Lotro endgame becoming way too ''noob'' friendly

[Arnenna]

Let me explain. This is not only a hc raiding kin problem. Right now we try to find people for a "medicore" kin/raid. So you invite players with good gear - sometimes even yellow stuff, but they do not know how to move, they do not know the basics of their class.
Actually a captain with only Shaka gear - and no time to grind sidebosses, is sometimes a better player than players with a FULL RAID set. But how should we know? It is just terrible.
And even as a non hard core raider I do understand those who kinda find it unfair that they do not get anything from actually hardcore raiding anymore.

+ You say the raid ist old? Probably 90%+ players did still not complete ID4 in T2....So...For many it is actually pretty present.

People that do not know how to move, or how to play a class - this is not going to help them, so don't worry about their wasted embers.

The raid is old, and yes there are players that have not completed it on all tiers, or even half the tiers. This gear may give them a nudge, or it could be that gear is not what's stopping them. They can still keep up their goals, nobody is going to hold them down and make them barter for this gear.

[Arnenna]

It won't help anyone. Remm gear only matters with setbonuses and you need to clear T2 to get set bonuses from this. If they were already clearing T2 then they already had the set bonus. Unfortunately they've now devalued continued runs for that group as it's somewhat more efficient to grind embers elsewhere and simply barter the gear.

So yay, a change that mildly reduces the number of people heading into raids and does nothing to close any gaps between those who raid and those who don't.

If players that enjoy harder content decide to now go into MM dailies and t2 stairs runs in search of embers, rather than do the content they actually enjoy, then all I can say is, more fool them. They can't have been enjoying it much to begin with if they are that easily swayed. For people that are insisting that good reward should come from harder content - go do the content for it. It's a choice.

I like to climb a local mountain each summer, but you know, there is a train I could get on to go to the summit and enjoy the reward at the top. I've never taken the train. Thousands of people do each year, and the rest of us (also thousands) still climb. Their 30 quid ticket costs less than one of my boots. It's a choice.

[Joedangod]

If players that enjoy harder content decide to now go into MM dailies and t2 stairs runs in search of embers, rather than do the content they actually enjoy, then all I can say is, more fool them. They can't have been enjoying it much to begin with if they are that easily swayed. For people that are insisting that good reward should come from harder content - go do the content for it. It's a choice.

I like to climb a local mountain each summer, but you know, there is a train I could get on to go to the summit and enjoy the reward at the top. I've never taken the train. Thousands of people do each year, and the rest of us (also thousands) still climb.

Hiking doesn't require encouraging 11 other people to do it with you. The loss of one person can be enough to force the other 11 to take the train here.

[Rimenuir]

If players that enjoy harder content decide to now go into MM dailies and t2 stairs runs in search of embers, rather than do the content they actually enjoy, then all I can say is, more fool them. They can't have been enjoying it much to begin with if they are that easily swayed. For people that are insisting that good reward should come from harder content - go do the content for it. It's a choice.

This is a really weird argument because I can run t5 stairs and get 1 purple item, 2 teals, and maybe an essence box. On t1 I can get 3 teals (which seems to be my regular loot) and an essence box and crystal (Ive gotten some decent RNG lately). Why would I spend the time in t5 when t1 is giving me more rewards? Thats the problem with this change. They're not incentivizing t3 anymore, and are barely incentivizing t2.

[Arnenna]

Hiking doesn't require encouraging 11 other people to do it with you. The loss of one person can be enough to force the other 11 to take the train here.

You'd be surprised how hard it is to get a party of people to take a 9 hour hike upward. If one doesn't want to go, the others will look for another. Nobody takes the train. Look for another and don't use the train. Job done.

[Arnenna]

This is a really weird argument because I can run t5 stairs and get 1 purple item, 2 teals, and maybe an essence box. On t1 I can get 3 teals (which seems to be my regular loot) and an essence box and crystal (Ive gotten some decent RNG lately). Why would I spend the time in t5 when t1 is giving me more rewards? Thats the problem with this change. They're not incentivizing t3 anymore, and are barely incentivizing t2.

Your RNG is certainly being favorable. I rarely see a teal in t1, though they drop a bit in t2. I've seen really good loot in t3. And its only a weird argument if you actually don't prefer doing the harder runs. Do what you enjoy. Back to my mountain example. Train riders spend 3 hours sitting comfortably, perhaps with a nice warm coffee, taking in the scenery as they ride around the mountain. At the top, you will find them in the tourist centre, again having a nice coffee, being nice and clean while they wait an hour for their return ride. My climb takes 9 hours, straight up, and when I arrive at the top I'm flat on my back in the grass (or mud, depending on the weather) stinking dirty, soaking wet (rain or sweat, take your pick) burning everywhere and trying to catch a breath.

But I wouldn't trade it.

[Joedangod]

You'd be surprised how hard it is to get a party of people to take a 9 hour hike upward. If one doesn't want to go, the others will look for another. Nobody takes the train. Look for another and don't use the train. Job done.

...I really shouldn't have indulged the bad metaphor. Granted you probably should have realised it was bad from my response.

Hiking has very little in common with raiding in MMO's. What you're saying doesn't make any logical sense to the situation.

[Arnenna]

...I really shouldn't have indulged the bad metaphor. Granted you probably should have realised it was bad from my response.

Hiking has very little in common with raiding in MMO's. What you're saying doesn't make any logical sense to the situation.

I'll give it to you without the metaphor then, seeing as you can't or refuse to relate.

Do what you enjoy, for what you enjoy getting out of it.

[Joedangod]

Do what you enjoy, for what you enjoy getting out of it.

That's just irrelevant fortune cookie "wisdom".

Those who were enjoying progressing through Remm now get to see their journey cut short as the gear incentive is removed and thus it becomes more difficult to find fellow players to participate. This change is pretty much only good for the part of the population that wants to raid T2 once and have no interest in T3.

[Rimenuir]

I've seen really good loot in t3. And its only a weird argument if you actually don't prefer doing the harder runs.

That's the thing tho, what I enjoy is being rewarded for running high tiered content. People wouldn't run Shelob t4 if there weren't BiS bracers in there, same with AM ears. Once they add these to a barter for a lower tier than what is needed, they take the incentive out of the run.

[CaerArianrhod]

(BR notes)

Why is lotro going down this route of giving everyone free stuff and free completions for zero work put in? [...] not just enter x instance and get the completion automatically for zero work put in)

I really don't know what is wrong with you. But every time i read something from you it's a hyper exaggerated post.
First of all this items are not for free: they cost ash and ppl will have to grind the game for get the ash. That means: weekly in Echad Uial, Nazguls, Limlók, Annák-Kurfu, run the 6-mal t1 on daily base etc. etc etc. That is not "zero work put in". So why do you lie here in the public?

[Cordovan]

There is plenty of room to discuss skill level and end game, but a thread about whether end game is too "noob friendly" will inevitably cause the forum fights we have been seeing in the thread. Skill classification war fights are not productive.