Brawler news article

[Macroscian]

We will have a lot more to say about the brawler in the future, and that should help provide context into how the class fits into the world organically. While this is all leaked info from datamining, it is nice to see some of the mechanics start to get out there. HOWEVER: Please note that ALL OF THIS is very very much a work in progress, so virtually all numbers, text, and mechanics are in some stage of not-ready.

Wasn't Tulkas the classic brawler?

[Radhruin_EU]

Wasn't Tulkas the classic brawler?

They can't reference Tulkas in the game for licensing reasons.

[Hobbit_bounder]

Lore concerns are ridiculous. To pretend that no one in Middle-earth ever fought weaponless is absurd. There are already many examples, as MoL and others have covered. Our own characters already punch when we're disarmed by mobs, and existing racial skills include Uppercut and Head Bash.

It is normal to use things like an Uppercut or a Head Bash during a fight with a weapon. When fighting you use your entire body, however these things are the exception.
What is absurd is hundreds of guys running around in Middle-Earth using nothing but their fists. I don't know if people are just playing dumb in this thread, but this is obvious. It would be very unrealistic to enter fights unarmed against opponents with weapons.

I get that sometimes things have to be adjusted for gameplay reasons. Like the minstrel class, hobbits, or the female race option.
This class however is completely unnecessary. It is loosely based on a character (Helm Hammerhand) that was clearly an exception in the book and a character who was a Valar (Tulkas). This doesn't justify having so many of this class running around Middle-Earth punching armed opponents.

The fact that we need to explain all this baffles me. If you don't care about realism then fine, use that as your argument. But don't pretend it would be a normal thing. The movies would look ridiculous if Theoden and his riders would fight unarmed on the Pelennor Fields. Or Aragorn using nothing but his fists at Amon Hen...

[Tancanspanc]

Makes more sense then any other race running around punching the enemy.

So what you are saying is that we already have a 'brawler' class in the game: Beorning in bear form.

If people like the sound of this 'new' class (simply replace the reported 'Mettle' mechanic for Wrath), then why not role a Beorning?

[Elmagor]

So what you are saying is that we already have a 'brawler' class in the game: Beorning in bear form.

If people like the sound of this 'new' class (simply replace the reported 'Mettle' mechanic for Wrath), then why not role a Beorning?

Even more funny thing: if you open videos in the game, in classes you will see brawler link. But it lead to... beorning video

[Tancanspanc]

It is normal to use things like an Uppercut or a Head Bash during a fight with a weapon. When fighting you use your entire body, however these things are the exception.
What is absurd is hundreds of guys running around in Middle-Earth using nothing but their fists. I don't know if people are just playing dumb in this thread, but this is obvious. It would be very unrealistic to enter fights unarmed against opponents with weapons.

I get that sometimes things have to be adjusted for gameplay reasons. Like the minstrel class, hobbits, or the female race option.
This class however is completely unnecessary. It is loosely based on a character (Helm Hammerhand) that was clearly an exception in the book and a character who was a Valar (Tulkas). This doesn't justify having so many of this class running around Middle-Earth punching armed opponents.

The fact that we need to explain all this baffles me. If you don't care about realism then fine, use that as your argument. But don't pretend it would be a normal thing. The movies would look ridiculous if Theoden and his riders would fight unarmed on the Pelennor Fields. Or Aragorn using nothing but his fists at Amon Hen...

Yep, agree entirely.

Cannot understand the people (including MOL) cherry picking examples such as Tulkas (a Valar) or Helm (a one-off hero of years past) to represent the archetype for a whole class.

Still, perhaps this opens the door for a host of exciting future classes based on rare examples of behaviour from heroic figures of the past. A shapeshifting Vampire class based on Luthien, A Golfer class based on Bandobras Took, A flying mariner class based on Earendil, An incestuous anti-hero class based on Turin. The possibilities are endless.

[BinaryTertiary]

It is normal to use things like an Uppercut or a Head Bash during a fight with a weapon.

not true

wrestling was the predominant "fisticuffs" for majority of hand-to-hand combat and many current day martial arts employ the very foundations of wrestling
this typically shows during medieval era where once weapons were locked, the combatants would try to lock each others limbs to get an eye, then pull out a dagger to slip it between or behind the plating and wound the enemy

there is next to none "direct punching" involved in actual combat, there's a reason cqb teaches "takedowns" and not "jabs"

[Tancanspanc]

If we do get this Brawler class (and I think it is 'when' not 'if'), I am going to start a Brawler-only kin, and call it Fight Club.

