Bullroarer Update 28.3 - Preview #1 - CLOSED

[NacMac]

Amazing what the application of the above will do.

Not many hours ago everyone was against the changes. Now people are thanking the devs!

View

https://blog.crobox.com/article/psyc...keting%20field.

and decide which strategy they have employed

The acquisition of 'no cap' scrolls from MT dailies is still to be nerfed.

[Fegefeuer]

Amazing what the application of the above will do.

Not many hours ago everyone was against the changes. Now people are thanking the devs!

View

https://blog.crobox.com/article/psyc...keting%20field.

and decide which strategy they have employed

The acquisition of 'no cap' scrolls from MT dailies is still to be nerfed.

Thank you for the link, I think the same as you. I won't forget this so easily. I'm also amazed.

[Kneppa]

Thank you guys, so much. We are so grateful!!!!!!!!

[Kyannah]

Ods hits it on the head! Making the LI system way more grindy with less choice -- to what end?? Please, please have a good hard re-think about these changes...and make the right decision for the sanity of your player base!

Not at ALL happy about this, I am a casual player with a number of alts . Why make this so hard? after 11 toons I was so SICK of MT dailies and I have one toon left... and they now make it HARDER .... It may be time to pick up another past time

[HolyDuckTape]

We have indeed seen extensive feedback on the Warden. And we have not forgotten Rune-Keepers either :-). However, it can only help us when we do go to make changes, to have detailed / consolidated feedback. We do read the class sub-forums as well as these preview threads searching for class feedback. We also read the General Discussion and Feedback forum of course, but it is easier for specific feedback to get lost / buried there.

Hopefully this will mean a tank update is coming as all tanks are in a horrible place. Captain is too OP and all the other tanks are way too horrible to even be considered in majority of content.

First, I wanted to say thank you for all of the detailed and well-thought-out feedback we have been reading.

Regarding Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors:
We will be removing any max level limits on these tomes, but we do want to make the acquired tomes bind. So, after 28.3 Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors will be bound to account on acquire (no other changes). We recognize that there are significant reputation ‘grinds’ throughout the game, for example with crafting guilds, where these scrolls are beneficial, and limiting acquisition by player level is not needed in this case.

This is a great change!

Regarding Scrolls of Empowerment:
We really do want to make the process of acquiring these scrolls more varied and more meaningful at a given end-game, but we also want the acquisition process to be appropriate to the level of the content. We'll be fixing a math error quickly discovered by the community regarding how we set tier limits on scrolls from Gondor, which makes them largely useless for Imbued items unless your character is on a Legendary World with a level cap below 115. We also intend to address a gap in available scrolls for solo landscape players at level caps 105, 115, and 120.
Here are our current 28.3 plans for Scrolls of Empowerment:

• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).
• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.
• The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.
• The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.

I do not completely agree with this tho. The reason behind this is probably to cap the legacy levels a certain level char can get but the differences are so miniscule between levels already, it will make zero difference, it's not really a good reason at all. All this will be is a nerf to the insane LI scroll grind and we cannot afford that.

Regarding Vendors for Threshold Raid Jewellery:
Yes, we will be adding those (with appropriate deed gating on barter), hopefully in time for 28.3.

Hopefully this vendor will be to switch jewel pieces around like tank jewel > dps jewel and vice versa. If you make this barter a full on ember buy barter then it will just remove all the need to actually play the instance more than once to begin with.

Regarding Guardians:
Class balance is an ongoing process. We know Guardians need some love. We won’t forget, but that isn’t in the cards for 28.3.

Thank you, finally some great news about guardians that we so needed. Now let's hope this will be an actual big update as guardian red and yellow lines need entire reworks, they are dead and do not work a single bit. Blue line can use some buffs but isn't in need of a big rework luckily.

[Unthariel]

First, I wanted to say thank you for all of the detailed and well-thought-out feedback we have been reading.

Regarding Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors:
We will be removing any max level limits on these tomes, but we do want to make the acquired tomes bind. So, after 28.3 Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors will be bound to account on acquire (no other changes). We recognize that there are significant reputation ‘grinds’ throughout the game, for example with crafting guilds, where these scrolls are beneficial, and limiting acquisition by player level is not needed in this case.

