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  1. #201
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    Nov 2012
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    Wales, United Kingdom
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oddessia View Post
    Tybur,

    Thank you for the response! Its heartening to know the team is listening.

    You certainly can't please everyone and it seems that these changes are coming, whether tweaked or not. So Im going to be that person and say...Im sorry, Im still not satisfied. This (regardless of tweaks) is still a big nerf to scrolls we can get daily.

    I can go along with the changes but I'd suggest increasing the daily reward on end game at least. As well I'll reserve final judgement for how other dailies will stack up until we see them in BR, because until then - we dont know how many you are adding as a daily reward. 1? 2? That's nowhere near enough to cover the hit we take from MT scrolls cap.

    Tweaks or not its still more grindy - and that's my base issue. More grindy. On a grind that is already so insane I've stopped bothering to keep up. I just hope that the "revamp" that is still coming addresses this grind in a way that makes these changes sensical. Because to me, they still aren't. I'm very appreciative of the feedback and response from you guys, but remain deflated that this is happening at all.

    It's like giving us a shiny nice bike (lotro) and as we ride off into enjoyment with it you then jam a stick in our wheel and send us crashing into the pavement. But then you come over with bandages and pain killers so "its not so bad." This may soothe some people but why not just NOT jam the freaking stick in our wheel to begin with?

    Opinions aside these tweaks have raised more questions:
    1) As many others have pointed out, there are many gaps in the proposed list of when/where a scroll is capped. Many gaps. Will all these holes be addressed and thoroughly thought out before implementation?

    2) The token barter amount on some of these are high, you have to do dailies multiple days to barter for even 1. Will the currency ratio be tweaked?

    3) Daily quests in most areas are locked behind completion of almost the entire zone's quests. What about Valared players? They now have to quest through the entirety of each zone, that they paid to skip...to open up dailies?

    My final point is another echoed already many times - yes there are lots of ways to get SOE's you listed them off yourself. Almost all of which require group play. I know a looootttt of players that detest grouping and refuse to do it. They will run around with far substandard LIs over being forced to group. So I'd suggest tweaking some reward numbers and looking at some options to add a better source or two for them. (Which I did see you mention so that's great.)

    I'm really looking forward to seeing the numbers come down on BR, so we can really nail down just how many SOEs these dailies will give overall for time spent. Keep in mind that while adding SOE rewards to dailies is good - if it requires us to run around 6 different zones to do their dailies every day, at 2 hours a pop per toon however...that's NOT worth it, not time well spent and not an improvement in any regard.

    Slightly less deflated,

    Ods
    I completely overlooked point 3, and you're correct. Many of us have alts that join in on the MT grind, as reaching friend status to open two of the dailies is pretty easy to achieve. Getting dailies open in other areas which involve whole regions of quests is something that takes a massive amount of time. This needs to be addressed. Where regions require whole areas to be completed to open dailies, scrolls should be added to general barter NPC's for the area, rather than NPC's that open up with dailies.

    *This is crucial to players that paid to Valar up characters. If they don't address it, then good luck selling any more of those packages.

    I also support your final point. Many of us can run Throne for non capped SoE's but that doesn't help the solo players of the game, and 2 scrolls a day from Elderslade is in no way making up for the loss from MT that they face. I vaguely remember a promo stream from the devs about Missions, where they mentioned something along the lines of wanting players to learn a little bit more about their classes and to get more involved in group content. The first step towards getting players more involved in group content, is ensuring they can gear up for it, and their LI's are important for that.

    As I said earlier to Tybur, things look a little less dark now, but really, things need to look light and this still needs further tweaks for it to be acceptable. If they can't get it right, then leave it as it is now.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Jan 14 2021 at 03:40 AM.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  2. #202
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
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    916
    Oh it's the old "Good Dev, Bad Dev" routine...


    Most of us have had years dealing with the minefield of Imbuement and Legacies. A fair proportion failed miserably to get to grips with it, not least our CM and cohort.

    The unchanged means of obtaining unrestricted Anfalas Scrolls of Empowerment listed are demonstrably beyond them because they comprise content they fail miserably to achieve on level alone. The suggestion that repeating older content over and over is the driver for the changes is spurious just for what is not changed.