We'll obviously need some rules, and the first rule of Fight Club is...

(oh heck, broken it already).

[Seregthol]

Still, perhaps this opens the door for a host of exciting future classes based on rare examples of behaviour from heroic figures of the past. A shapeshifting Vampire class based on Luthien, A Golfer class based on Bandobras Took, A flying mariner class based on Earendil, An incestuous anti-hero class based on Turin. The possibilities are endless.

And somewhere right now there is an SSG Dev scribbling frantically with four brand new ideas for upcoming classes!

Thanks a lot! lol

[Hobbit_bounder]

Yep, agree entirely.

Cannot understand the people (including MOL) cherry picking examples such as Tulkas (a Valar) or Helm (a one-off hero of years past) to represent the archetype for a whole class.

Still, perhaps this opens the door for a host of exciting future classes based on rare examples of behaviour from heroic figures of the past. A shapeshifting Vampire class based on Luthien, A Golfer class based on Bandobras Took, A flying mariner class based on Earendil, An incestuous anti-hero class based on Turin. The possibilities are endless.

Haha, please don't give them any ideas!!

not true

wrestling was the predominant "fisticuffs" for majority of hand-to-hand combat and many current day martial arts employ the very foundations of wrestling
this typically shows during medieval era where once weapons were locked, the combatants would try to lock each others limbs to get an eye, then pull out a dagger to slip it between or behind the plating and wound the enemy

there is next to none "direct punching" involved in actual combat, there's a reason cqb teaches "takedowns" and not "jabs"

It is still way more realistic than using your fists only. What I described you at least see in movies or read about in books. For example when a character keeps hold of someone's arm, so that they can't use their weapon and proceed to give them a headbutt. Or their weapons get stuck with each other and they kick or headbutt.

Edit: I wasn't implying they use it out of the blue, but in situations as I described above. Now maybe this isn't what happens in the game, but I can do with a little imagination.

[MadeOfLions]

cherry picking examples... to represent the archetype for a whole class.

You mean like we've done from the very beginning? Even before the game came out, there were arguments about our choices of which characters best represented each of the classes. It's not for nothing that I wrote a class quest where Sam insisted that you must have misheard 'Gardener' when you were directed to speak with him about what epitomizes a Guardian.

As for whether anyone brawled in Middle-earth, I think it's clear that they did. Should they square off against one of the Nazgul? If there's a Minstrel nearby to sing at it, or a Burglar nearby to confound it with riddles, maybe...

But I think Cord is right, and there'll be plenty of time to delve into the class when it's closer, so I'll bow out here and wait until there's more to talk about.

MoL

[Seregthol]

[QUOTE=MadeOfLions;8069738]
As for whether anyone brawled in Middle-earth, I think it's clear that they did. Should they square off against one of the Nazgul? If there's a Minstrel nearby to sing at it, or a Burglar nearby to confound it with riddles, maybe...
/QUOTE]


A drunken brawl at an Inn is one thing...but against armor and swords on a battle field? That's just silly. Yet, if it brings in more cash for the company, then I guess we're going to see it soon.

[Thurallor]

A drunken brawl at an Inn is one thing...but against armor and swords on a battle field? That's just silly.

Sillier than defeating a monster with your awesome violin music or riddles?

[LeRaginAsian]

Sillier than defeating a monster with your awesome violin music or riddles?

I don't know what Burglar you've been playing, but my riddles themselves haven't actually defeated anyone in 14 years.

As for violins... well music is the very foundation of this mythology, so someone who has mastered one of its best instruments surely wields the very fate of Middle Earth.

Also I have personally witnessed music melting faces in real life and can attest to its power.

[Arnenna]

Also I have personally witnessed music melting faces in real life and can attest to its power.

Hmmm, I suppose the same can be said about fists.

With the argument brought in about fighting fists against armour and weapons, it seems even less likely that this class will fit, at first glance anyway. But, then I think of a lesson I was always taught as a young girl, and one that I passed down to my own girls. If cornered or in a dangerous situation - come out fighting. Kick, punch, bite, scratch, pinch, grab a stone, stick - whatever it takes, but never give up or succumb to despondence.

Adrenalin is a powerful weapon. If you're gonna go down, give em hell on the way.

[Wyllshire]

But, then I think of a lesson I was always taught as a young girl, and one that I passed down to my own girls. If cornered or in a dangerous situation - come out fighting. Kick, punch, bite, scratch, pinch, grab a stone, stick - whatever it takes, but never give up or succumb to despondence.