Regarding Scrolls of Empowerment:
We really do want to make the process of acquiring these scrolls more varied and more meaningful at a given end-game, but we also want the acquisition process to be appropriate to the level of the content. We'll be fixing a math error quickly discovered by the community regarding how we set tier limits on scrolls from Gondor, which makes them largely useless for Imbued items unless your character is on a Legendary World with a level cap below 115. We also intend to address a gap in available scrolls for solo landscape players at level caps 105, 115, and 120.
Here are our current 28.3 plans for Scrolls of Empowerment:

• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).
• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.
• The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.
• The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.

Regarding Vendors for Threshold Raid Jewellery:
Yes, we will be adding those (with appropriate deed gating on barter), hopefully in time for 28.3.

Regarding Guardians:
Class balance is an ongoing process. We know Guardians need some love. We won’t forget, but that isn’t in the cards for 28.3.

That is a very good change.

Reputation tomes were by far the least thoughtful change and completely uncalled for, so it is good to see you backing up from this.

Tier-locking Gondor scrolls wasn't that bad since you can get ridiculous tons of them for Motes now anyway, and it makes no sense for lower level dailies to offer uncapped scrolls and therefore be more profitable than end-game content (safe for Throne, which is challenging enough to warrant uncapped scrolls), but this kind of tier-lock of Gondor scrolls should come with new scroll sources in higher level areas and tiers to which the scrolls are locked obviously shouldn't be lower than base tier you get by default, so again it is good to see that you are adding more sources.

I still suggest at least two things regarding scrolls:
-change Dol Amroth tier-lock from 44 to 52 or something like that, there should be no scrolls that are lower than base legacy tier you get by default, anywhere
-there are many reputation vendors that do not offer anything useful, for example the entire barter for Mark of Longbeards is completely useless and also the currency is capped to 500, so maybe consider adding Tier 79 scrolls there for 100 Marks of Longbeards, and similarly to some other "dead" barters, especially ones with capped currencies

[JH15547]

Also consider that MT is attractive because the scrolls to tokens ratio is generous. On dailies like Culverts or Strongholds, the regional tokens you receive are a drop in the bucket towards bartering for scrolls. So, only giving players 1 scroll a day/3 a week when they can't barter for any more within a reasonable timeframe with those regional tokens, it doesn't put players in a better situation.

Unbound untiered Scrolls are hard to replace if you don't consider the ratio and time invested. Consider how long it takes for some dailies to even unlock for a new player.

Moreover, as I said before: all these tiered-X scrolls are gonna be a nightmare for our already collapsed storages.

I don't disagree that the system is just getting more complex than it already was. But the uncapped scrolls should only be for the final leg. You still have all the Motes and Embers pathways as well to get scrolls.

[Lairlore]

I am still not happy.
I do not agree that empowerment scrolls earned from Minas Tirith and Dol Amroth should be tier capped.
Make them account bound too if need be. Will help a lot with alts.
Some of us like this content, some even need it due to soloing.
You gave us a system to gain scrolls, and now you want to take it away...
Sure give us new ways, but do not remove the old ways.

[Altair6]

Amazing what the application of the above will do.

Indeed. Still no real explanation as to why this change was needed at all. Just vague stuff about making it more varied and meaningful. (Meaningful? It's a game, not a life experience for crying out loud!). Note not more convenient and/or fun.

[Starstorm01]

First, I wanted to say thank you for all of the detailed and well-thought-out feedback we have been reading.

Regarding Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors:
We will be removing any max level limits on these tomes, but we do want to make the acquired tomes bind. So, after 28.3 Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors will be bound to account on acquire (no other changes). We recognize that there are significant reputation ‘grinds’ throughout the game, for example with crafting guilds, where these scrolls are beneficial, and limiting acquisition by player level is not needed in this case.

Regarding Scrolls of Empowerment:
We really do want to make the process of acquiring these scrolls more varied and more meaningful at a given end-game, but we also want the acquisition process to be appropriate to the level of the content. We'll be fixing a math error quickly discovered by the community regarding how we set tier limits on scrolls from Gondor, which makes them largely useless for Imbued items unless your character is on a Legendary World with a level cap below 115. We also intend to address a gap in available scrolls for solo landscape players at level caps 105, 115, and 120.
Here are our current 28.3 plans for Scrolls of Empowerment:

• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).
• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.
• The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.
• The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.

