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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    46

    An Open Letter: The Erosion of Trust

    Dear SSG,

    I'm leaving.

    I feel like I've been here long enough, spent enough money, invested enough in you and your predecessors, to deserve a final few words.

    It isn't one thing. I'm not leaving because of the recent SOE changes, or the rep scroll changes, or any other one change in a long line of changes designed to make the life of a player worse.

    I'm leaving because I've lost all faith in you. I'm leaving because you've made it clear that I don't matter.

    There are 1,001 things I could list as to why I don't want to be here anymore. Class balance changes that haven't materialized, LI revamp that feels further away than ever, constantly abandoning systems that you waste time developing (skirmishes, missions, EBs, hobbies,War-Steeds, etc.) I could go on for days.


    I admit, it's partially my fault. I enabled you. I held on for far too long. Gave you too much slack. I was one of the fools that said, "Yeah, but now SSG has the license. It's all the old devs, everything is going to be great! They finally have the freedom to make the game we all wanted!"

    But it was the opposite, you monetized the game in a way that made everything worse.

    Top tier (ish) gear from lootboxes, Essence gear that needs 1 solvent, no 3 solvents, how long until 5, 10, 15, solvents to make? An LI system that you didn't fix, but made worse and more of a grind. (The opposite of what you said you'd do)

    You have consistently acted in bad faith. You refuse to communicate. You treat your players ( $Customers$) with contempt.

    You know what hurts?
    We Believed in you.

    We supported you.

    No longer.
    I'm done, and I suspect many like me are leaving.

    Cheers!

  2. #2
    So SSG, when you guys going to give out a statement? Cos evidently you basically had the whole playerbase turn on you.

    P.S. also good point for pointing out the solvents! I forgot about that cos it's pointless to craft them now due to the high solvent cost.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New Orleans, LA
    Posts
    609
    I'd ask if I could have your stuff, but I stopped playing about a month ago and I don't really miss it, sooo... *shrug*

    My VIP is up in mid-March, and at this point I can't possibly see myself renewing. All that goodwill generated by releasing content during the early stages of the pandemic was followed by:

    1.) Ummmm...our servers aren't working. Can't tell you when you'll be able to play again. Also, won't tell you why they're not working, what we're doing to fix them, and what we're going to do to prevent it from happening in the future.
    2.) Okay, servers are back up. Just kidding, they don't really work yet. Hang in there, loyal customers!
    3.) Okay, this time they're really working again. Sorry about all that 2 weeks of broken, here's something you could earn in 2 hours of playing to make up for it.
    4.) Hey, we've got some new content headed your way! We can't tell you anything about it, except how much we want you to pay for it.
    5.) It's not the content we said we were going to put out...it's like the first 10% of that. But we'd still like some money for it. Yes, even if you already give us money for your subscription.
    6.) Remember that LI grind we've recognized as a problem and told you over 2 years ago we'd work to fix? We decided instead to make it take even longer and involve more grind to encourage you fine folks to just go ahead and buy those SoE's in the store.
    7.) Wow, #6 really made a lot of players upset. Let's not admit that the whole thing was a terrible idea, let's just make it a tiny bit less awful, and it will look like we listened and care. Right?!

    Wrong.
    "Not all those who wander are lost." -Tolkien
    "No matter where you go, there you are." -Confucius

  4. #4
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    Jun 2011
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    437
    You know in the past I would be the person who would make light of the OP and the "I'm leaving" posts

    BUT

    I have exactly the the opposite sentiment now.... SSG have killed this game stone dead....

    As I have just written in another of the dozens of threads similar.... Where is the producer? WHERE IS HE? or if he isn't around currently... where is his standin?

    There is is absolutely no excuse for us being ignored.....

    Good luck in your future endeavours my Lotro friends..... It was good in the beginning... it got better all the way to Mirkwood and then started to slowly stutter... to the now complete farce that we see here today.

  5. #5
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    UK
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    Wonderfully expressed. Try and keep a hold of the good memories and move on from the bad, I know it's easier said than done!

