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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    Oh and do stop with the whole "SSG isn't capable of that" spiel. If you don't think SSG can reasonably balance classes then why bother commenting? It's just so self defeating.
    It's not spiel when it's the very apparent truth of the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaheer View Post
    I see the captain's class is in need of my help again. With this, I honestly did not even read what is being said before on this topic, but I can assume that we've already discussed this many times before.
    It's the same old rubbish from the same people, so you're correct

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    It's not spiel when it's the very apparent truth of the situation.
    Except it's not. Can SSG fix class balance in a single update? No. Could they do a decent job if they planned 2-3 years worth of changes? Yeah. Hell, even planning for one year of class work in advance would be a monumental improvement.

    Currently they aren't planning ahead at all, they kinda fiddle with things every now and again to shake up the meta but it doesn't seem like they have a concrete path to follow. They have shown that they can crank out a fairly large list of changes with pretty short notice if the Beorning/Guardian changes a few years back were anything to go by. They have the capacity to do it, they're just avoiding it where they can.

    They're basically putting out fires instead of arresting the guy holding the matches.
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

  3. #53
    Think we can close the topic here, no need to continue this endless loop of me repeating myself like some tape-recorder about how unfortunate the circumstances are for guard and warden.
    WhiteGoliath

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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaheer View Post
    Think we can close the topic here, no need to continue this endless loop of me repeating myself like some tape-recorder about how unfortunate the circumstances are for guard and warden.
    I'm sorry but you don't have any kind of final word here. You have a right to your own opinion, you have a right to voice that opinion and that opinion has a right to be judged upon its own merits. You do not however get to deny other people the right to voice their own opinions on the matter.

    The moderators may close the thread if it breaks any of the codes of conduct but since the thread has been pretty darn civil so far there's no real reason for that to occur. Forums are for discussion, try not to get upset when discussion happens.
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    I'm sorry but you don't have any kind of final word here. You have a right to your own opinion, you have a right to voice that opinion and that opinion has a right to be judged upon its own merits. You do not however get to deny other people the right to voice their own opinions on the matter.

    The moderators may close the thread if it breaks any of the codes of conduct but since the thread has been pretty darn civil so far there's no real reason for that to occur. Forums are for discussion, try not to get upset when discussion happens.
    I won't mind looping my tape recorder onto you if that is what it takes to cast you out.
    You can have your opinion but stating false claims you cannot. Which you do all the time, without looking at the surrounding circumstances. Trying desperately to take down a class who doesn't suffer from those circumstances, I've seen your motives and you cling to every comment that puts the captain in a negative daylight.

    No, you won't upset me, I may advise you to not get upset when I will run my same arguments over and over.
    WhiteGoliath

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    Except it's not. Can SSG fix class balance in a single update? No. Could they do a decent job if they planned 2-3 years worth of changes? Yeah. Hell, even planning for one year of class work in advance would be a monumental improvement.

    Currently they aren't planning ahead at all, they kinda fiddle with things every now and again to shake up the meta but it doesn't seem like they have a concrete path to follow. They have shown that they can crank out a fairly large list of changes with pretty short notice if the Beorning/Guardian changes a few years back were anything to go by. They have the capacity to do it, they're just avoiding it where they can.

    They're basically putting out fires instead of arresting the guy holding the matches.
    No they can't. In last stream Severlin clearly says what class fixes after every update never ending process and they can't make some balance what can stay for 2-3 years.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaheer View Post
    You can have your opinion but stating false claims you cannot. Which you do all the time, without looking at the surrounding circumstances. Trying desperately to take down a class who doesn't suffer from those circumstances, I've seen your motives and you cling to every comment that puts the captain in a negative daylight.