Regarding Vendors for Threshold Raid Jewellery:
Yes, we will be adding those (with appropriate deed gating on barter), hopefully in time for 28.3.

Regarding Guardians:
Class balance is an ongoing process. We know Guardians need some love. We won’t forget, but that isn’t in the cards for 28.3.

The time spent on discussing and making these changes should of been used to redesign or revamp the legendary weapon system from the horrible state it is in. There is nothing fun or legendary about that system.

[Baahb3]

Regarding Scrolls of Empowerment:
We really do want to make the process of acquiring these scrolls more varied and more meaningful at a given end-game, but we also want the acquisition process to be appropriate to the level of the content. We'll be fixing a math error quickly discovered by the community regarding how we set tier limits on scrolls from Gondor, which makes them largely useless for Imbued items unless your character is on a Legendary World with a level cap below 115. We also intend to address a gap in available scrolls for solo landscape players at level caps 105, 115, and 120.
Here are our current 28.3 plans for Scrolls of Empowerment:

• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).
• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.
• The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.
• The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.

While obviously better, this is still a pile of ####. Why put a cap on these at all? It is excellent that you are adding sources of scrolls at higher level, but let us CHOOSE how we want to farm them. You need what ~210 scrolls per LI item? I have 4 items on my RK, you do the math.

If we want to run MT till our eyes bleed on 130s, let us. If we want to run Vales and some harder content to also get rep and deeds, let us.

My point is that by adding max-tier levels, you are taking away that choice and making a long grind, more so and more complicated. Two things it does not need.

[Daec]

Looks like we have a TON of comments about the PVE changes but hardly any about the PvMP changes. I'm not sure if it was intended or not, but there doesn't seem to have been a significant nerf to creeps in any meaningful way. Comparing my rank 7 defiler on the test server to live, the biggest nerf I see is a 1% nerf to my mits. Everything else is .1% nerf at most. And Morale stayed the same. Vastin, are you sure the changes weren't supposed to be 10% but accidentally got 1% and .1% instead? I think the biggest problem with creeps right now are their mits, they are too high and extremely tough to kill without the correct group make up, see defiler for example. "t5 raid gear" will not help freeps kill creeps any faster, because even t1 geared freeps are at max mastery and crit. All t5 gear does is increase survivability of freeps, which is not the main problem freeps are having.

Based on what i've seen there has been around a 6% nerf to some corruptions, without changing corruptions that are slotted this amounts to about a 4% decrease in outgoing damage and 1-2% mits, not much else seems to have changed. I'm not sure what they consider "average" when comparing to freep gearing but perhaps if the AD vendor comes with 28.3 and its tied to the T3 deed like Remm was that should allow people to potentially start closing the gap but again the people generally struggling this update in the moors may not have that completed or want to pve to complete it, so its somewhat of a moot point

All in all, the creep changes are pretty minimal at this point unless they do another pass. I don't personally feel this will bring creeps more in line with where the majority of freeps are at and is currently little more than lip service. However as others have said its nice to see they can be fine-tuned instead of hitting everything with a hammer

It really depends on their vision and implementation of moors gear. For the sake of hoping a Dev sees it i've copy/pasted my suggestion from another thread below with some minor tweeks

Revert freep rank 1 audacity to 10% damage reduction
Make Moors gear (including jewelry, shields, OH weapons) 5-10% less stats than raid armor/jewelry. Factor set bonus stats into this as well (See jewelry sets)
Spread aud out over all pieces not just armor, if you really want to force compliance you can backload the audacity bonuses (ex: 1-20 aud may only give you a total of 15% dmg reduction but the last couple fill it out to 30%)
Set bonuses from 85 aud seem overall decent for most classes, start there and update/change as needed as a few of them are pretty lackluster/somewhat irrelevant but should provide a good starting point.
Essence slots should match raid equivalent.
Make pieces extremely cheap either via comms or gold
Allow trade up between level caps/as ilvl increases through updates. Like was done with 65 to 75.