    I hope you, like all of us, can find some new game or endeavour to fill the hole where LOTRO used to be

  6. #6
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    Jul 2009
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    For me, Helms Deep to Dol Amroth was the highpoint of the game. I know this is not a popular opinion, but it was the most solo-friendly that also had group content. Yes, I like epic battles. That was the sort of group content I preferred, though I also did well in all of the Gondor 3 and 6 mans. Why? Because it was possible without crafting essences with rare or store items.

    For me WB and Kate Paiz were the best gamerunners. Again, I know all you leet raiderzzzz disagree and are terribly triggered at hearing the name. But Pelargir is still run every day. Why? Because it's something everyone can do together. Not just the 1 percent.

  7. #7
    I am premium. It doesn't cost me anything but my time at this point. I'm not happy with the new release, I've made that clear. I'm standing by my choice not to contribute another red cent until some revamps are done.

    In support of SSG/LOTRO, I did purchase Minas Morgul, and just recently right before they announced the most recent changes, Battle of the three peaks.

    After they announced the update changes I was curious as to where I could find the SOE Dailies in BOTP.

    So I asked an allegiance member where the SOE dailies are in Three peaks, his reply was "have you finished all the quests there yet?" Of course I haven't, I just started a few weeks ago but needless to say I was a little disappointed to know that I have to play through the entire content, to unlock the SOE Dailies, apparently its not rep tied like MT was/is.

    Can anyone confirm this?

    Anyways, my first impression of BOTP (having completed the first tier of missions). The upside with missions is I can log in run three missions and log out in record time, the downside most of the missions I have completed are just old locales with new monsters put into place. They seemed to have cut corners on development here for whatever reason or streamlined it in this way to make deadlines. The part that is missing and what makes LOTRO great IMO is the exploration of the game world. So far SSG seems to have failed in continuing the adventure, with regards to BOTP.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jx9nFWrrco View Post
    I am premium. It doesn't cost me anything but my time at this point. I'm not happy with the new release, I've made that clear. I'm standing by my choice not to contribute another red cent until some revamps are done.

    In support of SSG/LOTRO, I did purchase Minas Morgul, and just recently right before they announced the most recent changes, Battle of the three peaks.

    After they announced the update changes I was curious as to where I could find the SOE Dailies in BOTP.

    So I asked an allegiance member where the SOE dailies are in Three peaks, his reply was "have you finished all the quests there yet?" Of course I haven't, I just started a few weeks ago but needless to say I was a little disappointed to know that I have to play through the entire content, to unlock the SOE Dailies, apparently its not rep tied like MT was/is.

    Can anyone confirm this?

    Anyways, my first impression of BOTP (having completed the first tier of missions). The upside with missions is I can log in run three missions and log out in record time, the downside most of the missions I have completed are just old locales with new monsters put into place. They seemed to have cut corners on development here for whatever reason or streamlined it in this way to make deadlines. The part that is missing and what makes LOTRO great IMO is the exploration of the game world. So far SSG seems to have failed in continuing the adventure, with regards to BOTP.
    The mission weekly gives you some scrolls, I think 3 or 1 crystal, your choice. You can also buy them for motes/embers which you get for missions. For the other dailies you have to finish the whole story and after that you can slog your way through mobs to finish them. I find these very stressful and only done them a few times.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    43
    Quote Originally Posted by Goonerholic View Post
    Dear SSG,

    I'm leaving.

    I feel like I've been here long enough, spent enough money, invested enough in you and your predecessors, to deserve a final few words.

    It isn't one thing. I'm not leaving because of the recent SOE changes, or the rep scroll changes, or any other one change in a long line of changes designed to make the life of a player worse.

    I'm leaving because I've lost all faith in you. I'm leaving because you've made it clear that I don't matter.

    There are 1,001 things I could list as to why I don't want to be here anymore. Class balance changes that haven't materialized, LI revamp that feels further away than ever, constantly abandoning systems that you waste time developing (skirmishes, missions, EBs, hobbies,War-Steeds, etc.) I could go on for days.