Adrenalin is a powerful weapon. If you're gonna go down, give em hell on the way.

Excellent advice. And on a related topic, apparently the new "Brawler" class will have only one attack skill, which will be button mashed over, and over, and over again. This skill will be labeled; "Crotch Kick".

[Radhruin_EU]

Sillier than defeating a monster with your awesome violin music or riddles?

Brawler being perhaps no more silly than Minstrel is hardly much of a selling point

[Arnenna]

Excellent advice. And on a related topic, apparently the new "Brawler" class will have only one attack skill, which will be button mashed over, and over, and over again. This skill will be labeled; "Crotch Kick".

I'm sure that move will be sufficient in the right scenario, however, it's not just females that find themselves in dangerous situations and danger doesn't always come in such a form where that move would work

I'm still on the fence about brawler. As I said earlier, if it's subtle, then I could go for it, but I really don't want to see a crazy martial artist with bladed hands or feet, spinning around in the air, throwing punches or performing slide kicks, and goodness forbid, wax on, wax off.

[Nelliezz]

I wish they would stop adding more of these silly things to the game.. I know people always defend these out-of-place additions to the game by saying "is it more silly than this or that"..
Isn't there a fine line here for you as well? For me personally, they crossed it a long time ago with bears, crazy costumes, high-elves that have been sleeping for 1k years etc etc..

So I actually cringe for every new addition they make that just doesn't fit into the lotr universe.. I KNOW there are many other things in the game that don't make sense but no excuse to add more of it.. When it comes to classes, couldn't you have thought of something better than a first fighting "brawler".. -.-"

[azurebob99]

...high-elves that have been sleeping for 1k years...

Personally I've always (well, since it was added anyway) found the idea that there were thousands of comatose high elves locked in Elrond's basement until the time was right far more ridiculous than the lore justification behind any of the current classes.

Brawler does have the flimsiest justification behind it so far though (personally I didn't have much issue with "words have power, and we choose to represent that power as fire and lightning because it's cool and we already have a number of shouting-based classes" for runekeeper, though I can see where others would), but it's not like players can shout the idea down or demand a more logical explanation (one will not be forthcoming). Someone somewhere along the chain of command decided that martial arts (or unarmed combat overall) is popular, so we're getting an unarmed fighter whether we want one or not.

If people want my opinion (if you don't care, feel free not to read, I do not matter), this game already has too many classes and there's no need for a new class at all. Of course it's much easier to sell a shiny new class (even if it's pretty bad at first like beorning was, though if it's overpowered it'll sell even better!) than trying to charge people in the store for incremental guardian changes, a better designed tanking system or more creative instance mechanics.

[Fegefeuer]

I just imagine hobbit brawler VS Balrog.

No need to imagine anything else

[Altair6]

I wish they would stop adding more of these silly things to the game.. I know people always defend these out-of-place additions to the game by saying "is it more silly than this or that"..
Isn't there a fine line here for you as well? For me personally, they crossed it a long time ago with bears, crazy costumes, high-elves that have been sleeping for 1k years etc etc..

So I actually cringe for every new addition they make that just doesn't fit into the lotr universe.. I KNOW there are many other things in the game that don't make sense but no excuse to add more of it.. When it comes to classes, couldn't you have thought of something better than a first fighting "brawler".. -.-"

I agree. For me they jumped the shark a while ago. No question. Not happy with having done it once, however, they keep on doing it. (Face-to-face with Sauron. Using the Three Rings in siege of Mordor/Barad Dur.) This is, of course, my personal opinion.

That's the thing with stories, everyone has their own version in their head (cf. the films) and how far is too far will vary.

[Thorondir]

A drunken brawl at an Inn is one thing...but against armor and swords on a battle field? That's just silly. Yet, if it brings in more cash for the company, then I guess we're going to see it soon.

It is not sillier than trying to defeat Storvagun, Thaurlach, ... while not even being able to look above their foots, with your sword shipping away at their toes ...

[Radhruin_EU]

It is not sillier than trying to defeat Storvagun, Thaurlach, ... while not even being able to look above their foots, with your sword shipping away at their toes ...

Nah, punching the toes would still manage to look even sillier and more to the point, it'd look silly all the time rather than just with those things you've cherry-picked.

[TharbadThief]

The Brawler should definitely get its own flashy combat animations. May I suggest: