up to make what becomes Thorin's Halls). Another thing too is that, as a remnant, their presence makes sense since a lot of those original Ered Luin Dwarves had actually moved to Moria to join the Longbeards.

    So, to me, another really big mystery is: how is it that the Landorrim and Narfanghoth remained separate Houses with such sturdy ranks by the time of the war with Azog, after Moria's downfall?

    Phantion no longer has a character named Phantion in-game. He transferred to Landroval.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Based on the look of the Dourhands, I think they are closer to the Landorrim than the Narfangoth, if their kings are anything to go by!
    - Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
    - Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -

    Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts



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