    I admit, it's partially my fault. I enabled you. I held on for far too long. Gave you too much slack. I was one of the fools that said, "Yeah, but now SSG has the license. It's all the old devs, everything is going to be great! They finally have the freedom to make the game we all wanted!"

    But it was the opposite, you monetized the game in a way that made everything worse.

    Top tier (ish) gear from lootboxes, Essence gear that needs 1 solvent, no 3 solvents, how long until 5, 10, 15, solvents to make? An LI system that you didn't fix, but made worse and more of a grind. (The opposite of what you said you'd do)

    You have consistently acted in bad faith. You refuse to communicate. You treat your players ( $Customers$) with contempt.

    You know what hurts?
    We Believed in you.

    We supported you.

    No longer.
    I'm done, and I suspect many like me are leaving.

    Cheers!
    45 posts since 2009, sorry nobody knows who you are and most likely nobody cares either

    Quote Originally Posted by ElanorFb View Post
    For me, Helms Deep to Dol Amroth was the highpoint of the game. I know this is not a popular opinion, but it was the most solo-friendly that also had group content. Yes, I like epic battles. That was the sort of group content I preferred, though I also did well in all of the Gondor 3 and 6 mans. Why? Because it was possible without crafting essences with rare or store items.


    For me WB and Kate Paiz were the best gamerunners. Again, I know all you leet raiderzzzz disagree and are terribly triggered at hearing the name. But Pelargir is still run every day. Why? Because it's something everyone can do together. Not just the 1 percent.
    this post takes the cake tho, lol just lol. my man said PELARGIR is the greatest of all time.... im ded

  10. #10
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    Aug 2013
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    232
    Quote Originally Posted by ElanorFb View Post
    For me, Helms Deep to Dol Amroth was the highpoint of the game. I know this is not a popular opinion, but it was the most solo-friendly that also had group content. Yes, I like epic battles. That was the sort of group content I preferred, though I also did well in all of the Gondor 3 and 6 mans. Why? Because it was possible without crafting essences with rare or store items.

    For me WB and Kate Paiz were the best gamerunners. Again, I know all you leet raiderzzzz disagree and are terribly triggered at hearing the name. But Pelargir is still run every day. Why? Because it's something everyone can do together. Not just the 1 percent.
    Why do people do Mt dailies, dA dailies, FI dailies. Same reason as pelagir, because people have absolutely no idea on how to gear efficiently. Pelagir and all the BBs were not good group content. You literally afked for 30 mins and then got a reward at the end. Why not sit at prancing pony afk because its the same level of difficulty and engagement. There is only one reason to run BBs now and that is the busted set gear for some classes that still is worth.

    If you liked that era of the game due to the solo play, more power to you but it was not due to its good group content lol.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aganor2002 View Post
    45 posts since 2009, sorry nobody knows who you are and most likely nobody cares either

    I care. I care a lot.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    1,904
    I think it is childish to try to frame all of the ways that SSG has failed to meet your expectations as a "betrayal". They would like nothing more than to please their customers (and reap the resulting rewards), but as a private company they have to make difficult choices, and often they make the wrong ones; that often puts them in a worse financial position than before, which forces more difficult decisions (rinse and repeat). You can curse their stupidity and incompetence, but to say they have acted "in bad faith" and treated you with contempt because you "don't matter" is not supported by evidence.

  13. #13
    Just give up the 120-130 grind, come to Legendary servers and enjoy the days of 1 and 2 solvents, and fun questing for an additional year or so before we also reach the pointless grind, lol.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    I think it is childish to try to frame all of the ways that SSG has failed to meet your expectations as a "betrayal". They would like nothing more than to please their customers (and reap the resulting rewards), but as a private company they have to make difficult choices, and often they make the wrong ones; that often puts them in a worse financial position than before, which forces more difficult decisions (rinse and repeat). You can curse their stupidity and incompetence, but to say they have acted "in bad faith" and treated you with contempt because you "don't matter" is not supported by evidence.
    I mean it is supported by evidence because they employee more and more p2w schemes every year and drive more and more of the player base away. Like idk what else you want? A letter from ssg in the mail saying they do not care and you better cough up $20 for some solvents?
    Adapting R12 Reaver, Warleader r9 Warleader on Ark Everlastingyawn r9 Defiler Landy Backpedal r9 Warg Brandy
    Arantoth R10 Champion on Ark Elezmera-3 R11 Ministrel on Ark
    Officer of Prime Evil

  15. #15

    A sad day

    This is the straw that broke the camels back........

