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  1. #1

    Nice tactic, sorry but I won't fall for it - Let me try to fix your game (Long post)

    It was a nice attempt of tactic, publish a really terrible nightmarish update notice that you were completely sure that would make everyone angry just so later you can announce the "real update" and that is going to look good. But I think you also tried with the terrible update first just in case there will be people who defend it, sadly this time even your customer target (endgame players that always spend money no matter what) has turned against you. Now, with the "real update", everyone is thanking you. For those people, all I can say is, what would have been your reaction if the "real update" had been showed first? Anyway.

    For a little context, I enjoy developing games for pleasure and maybe I'm a dreamer but I'd love to have a big game in the future, so I take stuff like this as learning. So, let me try to fix your game.

    Disclaimer: absolutely everything written in this post is meant to be taken with educative purposes. I do not expect absolutely anything written here to be ever applied to this game.

    That being said, let me start. Probably I'll forget many things, but anyway. I'll divide the fixes in some categories.

    CURRENT SITUATION

    - For me, it's clear that the target of SSG are endgame players that will always buy content with real money / sub no matter what, even if they make questpacks to be miniexpansions or they remove value to VIP
    - Also for me, it's clear that SSG doesn't care of new players or even "middle" players (this is, players that might be playing for some months or even some years but they are not on endgame nor are largely stablished)
    - SSG punishes alts, maybe because alt = free LPs? It is really painful to have alts with all the grinds and locks, and alts on endgame is total nightmare. The only usefulness of alts at endgame is that you can do weeklies more times so you can gear main character faster
    - Old content is made obsolete, and not just that, even current-cap content that is not last expansion is made obsolete - sometimes even from the beginning (anyone to run Filth Well T3 or Bar Nirnaeth T3? No? Okay). This is really problematic and I fail to understand why you don't see it. Now you made old content even more obsolete with the empowerment locks

    THE PROBLEMATIC OF LOCKS / BIND TO ACCOUNT / BIND TO CHARACTER

    - The only players that are not affected by locks are long stablished players that play endgame and might have alts also at endgame - aka, your target, so this is fine for you (lol)
    - Making empowerments/reputation boosts/other stuff bound to account, you kill player trade. This has nasty consequences for the community
    ----- New players can't be helped, the gap between new players and endgame players is too big, and new players will feel discouraged
    ----- When endgame players finish capping their things, if they earn more empowerments, what are they going to do? There are 3 possible choices - store them, give them away, or stop playing content. Personally, I'd love to continue playing content and just giveaway stuff that I don't need, if by doing this I could help people, but you don't let me do this
    ----- Price inflation, empowerments in Seregost times cost 15g, crystals 30g and remembrances were given for free - compare this with current situation, and also compare it with post-update situation (lol)
    ----- Reputation tomes being bound also makes it worse for new-medium players, because these players won't earn many marks since they most likely don't run many instances and if they do, these won't reward many marks, and there are factions that if you run them without boosts, it's a painful grind (Gondor specially), so again, you are punishing these players (I know you don't care, don't worry). If reputation tomes are not bound, they could purchase for gold or people could just gift to them
    ----- Other caps like currencies etc are useless because it discourages playing, and it feels bad when you lose currency because cap, and also, the constant tension of being pending to the cap just because your pleasure is too much annoying

    FIXING LEGENDARY ITEM SYSTEM

    - Create 3 kinds of empowerment: lesser scroll of empowerment, scroll of empowerment, superior scroll of empowerment
    - Lesser scroll of empowerment: must work in all LIs pre-lvl100. You should obtain this empowerment in every single quartermaster barterer from Moria to West Rohan for a decent price (it is your task to balance time-effort-reward), and also in every instance from levels 50-99 (later I'll talk about instance revamp)
    - Scroll of empowerment: must work in all LIs, both pre-lvl100 and lvl100, and imbued, and it will work to unlock all tiers of the legacies except the last 5. You should obtain this empowerment in every single quartermaster barterer from Gondor to the next pre-level cap area (currently now, until Vales of Anduin), and also in every OLD INSTANCE from levels 100-levelcap (change cap in the future). Again, it's your task to balance time-effort-reward.
    - Superior scroll of empowerment: must work for everything, including last 5 tiers of imbued legacies. You should obtain this empowerment in every single quartermaster barterer of level-cap areas (currently, in Minas Morgul, Limlok and Elderslade - level 130), and also in every LVLCAP INSTANCE from levels 121-130 (based on current situation).
    - Do some rework on legacies that need work, transfer some legacies etc, whatever you/playerbase consider
    - None of these empowerments should be bound
    - Use same system for crystals
    - Some reasons to do this:
    ----- This will give players choice about where to farm, and the more areas they buy, the more they can farm, so it can turn into profit for you because people will want to buy areas
    ----- They should be freely tradeable, because already stated problematics with bound items
    ----- LI grind will most likely dissappear because players will run areas as normal and later buy scrolls with region tokens
    - Fix the apply of empowerments, it's ridicoulus to have to put each one by one, if you have a stack of 10, or 5, or 2, etc, then just right click, select legacy, and a window with arrows for quantity should appear just like when crafting, then you select the amount of empowerments that you want to apply to that legacy, and done
    - Quick clarification about instance drops with examples, to avoid confusions (based on current level cap of 130):
    ----- Running Barrowdowns 130 T1 will reward: 1 normal scroll of empowerment, x motes, piece of gear equivalent to quest 130 gear
    ----- Running Harrowing 130 T1 will reward: 1 superior scroll of empowerment, x embers, piece of gear equivalent to instance 130 gear

    INSTANCE REVAMP

    - Killing old content is your mastery, let me try to fix this
    - As I said before, every instance in the game should have empowerment rewards, but not only this, they should also reward motes/embers and gear
    ----- Every instance should reward guaranteed empowerments (freely tradeable), with chance for crystals (high chance, I'd say 30% chance per chest)
    ----- Every instance should reward motes (under cap) or embers (cap)
    ----- Every instance should reward gear, and for non-current content instances, the gear should be equivalent to quest gear of the current content. This way, if people want to level up and gear using old instances for x reason, they can at least get some basic gear, as I say, equivalent to quest gear of current content
    - Some attempt to balance time-effort-reward - You should know that easier content will be run often, and hard content not that often, so, to make hard content relevant and desirable, you should increase the rewards. I'm just going to put an example about how to do some quick balance using the Minas Morgul instances. All these rewards, empos and embers/motes, are guaranteed. Note: in level cap instances, the empos should be "superior empowerment scrolls"
    ----- Harrowing and Roost are the easiest instances, 3man, these should reward 1 empo at t1, 2 empos at t2, 3 empos at t3
    ----- Filth Well and Gorthad Nur are harder, 3man, these should reward 2 empos at t1, 3 empos at t2, 4 empos at t3
    ----- Black Lore, relatively easy 6man, this should reward 3 empos at t1, 4 at t2, 5 at t3
    ----- Bar Nirnaeth, hard 6man, this should reward 4 empos at t1, 5 at t2, 6 at t3
    ----- Remmorchant, this is raid so it works a bit different because ideally people should have the LIs maxed for this, so not sure how to balance this to make it competitive against the other instances. I think this should reward empowerments per chest, but I'm not sure about the amount, maybe 2 empowerments per chest sounds fine, but not sure
    - About old instances at level cap, apply this same system, but old instances at level cap will give "empowerment scrolls", the ones that are used for all except last 5 tiers. Again, balance properly, time-effort-reward, because this is the main problem of the featured instances, people only run School because it's super easy, and the other times, almost nobody run it
    - Advantages of making all the content relevant, even old, is that you will earn more profit not only from people buying areas, but also there will be more population of players and the game will feel more alive

    A QUICK NOTE ABOUT EXPANSIONS ON RELEASE ONLY FOR REAL MONEY

    - Fair enough, new expansions can be purchased only with real money, except there is 1 problem - people who purchase points with real money
    - A solution for this, it's to create a new currency called "premium lotro points", this is a different pool of points that you can only adquire with real money
    - Normal lotro points: earned in game
    - Premium lotro points: purchased with real money
    - Make expansions purchasable on release for "premium lotro points", and then some months later, for "normal lotro points"

    I'm already getting tired of writing so I'll just add that changes like this will attract more people to the game, it will also make the community to be more helpful with each other, creating a very good and friendly environment, and people would be very happy to support the game.

    I'd complain about the current situation for a bit more but I'm tired and I already spent too much time writing here so I hope you enjoy the reading, and don't forget that this will never happen
    Last edited by Fegefeuer; Jan 14 2021 at 08:22 AM.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  2. #2
    Where do I sign up to play your game? I think I'd enjoy it more

    With regard to your last point, I bought a large LP bundle in anticipation of buying mordor. When it wasn't available at launch I refused to buy it for cash. In my view I had already spent the cash. I no longer buy bundles in anticipation of anything. I'll wait for something to be released and decide how I want to spend my money. My last cash purchase was Minas Morgul standard ed. My next *might* be Gundabad...but I'll wait and see what it actually has when it is released.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    - Fix the apply of empowerments, it's ridicoulus to have to put each one by one, if you have a stack of 10, or 5, or 2, etc, then just right click, select legacy, and a window with arrows for quantity should appear just like when crafting, then you select the amount of empowerments that you want to apply to that legacy, and done
    Truth has been spoken: We really need this and ASAP - my hands are literally killing me, adding over 200 scrolls per LI ...... one by one.
    Whole topic is well written, I have some different views, but overall +.

