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  1. #1

    Runekeeper Updates

    To the folks testing the new update:

    Is this change enough to bring RK back to the raiding? How much more DPS does this do. Doesn't Ceaseless argument have a 3 minute CD? 10 sec to 3 minute doesnt seem very substantial.
    .
    <img src='http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000001967b0/01008/signature.png'></img>

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharlzan View Post
    To the folks testing the new update:

    Is this change enough to bring RK back to the raiding? How much more DPS does this do. Doesn't Ceaseless argument have a 3 minute CD? 10 sec to 3 minute doesnt seem very substantial.
    Ok, firstly, I must ask, do you actually play RK, because, you are managing to confuse two skills, two cooldown timers AND a trait in one sentence, this hurt my brain let alone anyone elses. So let's just get a few things clear;

    ==

    When you are saying "Ceaseless Argument" this is the skill you are talking about;



    Which is the cornerstone of RK DPS, it also has a 3 second cooldown, and not a 3 minute cooldown.

    ==

    You are obviously talking about "Concession and Rebuttal" in your question;



    Which has a 3 minute cooldown.

    ==

    However, neither of the aforementioned have anything to do with the TRAIT (not skill) that is having changes made to it with this BR build, which is "Closing Remarks";



    The change in U29 is as follows; Rune-keeper - When the Closing Remarks buff is consumed by Epic Conclusion, it is replaced by the Aftershock buff, providing +20% Lightning Dmg & +25% Lightning Crit chance for up to 10s, or until it is replaced by a new instance of Closing Remarks.

    ==

    No, this change alone is not enough to make RK competitive, however, it does ensure that as a RK you are no longer at a disadvantage if you choose to trait Closing Remarks, which you previously were.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    Ok, firstly, I must ask, do you actually play RK, because, you are managing to confuse two skills, two cooldown timers AND a trait in one sentence, this hurt my brain let alone anyone elses.
    So savage LOLLLL

    Obviously they play RK, otherwise they wouldn't know the skill name, the cooldown timer, and the trait. But maybe they play blindfolded using a special one-button macro that just activates a skill at random.

  4. #4
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    This is pretty much how I'd sort out the RK.

    - Reduce CD of CA to 0 sec, it should be our auto-attack, maybe also slightly reduce dmg.
    - Big damage boost for Scribe Spark
    - Decrease Writ of lightning damage (so you only apply this in order to keep it tiered, not for the damage).
    - Big damage boost for Shocking Words (maybe even increased crit chance)
    - Big damage boost for EC (maybe even increased crit chance)
    - Slightly increase AOE radius of Static Surge

    I got no ideas for what to do with Concession and Rebuttal tho...

    However my changes are pretty much, increase damage of cash-out skills and Scribe Spark, give us back our "auto-attack" and make RK's use Writ of lightning as an actual debuff instead as a part of the dps rotation like it is now. So the idea would be to first build up attunement, and then cash-out immediately, alternating between Shocking Words and EC, at the same time you also gotta keep T3 WoL.



    Even thought the actual numbers of the damage increases/decreases would have to be tested.

    The devlopers also has to look at our 3 frost skills, they are all pretty much useless (except the -inc healing for PVP). Chilling Rhetoric, Flurry of Words and Essence of Winter needs some sort of debuffs that would improve the utility of the RK, like other dps classes. The combination of useful frost skills along with improved cash-out skills could make the dps rotation quite interesting.


    My idea would be something like this:

    Chilling Rhetoric =
    Permanent damage slow
    minor tactical mitigation debuff

    Flurry of Words =
    Healing buff when standing in the hotspot ( It's so much more useful compared to trying to get NPCs to stand in the hotspot).

    Essence of Winter =
    Incoming healing debuff
    minor lightning/fire mitigation/attack duration debuff (depending if you trait yellow,red, or blue).

    All the above would help RK's utility, you could even nerf DNF when the utility of the RK is sorted out.


    Armor of elements also needs a major boost to its morale bubble.
    Last edited by BlitzKr1eg; Feb 15 2021 at 08:26 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzKr1eg View Post
    This is pretty much how I'd sort out the RK.

    - Reduce CD of CA to 0 sec, it should be our auto-attack, maybe also slightly reduce dmg.
    - Big damage boost for Scribe Spark
    - Decrease Writ of lightning damage (so you only apply this in order to keep it tiered, not for the damage).
    - Big damage boost for Shocking Words (maybe even increased crit chance)
    - Big damage boost for EC (maybe even increased crit chance)
    - Slightly increase AOE radius of Static Surge

    I got no ideas for what to do with Concession and Rebuttal tho...

    However my changes are pretty much, increase damage of cash-out skills and Scribe Spark, give us back our "auto-attack" and make RK's use Writ of lightning as an actual debuff instead as a part of the dps rotation like it is now. So the idea would be to first build up attunement, and then cash-out immediately, alternating between Shocking Words and EC, at the same time you also gotta keep T3 WoL.

    Even thought the actual numbers of the damage increases/decreases would have to be tested.
    The problem surrounding RK is a little more complex than this, ultimately you are completely punished in every way for spending attunement, as a further aspect by spending attunement you lose +9% crit chance and +27% crit damage, yes it's quick enough to build back up, but is it worth the loss in the first place. This is what we're seeing now (or rather were seeing) with Closing Remarks, losing both thunderous words and harsh debate for a possibly small damage bonus where they could be kept up indefinitely instead by just not traiting it.

    My suggestions for Yellow would be thus;

    The -% mitigation debuff for Writ of Lightning should just be changed to a -% tactical mitigation; RKs are basically the only class (if we discount the odd LM skill) that regularly uses or only uses lightning-based skills in its rotation, this would also universally buff Hunters again as well as Warden light damage, which would be an integral first step to ensuring an RKs position within group content. The debuff duration should also be increased to 30s so you aren't wasting so many C&R stacks on keeping the debuff up (or that the debuff duration if used with a C&R stack is longer).

    Concession and Rebuttal has by far the longest cooldown of any DPS classes "cooldown" skills by at least a minute. It's cooldown is completely disproportionate to the buffs it gives. Without C&R, Epic Conclusion has absolutely no place, it just isn't worth using at all, but is this a failing in Epic Conclusion or is this C&R making it too powerful? Should we only be using EC when we have C&R or should we freely be able to use it whenever we have Closing Remarks? Difficult to say. As it stands currently, C&R needs to have at least 60 seconds cut off it's cooldown length, I would even go so far as to say 90 seconds to put it on par with almost all other cooldown skills.

    Epic Conclusion and Shocking Words, to begin with, as you've suggested both need a base damage boost, not critting with these skills just results in beyond poor damage. I've long had the idea that one should buff the other, so you can never get by, by just using one, as currently, Shocking Words is a dead skill in PvE (for the most part), an interesting mechanic could involve using Shocking Words will increase EC crit damage by 50% (consumed on next cast) and EC will increase Shocking Words crit damage by 50% (consumed on next cast), or something to that affect. The C&R buff for Shocking Words should also be completely changed to something moderately useful in raid environments (reducing the targets crit defence by 5, 10 or 15% comes to mind).

    Outside of that, Ceaseless Argument should have its cooldown lowered to 2s, to make the rotation flow much smoother, and I support your ideas of lowering Writ of Lightning damage and boosting SS, something also needs to be done in terms of the animation of SS aswell.

    Lastly, Static Surge, just make the dam skill targetable, that's all I ask.
    Last edited by Hephburz-2; Feb 15 2021 at 09:46 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    The problem surrounding RK is a little more complex than this, ultimately you are completely punished in every way for spending attunement, as a further aspect by spending attunement you lose +9% crit chance and +27% crit damage, yes it's quick enough to build back up, but is it worth the loss in the first place. This is what we're seeing now (or rather were seeing) with Closing Remarks, losing both thunderous words and harsh debate for a possibly small damage bonus where they could be kept up indefinitely instead by just not traiting it.

    My suggestions for Yellow would be thus;

    The -% mitigation debuff for Writ of Lightning should just be changed to a -% tactical mitigation; RKs are basically the only class (if we discount the odd LM skill) that regularly uses or only uses lightning-based skills in its rotation, this would also universally buff Hunters again as well as Warden light damage, which would be an integral first step to ensuring an RKs position within group content. The debuff duration should also be increased to 30s so you aren't wasting so many C&R stacks on keeping the debuff up (or that the debuff duration if used with a C&R stack is longer).

    Concession and Rebuttal has by far the longest cooldown of any DPS classes "cooldown" skills by at least a minute. It's cooldown is completely disproportionate to the buffs it gives. Without C&R, Epic Conclusion has absolutely no place, it just isn't worth using at all, but is this a failing in Epic Conclusion or is this C&R making it too powerful? Should we only be using EC when we have C&R or should we freely be able to use it whenever we have Closing Remarks? Difficult to say. As it stands currently, C&R needs to have at least 60 seconds cut off it's cooldown length, I would even go so far as to say 90 seconds to put it on par with almost all other cooldown skills.

    Epic Conclusion and Shocking Words, I've long had the idea that one should buff the other, so you can never get by, by just using one, as currently, Shocking Words is a dead skill in PvE (for the most part), an interesting mechanic could involve using Shocking Words will increase EC crit damage by 50% (consumed on next cast) and EC will increase Shocking Words crit damage by 50% (consumed on next cast), or something to that affect. The C&R buff for Shocking Words should also be completely changed to something moderately useful in raid environments (reducing the targets crit defence by 5, 10 or 15% comes to mind).

    Outside of that, Ceaseless Argument should have its cooldown lowered to 2s, to make the rotation flow much smoother, and I support your ideas of lowering Writ of Lightning damage and boosting SS, something also needs to be done in terms of the animation of SS aswell.

    Lastly, Static Surge, just make the dam skill targetable, that's all I ask.
    Yes, I'm well aware about the attunement cash-out issue, SSG seems to be determined to make the RK like a champion tho... Thus both EC and SW needs major buffs in order for it to be worth the cash-out, not sure if only damage boost are enough.

    Concession and Rebuttal is prob one of the worst designed skills in the entire game, it doesn't make any sense, especially not considering its huge cd. Imo it should be completely reworked...

    I agree about the SS animation, it should be fast just like the CA animation, I see SS as great filler, it should do much of more damage compared to Writh/CA, but not as much as cash-outs/EoS/SS.

    What would you do about the 3 forst skills and Armor of Elements?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzKr1eg View Post
    What would you do about the 3 forst skills and Armor of Elements?
    In my opinion, frost skills should be the offensive support that the Healing RK currently does not offer.

    I am fine with Flurry of Words being as it is (in it's base state), but I would argue it needs to cover a much wider area of effect, and its debuff should be reworked, something like +5% incoming critical chance and +5% incoming damage.

    Essence of Winter serves fine as an incoming healing debuff, although its strength should be increased, (By allowing the debuff to be kept up permanently whilst in combat (longer duration on the debuff) and making it tier up - tier 1 = -10% incoming healing, tier 2 = -20% incoming healing etc. up to 5 tiers and -50% incoming healing). Damage should also be increased and I don't believe this skill should be allowed to be resisted.

    Lastly, I'd like to see Chilling Rhetoric removed completely, and for us to have Frozen Epilogue back (blue line only) -



    Firstly, lowering the cooldown to 1minute, and reworking its debuffs/buffs to be the following; -10% tactical and physical mitigation for 15s and +10% damage boost for your fellowship for 15s.

    Armour of the Elements, for its cooldown, should be a 15% morale bubble.
    Last edited by Hephburz-2; Feb 15 2021 at 10:20 AM.

  8. #8
    Some really good ideas in this thread!
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK - Arkenstone
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler - Arkenstone
    Casithir - Rank 10 RK - Evernight

  9. #9
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    Meh... Nothing new for RKs on the 2nd BR update...

    Is that tiny EC-buff all there is? It won't change anything.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzKr1eg View Post
    Meh... Nothing new for RKs on the 2nd BR update...

    Is that tiny EC-buff all there is? It won't change anything.
    Agree So since it takes SSG years to update a class just give RKs a flat 15-20% damage boost across the board n done for now.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tullkas View Post
    Agree So since it takes SSG years to update a class just give RKs a flat 15-20% damage boost across the board n done for now.
    ...I just want Searing tier stacking back.
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

 

 

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