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    I think it is childish to try to frame all of the ways that SSG has failed to meet your expectations as a "betrayal". They would like nothing more than to please their customers (and reap the resulting rewards), but as a private company they have to make difficult choices, and often they make the wrong ones; that often puts them in a worse financial position than before, which forces more difficult decisions (rinse and repeat). You can curse their stupidity and incompetence, but to say they have acted "in bad faith" and treated you with contempt because you "don't matter" is not supported by evidence.
    +1000

    The more intense the rage-quit post, the more fiddly the complaint.

    You can just grouse without all the histrionics. Play, or don't play. Pay or don't pay. Complain in the forums about things you think are wrong.

    No ultimatum or rage-quit post in these forums is going to make things change by itself because forum posters are just the loudest part of the player base, not the most representative.
    On Crickhollow: Wenslydale (Hobbit Burglar), Leolwyn (Woman Hunter)
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    I think it is childish to try to frame all of the ways that SSG has failed to meet your expectations as a "betrayal". They would like nothing more than to please their customers (and reap the resulting rewards), but as a private company they have to make difficult choices, and often they make the wrong ones; that often puts them in a worse financial position than before, which forces more difficult decisions (rinse and repeat). You can curse their stupidity and incompetence, but to say they have acted "in bad faith" and treated you with contempt because you "don't matter" is not supported by evidence.
    I never once said anything about "betrayal" so I'm not really sure why you're quoting that, but you do you.

    Yes, I am saying they have acted "in bad faith" and I'm happy to give you a few reasons why.

    Solvents.

    We used to need 1 solvent to !attempt! to make 1 essence. That's sorta fine, all crafting needs bit components. Except solvents aren't really attainable in-game are they? Sure they drop, at ludicrously low rates. A new update brought new essences, now they need 3 solvents. No one, has ever, hit solvent drop rates to be able to hit these marks without using the store.

    I call that bad faith.

    Do you remember, years ago, when skirmishes first came out? They had all sorts of different skirmish currency, campaign medallions and the like? We had so much nonsense cluttering up our bags that eventually they realized how stupid it was, and consolidated it all. Marks, Medallions, Seals.

    That's good faith.

    Do you remember their reasoning?
    It was to make everything easier, so that when a new update came out, people wouldn't have to be bogged down with unnecessary currency, and all the rewards could be streamlined.

    I'll ask you to re-read the last sentence, I shouldn't have to point out the hilarity.
    Currency caps. Bad Faith. You should never be punished for playing the game too much.

    Years and years and years of people complaining about how cumbersome the LI game is.
    The response," We get it, we are working on it, it will get better."
    The result: Even more complexity, fewer rewards, more grind.

    Bad Faith.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundertrain View Post
    All that goodwill generated by releasing content during the early stages of the pandemic was followed by:

    1.) Ummmm...our servers aren't working. Can't tell you when you'll be able to play again. Also, won't tell you why they're not working, what we're doing to fix them, and what we're going to do to prevent it from happening in the future.
    2.) Okay, servers are back up. Just kidding, they don't really work yet. Hang in there, loyal customers!
    3.) Okay, this time they're really working again. Sorry about all that 2 weeks of broken, here's something you could earn in 2 hours of playing to make up for it.
    4.) Hey, we've got some new content headed your way! We can't tell you anything about it, except how much we want you to pay for it.
    5.) It's not the content we said we were going to put out...it's like the first 10% of that. But we'd still like some money for it. Yes, even if you already give us money for your subscription.
    6.) Remember that LI grind we've recognized as a problem and told you over 2 years ago we'd work to fix? We decided instead to make it take even longer and involve more grind to encourage you fine folks to just go ahead and buy those SoE's in the store.
    7.) Wow, #6 really made a lot of players upset. Let's not admit that the whole thing was a terrible idea, let's just make it a tiny bit less awful, and it will look like we listened and care. Right?!

