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  1. #1

    Challenge Mode Server

    We really need a separate server similar to what has been done with Anor and Ithil, but with adjustment made to reduce the damage that players can generate.

    Lots of us have tried crazy stuff to make the game more challenging;
    -- Playing Naked (no gear)
    -- No Landscape quests allowed

    And there are others that are being tried.

    But so far, after a bit (30 levels or so) we can figure out ways to still be INVINCIBLE.

    Lets imagine that we cut our generated damage in half or by some other increment.
    That might not be too challenging of a coding issue.
    Rather than modifying the game, we just modify how much damage a player-character can generate.

    A VIP only server.
    We get a tattoo (or something) that cuts DPS and Healing and all the other stuff we can do by 50%.
    Maybe that's the wrong number…but that kind of an adjustment might work to help those of us that feel the game has become just too easy.

    Edit Feb, 06, 2021: Since it is highly doubtful that such a server will be created I have created a sort of Guide to do-it-yourself: The Boraxxe Challenge Mode Guide
    Last edited by Boraxxe; Feb 06 2021 at 04:49 PM.

    Like I told you...What I said...Steal your face right off your head.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    6,406
    How about just a debuff potion that can be obtained via instant VIP-only quest from the same NPC that gives the crafting/no damage potion? Drink the potion and you get 48 hour debuff at a level that's 10 more than the current level cap so it can't be dispelled. Debuff is a straight -50% damage and healing and whatever else you deem appropriate. Maybe even offer several flavors of debuff potion such as -25%, -33%, and -50% as well as an "Oh Sugar! I took the wrong one" debuff removal potion.

    A bit cheaper to implement than an entire server.
    The Lag is so bad I saw Sara Oakheart outrun someone - kickman77

    Cener, Ingo, Rilibald, Hesred, Halras, Belegthelion, Ingoror, Gloringo
    Arkenstone (ex-Elendilmir) - The Osgiliath Guard - http://www.theoldergamers.com

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Boraxxe View Post
    We really need a separate server similar to what has been done with Anor and Ithil, but with adjustment made to reduce the damage that players can generate.

    Lots of us have tried crazy stuff to make the game more challenging;
    -- Playing Naked (no gear)
    -- No Landscape quests allowed

    And there are others that are being tried.

    But so far, after a bit (30 levels or so) we can figure out ways to still be INVINCIBLE.

    Lets imagine that we cut our generated damage in half or by some other increment.
    That might not be too challenging of a coding issue.
    Rather than modifying the game, we just modify how much damage a player-character can generate.

    A VIP only server.
    We get a tattoo (or something) that cuts DPS and Healing and all the other stuff we can do by 50%.
    Maybe that's the wrong number…but that kind of an adjustment might work to help those of us that feel the game has become just too easy.
    I dont think this will actually work. Just look at Anor/Ithil, people couldn't do half the challenge content because its "too hard." I applaud your attempt at trying to make this a thing, but the rest of the player base just won't let it.

    Mirage
    Arkenstone | Anor


  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Rimenuir View Post
    I dont think this will actually work. Just look at Anor/Ithil, people couldn't do half the challenge content because its "too hard." I applaud your attempt at trying to make this a thing, but the rest of the player base just won't let it.
    I don't know. I'm pretty much as pro-casual as you can be and I support this idea. I could see it making the regular servers more casual friendly - to the point where average pugs could do the raids.

  5. #5
    It is really a shame they couldn't do a real vanilla server because I think what you are after is how the game was in the start.
    Properly slow to level and you had to think about every engagement even the most benign of landscape areas as well.

    If you pulled even two mobs sometimes you were hightailing your ### out of there as quickly as your little hobbit legs could carry you. It was very very common to see an elf or man running past you followed by a couple of mobs who would then a few seconds later come zooming back past you once they had run them off

    The issue with it is that they probably haven't got a copy of the original Shadows of Angmar and they have also spoken about if they did it would be far too much work to make it safe security wise to play and also all the years of bugs they have ironed out would make it completely alien to anyone who wasn't playing at the time.