    Cheers Sealaxe

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLotroFan View Post
    Where do I sign up to play your game? I think I'd enjoy it more

    With regard to your last point, I bought a large LP bundle in anticipation of buying mordor. When it wasn't available at launch I refused to buy it for cash. In my view I had already spent the cash. I no longer buy bundles in anticipation of anything. I'll wait for something to be released and decide how I want to spend my money. My last cash purchase was Minas Morgul standard ed. My next *might* be Gundabad...but I'll wait and see what it actually has when it is released.
    Yeah, I think SSG is treating lotro as a business, not a game. It doesn't mean that the game is not a business. But we are not in lotro because it's a business... we are because it's a game. And the more they push people to buy stuff, the less people will buy. And people who didn't buy in the past, won't buy anyway. For example, who was going to buy reputation boosts from store if rep tomes are capped at lvl100? I won't. I'd rather leave the game. I have never bought rep accelerators from store, so I won't no matter what, and even more reasons to don't do it if they force me. I think this is basic knowledge but anyway.

    Small edit: even if business, the way they are acting is bad business. If I want to run a business, I wouldn't try to force people to buy stuff - I would ENCOURAGE. How do you encourage? making people to be happy. SSG, I spent money when you released the free code, even if this free code only gave me the unlocking of Wilderland. I spent because I felt very happy that you are doing that. Make people happy, create a friendly environment, where players help each other, and we will gladly give you money. Make the game to be more worth, not just because it's Lord of the Rings, because right now, this is the only reason it survives. If the community is friendly and wonderful, people will support the game so it won't die. But you are just making the community to be useless because all the locks/caps/binds/grinds/gaps/etc. Anyway.

    My plan is to get Minipeaks for LP (farmed ofc) and run the content when level cap is raised to 135 with Gundabad. I'll level 130-135 in Minipeaks. First time I'm doing this in like 9 years, and the only reason I'm doing this is because their constant forcing to buy it.
    Last edited by Fegefeuer; Jan 14 2021 at 08:05 AM.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarsong View Post
    Truth has been spoken: We really need this and ASAP - my hands are literally killing me, adding over 200 scrolls per LI ...... one by one.
    Whole topic is well written, I have some different views, but overall +.

    Cheers Sealaxe
    Yes, I dread everytime I head to Bree fountain to get empos for motes. Today I spent almost 8k motes on empowerments, and I felt so much lazy to add them one by one. In fact, I prefer to go there when I'm close to motes cap just because it feels like if I add them once every some weeks, it doesn't seem as painful...
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    - Normal lotro points: earned in game
    - Premium lotro points: purchased with real money
    - Make expansions purchasable on release for "premium lotro points", and then some months later, for "normal lotro points"
    And make it such that stuff bought using those premium LOTRO points has realistic prices.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Thx first of all for laying all of this out.

    I do agree to the points about locks/bind to account/bind to character and to the solutions for LIs. However the isntance revamp does not sound like a doable solution for me.
    Lett me quickly explain why:

    As you have said it yourself, easy content does always attract more players than hard content. This is a streight problem for the level based solution of Scroll/embers drops. If I say, every single instance ad level 130 does drop guaranteed scrolls, just hard runs drop "more" scrolls, I will actually make it so easy for everyone to get the ur superior scrolls, that I would not need to purchase endgame. Unless you want to say that scalable instances like Barrowdowns should even at level 130 still drop "normal" empowerment scrolls. And if I take the nummer suggestions you lay out here, I basically have my characters done on scrolls/crystals, before the raid even has been released (remember, quite often the raids are beeing released with a slight delay). That would result in players being able to streight up finish the raids just shortly after the release, which than again would make the cap players streight up post in Forum again, that it takes too long for SSG to drop new content.
    Make no mistake, I am no fan of slow grinding, but the main reason we are beeing slowed down is still, so that the devs do have time to create new content, before every player has finished endgame with all their alts.

    So lets say you would "just" award normal scrolls on old level cap instances and not embers, but motes, than I could completly agree to the suggestion. Now lets have a look at the Adventure gear traiders and say those have an embers gear set and a motes gear set, which both scale. The motes gear set is only as good as regional landscape drops or cheap crafted gear (remember, there was a time we actually had that). This would allow players that can not effort the endgame right now, or do not like it, to get an armour to run old instances on T1 cap and get armour drops there on an equal level. Those players will than not finishi the heavy challenges and Tier 2, but at least they are read to progress when the game continues and they can keep alts up, without making the endgame area loose any worth. Now the endgame areas, so right now Morgul Vales and Three peaks, drop embers on level cap runs or armour that still can be ashed to embers. The embers gear from the adventurer boxes would allow Tier 2 and 3 runs, as it does right now. This way there is a difference between end game and old content, but all content is still worth running, specifically if you are just not capable right now of purchasing the latest area.

    Now nerv the drops on the scroll amounts a little, just e.g. don´t drop scrolls on every boss chest, but only on final boss chest, so people don´t just grind the first boss all the time (Hi, rem and rako), for crystals make it not a guaranteed, but a 25% chance on T1 final boss, 50% T2 final boss, 75% T3 final boss (maybe even lower). This way people would not be done with all content after one month in the game and devs get a little more time, but older players can still help lower players.

    All numbers I just put up are not solid and defenetly need rework, but the general idea is there.


    For the "premium lotro points" I completly agree and would add on top: give VIPs a monthly drop. Those players carry the game. They deserve to be able to buy the latest expansion on release.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Hroldrin View Post
    Thx first of all for laying all of this out.