    Wrong.
    This is the best summary I've seen of the last 6 months.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Goonerholic View Post
    Years and years and years of people complaining about how cumbersome the LI game is.
    The response," We get it, we are working on it, it will get better."
    The result: Even more complexity, fewer rewards, more grind.

    Bad Faith.
    Exactly right. And today was another example. Watched the Cord of the Rings live stream. He basically read portions of the Release Notes for 28.3 out loud, made a couple vague statements about "we had our reasons for doing this and we're going to be adjusting these things in the future", and then said that because it was such a heated and controversial issue, we weren't going to talk about it anymore during the Stream.

    And after everything that's happened this week...that was it!!? No explanation? No specifics? No response to the countless players who had questions about why SSG chose to make the LI grind so much worse? (many of whom were trying to ask this very question during the stream!). He admitted at the beginning that the Devs knew before implementing 28.3 that it was going to be "very unpopular". And yet they went ahead and did it anyway, and are now silent on why they made the horrible changes they did.

    "Bad Faith" indeed.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goonerholic View Post
    I never once said anything about "betrayal" so I'm not really sure why you're quoting that, but you do you.
    I never attributed that quote to you specifically (this isn't the first ragequit thread), but you do you.

    Yes, I am saying they have acted "in bad faith" and I'm happy to give you a few reasons why.

    Solvents.

    We used to need 1 solvent to !attempt! to make 1 essence. That's sorta fine, all crafting needs bit components. Except solvents aren't really attainable in-game are they? Sure they drop, at ludicrously low rates. A new update brought new essences, now they need 3 solvents. No one, has ever, hit solvent drop rates to be able to hit these marks without using the store.

    I call that bad faith.
    I call it a difficult financial decision, which was made necessary by poor decisions in the past. I call it sacrificing the integrity of the game (making it more pay-to-win), gambling that the revenue lost by people ragequitting will be less than the revenue gained from more LOTRO store sales.

    But I don't call it "bad faith". They have never said they would rule out all "pay-to-win" aspects of the game. Since technically you could subject yourself to the RNG and grind for solvents (or grind for gold and buy solvents in the AH), they can say you aren't "paying to win" -- only "paying to avoid grind", which is a well-established philosophy that has been in effect for as long as the LOTRO store has existed.

    Do you remember, years ago, when skirmishes first came out? They had all sorts of different skirmish currency, campaign medallions and the like? We had so much nonsense cluttering up our bags that eventually they realized how stupid it was, and consolidated it all. Marks, Medallions, Seals.

    That's good faith.

    Do you remember their reasoning?
    It was to make everything easier, so that when a new update came out, people wouldn't have to be bogged down with unnecessary currency, and all the rewards could be streamlined.

    I'll ask you to re-read the last sentence, I shouldn't have to point out the hilarity.
    Currency caps. Bad Faith. You should never be punished for playing the game too much.
    I don't follow. AFAIK, there aren't any caps on marks/medallions/seals. If there are caps, they are so high as to be irrelevant for the vast majority of users.

    Edit: (After rereading) I guess you are referring to currency caps for later currencies. I hate them too, but I understand their rationale. You say "you should never be punished for playing the game too much", but on the other side of that coin, you should never be punished for not playing the game for 80 hours a week. At least with the caps, you can avoid "punishment" by simply logging out.

    There are plenty of arguments for why currency caps are a bad idea, but that is not sufficient to qualify them as "bad faith". People can, with good faith and the best of intentions, formulate and implement bad ideas.

    Years and years and years of people complaining about how cumbersome the LI game is.
    The response," We get it, we are working on it, it will get better."
    The result: Even more complexity, fewer rewards, more grind.