    It was fun though... and also frustrating... I seem to remember on one character it taking weeks to level from 44 to 45 to be able to play the Eregion instances and I played every night. The level curve was brutal and there was never enough quests in the zone you were playing and so would have to jump around the map.... remember there was no missions or skirmishes... grinding was fighting mobs on landscape for small amounts of xp....
    WHY DO PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE LEAST, KNOW IT THE LOUDEST?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TearMaker View Post
    ...snip...
    If you pulled even two mobs sometimes you were hightailing your ### out of there as quickly as your little hobbit legs could carry you. It was very very common to see an elf or man running past you followed by a couple of mobs who would then a few seconds later come zooming back past you once they had run them off
    ...snip...
    It was fun though... and also frustrating... I seem to remember on one character it taking weeks to level from 44 to 45 to be able to play the Eregion instances and I played every night. The level curve was brutal and there was never enough quests in the zone you were playing and so would have to jump around the map.... remember there was no missions or skirmishes... grinding was fighting mobs on landscape for small amounts of xp....
    Yes.
    My wife and I just a few days back created new characters on the Anor server with a twist; No Landscape quests.
    All the others would be OK, but we mainly wanted to just do the Epic line.

    Here is a screeny of my completed quest list:



    No landscape quests at all.
    The result?
    We got to Vol. 1, Book 2, Chapt. 13.
    This gives you an option to do it Solo or as a Fellowship.
    We decided to risk it and go for the Fellowship version even though there was just the two of us. And it was 3 and 4 Levels above us respectively. (Red and Orange).
    That result: we were invincible. Finished it and neither of us saw our Morale bar even get down to 50%.

    Since we spent no time doing any Landscape quests, we spent all our time Crafting (Tailor and Jeweler) and Deeding (Slayer and Class).
    You have to level somehow or the Epics won't let you in.
    We truly walked through that Chapter like it was a cakewalk.

    It has become too easy. And making up fake handicaps just doesn't cut it. The mobs are too wimpy.
    I can just stand in combat with a orange mob, out of auto-attack and just keep clicking on a skill like Dust in the Eyes, or Reveal Weakness, or Addle, not do any damage at all and my auto-healing keeps me alive. Occasionally I would drink an Athelas Potion and it was enough to keep it going and finish up my skill-quota.

    The mobs are just too wimpy to compete with all the advantages we have now.

    I don't want to have to do bozo-stuff to "make" it difficult.
    I want it to BE difficult, or at least challenging.

    Like I told you...What I said...Steal your face right off your head.

  7. #7

    Might as well dream...

    Well, it has become obvious that this idea about a "Challenge Server" is going nowhere, just like all the other similar ideas about Hard-mode servers.

    But, since I started this space I might as well dump a few other un-achievable dreams into the bucket.

    I was thinking about what it was like back-in-the-day when we didn't have the geography memorized.
    We usta' get lost.
    No kidding, we did. The maps were much less detailed and some zones were downright mysteries.
    Now, getting from Thorin's Hall to Erebor, or Mordor is no more challenging that a few mouse clicks.
    So...
    Get rid of the maps. And the long-range insta-travel.
    And if that were to be done, we would also have to get rid of the plugins because a few of the more popular plugins involve mapping.

    So far I have suggested:

    1. Reducing player damage by something like 50%. (increase danger)
    2. Eliminating the Game Map. (create the possibility of getting lost) (but of course, we have the internet, so we can never really get rid of maps)
    3. Eliminating plugins. (reducing convenience)
    4. Eliminating long-range travel. (force planning)

    All of those ideas are things that can be done with relatively simple coding challenges. The Travel thing could be a bit tricky though.
    I also think it could be interesting if only one character per player were allowed. That would force focus.

    The questions are:
    1. Are there enough danger-seekers out there to fund this craziness?
    2. How do those danger-seekers pay for this?
    3. Is there some other business-philosophy or fear that gets in the way?