    No, you won't upset me, I may advise you to not get upset when I will run my same arguments over and over.
    https://imgur.com/tXl3g6Q

    ok

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmagor View Post
    No they can't. In last stream Severlin clearly says what class fixes after every update never ending process and they can't make some balance what can stay for 2-3 years.
    It'll always be a never ending process but that doesn't mean they can't develop a long term plan. Right now they don't really seem to have a concrete goal. If you don't know what the destination is you can't really take it one step at a time as you have no idea if you're even going in the right direction. As I said in that post "They're basically putting out fires instead of arresting the guy holding the matches."

    The class work they are doing tends to be really inefficient and it isn't improving the situation.
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    If you invalidate the MM cluster because it's old you must invalidate remmorchant for the same reason.
    No, that's not why I invalidated them at all, I invalidated the cluster because they are simply not a source of A) any challenge anymore, thus invalidating themselves or B) any BiS pieces of gear.

    Remm is still very current because literally every single piece of BiS gear except three new gold items is BiS from Remmorchant. It has nothing to do with age and everything to do with how relevant the content is in a purely factual sense, Remmorchant T5 still offers you BiS pieces of gear and is still the hardest content to complete and as such is an excellent indicator for the balancing of a level playing field for all tanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    They remain valid until the cap moves on.
    No. What is this short-sighted way of thinking? They remain valid only as long as they are run, I've not seen an MM instance LFF in World chat/LFF channel for literally weeks on weeks. Nobody is running them precisely because they are irrelevant right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    The vast majority of the support that a yellow Captain offers is passive. The few things that aren't passively active are automatically applied by the Captain when doing their own personal rotation, the only exception to this is WoC. Again, if you ripped away the fellowship part of all the support abilities on Yellow Captain you would not see any change in their rotation.
    I know you love cyclical debates but once again, this highlights the level of knowledge (or lack thereof) you have of the Captain class. The careful timing of cooldowns (so as not to self-suicide with IHW for example, which has a longer duration than LS), careful timing of incoming healing boosts, damage mitigators, heals (which are not just rotationally spammed on cooldown by decent Captains) and self-healing capability are all components that set aside good Captains from bad ones, hence why you don't see every pleb-tier Captain on World chat able to self-heal their way through AM T5 or complete Remm T5. You simply do not.

    Yellow Cappy is pretty easy to play but it's nowhere near as simple to min-max at the skill-ceieling, not even close to what you're suggesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    People really want to label Yellow Captain as "The support tank" when in reality they're not thinking about support 95% of the time.
    Again, you're wrong, this is exactly what the competent Yellow Captains are doing, they're constantly aware of when exactly in a fight they should utilise various components of the toolset they have. What you are describing are the terrible Captains that can barely keep Battle-hardened up and put Shield Bro on their pet, let alone actually aid the group short of the passive 10% morale gain. Any Captain just spamming their "OP CDs" on rotation is the sort of Captain that you wipe with because the cooldowns do not have 100% uptime, and if you're spamming them thoughtlessly then you're going to die. Once again, this is why there's a distinct set of players who can and cannot do content like AM Tier 5 without heals, players that know how to weave and maximise efficiency on cooldowns are the only ones who can do this.

    Captain has a high skill-ceiling, you act like every Captain is at it when I'd estimate 95% or more are nowhere even close.
    #15skills

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    The class work they are doing tends to be really inefficient and it isn't improving the situation.
    Is it possible you've finally come to the conclusion that they're incapable?

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by BinaryTertiary View Post
    Ah yes, one of those kids who chain into a topic just to hope he can trigger a person.
    It's me that argues with some people on a more personal level, then this boii chains in and hopes he hits a snare by posting it into a cappy forum topic.
    ''YES IVE POSTED SOME INFORMATION OF ZAHEER NOW HE'S GONNA BE SO TRIGGERED!!!!''
    alright fanboii, if I wanted to hide that I could've deleted that whole discussion with one click so nobody would ever see it, but I hope you're able to see past the horizon of that nose of yours and understand I do not care in the slightest.
    May this answer crush your hopes and dreams, ps you can write your rage message in private to me so nobody will see it, I promise I will keep it private.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmagor View Post
    No they can't. In last stream Severlin clearly says what class fixes after every update never ending process and they can't make some balance what can stay for 2-3 years.
    Them saying that -> proceeds by introducing a new class
    Last edited by Zaheer; Nov 26 2020 at 07:28 PM.
    WhiteGoliath

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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    The class work they are doing tends to be really inefficient and it isn't improving the situation.
    lmaoooo

    Your argument this entire time, thread after thread has been that SSG are more than capable and we should allow them to delve into the Captain class to fix it up and balance it, and that they won't mess it up or break it, now you're admitting that you don't believe that at all but still arguing for them to do it anyway?

    If you want to see examples of why we're all averse to any class nerfs, particularly Captains, see EVERY CLASS NERF EVER in the history of the game, there are more than I can count.

    - Champ was very underwhelming with no survivability or proper damage output, then they were buffed into madness with bubbles, they could hit like a truck whilst tanking, it was exceptionally fun but honestly just needed the bubbles moved into Blue exclusively and it'd have been fine. Instead it got nerfed into 5 years of being completely un-usable for almost all content.

    - Hunter was underwhelming, DPS was mediocre and every skill required standing still, blue-line was junk, Imp Fleetness set bonus turned Blue Hunter into something to be feared and it was promptly nerfed into utter oblivion a few months later after high survival, high mobility, moderate DPS build upset too many non-Hunters. Red-line was still absolutely meh and everyone stopped bothering with the class.

    - Hunter again, 2-3 years later received another Blue-line rework, turning it into an absolute DPS machine but with far less survivability, we got about 8 months of that before once again a heavy-handed nerf turned the class from the best ST DPSer to the worst, and for the next 3 years Hunters became obsolete until just recently.

    Warden has a history of a yearly Over-powered Under-powered balance tweak that sees them either top of the list or the worst class in the game, this has happened every year, year on year, for about 10 years now and is beyond a joke. I mained Warden for a decade but have given up because the class never stops shifting the goal posts.

    - Rune-Keepers, Lightning finally viable as a build again after EIGHT YEARS, they got ~6 months, long enough for everyone to gear one then nerfed into the state they're in now, sub-par DPSer that only brings DNF to the table, but 30% less damage output than Hunters/Champs so why bother bringing them?

    - Beorning, from conception red DPS has gone from being: Excellent, then utter trash with Execute nerf, then amazing again with some other buffs, but then QQ caused it to get nerfed and now a red Beorning is a literal joke, which is a shame as it's pretty fun to DPS on and has a lot of potential. Now they're just an amazing healing class or a mediocre tank, a complete shift in what they initially began good at.

    The list is almost endless for heavy-handed class nerfs that take a functioning class that is excelling at one role for the first time in years, and is then driven face down into the dirt by players like you (Joedan) crying for nerfs instead of simply asking for the other classes to be brought up to the same level, which we've seen time and time again they are capable of doing, every time they've buffed one of the classes in the past it's been for the better for the playerbase, the only exception I'd say was the oversight with the RK rotation after the recent lightning buff.

    You simply cannot take things away from players that play a class for those things without a) upsetting those players and b) causing them to stop bothering. Adding to other classes may make them decide to FOTM to the next fun thing, and that is fine because you don't lose a player, but you can't detract from their experience to "please" another's jealousy.

    Once again, and hopefully the final time myself and ~10 others have to re-iterate this very same point:

    Nerfing Captains into oblivion does not magically fix Blue Wardens, Champions, Beornings or Guardians. They do not suddenly become viable for the content with the absence of Captains.
    #15skills

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Once again, and hopefully the final time myself and ~10 others have to re-iterate this very same point:

    Nerfing Captains into oblivion does not magically fix Blue Wardens, Champions, Beornings or Guardians. They do not suddenly become viable for the content with the absence of Captains.
    Give this man a medal!