    I do agree to the points about locks/bind to account/bind to character and to the solutions for LIs. However the isntance revamp does not sound like a doable solution for me.
    Lett me quickly explain why:

    As you have said it yourself, easy content does always attract more players than hard content. This is a streight problem for the level based solution of Scroll/embers drops. If I say, every single instance ad level 130 does drop guaranteed scrolls, just hard runs drop "more" scrolls, I will actually make it so easy for everyone to get the ur superior scrolls, that I would not need to purchase endgame. Unless you want to say that scalable instances like Barrowdowns should even at level 130 still drop "normal" empowerment scrolls. And if I take the nummer suggestions you lay out here, I basically have my characters done on scrolls/crystals, before the raid even has been released (remember, quite often the raids are beeing released with a slight delay). That would result in players being able to streight up finish the raids just shortly after the release, which than again would make the cap players streight up post in Forum again, that it takes too long for SSG to drop new content.
    Make no mistake, I am no fan of slow grinding, but the main reason we are beeing slowed down is still, so that the devs do have time to create new content, before every player has finished endgame with all their alts.

    So lets say you would "just" award normal scrolls on old level cap instances and not embers, but motes, than I could completly agree to the suggestion. Now lets have a look at the Adventure gear traiders and say those have an embers gear set and a motes gear set, which both scale. The motes gear set is only as good as regional landscape drops or cheap crafted gear (remember, there was a time we actually had that). This would allow players that can not effort the endgame right now, or do not like it, to get an armour to run old instances on T1 cap and get armour drops there on an equal level. Those players will than not finishi the heavy challenges and Tier 2, but at least they are read to progress when the game continues and they can keep alts up, without making the endgame area loose any worth. Now the endgame areas, so right now Morgul Vales and Three peaks, drop embers on level cap runs or armour that still can be ashed to embers. The embers gear from the adventurer boxes would allow Tier 2 and 3 runs, as it does right now. This way there is a difference between end game and old content, but all content is still worth running, specifically if you are just not capable right now of purchasing the latest area.

    Now nerv the drops on the scroll amounts a little, just e.g. don´t drop scrolls on every boss chest, but only on final boss chest, so people don´t just grind the first boss all the time (Hi, rem and rako), for crystals make it not a guaranteed, but a 25% chance on T1 final boss, 50% T2 final boss, 75% T3 final boss (maybe even lower). This way people would not be done with all content after one month in the game and devs get a little more time, but older players can still help lower players.

    All numbers I just put up are not solid and defenetly need rework, but the general idea is there.


    For the "premium lotro points" I completly agree and would add on top: give VIPs a monthly drop. Those players carry the game. They deserve to be able to buy the latest expansion on release.
    Sorry let me clarify some confusion.

    - Running old instances at level cap will give you "normal scroll of empowerments" + motes + level-appropiate gear equivalent to quest gear. Example, current level cap is 130, so if you run Barrowdowns at lvl130, you will get 1 normal scroll of empowerment (unlocks all except last 5 tiers), x number of motes (maybe 100? no idea), and 1 piece of gear lvl130 that has stats equivalent to lvl130 quest gear (so, inferior to gear you could obtain if you do, for example, Harrowing 130 t1, but at least good enough to wander in Imlad Morgul landscape and don't die)
    - Embers in instances is only for level cap areas, not old instances ran at level cap
    - Don't drop in all chests ofc, I was thinking drop in every chest but then the balance of 6mans is too much, they would give insane amount of empos, so I agree that the empo drop balance is per run, not per chest. And yes, final boss
    - About crystals having chance only at last boss I'm not sure, it might work but personally not for me, because running all the instance for a "chance" is too much wasted time. But 75% chance at last boss T3 sounds good, I suppose

    Any more doubts feel free to say and I'll happily clarify/modify

    I edited main post, you were right, I mis-wrote the empowerment drop in the empowerment explanation, now it's corrected and added example too!
    Last edited by Fegefeuer; Jan 14 2021 at 08:23 AM.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  9. #9
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    When I saw the first Bullroarer update I was just thinking that they bring us this terrible news only to add something less terrible, but still terrible lol.

    Either way, they can do what they want.. I honestly couldn't care less because the community get what it deserves. People are now happy with this situation and thank the devs when they have literally not improved the system at all, just made it worse. Yes less worse than the first update, but still its NOT an improvement to the grindy LI system. Maybe you should start thank them when they give us updates that we have actually asked for? There are some addicted forum users here who are always happy with the bare minimum, or even making systems more grindy/expensive.

    Another reason I don't care is because the endgame is so bad right now I quit months ago, who in their right mind find it fun to grind the 2 bare-bone instances called Threshold and Stairs.. If they could have made all cap level instances worth running I would probably play the game.. But everything except these 2 instances are obsolete, and will be for months.

    I liked Stairs and Threshold but its not enough content to be considered a healty endgame. IMO, we have the worst endgame now than any previous level cap.