    What is best for any player is to use our time efficiently where a grind inhibits our progress. MT Dailies provide(d) the most efficient means for alts and solo players, if we had the time we could do Dol and Osg. Most importantly obtaining a fixed number of scrolls for the time invested is guaranteed. Conversely any instance chest reward scroll is determined by the RND and completely out of our influence and totally under SSG's undisclosed choice for chances. I'm reminded that yesterday the RND rewarded me with a Universal Solvent, I vaguely remember posting the last time I "won" a solvent, I frankly don't remember where I would need to start to find that post. Autumn/Fall maybe.

    No the driver behind this is the grift, hands off the mugs that would otherwise buy our scrolls so you can charge them three for four times more in the store or a key gambling mindset.

  3. #203
    Dear SSG,
    instead of hampering our ability to make and level imbued Legendary items via slapping artificial tiers on Scrolls of Empowerment and thus making the storage even worse, you should have worked on allowing us to apply a stack of up to 10 scrolls to a legacy, so players don't get wrist injuries and permanent brain damage from having to click 609-812 times to apply scrolls from t54 to t83.
    THAT would be quality of life, not the grind increase you sell as improvement.

  4. #204
    This change is nice, but the big bear in the room is still there.


    Makes this mess imho just a bit better.

  5. #205
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    First, I wanted to say thank you for all of the detailed and well-thought-out feedback we have been reading.

    Regarding Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors:
    We will be removing any max level limits on these tomes, but we do want to make the acquired tomes bind. So, after 28.3 Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors will be bound to account on acquire (no other changes). We recognize that there are significant reputation ‘grinds’ throughout the game, for example with crafting guilds, where these scrolls are beneficial, and limiting acquisition by player level is not needed in this case.

    Regarding Scrolls of Empowerment:
    We really do want to make the process of acquiring these scrolls more varied and more meaningful at a given end-game, but we also want the acquisition process to be appropriate to the level of the content. We'll be fixing a math error quickly discovered by the community regarding how we set tier limits on scrolls from Gondor, which makes them largely useless for Imbued items unless your character is on a Legendary World with a level cap below 115. We also intend to address a gap in available scrolls for solo landscape players at level caps 105, 115, and 120.
    Here are our current 28.3 plans for Scrolls of Empowerment:
    • Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).
    • Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
    • Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
    • Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).
    • Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
    • Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.
    • The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.
    • The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.


    Regarding Vendors for Threshold Raid Jewellery:
    Yes, we will be adding those (with appropriate deed gating on barter), hopefully in time for 28.3.

    Regarding Guardians:
    Class balance is an ongoing process. We know Guardians need some love. We won’t forget, but that isn’t in the cards for 28.3.

    First of all, it's a nice start, even if not everything was heard what the players said and it seems like a little bit that you give us a little bit of something so that you can relax again.

    I can only say about the classes like guardians, wardens etc: if you know these classes are simply not balanced at the moment, I put my team on it and not on other changes. In terms of class balancing, something urgently needs to be done !!!



    i have the advantage that i play several classes but i also know people who actually only have the guardian ... they log in once a week do the echad uial weeklys and leave again
    Last edited by Kakistos; Jan 14 2021 at 04:56 AM.

  6. #206
    While I'm happy that at least our opinions are being listened to, I'm still not happy about the rank locking, and I'm ESPECIALLY not happy about the fact that the landscape "endgame" content in the WoTP will still give scrolls locked to rank 83. They should go up to rank 87. I thought you were trying to make people do the current content? But with these changes you'll still have people running "old" content to get their legacies up to rank 87; and, as you've already stated, you don't want people to grind old content for scrolls, so well done for totally undermining your own efforts.
    NELED GWAITH | OZRAID
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  7. #207
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Krakow
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    "We really do want to make the process of acquiring these scrolls more varied and more meaningful at a given end-game"
    There is nothing meaningful about getting SoEs - you need hundreds or thousands of those for a basic weapon you use daily.

    Loved the "variety" part - all you need is lots of time, lots of grouping and lots of RNG luck. Lots of skirms for lots of rep tomes for your Valared toons to open lots of tiers of lots of reps to get a few scrolls in a meaningful and appropriate way. We already had variety with embers/motes added, it's LESS variety now.

    Above all, it's puzzling how this company interacts with customers, good cop, bad cop indeed - check how far we can take it, tweak it, serve it as a gracious gift - Hey, they listened to us! - It's not really that bad - rinse/repeat. Big problems unsolved, Store looking just a little bit more enticing, temporary peace,
    till next time.