    Bad Faith.
    Childish over-simplification. There are clearly multiple priorities involved (in particular, driving people to buy new content instead of grinding MT forever). There's no way you can know they aren't working on an LI revamp. "Bad faith" entails dishonesty.
    Last edited by Thurallor; Jan 22 2021 at 04:27 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wargoat View Post
    Just give up the 120-130 grind, come to Legendary servers and enjoy the days of 1 and 2 solvents, and fun questing for an additional year or so before we also reach the pointless grind, lol.
    Yeah, gotta get those those supreme essences that are 8 stat higher than the major kekw.

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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundertrain View Post

    1.) Ummmm...our servers aren't working. Can't tell you when you'll be able to play again. Also, won't tell you why they're not working, what we're doing to fix them, and what we're going to do to prevent it from happening in the future.
    2.) Okay, servers are back up. Just kidding, they don't really work yet. Hang in there, loyal customers!
    3.) Okay, this time they're really working again. Sorry about all that 2 weeks of broken, here's something you could earn in 2 hours of playing to make up for it.
    4.) Hey, we've got some new content headed your way! We can't tell you anything about it, except how much we want you to pay for it.
    5.) It's not the content we said we were going to put out...it's like the first 10% of that. But we'd still like some money for it. Yes, even if you already give us money for your subscription.
    6.) Remember that LI grind we've recognized as a problem and told you over 2 years ago we'd work to fix? We decided instead to make it take even longer and involve more grind to encourage you fine folks to just go ahead and buy those SoE's in the store.
    7.) Wow, #6 really made a lot of players upset. Let's not admit that the whole thing was a terrible idea, let's just make it a tiny bit less awful, and it will look like we listened and care. Right?!

    Wrong.


    Brilliant summary. Smh as I read it because it's all accurate.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aganor2002 View Post
    45 posts since 2009, sorry nobody knows who you are and most likely nobody cares either

    ...
    Clearly the OP is one of those folks y'all liked to point to as being "the vast majority who are happy playing the game, not spending their time moaning in the forums".

    Then when they come here to voice a well-thought-out, polite complaint when they've reached their limit, it's "nobody cares, nobody knows who you are".

    “All that is gold does not glitter,
    Not all those who wander are lost;
    The old that is strong does not wither,
    Deep roots are not reached by the frost."

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mithelenthor View Post
    You know in the past I would be the person who would make light of the OP and the "I'm leaving" posts

    BUT

    I have exactly the the opposite sentiment now.... SSG have killed this game stone dead....

    As I have just written in another of the dozens of threads similar.... Where is the producer? WHERE IS HE? or if he isn't around currently... where is his standin?

    There is is absolutely no excuse for us being ignored.....

    Good luck in your future endeavours my Lotro friends..... It was good in the beginning... it got better all the way to Mirkwood and then started to slowly stutter... to the now complete farce that we see here today.
    This is exactly where I'm at to.

    There's just no way I'm putting any money into this game without a lot to convince me the future will be better. I'll keep poking at Middle-earth, because it's good. The devs did great creating it even while SSG is ruining the game and business side of it. But I'm not going to encourage anyone to spend anything, because this business model is TERMINAL.

    I was relieved when the sale happened, because it suddenly made all the crummy business and design decisions of the past make sense in retrospect. Shady Daybreak had been calling the shots all along and they were desperate to pump up profit margin for a sale. That made sense (it was awful, but it was an explanation) and it made sense that those practices would stop because SURLY the new buyer didn't buy for the sake of letting their biggest IP license rot!

    And everything being quiet since the sale made sense too. It's gonna take time before the new owners solidify and implement a plan. I don't expect anything til 2nd Quarter.

    But instead things have gotten somehow worse.
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    I care. I care a lot.
    As do I.

    This whole SOE mess makes me so sad. I had just come back after a two year break and was EXCITED to get back into the game, valar'd my Mini on Legendary, caught my crafting up on 10 alts - and then this happens.... I'm quitting before I can even get to the fun stuff. The grind in this game was the reason I quit the first time...now it's even worse. I will never be back.
    Gaii (105 RK) / Shokti (105 Minstrel) / Cybele (105 LM)

 

 
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