[cscottf]

First, I wanted to say thank you for all of the detailed and well-thought-out feedback we have been reading.

Regarding Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors:
We will be removing any max level limits on these tomes, but we do want to make the acquired tomes bind. So, after 28.3 Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes bartered from skirmish vendors will be bound to account on acquire (no other changes). We recognize that there are significant reputation ‘grinds’ throughout the game, for example with crafting guilds, where these scrolls are beneficial, and limiting acquisition by player level is not needed in this case.

Regarding Scrolls of Empowerment:
We really do want to make the process of acquiring these scrolls more varied and more meaningful at a given end-game, but we also want the acquisition process to be appropriate to the level of the content. We'll be fixing a math error quickly discovered by the community regarding how we set tier limits on scrolls from Gondor, which makes them largely useless for Imbued items unless your character is on a Legendary World with a level cap below 115. We also intend to address a gap in available scrolls for solo landscape players at level caps 105, 115, and 120.
Here are our current 28.3 plans for Scrolls of Empowerment:

• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).
• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.
• The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.
• The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.

Regarding Vendors for Threshold Raid Jewellery:
Yes, we will be adding those (with appropriate deed gating on barter), hopefully in time for 28.3.

Regarding Guardians:
Class balance is an ongoing process. We know Guardians need some love. We won’t forget, but that isn’t in the cards for 28.3.

Tybur, Thank you for your response.

I thoroughly support lotro and the staff and feel that even the revised changes will make the game unplayable for me. There are so many moving pieces it is difficult to explain the effects of this unless you live it with consequences.

In summary, I assume these changes are being made for an unstated reasons and I do not see how these benefit the player base. They will make the game unplayable for those with alts as especially aria toons. The Minas Tirith empowerment system was working fine with no changes needed. Certain areas were skipped and people have no rep in these areas to enable them to get scrolls in those areas. people will have to play all content skipped. this is unacceptable, especially with alts. Please immediately stop any proposed changes to rep tomes and to empowerment scrolls.

1) Legendary items are critical to players past level 100 , depending on # of alts thousand and thousands of these scrolls are needed. In my case not counting the thousands I have already done i need 5000 more scrolls. This does not include multiple weapons for different lines. The scale of this effort is staggering and if you make it worse you make it impossible to finish alts. It was possible slowly running them through minas tirith as no more time needed to be wasted grinding rep and moving to other areas and they could be shared amongst alts and multiple alts could run per day.

2) All this changes now , we are supposed to have rep everywhere and move them around the map to slowly grind for bound scrolls in each area. Not including time spent grinding to get rep. it would take 83 days to grind to get 500 scrolls at 6 scolls per day. Alts now cant help a another alt gather scrolls, so if we want antoher line we grind slowly around the map for 83 days to finish more weapons and that is just the scrolls not the crystals.

2) Years ago we were forced to have trait trees. These trait trees require multiple legendaries per toon 2, 4 or 6 depending on how many lines you have so around 440 to 1320 scrolls per toon. Sheer practicality forced people not to be able to have weapons for all lines since they cannot get the scrolls or crystals. So in effect the skills and functionality we had before he trait tree were taken from us. We are not whole without three trait lies and optimized weapons . IMO.

3) Over time . many years we could get enough scrolls to equip our alts at Minas Tirith with only one rep tier hurdle to cover. We could save scrolls and help alts and help friends who couldn't grind due to time. This has been removed with your proposal.

4) For people with alts that owned content some of the toons were leveled to 120 and 130 by turning task items and only doing book quests or with Aria's. These people will not have rep in a given area to do the scroll grind. Meaning they will have to grind rep first. meaning they wont do it since they already have a full time job grinding end game content. Before alts that already ran content could pass scrolls along to new toons, no more.

5) The forcing of toons to go to different areas they skipped means you have essentially killed any incentive to have alts.

6) The mentioned ideas like epic battle and embers and motes are totally impractical for equipping a toon with hundreds of scrolls as are marks. There is not enough time in the world. Iwe already do not have time due to the current grind for items.

