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  1. #1
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    gone from game many years, levelling new character in a duo

    I am Lifetime player that has been gone from the game for 8+ years (finished Isengard but never did Rohan). I am considering coming back and levelling a character in LotRO with my son; we played Rift, SWTOR and ESO together and are looking for a new game. I had a couple questions:
    1. Is it possible for a duo to level characters in this game and have it be somewhat challenging? I remember the content was usually easy to solo, so I am wondering if it would be a boring levelling grind for two good players. Not talking about the story itself and the scenery, but the challenge of levelling versus steamrolling overland content and getting bored.
    2. He wants to be DPS and is considering a hunter. What would level well with a hunter? Probably ranged, but I played a LM before and want something else. I hear RK's are not so great these days. Minstrel would seem boring with him slaughtering everything and not much to heal. Maybe level two hunters, with mine doing more CC? Would want to be capable of doing group content. If hunter wont work, maybe champ/captain?
    3. Any hints for levelling, like working on deeds/traits/virtues along the way?
    Thanks in advance for any help!
    Ceol, elven loremaster - Landroval
    Duri, dwarven champion - Landroval

  2. #2
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    Point by point:


    1. The vast majority of the landscape will be a complete faceroll as a duo. It's even a complete faceroll solo (significantly easier than you remember it). You can mitigate this somewhat by running content above your level, but unless you deliberately limit your gear as well red quests will still be too easy most of the time and while purple mobs might fight back a bit (you can no longer do purple quests, a change from when you last played, but you can now actually fight and defeat purple mobs) they are more tedious than challenging as the main threat is that they avoid or ignore most of your attacks (they also give no XP). If you want a challenge, you will pretty much exclusively find that challenge in instanced content. If challenge is what you're after, you may want a Stone of the Tortoise (which disables XP while equipped) from the store to run non-scaling instances with, so you do not out-level them mid-run.
    2. Hunter can work well with anything as a duo, though on the landscape you will see a lot of stuff being dead before you can melee it if you keep your gear relatively current as you level. For instances/group stuff it would work great with a warden/captain/beorning (if you want to buy beorning)/guardian, as they could be tanky when needed, though you may disappointingly find that a lot of older content has aged poorly and no longer really needs a tank. There is instanced content available at certain level ranges that would provide an enjoyable (if you're into masochism) challenge for a hunter/(something with a tank/heal spec) duo however, if again challenge is what you're looking for. Most other duo setups would also work well if hunter/X turns out to not be what you're looking for, though [captain or beorning] + something else would probably give you the most powerful 6-man/12-man instance running duo.
    3. You should definately work on deeds along the way (virtues have changed dramatically since you last played and they now try to force every deed down your throat rather than letting you pick the ones giving virtues you want), especially the class deeds that give trait points (that's also new). You do also have to consider that up until around level 90, there is WAY more XP available than you need, and if you try to finish all your deeds and quests and instances you will be massively over-level for the content before you even get to it. There is a (previously mentioned) item that allows you to disable XP as-needed if you want to do everything at- or below-level, though the alternative is to just keep going and come back for the more tedious deeds when you vastly out-level them and can opt to only fight the mobs you want to fight/explore without being attacked.
    Saelraen Feywind, Third Worst Champion on Landroval
    Dead and buried, gone and forgotten. Mostly.
    Sunshine and rainbows and death! Yay!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eol View Post
    2. He wants to be DPS and is considering a hunter. What would level well with a hunter? Probably ranged, but I played a LM before and want something else. I hear RK's are not so great these days. Minstrel would seem boring with him slaughtering everything and not much to heal.
    I've played a lot of duo Minstrel + Hunter, I was the Minstrel and I did just as much slaughtering as the Hunter Minstrels don't have to be healers if they don't want to, you can have lots of fun with a dps Minstrel

    But since different people enjoy different things I suggest trying several classes and see which one seem more fun to you. Just keep in mind that if one is playing a ranged class, and the other is playing a melee class, you will have to constantly check what you hit so that the melee person doesn't have to run up to a monster and then chase it back towards the ranged person to be able to hit it XD
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

  4. #4
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    I have enjoyed playing a duo as a Burglar paired with a Hunter.
    But as mentioned above, you should coordinate, as the Hunter will keep you running back and forth trying to stay in range to backstab or just even hit something.
    If you can easily coordinate your efforts it can be fun.

    ...Burglar sneaks in and does a stealthed backstab, then the Hunter shoots. Result: dead mob almost every time.

    The Hunter needs to allow the Burglar to 'do his thing' and then follow it up with an arrow, or, alternatively, shoot something else.

