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  1. #151
    I must clarify, for people who want to counter-argument me about "SSG needs money" etc...

    I'm totally fine if they release many questpacks a year. They can release 10 questpacks a year if they wish. But then, the content duration and quality must match the price.

    They can't release a questpack that can be completed in 1 day with almost zero endgame and price it for 10-15€, are we insane?? A questpack like that should cost 3-5€ maximum lol. And no, 1 instance doesn't justify a price increase, at least not such big as SSG is doing now.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    The point is that it's not worth the money. It's not worth even the farmed LPs.

    Sorry, so dissappointed for Wilderland, I have the feeling that new questpacks (no miniexpansions) are going to be this quality and it's too stupid for me to understand.
    I enjoyed Wilderland, so tastes will vary. I didn't enjoy Elderslade and I can't wait to see the back of missions, which I'm only running to completion on my main. After that I'll never go back there on any alt. As I said, tastes vary.

    For me, someone who doesn't mind paying for the game if it's worth it, and someone who never farms LP, this is very simple.

    Either pay to play via a sub and all content, except expansions are included (full expansions, not this silly quest pack called a mini-expansion stuff), or, play without paying then buy content, either through buying or grinding points for those that want to play for free.

    That's it, that is cut and dry and a very simple model.

    Of course, that still gives Lifers the opportunity to play without ever paying for anything other than expansions. It doesn't matter that some lifers also contribute in other ways, the fact of the matter is, they don't have to, and many don't.

    So, while they are going to charge extra on top of the sub for non expac content, they have devalued it - for me, and if they are going to keep to this path of charging for quest packs labelled as mini expansions going forward, they aren't going to get me to pay to play via a sub. I'll jut buy the content instead and it will cost me much less, unless they can keep up with releasing one every month - which they can't.

    The only alternative I'd consider is if they allowed us to buy a lifetime VIP for the perks involved (minus content), once we have passed a certain threshold of financial input into the game via a sub or real cash purchases, for a fair price, and then charge for all content at reasonable rates. But there is no way I'm going to pay a continuous sub (minus content) forever, and pay for content on top.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Nov 22 2020 at 11:08 AM.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  3. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by wispsong View Post
    But VIP pay for this LP through their monthly sub. This is a steady flow of money. When I pay VIP for 3 months, that's $30. If I spend that money on LP I get a lot more.

    The store lacks new items. But SSG decided to go with the key/box lottery and puts the good things there.

    The store needs to be looked at, new items added more often, especially limited time and pricing adjusted. Bundles are nice but items sold individually might attract more buyers.
    Up on this. I've been a heavy critique of SSG making restrictions less for new players, but I'm now of the mind they really can't cos the store is mostly there to boost the sales of content unlocks. So the store was added to support unlocks and not initially the cosmetics. The cosmetics for characters are not really worth it especially since you can get most of them from the skirm camps. The war-steed ones at the most but they haven't been updated in a long while.

    Housing ofc is it's own thing but not everyone gets it.

    Honestly I'd be ok with them adding exclusive cosmetics to the store only, like new facial features/haircuts/markings, more exclusive housing furniture for premium housing, more war-steed cosmetics/steed cosmetics. No one would be able to complain, it's a F2P game business model of which most make money via selling cosmetics. Warframe is the best example of this, I really think SSG missed alot by not focusing on store exclusive cosmetics.

  4. #154
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    I think its about the time "soon" that a clarification is made by the staff about those micro-extensions and how it will be really running on live. What definition will make one micro-expension free,
    or not?...

    If cash is needed just say so. We'll support as we can. I Agree too that more cosmetic stuff in store, that would be often refreshed would work fine for that. Those things are seductive. And if not very
    expensive, thay can really be sold very often (GW2 store with its ingame currency equivalent of 300LP more or less, FF14 store selling for 2euros things,those 2just for exemples ).
    Everyone says its a beautifull game and lore: Vendoring us more aesthetic stuff will pay i'm sure .
    And again, your creative team SSG is not far from perfect! (Bravo to writers and visual artists again)!.

    Secondly I read here and there on this thread that lifetimers just dont pay for content anymore, "most of them" as i've been reading. Really?!
    Sorry but I have to react!. This is so unfair and untrue!. Throwing that as a fact here is wrong. Been reading too, that some of you want Gold, copper, silver Vips now?
    I 'm stunned.
    Why do you want to complicate more the Lotr suscription system?.

    *Wave* Be well

  5. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    I enjoyed Wilderland, so tastes will vary. I didn't enjoy Elderslade and I can't wait to see the back of missions, which I'm only running to completion on my main. After that I'll never go back there on any alt. As I said, tastes vary.
    This is not about the taste, it's about content duration and quality.