    We could go the route of the mini-expansion and have a one-time charge (in addition to a subscription requirement) for purchasing the right to play on this server. If it were presented as as sort of expansion then even the Lifers would need to pay that one-time charge (but not the subscription).

    If there was money in it I suppose it would have been done by now.

    Ok, done dreaming....

    Like I told you...What I said...Steal your face right off your head.

  8. #8
    Has a dev ever posted what is and isnt possible from a tech perspective for challenge or other types of server? Knowing what is and isnt possible may be a good way for the community to define what a new server ruleset might look like.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    180
    One thing I do miss is the Fog of War on the maps.

    It felt exciting to be going into a new area and not have a clue where you were or how to get to your destination.

  10. #10
    "So far I have suggested:

    1. Reducing player damage by something like 50%. (increase danger)
    2. Eliminating the Game Map. (create the possibility of getting lost) (but of course, we have the internet, so we can never really get rid of maps)
    3. Eliminating plugins. (reducing convenience)
    4. Eliminating long-range travel. (force planning)"

    All of which individually you can do to your own experience but you want everyone to be forced to experience the world your way.

    1. Equip a poor weapon.
    2. Unmap the map key or don't use it.
    3. Don't use them. I don't for most play.
    4. My last char is premium and has to pay for stable rides. So, he uses it very, very sparingly. He has a horse and one return location with a hour retry.

    Good enough?


    As far as the map, I can't remove the knowledge from my mind so most of the thrill is gone.

    I guess I can equip a level 40 weapon and armor in elderslade and try it out. See if it's fun.

    Followup: Level 42 green crafted weapon on level 130 champion with 200% mastery = 18% of original damage, no legacies so that hurts output even more. So, you can tailor your damage output based on what you equip. Haven't tried it on 130 mobs yet.

    Ok, took ~20 hits to kill a 175k goat. Strangely, the first hit seems to be a big damage one and the rest are smaller. Nothing like dealing 283 points of damage on a hit with a level 130 teal equipped champ.
    Last edited by JERH; Jan 04 2021 at 11:01 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,503
    OP - you might try to do what more than a few of us have done. Play "hardcore" or "permadeath". Not through a special ruleset server but just with a bit of willpower. If a character dies other than as the result of a crash or major bug - delete it and start over.

    Getting to level-cap without ever miscalculating a fight badly, pulling extra mobs by mistake, getting stunned *just* as you were about to use your "oh ####" ability, etc. is not a trivial exercise at all and almost any fight will be more interesting if a bad result can send you back to the character creating screen.

    If you are a VIP - create a new account with no VIP benefits and no veteran rewards. Never upgrade to Premium. This too will be slower and more challenging.

    SSG - a permanent challenge server probably will not generate enough long-term interest. Special servers tend in many games to be popular at first and then die out as the excitement of something different wanes. So instead of having this known fact apply as a negative - use it as a positive.

    Create special temporary servers with e.g. a 90 day or 6 month lifetime. Have some special challenge such as a "hardcore" ruleset or no rapid travel or 50% xp gain or tougher mobs or .....

    Have a contest e.g. the 10 or 100 characters to level-cap with the lowest time /played win. Time /played not real time so that people with lives can compete.

    The reward, of course, would be some nice item or items (unique mount or cosmetics or valar or whatever) for one of the real characters on the same account on a permanent server.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,522
    What's the difference between a challenge mode server, or a 50% damage debuff and just... Equipping weapons from 50 levels ago? Your DPS will take a massive hit, you'll need 5 minutes to kill landscape mobs on-level and will promptly be bored as hell.

    Would would be marginally more fun would be a challenge mode server whereby the enemy population is quadrupled or more, and enemies are added to extra locations kind of like the new WotTP map, that would make things a real challenge in some cases whilst not feeling like you're fighting with a wet paper bag and not hurting the enemy.

    That said, it'll never happen, let's face it, 99% of people don't want a challenge, they want to steamroll content and win almost effortlessly.. Hell, many people post on the forums complaining the normal game is too hard, they deliberately made the Mordor zone release much more difficult (and without LoE it was, to an extent) and then after a few weeks of complaint, totally undid everything and made it stupidly easy, just like every other zone, because super-casuals were struggling.