    I will play till it's no longer fun but ANY kind of monetary contribution or encouraging others to give LOTRO a try is out of the question. I own all the content (minus 3peaks), starter packs and other goodies, full free ride from now on. I dislike business deals that make both sides look silly.
    Roaming Gladden since 2013

  8. #208
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    34
    For Mordor and Minas Morgul, probably motes/embers are intended to convert to scrolls? That's why they are not mentioned?

    Will those new max-69, max-79, etc scrolls bind to account or to the character?

    Personally I hate dailies, I avoid them at all cost unless they can be done very fast (hi, goblin daily at Limlok and 3000 VXP). Probably I'll just run School every 6 weeks and try to not skip Rako, while seeing those motes/embers collect themselves (thank goodness they are account-wide) and dumping them to L74 scrolls. Pity for Dol Amroth, I have a campsite bound to Tarlang's Crown and sometimes go there to pew-pew-pew mobs, making 1 scroll in 5 minutes.

    PS.
    Dear Devs, do you remember we got 3 trait trees but only 2 of them are free? Will people bother to open the 3rd with paid currency, if they cannot make LIs for it in reasonable time?

  9. #209
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    2,567
    It's clear what Valared characters need complete huge amount of quests to reach SoE, but I don't see how SSG can change anything here. They want to see people complete quests, all this game about lore and story. They clearly don't give too much benefits to Aria of Valar. I even don't sure if most of players with Valar find it such important, because newbies who use valar complete all quests anyway (and DON'T know all what sources), and veterans who use valar already have access to Rem/AD and Skirmish Camp and see it as main source of SoE. Of course, it hurts only players who decide not participate in any raid and decide to play solo. They must choice what they can do more - have full LI if that means what they need to learn how work with team, or keep playing alone with more grind. Looks like developers strongly thinks what people on 100 level with fully imbued LI will be too OP. And we can't deny what 100 level player and 100 level player with 652 LI have huge difference.

    P.S. Adding mechanics to buy multiple SoE and use multiple SoE on one LI can be nice touch to that changes. Now it's time to make that decision.

  10. #210
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Eisenberge
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    ...
    Regarding Scrolls of Empowerment:
    We really do want to make the process of acquiring these scrolls more varied and more meaningful at a given end-game, but we also want the acquisition process to be appropriate to the level of the content. We'll be fixing a math error quickly discovered by the community regarding how we set tier limits on scrolls from Gondor, which makes them largely useless for Imbued items unless your character is on a Legendary World with a level cap below 115. We also intend to address a gap in available scrolls for solo landscape players at level caps 105, 115, and 120.
    Here are our current 28.3 plans for Scrolls of Empowerment:
    • Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).
    • Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
    • Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
    • Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).
    • Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
    • Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.
    • The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.
    • The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.

    ...
    This should then be combined with a massive reduction of the exchange prices for this limited Scrolls of Empowerment, as you no longer spend months or years on level 100, 105, 115, etc. The grind should be reduced to a tolerable level for twinks and limited to the last tiers.

  11. #211
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Germany
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    653
    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    First, I wanted to say thank you for all of the detailed and well-thought-out feedback we have been reading.
    [...]
    Thank you for your reply, Tybur. What you posted really reconciles me - it is so much better than what was originally planned. With these barter options I see a way to get viable LIs also for my 9th and 10th alts
    There's some good in this world, and it is worth fighting for.

  12. #212
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    148
    Tybur, thank you for the update. Yes these revised SOE tier changes are better than the initial announcement, but they still feel a little heavy-handed.

    I hear what you're saying about Dol Amroth content pre-dating Imbuement (I checked, Imbued LI's came out with U16 Osgiliath, clear back in May 2015!). On the other hand I agree with some of the previous posts that Western Gondor is when lvl 100 LI's become available (U14). I would imagine that many players that are leveling through the content would want to Imbue their LI as soon as lvl 100 LI's became available.

    While I have been playing this game off and on since the early days, I'm admittedly a casual player and behind on content today. I don't own 3 Peaks yet, no plans to purchase in the immediate future. That being said regardless of where a player is on their journey the LI system is incredibly complex, confusing, and let's just admit it -- a grind. Both pre-and especially post-Imbuement. I like the suggestions of applying stacks of SOE's as a quality of life improvement, in the same way we can apply stacks of IXP runes today.