    Objectively, Wilderland is one of the worst questpacks of the game because it doesn't give anything to the game. Offers almost zero replayability. Bad rewards. Story of the quests, it's decent. The rest? Very poor. Slayer deeds with insane numbers added later just to increase the duration. I haven't needed to use a slayer boost for years, maybe since old anorien when slayer deeds were long, before the reduction. Wilderland was the first then because woodtrolls and troll slayers are put on purpose to increase the grind. You literally need to kill like 20 trolls for the quests, or less. But hey, let's add stupid slayer deed, since that's easier than adding content.

    If Wilderland is added to the store for 595 LPS, I would shut my mouth. But 1295 LPS is a scam.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
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  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    This is not about the taste, it's about content duration and quality.

    Objectively, Wilderland is one of the worst questpacks of the game because it doesn't give anything to the game. Offers almost zero replayability. Bad rewards. Story of the quests, it's decent. The rest? Very poor. Slayer deeds with insane numbers added later just to increase the duration. I haven't needed to use a slayer boost for years, maybe since old anorien when slayer deeds were long, before the reduction. Wilderland was the first then because woodtrolls and troll slayers are put on purpose to increase the grind. You literally need to kill like 20 trolls for the quests, or less. But hey, let's add stupid slayer deed, since that's easier than adding content.

    If Wilderland is added to the store for 595 LPS, I would shut my mouth. But 1295 LPS is a scam.
    Quality isn't always about size though is it. Or how long it lasts. The best content in the game for me, bar none, is Great River, though many will probably disagree with me on that. Moria is a close second, and those two are miles apart in size and duration.

    It's not about being objective when it comes to people parting with their cash, it's about being subjective and about what people want to pay for and enjoy playing.

    Put it this way, I enjoyed Wilderland more than I enjoyed Far Anorien, and as a result, I think Wilderland is better value for money.

    All regions of the game have their easy slayer deeds and the more grindy ones. From The Shire to Elderslade. Nothing has changed. Spiders of Taradan anyone?

    You do know, if you really think Wilderland is that much of a scam, you don't have to buy it right? It's extra level 130 content, as is Elderslade, and neither is needed.
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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symbolika1 View Post
    I think its about the time "soon" that a clarification is made by the staff about those micro-extensions and how it will be really running on live. What definition will make one micro-expension free,
    or not?...

    If cash is needed just say so. We'll support as we can. I Agree too that more cosmetic stuff in store, that would be often refreshed would work fine for that. Those things are seductive. And if not very
    expensive, thay can really be sold very often (GW2 store with its ingame currency equivalent of 300LP more or less, FF14 store selling for 2euros things,those 2just for exemples ).
    Everyone says its a beautifull game and lore: Vendoring us more aesthetic stuff will pay i'm sure .
    And again, your creative team SSG is not far from perfect! (Bravo to writers and visual artists again)!.

    Secondly I read here and there on this thread that lifetimers just dont pay for content anymore, "most of them" as i've been reading. Really?!
    Sorry but I have to react!. This is so unfair and untrue!. Throwing that as a fact here is wrong. Been reading too, that some of you want Gold, copper, silver Vips now?
    I 'm stunned.
    Why do you want to complicate more the Lotr suscription system?.

    *Wave* Be well
    Lifetimers do not pay for content "outside of expansions" is what I said, not that they do not pay for content (as in all of it). It's not possible for them to pay for content outside of expansions, because they will not show up in the store. So yes, really! Please don't misquote and change people's words into something they are not.

    Yes, I'd like to see tiered VIP. It's not complicated, and it wouldn't affect lifers who would still get what was promised to them all those years and years ago. It would definitely improve it for non lifetime, paying subscribers.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Quality isn't always about size though is it. Or how long it lasts. The best content in the game for me, bar none, is Great River, though many will probably disagree with me on that. Moria is a close second, and those two are miles apart in size and duration.

    It's not about being objective when it comes to people parting with their cash, it's about being subjective and about what people want to pay for and enjoy playing.

    Put it this way, I enjoyed Wilderland more than I enjoyed Far Anorien, and as a result, I think Wilderland is better value for money.

    All regions of the game have their easy slayer deeds and the more grindy ones. From The Shire to Elderslade. Nothing has changed. Spiders of Taradan anyone?

    You do know, if you really think Wilderland is that much of a scam, you don't have to buy it right? It's extra level 130 content, as is Elderslade, and neither is needed.
    Yes, but as it's SSG who puts the price, they must apply it objectively considering variables that don't depend on feelings or taste. These variables are replayability and content.

    I am musician, by your definition, I could put the price to my music albums based on feelings, on what I consider it's the best or not. But I don't do that. I put prices based in 3 variables: duration of the album, number of songs, and finally, overall quality in comparison with other works. By your definition, I could just overprice one album because I consider it better just because I want. This is not fair.