    Back in the day, Moria even used to be a real challenge, no classes had self heals to speak of, DPS was 1/5, our morale pools were tiny and Moria was pitch dark with no handy-dandy fences stopping you falling off a cliff, solo questing Moria 10 years ago was a legit challenge, the game has entirely lost that now, my Champ cuts down normal enemies with single skills and can blend 20 mobs into paste in seconds. Again, back in the day a Signature 1v1 was going to be a fight that'd require a little fore-thought and an Elite was going to take everything you had or need friends, Elite Masters were a no-go-zone without a group or heals and patience...

  13. #13
    Wasn't there something similar @ DDO? And the Sauron's Eye server seemed to be a first idea for "more challenge" aswell.

    But either way I will not participate in new shiny "experiments" again. The Legendary servers were enough of wastet time and money.
    I miss the old times too, but they are gone. And it isn't a LOTRO only phenomenon. Most games are hella easy nowadays, unless you play Soulslike games or stuff like that.

    Maybe the future will bring you a token in the shop, that magically makes everything harder, right after the "good class-balance scroll" and the "better server-performance stone" ... who knows ...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    14,066
    Quote Originally Posted by Rimenuir View Post
    I dont think this will actually work. Just look at Anor/Ithil, people couldn't do half the challenge content because its "too hard." I applaud your attempt at trying to make this a thing, but the rest of the player base just won't let it.
    I'm all for it, even though I won't play it. I don't sub anymore and have no intention of changing that until they change the subscription to be worthwhile. Doesn't mean that I won't support an idea that others want or suggest though.

    I think a challenge server is a very good idea. We have a lot of players that want more challenge, so, hopefully they'll get it.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by JERH View Post
    "So far I have suggested:

    1. Reducing player damage by something like 50%. (increase danger)
    2. Eliminating the Game Map. (create the possibility of getting lost) (but of course, we have the internet, so we can never really get rid of maps)
    3. Eliminating plugins. (reducing convenience)
    4. Eliminating long-range travel. (force planning)"

    All of which individually you can do to your own experience but you want everyone to be forced to experience the world your way.

    1. Equip a poor weapon.
    2. Unmap the map key or don't use it.
    3. Don't use them. I don't for most play.
    4. My last char is premium and has to pay for stable rides. So, he uses it very, very sparingly. He has a horse and one return location with a hour retry.

    Good enough?

    As far as the map, I can't remove the knowledge from my mind so most of the thrill is gone.

    I guess I can equip a level 40 weapon and armor in elderslade and try it out. See if it's fun.

    Followup: Level 42 green crafted weapon on level 130 champion with 200% mastery = 18% of original damage, no legacies so that hurts output even more. So, you can tailor your damage output based on what you equip. Haven't tried it on 130 mobs yet.

    Ok, took ~20 hits to kill a 175k goat. Strangely, the first hit seems to be a big damage one and the rest are smaller. Nothing like dealing 283 points of damage on a hit with a level 130 teal equipped champ.
    OK JERH, I am considering taking you up on this challenge.

    Since I will probably never see a Challenge Mode Server


    The Boraxxe Challenge Mode Rules

    Here are the No and Yes lists:

    NO Items:
    1. No Landscape Quests
    2. No Festival Quests
    3. No Map
    4. No Radar
    5. No Quest Rings
    6. No Armor
    7. No Jewellery
    8. No Skirmishes
    9. No Crafted Weapons (drops are OK)
    10. No Legendary Items

    So, what we are left with is:

    YES Items:
    1. Epic Quests
    2. Class Quests
    3. Racial Quests
    4. Introduction Quests
    5. Task Quests
    6. Special Quests
    7. Deeds
    8. Auction Hall
    9. Consumables
    10. Any kind of "fast" travel (Return-to skills, etc.)

    And what about the Auction Hall?
    Should I be able to buy and sell anything?
    Yeah. Gotta make Gold somehow. Just no equipping of the items in the NO list.

    Could such an obsessive bunch of restrictions still allow a character to get to:
    Level 30?
    Level 50?
    Level 100?

    How "slow" would this be? Of course a "new" player would never play this way, but I have been at this since 2007 with no extended breaks.
    Do I have the memory (no map...gonna be interesting) to actually play a viable character when restricted like this?

    We shall see. I plan to roll him up tonight and give him at least an hour every day that I play. And, I plan to do this solo, with no help from alts or kinnies.

    Watch this space.....

    Like I told you...What I said...Steal your face right off your head.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Boraxxe View Post

    We shall see. I plan to roll him up tonight and give him at least an hour every day that I play. And, I plan to do this solo, with no help from alts or kinnies.

    Watch this space.....
    The most important part of this post, imo. I don't think I could handle rolling yet another new alt right now

    ...when in doubt...twirl...
    Crickhollow: Wisa/Weesa, Elvisa/Elvysa and many other Elv's, Reaboj, Sunberry,Altheah, Ooma's and some others. Landroval: Starberry, Sunnberry, Burraberry, Sugarree, Magnolia, and a bunch of others too. Anor: Elviska, Wisa, Elvisa, and more. Laurelin:Sunberry, Wisaberry, Elvisa Gwaihir:Sunberry

  17. #17
    Well after about 3 hours I decided to finally call it a night.
    Got to L8 and after retreating twice trying to accomplish a Prologue Quest I decided to give it a rest. It took longer than I expected.
    Probably because when you are a Founder and you create a new character you find your bags full of "Gifts".
    And almost all of these gifts are against the "rools". So I trashed most of it and kept a few things.

    It is definitely more difficult, but also, definitely more fun.

    I chose:
    -Stout Axe Dwarf
    -Burglar
    -Redline
    -Scholar

    And I made it through the Intro feeling invincible, as usual, (that's supposed to be easy to teach you how to play).
    Then after completing 5 quests into the Epic Vol 1 Prologue, I "retreated" 2 times in a row trying to get the stolen gold.
    I am starting to really appreciate the low-level food and low-level Morale Pots and low-level anything to get some kind of edge.

    The Radar (or mini-map) cannot be eliminated, but it can be shrunk...down to the size of a dime.
    But I bow to defeat. I need it to help with direction on quests. Without the MAP and with no Quest Rings it is difficult to figure out where to go.
    The quest-text is a bit vague at times, so I will admit that this is a necessity.
    I ran past my objective 3 times. The little white-triangle-thingy helps get you close enough to figure out that you are within a few yards of where you need to be.
    So that gets scratched off. I brought it back up to the size of a silver dollar. Big enough to make out which way to go.

    I have done this kind of thing before;
    -Naked adventuring (no gear).
    -No Landscape Quests. (This one is going strong at L29 and looking promising, but sheesh...we are truly invincible).
    Those experiments actually ended up creating quite powerful characters, and things once again became "too easy".

    This may work but, (speaking of work) it's a lot of work.

    I am playing on the Crickhollow server because on Anor, the low-level items on the AH are really rare.
    And I need some of those low-level items.

    So, it's Epics and Deeds...my bread-and-butter.

    Tomorrow is another day and we'll see how it goes.



    Quote Originally Posted by Boraxxe View Post

    NO Items:
    1. No Landscape Quests
    2. No Festival Quests
    3. No Map
    4. No Radar - Nope, never mind...this comes back.
    5. No Quest Rings
    6. No Armor
    7. No Jewellery
    8. No Skirmishes
    9. No Crafted Weapons (drops are OK)
    10. No Legendary Items

    I'm curious why I can't get my cosmetic gloves to show up...some kind of bug? Oh well, I have other things to worry about.
    Last edited by Boraxxe; Jan 06 2021 at 04:06 AM.

    Like I told you...What I said...Steal your face right off your head.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by istvana View Post
    ... snip ...

    Create special temporary servers with e.g. a 90 day or 6 month lifetime. Have some special challenge such as a "hardcore" ruleset or no rapid travel or 50% xp gain or tougher mobs or .....