    This might not be the right venue, I have a humble proposal on revamping the LI system: what about back-porting Imbuement to Moria? This could be optional, but available for those who want it. Additionally, to help LI's continue to grow with players, perhaps Imbued LI's before level 100 could be upgraded/transformed/up-leveled at a Forge Master, maybe with the addition of a Symbol of Celebrembor or Elder King? That would allow players to upgrade their lvl 55 LI to a lvl 65, then 75, then 85, then 95 or 100. Thus the item could grow with the player during their whole journey. I'm not a game designer and I'm sure there are many considerations, just throwing this out there as an idea!
    Member of The Lonely Mountain Band!
    Sullo - 130 Hunter; Hadforod - 125 Champ

  13. #213
    This still feels like 3 steps back, 1 step forward compared to current Live (in terms of scroll acquisition). If you want us to purchase and play newest content, why wouldn't you give a larger reward for doing so? - at least equal to what's being taken from MT. And why are two of your most recent and biggest expansions being excluded? I used to love doing Mordor dailies for keys. Give me a reason to go back and do those again. And nothing for Minas Morgul? So newer players should skip buying those expansions? I don't understand why there shouldn't be a chance to drop LI progression items in all post 100 instances - even T1. Shouldn't you want us to play all the amazing content your fantastic developers have produced?

    This feels to me like its driven by the new shareholder owned public company that, like so many of its peers, are concerned only about metrics that will drive share price and guarantee favorable stock options for top tier management and could care less about the long term health of the company or product. I hope that's wrong, but I can't otherwise understand the motivation of LOTRO employees to implement changes that increase the grind and frustration that players already feel with this system. Please continue to look for ways to make your long-time loyal customers WANT to log in and play through your awesome content.

  14. #214

    Fix Aggrevating Wounds please^^ (Redline Warden bug)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    We have indeed seen extensive feedback on the Warden. And we have not forgotten Rune-Keepers either :-). However, it can only help us when we do go to make changes, to have detailed / consolidated feedback. We do read the class sub-forums as well as these preview threads searching for class feedback. We also read the General Discussion and Feedback forum of course, but it is easier for specific feedback to get lost / buried there.
    Just read this few months old thread if you havent done it https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...robably-bugged

    And it also would be nice if the deep-strikes dot from the champion couldnt refresh itself, it very often clips the dot before it can even tick.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Freenen View Post
    Just read this few months old thread if you havent done it https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...robably-bugged

    And it also would be nice if the deep-strikes dot from the champion couldnt refresh itself, it very often clips the dot before it can even tick.
    +1
    Regarding champion, either make deep strikes tier up and let it run out on t3 or make it impossible to refresh it once it is applied.

  16. #216
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    UK
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    387
    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    First, I wanted to say thank you for all of the detailed and well-thought-out feedback we have been reading.
    Thanks for engaging with this thread. These changes are obviously better than what we had before, but still have some serious issues. Since I was vocal in my criticism, it's only fair that I also put forth some constructive suggestions now it seems someone is listening.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    Regarding Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors:
    We will be removing any max level limits on these tomes, but we do want to make the acquired tomes bind. So, after 28.3 Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors will be bound to account on acquire (no other changes). We recognize that there are significant reputation ‘grinds’ throughout the game, for example with crafting guilds, where these scrolls are beneficial, and limiting acquisition by player level is not needed in this case.
    Fine by me. I don't really have any problem with reputation accelerators being bound to account, though it does seem a strange limitation to add at this stage, and detrimental to the already rather sad state of the AH, but not exactly the end of the world. Most importantly it doesn't try and force players to the store.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    Regarding Scrolls of Empowerment:
    We really do want to make the process of acquiring these scrolls more varied and more meaningful at a given end-game, but we also want the acquisition process to be appropriate to the level of the content. We'll be fixing a math error quickly discovered by the community regarding how we set tier limits on scrolls from Gondor, which makes them largely useless for Imbued items unless your character is on a Legendary World with a level cap below 115.
    I really do have to question how this error wasn't noticed *before* the patch notes went up. I hope you can understand how it does paint a worrying picture of how much understanding there is on the SSG side of how the LI grind actually works for players. If no one had flagged it up on the forums, would it even have been noticed before it went live?