7) Given the current already staggering grind, I dont have time to even level a new alt much less pursue a new scroll system that will take infinitley more time since scrolls will be bound and rep needed etc. I cannot see any other option other that ceasing to level legendaries on current toons and abandoning new characters.I will be forced to play a few chars only and this is completely unacceptable to me.

8) I was on the verge on being able to cope before these proposed changes, I do not see a path forward now and am quickly losing all hope. Please either remove the need for the scrolls and crystals entirely ( there is already enough for us to grind for at end game ) or revamp the whole system or stop the proposed changes you are about to implement with scrolls of empowerment.

9) Rep tomes, making these bound to character or account helps us in no way and prevent us from help friends and family which have no marks this is a losing situation for the players.
I cannot support this.

10) Please stop immediately any proposed changes for the update and leave the current systemm in place in perpetuity unless it is made easier and faster and scrolls etc are unbound.

Thank you for your consideration. This situation is critical to the future of the game imo and the proposed changes may be very bad for everyone including the company. Reconsider please. There is much much more to say.

[Lakihlina]

Previously it was pretty easy to figure out my LI daily solo grind.

Dol Amroth (1-2 SoE)
Osgiliath sewers (2 SoE)
Minas Tirith (6-7 SoE)
= 65 SoE per week.

Basically 1 full tier per day for one LI.

I leveled to 120 while grinding Star-lit crystals during last two seasonal events (finally maxed out).
Because Minas Morgul was excluded from the expansion pack discount last time expansion content were on sale I do not have access to level 120+ content. I also do not have 3 peaks since I am not max level and got about 3 expansions worth of content I haven't seen yet.

My LI's are currently at tier 63 & 64.

With this patch my grind will be;
Northern Mirkwood
Restoring the three Kingdoms (twice a week)
Vales of Anduin
Protecting the Beornings (twice a week)
Protecting the Elves (twice a week)
Protecting the Woodmen (twice a week)

My LI's will cap out at 79/83 and I will have no way to advance them.

Am I missing something here? And how is this "more varied and more meaningful at a given end-game"?

[Nitak]

I have been here for a decade dedicated to the game. Closing my accountS after this annoucements. Bye to all my friends. I just don't appreciate this change.

[Oddessia]

Tybur,

Thank you for the response! Its heartening to know the team is listening.

You certainly can't please everyone and it seems that these changes are coming, whether tweaked or not. So Im going to be that person and say...Im sorry, Im still not satisfied. This (regardless of tweaks) is still a big nerf to scrolls we can get daily.

I can go along with the changes but I'd suggest increasing the daily reward on end game at least. As well I'll reserve final judgement for how other dailies will stack up until we see them in BR, because until then - we dont know how many you are adding as a daily reward. 1? 2? That's nowhere near enough to cover the hit we take from MT scrolls cap.

Tweaks or not its still more grindy - and that's my base issue. More grindy. On a grind that is already so insane I've stopped bothering to keep up. I just hope that the "revamp" that is still coming addresses this grind in a way that makes these changes sensical. Because to me, they still aren't. I'm very appreciative of the feedback and response from you guys, but remain deflated that this is happening at all.

It's like giving us a shiny nice bike (lotro) and as we ride off into enjoyment with it you then jam a stick in our wheel and send us crashing into the pavement. But then you come over with bandages and pain killers so "its not so bad." This may soothe some people but why not just NOT jam the freaking stick in our wheel to begin with?

Opinions aside these tweaks have raised more questions:
1) As many others have pointed out, there are many gaps in the proposed list of when/where a scroll is capped. Many gaps. Will all these holes be addressed and thoroughly thought out before implementation?

2) The token barter amount on some of these are high, you have to do dailies multiple days to barter for even 1. Will the currency ratio be tweaked?

3) Daily quests in most areas are locked behind completion of almost the entire zone's quests. What about Valared players? They now have to quest through the entirety of each zone, that they paid to skip...to open up dailies?

My final point is another echoed already many times - yes there are lots of ways to get SOE's you listed them off yourself. Almost all of which require group play. I know a looootttt of players that detest grouping and refuse to do it. They will run around with far substandard LIs over being forced to group. So I'd suggest tweaking some reward numbers and looking at some options to add a better source or two for them. (Which I did see you mention so that's great.)