    +1 to your entire post, and literally the exact same thing I have been saying, as WE HAVE ALL been saying for the past 6 months.

  14. #64
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    I know Captains are ridiculously strong, I don't play one, and I'm totally fine with it.

    Please don't nerf any classes, nerfing does much more harm than good. What we need is to FIX bear, warden, guard, and even champ tanking so that we have more tanks as options.

    You know what is going to happen if Vastin listens to this thread, his team will destroy captains just like they destroy every other class they try to "modify for balance".
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post

    You know what is going to happen if Vastin listens to this thread, his team will destroy captains just like they destroy every other class they try to "modify for balance".

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    Is it possible you've finally come to the conclusion that they're incapable?
    No, I've come to the conclusion that their current approach is awful. Quite a different conclusion really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Captain has a high skill-ceiling, you act like every Captain is at it when I'd estimate 95% or more are nowhere even close.
    Yellow Captain has 3 cooldowns that you might legitimately need to monitor, 4 if you really want to put emphasis on holding defeat response rallying cry as a response to burst. 2 of these cooldowns are 1m long, the third is 2m and super-situational. Are you really gonna tell me that agonising over when to press 2 buttons each minute gives a spec a "high skill-ceiling"? No matter when you press them you're gonna get value, yes you'll get more value carefully timing it for specific events but with 25-30s durations you're covered for a good chunk of a bosses skill rotation. A captain who just keeps the buffs up and fires of To-Arms/Banner off cooldown is still going to be operating at near 80% effectiveness.

    You seem fixated on the idea that the reason so few Captains do AM T5 without a healer is because they aren't skilled enough when in reality the main barrier to doing that on most Captains is probably gear or the availability of strong DPSers. Yellow Captain in particular has a very low skill floor and a moderately low skill ceiling. You can make a lot of mistakes on Captain before you legitimately come into danger of wiping, it's not a spec that lives or dies by a single mistimed key press. I'm not going to pretend that other tanks are much different, Beorning even manages to be even simpler somehow. At best you can probably say that Blue Warden is the only tank with a skill ceiling worth talking about and even that is mostly just a case of building muscle-memory. This definitely needs to change a bit; Beornings need to have their mitigation boosts become something they must actively work to maintain, Guardians could probably do with a lower cooldown on break ranks (with slightly lower duration) so they have more opportunity to trade defence for offence and Captains could really do with having a bunch of their support being pushed into things they actively need to maintain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    A series of examples that follow a pattern of saying something along the lines of "X class was buffed to be super good and then they nerfed it to suck again after a short time"
    You're kinda highlighting that every poorly executed nerf is done shortly after an ill-considered buff. Seems we'd avoid a lot of heartache by just banning buffs now.

    In full seriousness this whole "NERFS ARE BAD" rhetoric is grounded in ignorance and ignorance alone. When it comes to class balance buffs and nerfs are essentially the same thing. They are a tool by which one can push a spec closer to their competitors. If one spec outperforms 5 others you can nerf the one spec down to meet them and thus balance is restored, if one spec underperforms you can buff that one spec up to meet the others and balance is restored. Things get a bit questionable when you insist on buffing 5 specs up a significant amount instead of nerfing the outlier down to their (moderately equal) level.

    Why make 100 changes across 5 specs when you could make 10 changes to one and achieve essentially the same outcome?

    If buffs to other tank specs made sense you can be sure I'd advocate for that...but they don't. The other tank specs are within a reasonable range of one another, Captain alone stands as an outlier and so Captain can easily be identified as the most in need of reworking.
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

  17. #67
    It's pretty funny to read these threads where YOU (players) are bashing each-other instead of concentrating to real problem - SSG. They don't give a #### about current abysmal tank imbalance which was introduced with tiered instance scaling and awfully bad instance designs since MM cluster, unless you as players are really doing something about that - that means STOP GIVING THEM ANY MONEY!!!
    The latest crazy Valar sale just confirms their intentions about not doing any meaningful tank-class balance in near future - "we don't really give a ####, just buy a valar and level only meaningful tank (captain)". Instead they are wasting their devs time on some nonsense gimmicks like "Brawler" class and "River hobbits". But good luck to people , who are still giving any money to SSG in hope to get any good end-game content and class balance in near future ...