    Let me ask you guys this:
    Why do you care about LI system when the endgame is so bad? It's not worth spending time to level alts, upgrade LI's, farming rep/virtues or basically anything with this horrible endgame.
    Last edited by LotroVidz; Jan 14 2021 at 08:57 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    When I saw the first Bullroarer update I was just thinking that they bring us this terrible news only to add something less terrible, but still terrible lol.

    Either way, they can do what they want.. I honestly couldn't care less because the community get what it deserves. People are now happy with this situation and thank the devs when they have literally not improved the system at all, just made it worse. Yes less worse than the first update, but still its NOT an improvement to the grindy LI system.

    Another reason I don't care is because the endgame is so bad right now I quit months ago, who in their right mind find it fun to grind the 2 bare-bone instances called Threshold and Stairs.. If they could have made all cap level instances worth running I would probably play the game.. But everything except these 2 instances are obsolete, and will be for months.

    I liked Stairs and Threshold but its not enough content to be considered a healty endgame. IMO, we have the worst endgame now than any previous level cap.

    Let me ask you guys this:
    Why do you care about LI system when the endgame is so bad? It's not worth spending time to level alts, upgrade LI's, farming rep/virtues or basically anything with this horrible endgame.
    I'm at the same point as you, that's why this post was created with educative purposes. Tbh, I just wanted to see if people agree/disagree with my ideas, just to have stuff in mind for the future about how to run game business (not that I'll copy SSG model lmao of course not, it's just experience about game business management in general, customer happiness, healthy game etc). Honestly, this is the main reason I spent time writing this lol. Sorry but I don't have any hopes anymore. I will just maintain 2 characters at endgame, and I have 1 character per class. Except those 2 characters, the rest will just play old areas for fun. So yeah, I'm with you
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    So yeah, I'm with you
    I'm with you as well, but I do think you over complicate things just the way SSG is doing.. I'm not a game designer but they really do like to make things complicated as possible..

    THE PROBLEMATIC OF LOCKS / BIND TO ACCOUNT / BIND TO CHARACTER
    *SOE shouldn't be bound, and should be possible to sell on AH(again this would help out with the ridiculous grindy LI system) - SSG wont do it because they lose IRL money.
    *Gear drops in raids should not be bound to account, this is the most ridiculous thing added to the game. If u want to build a character you should do that by playing THAT character.

    FIXING LEGENDARY ITEM SYSTEM
    *SOEs should only be required at a certain Legacy tier unlocked at cap, the LI should just level along side you until you hit the endgame... Hello, isn't that a simple fix to this horrendous system? Once a new level cap increase hits, the LI will then level with you to the next level cap. This makes the scroll grind and ENDGAME feature as it should be, and as it has been in the past!

    INSTANCE REVAMP
    *Cap instances should have 1-2 UNIQUE loot pieces in EVERY last boss chest, this eliminates farming 1 instance over and over, and eliminates first boss farms.
    *Scrap T4-T5 and make T3 the new T2C, again the current system is just bad.
    *Understand that classes are EXTREMELY unbalanced, so DPS races shouldn't be main tactics in any T4+ boss encounter..

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    I'm with you as well, but I do think you over complicate things just the way SSG is doing.. I'm not a game designer but they really do like to make things complicated as possible..

    THE PROBLEMATIC OF LOCKS / BIND TO ACCOUNT / BIND TO CHARACTER
    *SOE shouldn't be bound, and should be possible to sell on AH(again this would help out with the ridiculous grindy LI system) - SSG wont do it because they lose IRL money.
    *Gear drops in raids should not be bound to account, this is the most ridiculous thing added to the game. If u want to build a character you should do that by playing THAT character.

    FIXING LEGENDARY ITEM SYSTEM
    *SOEs should only be required at a certain Legacy tier unlocked at cap, the LI should just level along side you until you hit the endgame... Hello, isn't that a simple fix to this horrendous system? Once a new level cap increase hits, the LI will then level with you to the next level cap. This makes the scroll grind and ENDGAME feature as it should be, and as it has been in the past!

    INSTANCE REVAMP
    *Cap instances should have 1-2 UNIQUE loot pieces in EVERY last boss chest, this eliminates farming 1 instance over and over, and eliminates first boss farms.
    *Scrap T4-T5 and make T3 the new T2C, again the current system is just bad.
    *Understand that classes are EXTREMELY unbalanced, so DPS races shouldn't be main tactics in any T4+ boss encounter..
    Honestly, I agree with most of what you say, I would just tweak a few things:
    - Sorry if I still propose a complicate system, but it's hard to fix a complicate system without adding something a bit complicated hahahah
    - I don't agree about gear drop in raid but I am not sure what would be better solution also - personally, I dislike RNG, I cleared Remmorchant and then I just used ember to barter pieces. I could tolerate farming instances if you could get a box and you select the piece you want, but random pieces is a no-go for me, although I can understand that others enjoy it
    - Empos only for level cap would be ideal solution but at least my idea is not as dramatic and total system changing as yours, but I support you, though
    - Cap instances having unique gear pieces, personally I dislike this, I'd prefer a box to select the piece you wish, but I can understand your desire
    - Tier system, I agree with you
    - Add one-shot systems to the undesired strategies in boss encounters

    I edit, let me propose you something.