    When it comes to LI fixes like this, it's obviously always going to be a contentious issue, because this is one of the worst grinds in the game, has been so for years and years, and has driven many a player away, as well as sucking the fun out of gearing up their character for many others. Looking at how even this one patch has gone so far, it seems like there does need to be more back-and-forth engagement with the community on how the problem ought to be solved, because there does appear to be a mismatch between SSG's understanding of the player experience, and the actual player experience, when it comes to the scrolls grind. Some kind of discussion forum with the devs, or maybe even a poll of some different changes you're considering, or perhaps a dedicated Q&A/suggestions session on one of the Friday livestreams (either with or without another dev present, but, and I mean this gently, if it's a Q&A with Cordovan only perhaps someone else at SSG could give him a crash-course on imbuement & empowerment scrolls beforehand ).



    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    We also intend to address a gap in available scrolls for solo landscape players at level caps 105, 115, and 120.
    Here are our current 28.3 plans for Scrolls of Empowerment:
    • Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).
    • Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
    • Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
    • Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).
    • Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
    • Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.
    • The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.
    • The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.
    I am banging my head against a wall slightly that this is the sort of thing that players were asking for constantly when all those zones were actually endgame. There hasn't been a "level-appropriate" source of scrolls like this since Gondor, like 4 years ago, so while it's good these are being added, it's still disappointing that it took this long. Several points:

    1. These new additions do not mitigate the loss of scrolls from MT dailies, because they are a) all spread out across the map, making it much more time-consuming to farm, and b) in many cases require the entire zone to be completed first in order to unlock the dailies which reward these scrolls, which is an inordinate amount of effort for someone who, say, is just trying to gear up a valared alt. So just to make it clear, we are still operating at a net loss here.

    2. I'm sure I know the answer, but I have to ask in good faith anyway: why is the only level 130 zone to give landscape scrolls War of Three Peaks? Wells of Langflood and Minas Morgul are both level cap zones, by this logic they should also give max-tier 83 scrolls as well, or at least the 5 new ones you're adding ought to be spread out across the three zones. This current plan makes no sense since Minas Morgul is still a major expansion that otherwise gives great rewards and is well worth buying. Neglecting it like this in order to push the new, much more meagre, update, won't be beneficial in the long run as new players consider which expansion to buy.

    3. Why is Throne of the Dread Terror still the only raid to reliably give empowerment scrolls? So many people have agreed over the years that the loot/gearing system from Throne was far superior to anything that came after. It's been run near-constantly ever since it came out, which is impressive when you compare it to the desolate state of Abyss of Mordath, or even Anvil which was run solely for Rimes, and so is now abandoned too. Why not just add empowerment scrolls to subsequent raid vendors, or even have post-Throne raids drop the same Ancient Ithil-coins? It makes no sense to say that you want scroll acquisition to be more level-appropriate whilst still having the best source of scrolls be a level 105 raid. Do not, I repeat DO NOT, remove the scrolls from Throne, I can hardly think of any change more harmful, but please understand that these changes in no way achieve your stated goal of making "the acquisition process to be appropriate to the level of the content".

    4. The excessive number of different types of scrolls that will now be in the game with this update is getting silly. This change will make the imbued LI process even more confusing for players trying to wrap their heads around it, and given as well that scrolls still only stack up to 10 of the same type, uneccessarily inventory-clogging. Why not just have LI tiers capped by player level, and have all scrolls work the same? So, for example, a level 100 character can imbue their LI, but can only unlock tiers up to, say, 53, with one tier unlocking per level up to 83 (some other numbers would probably work better, but just an example). This is I believe similar to how it works on the Legendary Servers, so clearly it's possible.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    Regarding Guardians:
    Class balance is an ongoing process. We know Guardians need some love. We won’t forget, but that isn’t in the cards for 28.3.
    I hope you can understand the concern, when things such as "we won't forget" have been being said about Guardians for over two years now. Even just a one-sentence post by a dev any time in the last six months with an update on how the work is going would have been so much appreciated. The tweaks added a few patches ago did not inspire much confidence. And, I think this is probably the 300th time I've said this, Shield Use Rank on belts still does nothing but still allows you to spend star-lit crystals (or even Mithril Coins) on it, with zero in-game warning or explanation. If you can't make that stat useful yet, then disable the spending of crystals on belts or add a warning. This should have been done a long time ago.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    Anfalas Scrolls of Empowerment (without tier caps) will continue to be available from a variety of level scaling and group content sources such as Featured Instances, Epic Battles barter, Skirmish camp barter, PvMP barter, Gift Giver's Brand barter, and many our our three and six player Instance chests as well as Raid chests.
    Alright, I do have to ask: if your aim is to make scroll aquisition more level-appropriate, why are you pointing to such old content as a recommended source for them? Epic Battles are still at level 100, almost all RTs are still at level 100/105, and as for Featured Instances... where to begin. If the intention is for players to still be running the FI to obtain scrolls, why has the FI rotation not been updated in years? Why does the FI still give almost entirely heavily outdated rewards? Why was the last FI gear set level 115, and the other Featured Challenge rewards not updated since then either? Why do the Legendary Servers (which are premium, paid-only servers it bears repeating once again) have the same stale FI rotation, including instances that literally cannot be accessed on those servers? Once upon a time people would run FI all day every day, even when it was a 12-man. Now people farm it when it's School and that's it. Really sad state of affairs for what was a really great idea and a lovely addition to the game.