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    If buffs to other tank specs made sense you can be sure I'd advocate for that...but they don't. The other tank specs are within a reasonable range of one another, Captain alone stands as an outlier and so Captain can easily be identified as the most in need of reworking.
    Just because the other 4 tank specs are moderately close to one another (which is already false considering warden/champ are significantly behind) does not therefore posit that where they are is a good place. That is flawed logic, and their inability to complete the highest difficulty of content supports that fact.

    Whether you want to dismiss Remm T4/5 or not, it IS the highest level of difficulty this level-cap has, and nerfing Captains will not suddenly mean that these other 4 classes are suddenly able to now do this content, and to also use the argument that they are capable of tanking the rest of the content is also not a sound argument (considering I very much doubt neither Champ or Warden is capable of tanking Thossolun/Shelob even on T3).

    I don't recall any Non-Captain being able to tank the first boss on Filth-Well, at least not until we were wildly over-geared.
    I don't recall any BChamp / Warden being able to tank the second or third boss in Lamentation OR the Fallen Kings for that matter and even then Beornings + Guardians only IF the group was extremely good (even less so on Lamentation Third Boss until certain changes were made).

    As it goes, I hardly recall any non-captains being able to tank any of the instances on the highest tier (except for the 3mans, bar Filth-Well) when they first dropped, only when we were at a point when we had almost the best possible gear available at the time was it then possible for non-captains (or considerably good groups who used Beornings/Guardians but this is within 2-5% of the general player base at most, which even then was a struggle) to be able to tank the content on offer.

    Ergo, there is either a problem with the other 4 classes, or there is a problem with the content, so which is it? Hmm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    You're kinda highlighting that every poorly executed nerf is done shortly after an ill-considered buff. Seems we'd avoid a lot of heartache by just banning buffs now.
    Except that isn't true of the situation at all? Everything you are asking to happen (being easier to nerf one class and then address the others) is EXACTLY what happened with RKs in this past year.

    The RK Revamp made Yellow-Line viable, in the grand-scheme of things the only problem was that Hunters had scaled extremely badly from 120 and Champs were struggling to compete in ST, other than the yellow-line rotation being absolutely brain dead, RKs were in a perfectly fine position (and IN FACT doing less dps than Burglars and Wardens, they were THIRD on the DPS list), yet, there was thread, upon thread, upon thread, calling out for RK nerfs, saying they were godmode, saying they were easy, blah blah blah, exactly what we have going on right now in relation to Captains.

    What was SSG's response? Let's nerf the class into oblivion, whilst, at the same time, buffing up Hunters and Champs who were lagging behind RKs - so instead of bringing two classes up to par with the current meta, they preferred to nerf the "meta" (according to the forums) and then proceeded to buff the two classes that were lagging behind anyway, so now we are in a position where RKs are so far behind, they are not even considered anymore for the higher tiers of content.