    - Running old instances at level cap, you get random pieces
    - Running endgame instances (non raid), it can be as you say, specific pieces per instance, for example, harro and roost can have 2, filth and gorthad other 2, and the 6mans other 2 etc
    - Running raid, you get a box where you can select your desired piece

    Fair enough?
    Last edited by Fegefeuer; Jan 14 2021 at 09:47 AM.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    - I don't agree about gear drop in raid but I am not sure what would be better solution also - personally, I dislike RNG, I cleared Remmorchant and then I just used ember to barter pieces. I could tolerate farming instances if you could get a box and you select the piece you want, but random pieces is a no-go for me, although I can understand that others enjoy it
    Personally, it makes no sense to do the hardest content(raids) with your main class and at the same time gear another character that have not even stepped into the raid? For me this has to do with accomplishments and keeping the raids active for a longer period of time. With each cap we have 1 if lucky 2 raids, alt runs should be a thing to keep it more active.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    - Empos only for level cap would be ideal solution but at least my idea is not as dramatic and total system changing as yours, but I support you, though
    Its really not that dramatic, they could simply implement a feature that allows them to make legacies level automatically once a new level cap gets released. Makes no sense for new players/alts to go into old grinds to be able to proceed on landscape. It needs to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    - Cap instances having unique gear pieces, personally I dislike this, I'd prefer a box to select the piece you wish, but I can understand your desire
    Sure there could be a box on the last boss for every instance, but that box should have unique equipment to select from only available for that certain instance. Otherwise, what is your solution to people always farming the fastest instances? A few more scrolls here and there is not a fix that would work I think. Take Moria as an example, back then you had to get unique pieces for every instance to be able to proceed into raiding, it made it so players ran every single instance. I loved to do the 6mans in MM, but it was close to impossible to get groups for it, since it was not worth the time investment. If it had unique required loot, everyone would have been running it.

    A nice proof to this is Thrang/Storva, people run it like crazy because of 1 unique item! Its just proven to work and should be like that for all cap instances.

    @SSG, it must be dissappointing spending dev time creating that many instances as you did for MM only to find out no one is running them due to poor itemization/loot progression? To the actual designer who have been making these loot systems for the instances, maybe you should look into MOM/SOM/ROI and take ideas from those times, the loot systems back then worked really well! Since Mordor and onward it has only been a disaster upon disaster..
    Last edited by LotroVidz; Jan 14 2021 at 10:06 AM.

  14. #14
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    I am genuinely glad to see that we're getting a small improvement, years overdue, instead of the drastic worsening that was planned.

    I'm not really seeing anything in OP to argue with, though. They need to keep working. This change does however give me optimism that it's actually their intention to do so!
    Landroval - The Council of the Secret Fire Friendly, Casual, Mature, and always seeking more!
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    I'm with you as well, but I do think you over complicate things just the way SSG is doing.. I'm not a game designer but they really do like to make things complicated as possible..

    THE PROBLEMATIC OF LOCKS / BIND TO ACCOUNT / BIND TO CHARACTER
    *SOE shouldn't be bound, and should be possible to sell on AH(again this would help out with the ridiculous grindy LI system) - SSG wont do it because they lose IRL money.
    *Gear drops in raids should not be bound to account, this is the most ridiculous thing added to the game. If u want to build a character you should do that by playing THAT character.

    FIXING LEGENDARY ITEM SYSTEM
    *SOEs should only be required at a certain Legacy tier unlocked at cap, the LI should just level along side you until you hit the endgame... Hello, isn't that a simple fix to this horrendous system? Once a new level cap increase hits, the LI will then level with you to the next level cap. This makes the scroll grind and ENDGAME feature as it should be, and as it has been in the past!

    INSTANCE REVAMP
    *Cap instances should have 1-2 UNIQUE loot pieces in EVERY last boss chest, this eliminates farming 1 instance over and over, and eliminates first boss farms.
    *Scrap T4-T5 and make T3 the new T2C, again the current system is just bad.
    *Understand that classes are EXTREMELY unbalanced, so DPS races shouldn't be main tactics in any T4+ boss encounter..

    I disagree on the gear be bound to the character, mainly with the Threshold loot rules situation. So many tank drops from that for dps characters it's crazy, if those become bound to character would just be dumb, fix the loot first before making it bound to character.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog548 View Post
    I am genuinely glad to see that we're getting a small improvement, years overdue, instead of the drastic worsening that was planned.

    I'm not really seeing anything in OP to argue with, though. They need to keep working. This change does however give me optimism that it's actually their intention to do so!
    We're not getting a small improvement on the LI system. The small improvement is to the original plan they posted on BR. It's still a nerf, unless they go further with it. I'm genuinely glad that they've decided not to go with the original planned changes, and thankful that they are not, but that doesn't mean I'm happy that the current status quo on LI scroll acquiition in game right now, is still a lot better than what we're going to get when the update arrives.