    Definitely purchase the Pocket Item: Stone of the Tortoise: cost 100LP.

    Like I told you...What I said...Steal your face right off your head.

  5. #5
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    Looks at responses and shakes head...

    1. Is it possible for a duo to level characters in this game and have it be somewhat challenging?

    Soon, yes. They are adding new tech to the game that is going to allow players to adjust the difficulty of landscape mobs to make them more challenging. It's supposed to come with the next update which is probably in June or July.

  6. #6
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    There are 2 person instances that may be challenging - as said above landscape will be easy.

    Minstrel goes well with hunter. Red minstrel has very good dps - I have four new 130s and the red minstrel kills faster than the lore-master, beorning or champion with comparable gear.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingularityNow View Post
    Looks at responses and shakes head...

    1. Is it possible for a duo to level characters in this game and have it be somewhat challenging?

    Soon, yes. They are adding new tech to the game that is going to allow players to adjust the difficulty of landscape mobs to make them more challenging. It's supposed to come with the next update which is probably in June or July.
    I didn't get the memo.
    Is this posted somewhere? Or, on a stream or something that I can find?

    Like I told you...What I said...Steal your face right off your head.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boraxxe View Post
    I didn't get the memo.
    Is this posted somewhere? Or, on a stream or something that I can find?
    I'm not sure about this "adjusting difficulty" option, but there was talk about a challenging legendary server.

    We originally learned about that during the producer's letter last year - https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articl...tter-look-2020

    "This fall will also see a new Legendary server! We are looking forward to adding new challenges and gameplay experiences for this new server. In our current vision for this server, Sauron will play a more active role in punishing heroes who defy his will. At times during play, the Eye of Sauron will open, inspiring all the evil in the world to rally and rise to his dark challenge. These enemies will become far more dangerous during this time. However, when the Eye is open, your characters will rise to the challenge and deliver greatly increased damage in defiance of the Dark Lord. Beware when the Eye of Sauron is open! We intend to keep the current Legendary experience going in 2020 as well, and will continue to open up new content on those servers."

    Unfortunately this didn't come to play since they had a few problems prop up with the servers that had to be taken care of during the Midsummer Festival. However, they continue to press on in a series of Q&A streams that it is still being looked at.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeirdJedi View Post
    ...We originally learned about that during the producer's letter last year - https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articl...tter-look-2020

    "This fall will also see a new Legendary server! We are looking forward to adding new challenges and gameplay experiences for this new server. In our current vision for this server, Sauron will play a more active role in punishing heroes who defy his will. At times during play, the Eye of Sauron will open, inspiring all the evil in the world to rally and rise to his dark challenge. These enemies will become far more dangerous during this time. However, when the Eye is open, your characters will rise to the challenge and deliver greatly increased damage in defiance of the Dark Lord. Beware when the Eye of Sauron is open! We intend to keep the current Legendary experience going in 2020 as well, and will continue to open up new content on those servers."

    ...
    Thanks, I'll keep my ears open...

    Like I told you...What I said...Steal your face right off your head.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boraxxe View Post
    Thanks, I'll keep my ears open...
    You two should watch the latest cordovan stream.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boraxxe View Post
    I didn't get the memo.
    Is this posted somewhere? Or, on a stream or something that I can find?
    I'm pretty sure it was brought up in the last stream Cord did with Sev and it may have been mentioned in the stream with the new Producer (I think he talked about them play testing it internally). But I'm old and my memory may be flaky. But have a gander.

  12. #12

    FOTM this season are Champ and Captain

    I'm sure a lot of people have many opinions of which class to play but this season it's pretty much Champion and Captains. They are the strongest during this season.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Altair6 View Post
    I'm pretty sure it was brought up in the last stream Cord did with Sev and it may have been mentioned in the stream with the new Producer (I think he talked about them play testing it internally). But I'm old and my memory may be flaky. But have a gander.
    Wonder how that works if one player has easy setting and another has hard and they're in the same fellowship or randomly hitting the same mob in landscape not in fellowship? To be fair I haven't read up or followed this.
    Must remember to engage brain before using keyboard

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingularityNow View Post
    You two should watch the latest cordovan stream.
    I really don't like listening to podcasts or watching streams. It's sort of the same way I feel when people watch other people play the game. I don't find it enjoyable and I get bored really easy when they ramble on about miscellaneous things. That's why I only pay attention to the forum. It only takes me a couple minutes to read and feels a little more official. But that is also why I try to include a disclaimer when something comes out that hasn't been stated on the forums.