    Do you still not understand that SSG is incapable?
    Last edited by Hephburz-2; Nov 28 2020 at 09:35 AM.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marxlne View Post
    It's pretty funny to read these threads where YOU (players) are bashing each-other instead of concentrating to real problem - SSG. They don't give a #### about current abysmal tank imbalance which was introduced with tiered instance scaling and awfully bad instance designs since MM cluster, unless you as players are really doing something about that - that means STOP GIVING THEM ANY MONEY!!!
    The latest crazy Valar sale just confirms their intentions about not doing any meaningful tank-class balance in near future - "we don't really give a ####, just buy a valar and level only meaningful tank (captain)". Instead they are wasting their devs time on some nonsense gimmicks like "Brawler" class and "River hobbits". But good luck to people , who are still giving any money to SSG in hope to get any good end-game content and class balance in near future ...
    That happens because they consider Rem and MM cluster as already past project, and don't want waste their time and resources to make huge changes for it. Did you know any MMO what have, (just imagine) complete revamp for all tank classes in 2021 to help them tank instance created in 2019? No. No one waste resources for that. They need revamp guardian in the past, right in time where they introduce Rem. Right now it's too late and pointless. They more smart when some players who create 100000 topics every day asking for buffing their class. If you don't see result, why you keep creating them?

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    Yellow Captain has 3 cooldowns that you might legitimately need to monitor, 4
    It has nothing to do with watching a cooldown timer tick away and clicking it, it has everything to do with knowing from tells in a fight when is a good time, when is necessary to use a given skill and the rotation of which you should use for optimal efficiency.

    I guess as they say, though, arguing with an idiot....

    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    Why make 100 changes across 5 specs when you could make 10 changes to one and achieve essentially the same outcome?
    Jesus Christ. HOW MANY TIMES? Are you trolling us all rn?

    Me 24 hrs ago: Once again, and hopefully for the final time...

    Nerfing Captains into oblivion does not magically fix Blue Wardens, Champions, Beornings or Guardians. They do not suddenly become viable for the content with the absence of Captains.


    ---

    Please, for the love of god explain to me how nerfing Captains makes Champion tanks viable for Remmorchant Tier 5. Please, I would just love to know.
    #15skills

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Please, for the love of god explain to me how nerfing Captains makes Champion tanks viable for Remmorchant Tier 5. Please, I would just love to know.
    Same.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    It has nothing to do with watching a cooldown timer tick away and clicking it, it has everything to do with knowing from tells in a fight when is a good time, when is necessary to use a given skill and the rotation of which you should use for optimal efficiency.
    Very few Captain skills matter in regards to when you press them, the majority of effects easily maintain a 100% uptime. It's not a high skill spec. Red Captain legitimately requires effort to maximise your performance that is something you can easily consider a moderate to high skill ceiling specialisation but yellow Captain is most definitely not that. It's dishonest to pretend it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Nerfing Captains into oblivion does not magically fix Blue Wardens, Champions, Beornings or Guardians. They do not suddenly become viable for the content with the absence of Captains.
    They...are viable though. They just can't compete with Captains (still not advocating for an absence of Captains in the tank role by the way). As far as actually tanking content goes (i.e. maintaining personal defence and holding aggro) they do perfectly fine, they just can't help their fellowship bypass mechanics via IHW/LS and they don't passively throw out a bevy of buffs. Not that they should be doing either of those things really. Slapping a motivating speech equivalent on Beornings certainly boosts how competitive they are but it doesn't fit with the spec at all and you'd just wind up comboing yellow Captain and Beorning in that situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Please, for the love of god explain to me how nerfing Captains makes Champion tanks viable for Remmorchant Tier 5. Please, I would just love to know.
    Depends in how you adjust them. Migrating shield of the dunedain over to blue and improving blues single target healing thus bringing it in line as a competitive healer would notably improve the viability of other tank specs. They do need to sort out the motivating speech issue, stripping it from blue/yellow and making it raidwide in red would probably work as a moderately effective band-aid solution until they can come up with something better that doesn't force you to absolutely need a Captain in every raid group. No class should be that singularly required after all.

    Certainly Chank wouldn't be totally ok with that change alone. The spec is pretty messy all round and needs some trait adjustments but...it doesn't need random totally new powerful support abilities added. It's an aggressive tank built around managing defensive cooldowns, the fact that a few of them aren't quite potent enough to warrant the long cooldowns they currently have doesn't mean they should be getting totally unrelated buffs.