I'm really looking forward to seeing the numbers come down on BR, so we can really nail down just how many SOEs these dailies will give overall for time spent. Keep in mind that while adding SOE rewards to dailies is good - if it requires us to run around 6 different zones to do their dailies every day, at 2 hours a pop per toon however...that's NOT worth it, not time well spent and not an improvement in any regard.

Slightly less deflated,

Ods

[Pewpewmidget]

I am glad that they are deciding not to level-gate rep accelerators, HOWEVER, this bind an acquire and bound to account on acquire #### needs to stop.
There is literally no reason why to put a rank cap on scrolls of empowerment regardless where you get them from.
AND I also noticed how everyone seemed to forget about the rep tokens being quest-gated. Please scrap that proposal.
We asked from time to time over the years just to add scroll barters to each region's currency from Dol Amroth and beyond.
NO RANK CAPS!

On another note, do what you want with the Elderslades daily/weekly quests, almost no one will do them simply because they lack rewards that are actually useful and they take too long.
2 Scrolls of Empowerment per daily hardly is something to be excited about and want to slog all over the battlefields. Giving 3 more scrolls on top of that for the weekly wrapper doesn't make it any better.

While y'all are thanking them, mainly for scrapping the level-gating of rep accelerators, keep in mind that they are trying to fix something that is not broken.
If it is not broken, don't try to fix it.
I could think of lots of other things they could have asserted their attention to other than nerfing scrolls and piling on requirements.
LOTRO has tons of bugs. LIs are a freaking mess. Legacy imbalance. Tanking on warden, guardian and champion are run down. Tons of sloppy surfaces that make peoples' eyes hurt.
I can go on and on but guess what SSG's attention is set on? Rank capping scrolls and quest-gating rep tokens. Sad.

[Strider5548]

We have indeed seen extensive feedback on the Warden. And we have not forgotten Rune-Keepers either :-). However, it can only help us when we do go to make changes, to have detailed / consolidated feedback. We do read the class sub-forums as well as these preview threads searching for class feedback. We also read the General Discussion and Feedback forum of course, but it is easier for specific feedback to get lost / buried there.

This is great, thank you for the acknowledgement, seriously, one of the biggest frustrations from Wardens has been the uncertainty of whether or not SSG recognizes there is a serious problem, so hearing it from you is a great first step.

I will do my part to try to consolidate the feedback around the forums and present them in a unified thread within either the class or BR forums where they will not get buried among unrelated topics.

Thank you again.

[Theozor]

No matter how nicely worded, these latest changes are still a huge nerf, and still won't make me any more likely to bother with alts or go VIP again. We're still getting shafted when it comes to ILIs that aren't already maxed out. Well I for one won't be spending money in the store or buying a massively overpriced quest pack just to cap ILIs.

[Wargoat]

Anfalas Scrolls of Empowerment (without tier caps) will continue to be available from a variety of level scaling and group content sources such as Featured Instances, Epic Battles barter, Skirmish camp barter, PvMP barter, Gift Giver's Brand barter, and many our our three and six player Instance chests as well as Raid chests.

Tybur, these changes are very fair compromise over the original plan. thank you.

[Mirhaen]

Anfalas Scrolls of Empowerment (without tier caps) will continue to be available from a variety of level scaling and group content sources such as Featured Instances, Epic Battles barter, Skirmish camp barter, PvMP barter, Gift Giver's Brand barter, and many our our three and six player Instance chests as well as Raid chests.

Sorry but big NOPE.

Drop rate from instances is an absolute joke. Epic battles and skirm camp barter are overpriced, especially first one. Gift giver brands are random drop, and not everyone play in Moors.

It looks to me that none of you have an idea or understand the job involved on maxing legendary items. I am asking of you not to make any changes as you haven't come up so far with anything good.

We are getting more and more restrictions as we go, and more and more grind that slowly but surely sucked up all fun and joy. I have been VIP for years now and I have bought with real money every single content in the game, and yet I am barred from that content for any practical future purposes.

Have you consider that people on end level are still making new legendary items for secondary builds, sometimes because we want, and sometimes because we even must, every time some class went into the drain. And not to mention Valared alts. The time and work involved in maxing LIs is staggering and we need more ways to do it, not less! Mind boggling decision...