    Yet, I truly appreciate when other people post news from the test realm or the streams on the forums. This is the first time I'm hearing about it and I'll find out more when I can get a hold of a script or some written form of this new intel.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catburg View Post
    Wonder how that works if one player has easy setting and another has hard and they're in the same fellowship or randomly hitting the same mob in landscape not in fellowship? To be fair I haven't read up or followed this.
    I guess one way would be to apply some kind of debuff to players who choose hard - reduced damage and lowered mits, etc. So that wouldn't stop easy and hard players hitting the same mobs or being in the same area, etc.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catburg View Post
    Wonder how that works if one player has easy setting and another has hard and they're in the same fellowship or randomly hitting the same mob in landscape not in fellowship? To be fair I haven't read up or followed this.
    It hasn't really been up for testing (on Bullroarer I mean), but on the last BR preview (for Wildwood) the NPC was at the Eyes & Guard Tavern to activate the difficulty mode you wanted (there's 3 tiers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair6 View Post
    I guess one way would be to apply some kind of debuff to players who choose hard - reduced damage and lowered mits, etc. So that wouldn't stop easy and hard players hitting the same mobs or being in the same area, etc.
    I post most of my BR info on Twitter (under #LOTRO) or my blog coz these forums are such a PITA to log in & load pics to. And I have shared the Eyes effects that we were able to experience on BR but like I said, it wasn't a part of the preview so you can't expect the effects to be completely implemented.

    I can share here the tooltips I made about the landscape difficulty effects on Deadly mode, the highest one - which funnily enough applied inside 3 mans too (and everyone was affected by it even when I was the only one with it active - can't say what's WAI at this point). Duration of the eye once it appears was 3 minutes - and the pics were taken by a lvl 130 toon.



    Last edited by Laurelinarien; May 06 2021 at 12:21 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeirdJedi View Post
    I really don't like listening to podcasts or watching streams. It's sort of the same way I feel when people watch other people play the game. I don't find it enjoyable and I get bored really easy when they ramble on about miscellaneous things. That's why I only pay attention to the forum. It only takes me a couple minutes to read and feels a little more official. But that is also why I try to include a disclaimer when something comes out that hasn't been stated on the forums.

    Yet, I truly appreciate when other people post news from the test realm or the streams on the forums. This is the first time I'm hearing about it and I'll find out more when I can get a hold of a script or some written form of this new intel.
    I'm not saying I disagree with your feelings on streams but when you see thing said on here that you don't know about, don't just assume its wrong or doubt it's validity. You're missing out on the main way SSG disseminates news now.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by SingularityNow View Post
    You're missing out on the main way SSG disseminates news now.
    And that's bad.
    All informations must be on the Forum.

    As for the topic.
    I suppose if you want "challenge" you can try to do quests with a lot more levels than your toons. But it will be in contradiction with deeds so you will be obliged to take tortoise stone.
    And for the second class, for leveling I don't see why RK will not be good. In my opinion all classes are good choice for a duo. So take what you like.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelinarien View Post
    I can share here the tooltips I made about the landscape difficulty effects on Deadly mode, the highest one - which funnily enough applied inside 3 mans too (and everyone was affected by it even when I was the only one with it active - can't say what's WAI at this point).
    Yes, that seems a bit odd. I can see this turning into another thing that discourages grouping for instances and raids whichever way it works. In that people either won't want someone who's going to do less damage and possibly cause them to do less if it works as in your case or, if it doesn't, will want everyone to have the same "harder" difficulty setting to avoid "easy" players blowing everything up anyway, thus negating or diluting the challenge.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingularityNow View Post
    Looks at responses and shakes head...

    Soon, yes. They are adding new tech to the game that is going to allow players to adjust the difficulty of landscape mobs to make them more challenging. It's supposed to come with the next update which is probably in June or July.
    I read this as 'implemented design flaws forcing another design change'.
    'Ú-damdir.' Welcome to the Fourth Age of this World - The game breaking days.
    Palenen - Elendilmir - The royal gem of Arnor - "May you 'Jingle Jangle' into the West." <- This was even messed up too.

  21. #21
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    Thank you so much for the feedback. Very helpful.

    I guess it raises a question: what is the fun of levelling a character if you can faceroll most content so easily? Yes the story is nice but I have already done that through level 80-something, and it is hard to see my son staying interested in a game for so many levels just for the sake of the story. Getting to max level wouldn't really help since max level group content is not really our thing. It's fine, but that alone is not enough reason for us to stay with a game, much less to level characters just to get to max level.