    On a side note, I also do have to wonder how the first patch notes ever ended up getting posted in the first place, and then left for over 24h with no comment, leading to resentment festering, many already cancelling their subs and/or downloading other games, outlets publicising the changes, etc., but nevermind. Not a criticism aimed at any one person in particular, just to clarify, but as a general policy it might be worth asking for feedback/suggestions first, then making scroll/LI changes based on that, rather than posting... whatever that mess was, and then backtracking once everyone's angry as hell. Just an observation.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    Anfalas Scrolls of Empowerment (without tier caps) will continue to be available from a variety of level scaling and group content sources such as Featured Instances, Epic Battles barter, Skirmish camp barter, PvMP barter, Gift Giver's Brand barter, and many our our three and six player Instance chests as well as Raid chests.
    As a long time VIP player who wanders through the landscape solo, how am I supposed to get these scrolls? I would like to second an earlier suggestion that the scrolls are all maxed, but bound to account. Does it really matter that much or affect anyone else if I choose to do lower level content instead of the latest zones? I can honestly say that I will probably lose interest if I get bogged down in a zone because my ILIs are substandard.

  18. #218
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    296
    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement)
    Dol Amroth is a lvl 100 zone . . . . . https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Que...oth_City_Guard

    You are ignoring that many and quite probably the majority of players hit 100 prior to DA and continue to keep on lurching above the level ranges you cite because we are no longer paused at previous level caps - I have a 127 starting the Vales atm.

    Boggled SSG has spent time and money creating yet another irksome, tedious, limiting and fun killing mechanic that promises to savage player retention when new players reach those levels, final straw some into quitting, and increase the number of committed players who for more than a decade have spent solely to support the game and are now voting with their wallets as a last resort to attempt to direct SSG's attention to what matters to players as nothing else has worked since SSG took over.

    You designed this to achieve? How does this design achieve that objective? Is it likely to achieve it in practice as well as in theory?

    I genuinely can't fathom what this was designed to achieve. From my point of view it imposes an unfun game limiting motes/embers/figment caps equivalent on what is and should be the fun leveling up part of the game. Embers caps now determine what my 130 choses to do or not do and if I can afford to open a lootbox - I still have some quest keys from Mordor because of this. Figment caps determine if and how much festivaling I do on alts. Motes caps determine if I'm able to open lootboxes on lower lvl chars - still got Anniversary keys on some of them. [PLEASE btw list Motes, Embers Figments (no heading to open) under gold and mc as it is my most frequently accessed item in barter wallet and scrolling and opening it to plan my activities over and over and over is tiresome tiresome tiresome]. Now leveling will become: check soe caps of zones and plan which I will or won't do so char will be correct level to earn usable soes, keep anxious eye on char level so I don't accidentally blow my chance, try to estimate how many levels x region will give so I know when I must stop questing where I am and move to it as if I continue in current zone my char will miss 80% of opportunities to earn usable soes there due to outleveling that zone too. For those who don't say F-this and this game I foresee detailed guides of what one can and can't do to be able to earn empowerment powers of lvl they can use appearing.

