Story of Gandalf substantially revised in Glory of the Bright Company

[DarthKeryx]

I chose not to post this in the Tolkien forum below b/c this is about how Tolkien lore is represented in the game.

I have several toons at 130 and yesterday was working on the Mordor Besieged epic quests with my Beorning. (Always do that *before* trying to tackle Mordor Besieged and Morgul regions. Mordor Besieged epic quests don't take terribly long and the gear rewards provide a huge boost in armor and stats.) This time I paid attention to the script/dialogue in the Glory of the Bright Company. After they confront Sauron and Lendelen the looks-like-an-elf-but-is-not breaks the Vandassar. Then collapses and is taken prisoner. So who or what *was* Lendelen is not an elf?

Gandalf/Mithrandir. I had not caught that before. So Gandalf/Mithrandir was *not* the first time the maia Olorin was sent to Middle Earth. At least according to the game.

I am not criticizing this. The game developers naturally have to expand on the material imported into the game from the mythology of Tolkien. However I was surprised. This might be the most radical revision of Tolkien material I have run across. I have not read every last book by Tolkien including the extra volumes prepared by his son Christopher. But I have read about as far as Peoples of Middle Earth (I or II?) and also Morgoth's Ring. So far as I know Tolkien never mentions Olorin being sent to Middle Earth *before* he shows up as Gandalf/Mithrandir.

Am I mistaken?

[Mirnir]

In the Silmarillion, it is mentioned that as the Maia Olórin, he walked among the Elves "unseen, or in form as one of them". That part at least is possible.
When it comes to Gandalf, the Istari essay in Unfinished Tales mentions that the wizards took on a 'real' body rather than a feigned appearance to intentionally restrict their true power, also "dimming their wisdom and knowledge", and "this the Valar did, desiring to amend the errors of old". What those errors are is not specified, but 'dimming their knowledge' doesn't really rule out the LOTRO story that the Valar had hidden the memory of the adventures of Lendelen from Gandalf.
I seem to remember hints that Olórin had been in Middle-earth in prior ages, but can't for the life of me find anything right now.

Overall, I can't really think of anything that would count as lore-breaking.

Personally, I've found Mordor Besieged to be one of the more interesting and enjoyable original storylines in the game, both for the Lendelen story and for the lore of the Vandassari themselves.

[Altair6]

Whilst I was a bit surprised at the revelation (I'd certainly had no hint from the books that Gandalf had been around then in any form) it was a lot less concerning than the shock I felt at running up Barad Dur, confronting all nine Ring Wraiths, and then, to top it all off, confronting Sauron himself. I think that was rather a step too far.

[DarthKeryx]

Overall, I can't really think of anything that would count as lore-breaking.

Personally, I've found Mordor Besieged to be one of the more interesting and enjoyable original storylines in the game, both for the Lendelen story and for the lore of the Vandassari themselves.

Thanks for the erudite reply. I have read the Silmarillion more times than I know (at least a dozen times although not in the last several years) and missed those details. Well done. I agree it's not lore breaking. I thought it was one of the more surprising departures from everything I have read (not ignoring your interesting reply).

I agree that Mordor Besieged and the confrontation with Sauron (!!!) - along with Minas Morgul - has been one of the best parts of the game.

[Phantion]

Whilst I was a bit surprised at the revelation (I'd certainly had no hint from the books that Gandalf had been around then in any form) it was a lot less concerning than the shock I felt at running up Barad Dur, confronting all nine Ring Wraiths, and then, to top it all off, confronting Sauron himself. I think that was rather a step too far.

I can see that and respect your opinion

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For me, and this just my own opinion, it helped that we really aren't "ourselves" when we go into Barad-dur and confront the Nine and Sauron; we technically are playing some ancient ally of Isildur's who was apparently pretty powerful. So, I could pretty much negate that issue for myself by remembering, "I am in the place of some powerful figure from the Second Age, 'remembering' what that person did," rather than my Third Age character's "self," if that makes sense.

The sequence actually does have a basis in the Lore, but it is more of a speculative approach about it. It has to do with a line of Gandalf's to Elrond in "The Ring Goes South" chapter when Elrond is deciding whether to allow Merry and Pippin to go with the Fellowship or have powerful High Elves of his household go instead. Gandalf speaks of "even if you chose an Elf-Lord like Glorfindel, he could not storm the Dark Tower with the power that is in him" (Tolkien, FR).

Well, plainly, the Story-Devs asked: Why not, Gandalf?

I find no issue with the concept- only nitpicking some of how it looked in-game. I find that the snippet from "The Ring Goes South" chapter is an interesting one and important one that the game did a good job interrogating: Why, Gandalf? Why was it not a good idea to just send Glorfindel and Gildor Inglorion with the Fellowship, even if they had low-key" concealed themselves if they had gone?

The Black Book Epic, in Mordor Besieged, supplies an answer: They tried it before with the Bright Company. The Bright Company sneaks into the Enemy's domain much as the Fellowship had tried to do with the Ring. The Bright Company, unlike Frodo and Sam, does the equivalent of marching in force, confronting the Enemy directly. It accomplished some things, like breaking the Vandassar, but the casualties were high; it didn't work so well... confronting all Nine and Sauron? Glorfindel and a whole troop of powerful super Noldor High Elves - could - do that from what we know about them in the Lore. But not with full success- thanks to the One Ring on Sauron's finger.

Frankly, that was one of my favorite instances in-game.

Cheers!