    When we can currently get 1000, and a proposed change says we will only get 500, changing it to 700 - is still worse than the original 1000.

    People are failing to notice the difference. So . . . food analogy incoming.

    You can get a pint of ice-cream a day in the local parlour. Friday, the Parlour announces that you will no longer get a pint of ice-cream, you will get 0.5 pint. Customers say, no way, that's no good, so the parlour comes back with, ok, you get 0.75 pint. Customer goes Yay, and thinks it's a result, even though they are 0.25 pint down.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Jan 14 2021 at 11:54 AM.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  17. #17
    I also can't see a reason why a lot of "thank you's" now were posted to slightly changed patch notes. The change to SoE is still the badest thing ever and will come to live, if we want or not.

    " Nice tactic, sorry but I won't fall for it" thins sums it up.

  18. #18
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    We're not getting a small improvement on the LI system. The small improvement is to the original plan they posted on BR. It's still a nerf, unless they go further with it. I'm genuinely glad that they've decided not to go with the original planned changes, and thankful that they are not, but that doesn't mean I'm happy that the current status quo on LI scroll acquiition in game right now, is still a lot better than what we're going to get when the update arrives.

    When we can currently get 1000, and a proposed change says we will only get 500, changing it to 700 - is still worse than the original 1000.

    People are failing to notice the difference. So . . . food analogy incoming.

    You can get a pint of ice-cream a day in the local parlour. Friday, the Parlour announces that you will no longer get a pint of ice-cream, you will get 0.5 pint. Customers say, no way, that's no good, so the parlour comes back with, ok, you get 0.75 pint. Customer goes Yay, and thinks it's a result
    Yes - hopefully we see some more improvements over the next few days.

    The thing is SSG aren't stupid they know what the player friendly solution is. They just don't want to do it as it will impact store sales too much.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laerthan1997 View Post
    I disagree on the gear be bound to the character, mainly with the Threshold loot rules situation. So many tank drops from that for dps characters it's crazy, if those become bound to character would just be dumb, fix the loot first before making it bound to character.
    If they add Threshold barter it fix all problems with it

  20. #20
    To reply to @LotroVidz - you are completely right, I think locking certain pieces of gear to certain instances is fine, but this should just be in endgame instances, as I proposed with my edit. And in my opinion, they should reward a box to select content, if not, I'd just run the instance 1 time to unlock the barter and then use embers to barter the pieces, being total RNG won't make me run the instance more. Also, the instance won't be useless even if you get the gear for that character fast, because you can get gear for alts, and you can get empowerments/embers, so it won't make it obsolete after a few runs.

    Let me tell how I developed instance system in one of my games. This game is pretty simple with this, don't try to apply this to Lotro. I made that boss chest rewards gold + tokens + chance to drop a random weapon for random class (you could get wrong class weapon). Gold and tokens were guaranteed. With gold, you can buy 2nd best equipment, and with tokens you can buy best equipment. You can compare this token system to the Throne barter system I think, but easier, because you just accumulate certain amount of tokens and done. And if you got a weapon that you can't use, you can sell for gold. If you get the weapon for your class, congratulations. The game is from level 1-60, 5 expansions, and I made all dungeons with this system, only scaling the gold and token amount and changing the weapons, of course. So, if endgame dungeon is too hard for the player, then the player can farm tokens in low level dungeon. It won't be as fast as farming the endgame one because weapons get progressively more expensive, but it can be done anyway. Lotro needs guaranteed rewards in chests, not just random RNG that 99% times is useless, at least for me and my legendary bad luck.

    About Threshold drops etc, don't forget that Threshold is just 1 instance of 1 region. Level 130 cap is Minas Morgul, Limlok and Elderslade. Threshold is a raid and as far as I know, Remmorchant is harder. So in no way should Threshold be the main/only source of drops. As I said - make all content worth running (lol edit here), not just 1 instance in the latest region. Why bother making instances if nobody run them? They could have released Minas Morgul only with Harro, Roost and Remmo and the situation would be the same as present reality.

    About impact store sales, I think this is a stupid justification (not calling stupid to people saying it, I think you have been fooled). I give my reasons to this:
    - People who don't use store to buy this kind of things, won't use it anyway even if they are forced, and being forced is even more reasons to not use it
    - If people who won't buy the stuff no matter what is forced to buy it with no chance to get it ingame, they will leave the game, or at least, leave the endgame
    - This will result in less endgame players, and its consequence is that it will be even harder to find people to do instances, making harder the task of gearing, and the cycle repeats

    SSG is trying to push to the store to people who will never pay for this kind of things and they fail to realize that no matter how hard they try, they won't accomplish it, this people will rather leave the game. I know I would.

    You know, SSG, yesterday someone asked in worldchat how much are reputation boosts sold for gold in /trade, and I replied: for me, zero, I'd rather leave the game. I even prefer to leave the game than farm Minas Tirith empowerments pre-update to have stock. You force people to the store, people who won't buy this stuff from you no matter what, and all you are getting is players going away. This is going to impact your endgame, and as consequence, to your dear playerbase target.