    Some will buy stone of tortoise so they can play the game. Many will not buy regions as if they don't skip some they won't be able to earn empowerment scrolls. Even these attempts to accommodate this latest daft mechanic aren't satisfactory solutions. Stone of tortoise enables the earning of usable empowerment scrolls but imposes slow leveling on players who don't want to level slowly (stone should be free to Vips btw as not all want rested xp - they are free to all in other games). Skipping regions can at best work for some level ranges no matter how much we torture ourselves as above due to class points. If, eg we skip West Rohan we lose 5 class points, if we don't do all Central Gondor regions or lose 4 class points, MT quest and slayers for class pts, epics for class pts etc and if we pursue class points we find ourselves over lvl for earning soes in the next zone and the next - it's common to hit 100 mid West Rohan.

    My take is that in general SSG sets earn more money from X as objective and designs something regarded to promote sales of X with either little interest in how it affects gameplay or insufficient knowledge of the game to be able to assess this. As but 1 example: we will get more solvent sales if we stop making easy to hop into purple gear. The only such from 100-130 is 115 - I'm not counting 120 as each piece uses multiple raid drops and few crafters could afford to make it at cost that ran to 20,000 gold for a full set of basic purple gear when cap was 120, and while a comparatively mere 450-750 gold per piece due to shard prices 130 purples are also prohibitively expensive. In the face of scores of players complaining the game had become "alt hostile" due to the removal of crafted purple gear with stats, or any gear in the case 105 unless they ground FI on all of them, ppl retiring alts a pace - I went from 7 to 3 at that time, and some quitting SSG did not address this. Is there sense to be made of this other than that the whales accepted the must buy solvents to make essences design and income from them was greater than the estimated loss of fewer per dropped alt solvent sales, subs and players?

    I may be unfairly judging SSG but when I look at this design that makes 0 sense to me in game terms all I can do is speculate that its intention is to promote store sales of Stones and Soes: Let's design something that makes earning soes so unworkable players will be forced to either buy them in the store or at least buy a Stone of Tortoise. Similarly with binding rep accelerators to account. This is cruel and unusual punishment to new players with limited ability to earn marks and medallions in particular until they level up a 100 char. All I can see is Objective: increase store rep accelerator sales, Design: cut off supply in game. You may wish to look up research on the effects of pushy salesmen.

  19. #219
    Tybur, thanks for your reply. This is better than the original plan, but not good enough. Not by far. It still makes the most terrible grindfest in the game worse than before.

    I do want to give SSG the benefit of the doubt, but I also have to say: If this wasn't a premeditated strategy (good cop - bad cop, decoy effect marketing or whatever it may be called), then the original proposal was riddled with incompetence. I find neither possibility very flattering for the company.

    The community has been pleading for years for a relief from the grindfest that is levelling an LI. The answer has been "There is going to be a revamp." On this background, can we not fairly expect any change to the system to be a relief instead of even more annoyance?

    In case a revamp, bringing true relief, is still coming, why not wait until then with changes like this one that without considerable improvements in other places make things much worse instead of better? (And please, as others have said, keep in mind casuals, solo players, and alt lovers. There are lots of us.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unthariel
    -there are many reputation vendors that do not offer anything useful, for example the entire barter for Mark of Longbeards is completely useless and also the currency is capped to 500, so maybe consider adding Tier 79 scrolls there for 100 Marks of Longbeards, and similarly to some other "dead" barters, especially ones with capped currencies
    I second that.
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  20. #220
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    34
    Why add scrolls to dailies at all? Why not add them to barter, at Acquaintance/Friend rep?

    Valared/festival-leveled character can start the zone => do some questing for deeds => use coins for scrolls. Main character wants another set of LI => check what barter currency is still left from questing, barter it. A simpler solution, which would still require to own the region or be VIP.

    The current idea to gate scrolls behind dailies might be fine for the 1st character only, who does zone after zone after zone for the 1st time.

  21. #221
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    3 Harrow Rd., Bamborings, Shire
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    1,667
    Thank you for making the system slightly better than it was before instead of much worse as planned. ;-}

    Obviously it's not the overhaul the system NEEDS, and it's a ridiculously long time coming for even such a relatively small change, but it is (as far as I can tell) a net positive and a fine first step. Every little bit helps and it is appreciated, and good trends build customer confidence!
    Landroval - The Council of the Secret Fire Friendly, Casual, Mature, and always seeking more!
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  22. #222
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    717
    I will not repeat all of the below but I will say SSG look at this thread. Look at the disappointment in your customers. Listen to everyone. It’s one thing to make a money grab but I am sure there are more shuttle ways of doing it. Maybe it’s not and your developers thought changes made sense. I think the later is proven to be a big mistake. Why test your changes and ignore the feedback.