[RosieLass]

Opinions aside these tweaks have raised more questions:
1) As many others have pointed out, there are many gaps in the proposed list of when/where a scroll is capped. Many gaps. Will all these holes be addressed and thoroughly thought out before implementation?

2) The token barter amount on some of these are high, you have to do dailies multiple days to barter for even 1. Will the currency ratio be tweaked?

3) Daily quests in most areas are locked behind completion of almost the entire zone's quests. What about Valared players? They now have to quest through the entirety of each zone, that they paid to skip...to open up dailies?

My final point is another echoed already many times - yes there are lots of ways to get SOE's you listed them off yourself. Almost all of which require group play. I know a looootttt of players that detest grouping and refuse to do it. They will run around with far substandard LIs over being forced to group. So I'd suggest tweaking some reward numbers and looking at some options to add a better source or two for them. (Which I did see you mention so that's great.)
Ods

I agree with everything Oddessia said, and particularly the quoted bit.

Getting scrolls is already a full-time job, and I have a *real* full-time job, too. I don't have hours a day to do multiple dailies in multiple areas for a measly handful of scrolls, when I need hundreds of them. Never mind spending days/weeks getting rep/doing quests to open the stupid dailies to start with. And that's just for one weapon and one class item for ONE character. I have alts, but I might as well delete them now, as I probably won't live long enough to get enough scrolls for all their LIs.

As for adding scrolls to the end game content, what's the point of that? If you don't already have your LIs capped by the time you get to the those areas, you're not going to get anywhere.

I want my old solo/alt friendly LOTRO back!

The only thing that would make these scroll caps palatable is to reduce the number we need by about 75%.

[Strider5548]

I agree with everything Oddessia said, and particularly the quoted bit.

Getting scrolls is already a full-time job, and I have a *real* full-time job, too. I don't have hours a day to do multiple dailies in multiple areas for a measly handful of scrolls, when I need hundreds of them. Never mind spending days/weeks getting rep/doing quests to open the stupid dailies to start with. And that's just for one weapon and one class item for ONE character. I have alts, but I might as well delete them now, as I probably won't live long enough to get enough scrolls for all their LIs.

As for adding scrolls to the end game content, what's the point of that? If you don't already have your LIs capped by the time you get to the those areas, you're not going to get anywhere.

I want my old solo/alt friendly LOTRO back!

The only thing that would make these scroll caps palatable is to reduce the number we need by about 75%.

I actually don't think the scrolls grind is that bad. Honestly, if you do a full throne run in a 6 person group (very doable) you can rack up a ton of scrolls each week. On top of that, you can use embers to get up to L74, if you have alts (which it sounds like you do) you can run T1 stair every day for 300-600 embers per alt, that's 3-6 scrolls for 10-15 min of work per character.

I think applying scrolls to your LI is the real crime here, it takes me longer to apply them than to earn them.

For those still doing MT dailies, there are far better ways to earn scrolls. 3-man Rako's are not very hard with the current stats we have, that's like 5 minutes of work to get 28 ithil coins (i'm forgetting exactly how much)? but that's almost 10 scrolls right there.

[Sooule]

you can run T1 stair every day for 300-600 embers per alt, that's 3-6 scrolls for 10-15 min of work per character.

....

For those still doing MT dailies, there are far better ways to earn scrolls

But the numbers you're giving vary, its not a constant or a guarantee. You could get 6 scrolls, but you'll probably get 4 or less. Yet on a capped toon, the MT dailies probably take 15-20 minutes tops and its a guaranteed 6 or 7 scrolls.

[Strider5548]

But the numbers you're giving vary, its not a constant or a guarantee. You could get 6 scrolls, but you'll probably get 4 or less. Yet on a capped toon, the MT dailies probably take 15-20 minutes tops and its a guaranteed 6 or 7 scrolls.

That's fair, but to me MT dailies feel like they take a lot longer. The lag in MT, the game constantly crashing, having to run out on a Warsteed with all the choppy rubberbanding...you are probably right about 15-20 minutes but for me it feels more like 45. Stairs runs on T1 feel significantly faster.