    What do you even want to add to these other specs to make them compete with current yellow captain? You want to give Chanks a double rez? Give Beornings a raidwide version of sacrifice that just deletes incoming damage instead of redirecting? You're insisting that these specs would be fine if they were buffed but you don't seem to have any real clue would those buffs would look like. Some people are at least offering a solution that would result in tanks being on a more even footing but you're just waving your hands and saying there's a magic solution whilst being careful to never mention what that magic solution is.
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    Ergo, there is either a problem with the other 4 classes, or there is a problem with the content, so which is it? Hmm?
    Defensively blue guardian/Beorning are borderline on the same tier as yellow Captain. If you have a scenario where a yellow Captain can tank something but a blue beorning/guard can't then you probably have some silly groupwide damage mechanic that healers can't cope with. So I guess content is a little poorly designed. The thing is...Captain is quite probably the cause of this bad design. They have to balance high tier content around the best players can bring after all so naturally they'd need to overdo fellowship-wide damage if they were to have any chance of stressing a healer playing in a yellow captain group. The longer this imbalance goes on the more content they'll design around the overpowered spec.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    Except that isn't true of the situation at all? Everything you are asking to happen (being easier to nerf one class and then address the others) is EXACTLY what happened with RKs in this past year.
    Current yellow RK is moderately balanced. It's not a strong option in terms of pure DPS but it still has access to very powerful support abilities. People just aren't being pushed to need those support abilities right now so naturally they take higher DPS options.
    Nerf the support and sure, they can go bump it back up to being competitive DPS. It's not really hard to grasp that a spec that has a double rez and the ability to grab a fairly notable raidwide defensive cooldown...probably shouldn't be that close to topping the DPS charts.
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,492
    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    Very few Captain skills matter in regards to when you press them

    They...are viable though.

    Depends in how you adjust them. Migrating shield of the dunedain over to blue and improving blues single target healing thus bringing it in line as a competitive healer would notably improve the viability of other tank specs.
    Losing the will to keep responding to you as you just continually spout nonsense. Captain skills don't matter when you press them? Okay... Next T5 Remm I run I am going to pop every single skill on my bar the moment the fight starts and then AFK. "Joedangod on the forums said that's all I have to do" will be my excuse when we wipe 40 seconds later because I wasn't rotating my defensives properly.

    They are not viable, hence why they are unable to complete the difficult content that currently exists. I don't understand how you can just ignore these glaring facts time and time again? And again, and again... And... Again.

    Your suggestion is not to buff any tanks, but only nerf Captains, and that makes Chanks viable because Captains can then come into a raid as a blue-line healer and use its cooldowns on the Chank? lol. So your perfect world with nasty OP Captain tanks out of the equation sees all the other tank classes only viable if they rely on the tanking CDs of another class under the guise of Captains being accepted as healers but not tanks.

    Next up, a Joedangod thread: "Nerf Captains, they've taken the spots of Minstrels with their bubble!!!!"

    There is absolutely no doubt that if they buffed ST healing and gave us a bubble in blue-line Captains would be the highest parsing and strongest healers of any class. I can already sustain 250-300k HPS and it peaks at nearly 400k in ideal scenarios. Clearly you're a main captain since you've shared so much rotational knowledge on these forums, and you already know this. So you're not advocating for turning Captain into the most OP healer instead of tank, are you?
    #15skills

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    24
    i suppose people are missing the original point of this thread. i never said all the other tanks should stay as they are, only captain tanks need a nerf.
    as a matter of fact, not only do i think the other tanks need serious buffs (with main priority on guard since they have nothing else than tanking... being a mediocre second choice doesn't help them at all), i also think that there needs to be a serious change in content, cause atm most boss fights just screw over the non cappy tanks with mechanics like tactical stuff that just ignores bpe to begin with and high mit debuffs, which hurt mitigation tanks much more than morale tanks, among other things.

 

 
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