    Do as you will bet don’t ignore the consequences. Your bottom line may depend on it


    Do the right thing
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  23. #223
    @Tybur:
    Thanks for the reply, but no thanks for the offer.
    To me this is a case of two steps forward, one step back (in this case, three steps back, on step forward). We are being threatened with a huge slap, then get a small smack instead and are supposed to be grateful.

    Breaking news: we are not.
    I must buy the three pigs to get scrolls, no thanks. I must go on raids, no thanks. The input latency is making 3man a pain, I don't need to scale the pain up.
    So you are breaking it for many, while improving it for ... nobody. And somewhere, these changes were labled as "reducing the need to run old content" or something along the lines IIRC. Leave that to me if I'd rather do old content or not, mom - I'm a grown up.
    When we asked for changes, we meant "make it less of a pain", not "raise the pain level, we ain't dead yet".

  24. #224

    This will see me out

    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    First, I wanted to say thank you for all of the detailed and well-thought-out feedback we have been reading.

    Regarding Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors:
    We will be removing any max level limits on these tomes, but we do want to make the acquired tomes bind. So, after 28.3 Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors will be bound to account on acquire (no other changes). We recognize that there are significant reputation ‘grinds’ throughout the game, for example with crafting guilds, where these scrolls are beneficial, and limiting acquisition by player level is not needed in this case.

    Regarding Scrolls of Empowerment:
    We really do want to make the process of acquiring these scrolls more varied and more meaningful at a given end-game, but we also want the acquisition process to be appropriate to the level of the content. We'll be fixing a math error quickly discovered by the community regarding how we set tier limits on scrolls from Gondor, which makes them largely useless for Imbued items unless your character is on a Legendary World with a level cap below 115. We also intend to address a gap in available scrolls for solo landscape players at level caps 105, 115, and 120.
    Here are our current 28.3 plans for Scrolls of Empowerment:
    • Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).
    • Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
    • Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
    • Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).
    • Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
    • Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.
    • The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.
    • The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.


    Regarding Vendors for Threshold Raid Jewellery:
    Yes, we will be adding those (with appropriate deed gating on barter), hopefully in time for 28.3.

    Regarding Guardians:
    Class balance is an ongoing process. We know Guardians need some love. We won’t forget, but that isn’t in the cards for 28.3.

    I really do not understand why the tomes of acceleration need to be bound. I don't often sell on AH but this is yet another thing that is going to stop people making a little coin along the way, like when you got rid of the keys.
    It used to be a nice surprise to see something special occasionally drop.
    But by far the most disappointing are the proposed changes to SoE. There is already enough grinding to achieve the levels required for LI and these proposed changes will just make the game drag along even more.
    Gone is any realistic chance of creating a new trait line. Adding to the grind isn't making me and others want to stay. Why not completely destroy the fun and scale the Stars of Merit crystals too.
    It's been a good 10 years but this unfortunately is going to see me out.

  25. #225
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    563
    Just to be clear, this is how the revised system's math looks with the updated proposal

    Landscape Area Legacy Tier Cap Tiers to gain from previous cap Scrolls needed per character (4 LI's x 7 legacies) Weekly scrolls available Weeks to complete
    Osgiliath/Minas Tirith 59 13 364 56-63 5.7-6.5
    Eryn Lasgalen 69 10 280 2-4 (estimate), 6 from motes (74 cap) 28-35
    Mordor (daily motes) 74 5 140 14 10
    Vales of Anduin 79 5 140 6 (estimate) 23.3
    Elderslade 83 4 112 17 16

    So it's understandable that people are still wary of it. MT is a massive source of SoE's that even with a tier cap of 59 will still cover the most amount of ground in the least amount of time. Looking at the scroll grinds for the various caps in various zones.... yikes.

    Granted these numbers do not account for other miscellaneous sources of uncapped SoE's, motes, embers, etc. and a player doing exclusively solo-oriented landscape content doesn't necessarily *need* 100% maxed LI's. It's still a lot.

 

 
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