    Have a contest e.g. the 10 or 100 characters to level-cap with the lowest time /played win. Time /played not real time so that people with lives can compete.

    The reward, of course, would be some nice item or items (unique mount or cosmetics or valar or whatever) for one of the real characters on the same account on a permanent server.
    Those are some fine ideas. Fine.

    Like I told you...What I said...Steal your face right off your head.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    14,066
    Quote Originally Posted by Boraxxe View Post
    Well after about 3 hours I decided to finally call it a night.
    Got to L8 and after retreating twice trying to accomplish a Prologue Quest I decided to give it a rest. It took longer than I expected.
    Probably because when you are a Founder and you create a new character you find your bags full of "Gifts".
    And almost all of these gifts are against the "rools". So I trashed most of it and kept a few things.

    It is definitely more difficult, but also, definitely more fun.

    I chose:
    -Stout Axe Dwarf
    -Burglar
    -Redline
    -Scholar

    And I made it through the Intro feeling invincible, as usual, (that's supposed to be easy to teach you how to play).
    Then after completing 5 quests into the Epic Vol 1 Prologue, I "retreated" 2 times in a row trying to get the stolen gold.
    I am starting to really appreciate the low-level food and low-level Morale Pots and low-level anything to get some kind of edge.

    The Radar (or mini-map) cannot be eliminated, but it can be shrunk...down to the size of a dime.
    But I bow to defeat. I need it to help with direction on quests. Without the MAP and with no Quest Rings it is difficult to figure out where to go.
    The quest-text is a bit vague at times, so I will admit that this is a necessity.
    I ran past my objective 3 times. The little white-triangle-thingy helps get you close enough to figure out that you are within a few yards of where you need to be.
    So that gets scratched off. I brought it back up to the size of a silver dollar. Big enough to make out which way to go.

    I have done this kind of thing before;
    -Naked adventuring (no gear).
    -No Landscape Quests. (This one is going strong at L29 and looking promising, but sheesh...we are truly invincible).
    Those experiments actually ended up creating quite powerful characters, and things once again became "too easy".

    This may work but, (speaking of work) it's a lot of work.

    I am playing on the Crickhollow server because on Anor, the low-level items on the AH are really rare.
    And I need some of those low-level items.

    So, it's Epics and Deeds...my bread-and-butter.

    Tomorrow is another day and we'll see how it goes.






    I'm curious why I can't get my cosmetic gloves to show up...some kind of bug? Oh well, I have other things to worry about.
    I was very tempted to try out your rules and join in with this. It looks like fun. Your update makes is sound a little less appealing, I must admit, but, I still may go with it.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  20. #20
    Well that's what I thought would happen. It's just tediously slow. Sort of like why I stopped playing my captain at level 29 for about 6 years. I have found with about 40 alts (23 > level 110) that I have gone through the content enough times to have the maps and locations mostly memorized. Also, IMHO, the key to success is not armor or jewelry but the weapon. What do you replace the experience from landscape quests with? Killing lots of mobs? That is one of the frustrating parts of my last alt (a beorning) who I had a hard time getting enough experience to level with no boosts available even with doing the landscape quests. Note that with the changes to low level from vastin during ered mithrin and forward that many drops are better than crafted. Specifically I noticed that enedwaith and bonevales green drops were same as or better than level 70 crafted teals.

    Good Luck! I personally think that once you get a weapon drop it will be quicker but still soooooooo tedious I would quickly abandon it. I also believe that it can certainly be done. The early LIs and legacies aren't really important anyway. Being a lazy person I would have chosen a champ (remorseless strike is way OP) or even easier an LM (pet can level you to 60 alone - then it gets tougher (ok, slower)). Maybe choosing a weak class is also one of your restrictions. I thought that there were early vendored weapons and drops that were somewhat better (at least green)? Also, my experience on the beorning is that the virtues can really boost stats by keeping up with deeding the 5 chosen virtues.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by JERH View Post
    Well that's what I thought would happen. It's just tediously slow. Sort of like why I stopped playing my captain at level 29 for about 6 years. I have found with about 40 alts (23 > level 110) that I have gone through the content enough times to have the maps and locations mostly memorized. Also, IMHO, the key to success is not armor or jewelry but the weapon. What do you replace the experience from landscape quests with? Killing lots of mobs? That is one of the frustrating parts of my last alt (a beorning) who I had a hard time getting enough experience to level with no boosts available even with doing the landscape quests. Note that with the changes to low level from vastin during ered mithrin and forward that many drops are better than crafted. Specifically I noticed that enedwaith and bonevales green drops were same as or better than level 70 crafted teals.