    It sounds like we could do some instances along the way, but then we would have to grind the overland quests/virtues/deeds separately, and besides, would that really be enough to keep things interesting for us? Any thoughts/suggestions?
    Ceol, elven loremaster - Landroval
    Duri, dwarven champion - Landroval

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eol View Post
    Thank you so much for the feedback. Very helpful.

    I guess it raises a question: what is the fun of levelling a character if you can faceroll most content so easily? Yes the story is nice but I have already done that through level 80-something, and it is hard to see my son staying interested in a game for so many levels just for the sake of the story. Getting to max level wouldn't really help since max level group content is not really our thing. It's fine, but that alone is not enough reason for us to stay with a game, much less to level characters just to get to max level.

    It sounds like we could do some instances along the way, but then we would have to grind the overland quests/virtues/deeds separately, and besides, would that really be enough to keep things interesting for us? Any thoughts/suggestions?
    Faceroll landscape is not a LOTRO only phenomenon. Most MMOs have taken exactly the same path. If you got along in Rift, SWTOR, and ESO, you'll do it here too.

    And if it really should be too easy, then make the challenge yourself. Pull as many opponents as you can in orc camps etc.
    And by the way, there are also some areas that are more designed for small groups (Dol Dinen, Agamaur, East-Angmar) that are a bit "heavier".

    A big plus point to keep your son interested could simply be the diversity of the areas up to level 50. The first instances are from level 20 and many are scalable. And as soon as you are in Moria, it will be really exciting again, imo. Especially the many instances there.


  23. #23
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    What does “hard” mean?

    What does “hard” mean when talking about landscape content? When playing through something designed for a single player or a very small group, there is almost nothing in the way of tactics. Unlike a tabletop game of D&D, you can’t come up with a whacky plan and like most games of this type you can’t shock or demoralize your opponents (even if “health” in LOTRO is called “morale”) so with insignificant exceptions they don’t run away or call for help or decide to chase you into the ambush you prepared. Hard means it takes a little longer to kill something or, in extreme cases, you might not be able to kill something until you gain a level or upgrade some other element of your character. Easy means you kill stuff fast, don’t have to pause much or at all between pulls, and can take on multiple enemies at once with little chance of needing to retreat or chance of dying.

    But hard doesn’t mean you have to be better at playing the game. Sure, you’ll have an easier time if you can push the most efficient buttons at the right time. The more you know, the better you can do – but better still just means faster than a player who isn’t as good.

    So I don’t think this is worth worrying about very much.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eol View Post
    Thank you so much for the feedback. Very helpful.

    I guess it raises a question: what is the fun of levelling a character if you can faceroll most content so easily?
    I cannot answer this for anyone else, but for me I like the way it is because after a stressful day at work, I just want to relax and play while having fun talking to kinnies. I'm wore out from the day, and the last thing I want is a challenge of any sort. LOTRO provides what I need.

    And that's not including the fact that I love the storylines, the scenery, , checking out other player's outfits, listening to people play music at the South Bree Gate, and so on.

    And let's not mention my 4 premium houses and one regular that I spent days decorating.

    Like I said though, I cannot speak for anyone else, I'm speaking only for me.
    "Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your children when you wanted to."

  25. #25
    If you have already duo-ed with your son in SWTOR, you will probably find the landscape difficulty here to be similar, or perhaps even harder, since so many things go into making your character competent - virtues, traits, legendary items (crystals, scrolls and relics) as well as gear - all of which can have a significant effect at higher levels. (Compare this to SWTOR where your gear and your companion rank are primarily the main factors.)

    There are a ton of instances here, as well as skirmishes and fellowship landscape areas, that you can use if you and your son are in a mood for a challenge. I duo with my son as well, and we enjoy the landscape for the story and a more relaxing pace, and when we are in the mood for something that tests our abilities, we go into old instances, which even when done overleveled, can be challenging for a duo.

    With my son and I, I play a tank-specced captain and my son plays a DPS minstrel. I started in the DPS spec but had to switch because of the issue that other people have already mentioned, where my son would pull all the mobs onto him (and then die, heh) while I spent all my time just chasing them around trying to get a hit in. So if you choose to duo with a melee class and a ranged class, I would recommend that the melee be a tank so that you have access to aggro draw abilities to keep the mobs on you. (I would recommend captain or beorning for this role.)

    Keep in mind that there will always be "flavor of the month" classes, just like there are in every game, and that unless you plan to level a whole bunch of 130's and/or do end game raiding at an elite tier, you should just choose what you enjoy playing the most!

 

 
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