    But do whatever you want, this post is for educational purposes only...
    Last edited by Fegefeuer; Jan 14 2021 at 02:11 PM.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    To reply to @LotroVidz - you are completely right, I think locking certain pieces of gear to certain instances is fine, but this should just be in endgame instances, as I proposed with my edit. And in my opinion, they should reward a box to select content, if not, I'd just run the instance 1 time to unlock the barter and then use embers to barter the pieces, being total RNG won't make me run the instance more. Also, the instance won't be useless even if you get the gear for that character fast, because you can get gear for alts, and you can get empowerments/embers, so it won't make it obsolete after a few runs.

    About Threshold drops etc, don't forget that Threshold is just 1 instance of 1 region. Level 130 cap is Minas Morgul, Limlok and Elderslade. Threshold is a raid and as far as I know, Remmorchant is harder. So in no way should Threshold be the main/only source of drops. As I said - make all content barterable, not just 1 instance in the latest region. Why bother making instances if nobody run them? They could have released Minas Morgul only with Harro, Roost and Remmo and the situation would be the same as present reality.

    About impact store sales, I think this is a stupid justification (not calling stupid to people saying it, I think you have been fooled). I give my reasons to this:
    - People who don't use store to buy this kind of things, won't use it anyway even if they are forced, and being forced is even more reasons to not use it
    - If people who won't buy the stuff no matter what is forced to buy it with no chance to get it ingame, they will leave the game, or at least, leave the endgame
    - This will result in less endgame players, and its consequence is that it will be even harder to find people to do instances, making harder the task of gearing, and the cycle repeats

    SSG is trying to push to the store to people who will never pay for this kind of things and they fail to realize that no matter how hard they try, they won't accomplish it, this people will rather leave the game. I know I would.

    You know, SSG, yesterday someone asked in worldchat how much are reputation boosts sold for gold in /trade, and I replied: for me, zero, I'd rather leave the game. I even prefer to leave the game than farm Minas Tirith empowerments pre-update to have stock. You force people to the store, people who won't buy this stuff from you no matter what, and all you are getting is players going away. This is going to impact your endgame, and as consequence, to your dear playerbase target.

    But do whatever you want, this post is for educational purposes only...
    Remmorchant is still relevant for the bracers it drops on Shelob T4/T5, and having the 4-set is still an advantage for a lot of classes and specs, so people are still running it to gear up alts with set pieces and get more bracers, so i's not entirely irrelevant (yet).

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Laerthan1997 View Post
    Remmorchant is still relevant for the bracers it drops on Shelob T4/T5, and having the 4-set is still an advantage for a lot of classes and specs, so people are still running it to gear up alts with set pieces and get more bracers, so i's not entirely irrelevant (yet).
    Yeah but I think people who do Shelob T4/T5 is a very small percentage, most I see announced in LFF is boss1 and sides... another proof of bad itemization.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Laerthan1997 View Post
    Remmorchant is still relevant for the bracers it drops on Shelob T4/T5, and having the 4-set is still an advantage for a lot of classes and specs, so people are still running it to gear up alts with set pieces and get more bracers, so i's not entirely irrelevant (yet).
    The fact that those bracers are so much better than any other in the game gives a great advantage to the people that can run them, and while I'm all for giving raiders that put in the work a reward, I feel like it's contributing to the disparity between the top and the bottom in gear for players right now . That has lead to the situation we have right now with the big creep buff, that discouraged a lot of players that don't raid hardcore to even set foot in the moors unless they want to get endlessly farmed.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Laerthan1997 View Post
    The fact that those bracers are so much better than any other in the game gives a great advantage to the people that can run them, and while I'm all for giving raiders that put in the work a reward, I feel like it's contributing to the disparity between the top and the bottom in gear for players right now that has lead to the big creep buff, that discouraged a lot of players that don't raid hardcore to even set foot in the moors unless they want to get endlessly farmed.
    Yes, and to be honest, for a moment, I had the idea that they balanced creeps vs T5 freeps exactly because their target is precisely this kind of people. I would like to think that they balanced vs T5 freeps to avoid zergs and 1shoots, but it's hard for me to believe that they balance vs T5 freeps knowing that this kind of freeps is a very small percentage of players. So if they balance it because they are their target, it shows that they care about their target... I suppose? but they don't care about the rest of the playerbase. Although after seeing some freep reactions, maybe these freeps think that SSG don't care about them because now they can't 1shoot? I just don't know what to think anymore lmao

    Just to clarify and don't make people angry against me lol - I think their target is endgame players who always buy stuff with real money no matter what, and this includes T5 players also just by the fact that generally, players that put so much effort in the game are players who buy content on release and they can even buy solvents/loobox keys/whatever. I'm not saying 100% of T5 players do this, but I bet that many do - because I don't think a T1 player is going to spend money on solvents or keys
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
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