    Good Luck! I personally think that once you get a weapon drop it will be quicker but still soooooooo tedious I would quickly abandon it. I also believe that it can certainly be done. The early LIs and legacies aren't really important anyway. Being a lazy person I would have chosen a champ (remorseless strike is way OP) or even easier an LM (pet can level you to 60 alone - then it gets tougher (ok, slower)). Maybe choosing a weak class is also one of your restrictions. I thought that there were early vendored weapons and drops that were somewhat better (at least green)? Also, my experience on the beorning is that the virtues can really boost stats by keeping up with deeding the 5 chosen virtues.
    Slayer Deeds and combining that with Class-Skill Deeds (while using an accelerator) gets lots of XP and advances the Trait Points relatively fast. On Anor I have completed up to Tier 4 (worth 4 Trait Points) by L28. Instead of spending lots of time doing somewhat non-productive quests (kill ten rats, deliver the mail, save the chickens, etc.). Then when you start to out-level an area you can pick up all those Discovery/Explorer Deeds. That is gonna be challenging without the Map.
    I had forgotten that a lot of those "non-productive Landscape quests" get you to the areas that comprise most of the Explorer and Discovery Deeds to advance Virtues.

    I am glad I turned off the Quest Rings. When I have been doing this on Anor (No Landscape) those rings are mighty distracting (and tempting). I have become quite used to grabbing every quest I pass by. It's better to just not see them. But as I noted, it makes the mini-Map needed to help with direction.

    It will be fun to see how dazed and confused I get inside dungeons where we get sort of dependent on looking at the map to navigate...I'm thinking Moria will be a real test of my willpower.

    "not armor or jewelry, but the weapon" ? Tell that to the blue goblins that pounded me last night. Eating plain rations just doesn't cut it. 1v1, OK, 2v1, still doable, but when 3 of those boyos are pounding on you, it's time to run. This is what I remember from "the old days". This is the reason I am experimenting with this.

    Like I told you...What I said...Steal your face right off your head.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    2,962
    I'm fine with a challenge mode server, hell I'd probably even play on it.

    I appreciate the time you put into all these suggestions, I just don't think SSG will ever get to it. IMO it seems like they are OK with the L1-130 experience being uber easy mode. The grind to 130 really feels like a story mode game more than anything to me.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the content, and leveling in Eriador is one of my favorite parts about this game, but it's just not designed to be challenging and definitely not for 2 capable players. I'm not at all surprised that you and your wife ran a fellowship quest 4 levels above you and were still god mode. One capable player can crush most game instance on level or even above level, let alone two players.

    Balance and tuning is really only looked at for end game, and even there we have some massive issues *cough* tanking completely broken in this game *cough*, so I'm pessimistic about them ever getting to an idea like this.
    Erendil 50 Hunter Rank 7, Mavellen 45 Warden; Officers of Disciples
    Ragaroth Warleader Rank 7, Marhawk Stalker Rank 5; Members of Cuddle Squad
    Other Characters: Arthilius - Captain, Arthilias - Guardian,
    Claireth - Runekeeper, Harbuckle - Burglar, Lothlirien - Hunter

  23. #23
    Neat! Very interesting experiment!

    Rk. No armor or jewelry from intro or drops. Green runestone from half way through intro.

    Done with rath teraig exploration , spiders, goblins, and gondamon exploration. Level 13. No buffs or food or accelerators except run speed trinket. No use of potions. No deaths or even close. Multiple times with lots of mobs -> Circle strafe and prelude of hope kept me at > 50% hp even with the elite spider and 7 others on me at the same time. Not a problem. No quests outside of finishing intro. No horse not even the temp one. Probably be level 15 at the end of ered luin.

    Should be easily doable with any run-n-gun class like hunter, warden, rk, or mini.

    Dangerous? No.
    Tedious? Yes.
    Interesting? Yes.

    No reason to visit anything in the zone other than exploration or kill deeds. That seems sad.

    Still, it was interesting and would have been much harder with a melee class.

    From there I would proceed to dwarf and elf exploration deeds which leads to dourhand kill, then handroval kill, and finally ending up at the wolf kill deed that also ends elf exploration there.

    What about LP? Riding skill? Crafting tools? I didn’t use any but it was a question.

    Oh yes, no map. Memory was fine.
    Last edited by JERH; Jan 06 2021 at 06:51 PM.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by JERH View Post
    Neat! Very interesting experiment!

    Rk. No armor or jewelry from intro or drops. Green runestone from half way through intro.

    Done with rath teraig exploration , spiders, goblins, and gondamon exploration. Level 13. No buffs or food or accelerators except run speed trinket. No use of potions. No deaths or even close. Multiple times with lots of mobs -> Circle strafe and prelude of hope kept me at > 50% hp even with the elite spider and 7 others on me at the same time. Not a problem. No quests outside of finishing intro. No horse not even the temp one. Probably be level 15 at the end of ered luin.

    Should be easily doable with any run-n-gun class like hunter, warden, rk, or mini.

    Dangerous? No.
    Tedious? Yes.
    Interesting? Yes.

    No reason to visit anything in the zone other than exploration or kill deeds. That seems sad.

    Still, it was interesting and would have been much harder with a melee class.

    From there I would proceed to dwarf and elf exploration deeds which leads to dourhand kill, then handroval kill, and finally ending up at the wolf kill deed that also ends elf exploration there.

    What about LP? Riding skill? Crafting tools? I didn’t use any but it was a question.

    Oh yes, no map. Memory was fine.
    Welcome to Lotro without the training-wheels!
    Glad you are having fun.

    Riding skill: being a Founder, I get a "gift" Bree Pony...only 32% speed, but I don't need the Riding Skill. Low "gold" means I can't afford the Stable rentals. Need the silver for food and Morale pots. I have a couple of other "gift" horses but won't be looking them in the mouth for several levels. And I have about 25 "gifts" I just stuck in the Vault. Might be a couple more gift-horses in there.

    Crafting Tools: I had a spare set of the Universal ones that drop from Hobbit Presents.

    LP: I will be saving that up for Deed/Skill Accelerators. It will never be anything but a grind to take out 250, 300, whatevers. The lower level deeds aren't too bad at 30/60.

    Food: This is a favorite thing for me. I almost always have chosen Cook in the past. Working on Scholar this time. It's new to me, so more interesting stuff.

    Yes. It is more fun when you have to pay attention.

    Like I told you...What I said...Steal your face right off your head.

  25. #25
    You would think that they would seriously take a punt on employing a full time dev to seriously update the starter areas with the new Tolkien TV shows coming up soon.

    They really need to tidy up the flow through all the zones to Moria for a start. We don't need to lose anything but you could create at least 3 distinct paths that allow time for the epic to be played in full in or around level. Anybody who doesn't want to can take a quick path then there can be a medium path and finally a hard path.
    Depending on which path you choose dictates how much xp you receive and the xp curve.
    It cannot just be about XP though , there has to be a path to follow.

    And also because most of these zones are largely unaltered since the elder days, they need to get rid of the run here and back and then back again kind of quests out from the epic... they really suck and they can now, because we don't need to kill time in the same boring way, just say something like... send a message to Elrond and wait for a reply etc

    Just needs some REAL love ...

    It has to be worth the gamble and investment
    WHY DO PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE LEAST, KNOW IT THE LOUDEST?

 

 
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