    But SSG is not pricing based on feelings too. They are pricing based in... I don't know. I'd say instances, but a 3man is not justification for such an absurd price. I have no idea why Wilderland costs 1295 Lp.

    I'm surprised by your last sentence. Nothing is needed, this is a game. That something is not needed, it's not excuse for scamming. It's the same as saying that if lotro has P2W, then don't buy the P2W things. And I got Wilderland for free because the free code. That won't shut my mouth also. It's not fair. And I'm pretty sure that nobody complains on the price just because most got it for free in the code. Nice tactic from SSG, though.
    Last edited by Fegefeuer; Nov 22 2020 at 01:49 PM.
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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Put it this way, I enjoyed Wilderland more than I enjoyed Far Anorien, and as a result, I think Wilderland is better value for money.
    Just want to get this straight so it's clear for anyone who hasn't been there and may not know the faction/rep name. By Wilderland you mean Wells of Langflood, right? I'm only asking because there's nowhere called Wilderland on the map, so the name may confuse people.

    Unless you count the whole of Rhovanion, which is Sindarin for Wilderland. But I doubt that's where you mean.

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Altair6 View Post
    Just want to get this straight so it's clear for anyone who hasn't been there and may not know the faction/rep name. By Wilderland you mean Wells of Langflood, right? I'm only asking because there's nowhere called Wilderland on the map, so the name may confuse people.

    Unless you count the whole of Rhovanion, which is Sindarin for Wilderland. But I doubt that's where you mean.
    Mists of Wilderland is the name of the questpack, and the reputation faction is Protectors of Wilderland. But yes, it's Wells of Langflood what we're meaning.
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  11. #161
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    Bashing lifers is pointless.... in my view as a lifer and of friends who took the opportunity back in the day to take out the life time are actually very loyal and do pay out not only for expansions for their main account but also for regular LP when on sale and also content for secondary premium accounts. We also help out in other ways in giving of time and experience in the different levels of Alpha and Beta testing.

    I personally drop more in this game than any other pastime or fancy that I take and I took advantage of the lifetime back in 2008ish.... The only reason I keep dropping cash to Turbine/SSG is because I AM A LIFER!!

    So, if the VIP is changed to a tier system..... you bet your bottom dollar that Lifers better get the top tier otherwise it will be company suicide ....

  12. #162
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    I entirely agree that bashing lifers is both wrong and pointless.

    In the highly unlikely event that a tiered system is introduced, SSG can and quite likely will dictate the result by the terminology they choose.

    Suppose, to make something up at random, they announce that the VIP system is not changing. But for $5 a month any subscriber can buy a set of premium benefits to supplement their subscription. Maybe any non-subscriber can also buy those benefits for $5 a month. Or maybe $7 a month for non-subscribers.

    A lifetime VIP will have a really difficult time arguing that this "Supplemental Benefits Package" is part of the basic subscription and they should get it. A really difficult argument if non-subscribers cannot get the new benefits by paying for them and an impossible argument if they can.

    I am tempted to say a good lawyer could set things up in a way to make their case a dead loss - but it wouldn't take a good lawyer. A quite mediocre one could handle something this easy.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by mithelenthor View Post
    Bashing lifers is pointless....

    ...snip...

    So, if the VIP is changed to a tier system..... you bet your bottom dollar that Lifers better get the top tier otherwise it will be company suicide ....
    Yes.
    Ticking off Lifers would be a very large mistake.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by mithelenthor View Post
    Bashing lifers is pointless.... in my view as a lifer and of friends who took the opportunity back in the day to take out the life time are actually very loyal and do pay out not only for expansions for their main account but also for regular LP when on sale and also content for secondary premium accounts. We also help out in other ways in giving of time and experience in the different levels of Alpha and Beta testing.

    I personally drop more in this game than any other pastime or fancy that I take and I took advantage of the lifetime back in 2008ish.... The only reason I keep dropping cash to Turbine/SSG is because I AM A LIFER!!

    So, if the VIP is changed to a tier system..... you bet your bottom dollar that Lifers better get the top tier otherwise it will be company suicide ....
    Nobody is bashing lifers, and as I already stated, some of them support the game through purchases. The point was, and still is, that they do not have to, and many don't. The only reason that my hubby never drops any cash to Turbine/SSG, outside of expac content is because he is a lifer.

    See what I did there?

    Perhaps I should reword the tiered VIP thing to not include the word VIP. Call it a brand new thing without any mention of VIP.

    Your lifetime VIP promised you a free VIP subscription for the lifetime of the game. You'd still get that. You just wouldn't get the brand new thing.

    VIP subscription - you'd get this
    Something Else subscription - you wouldn't get this, unless you pay for it.
    Something else extra subscription - you wouldn't get this either, unless you pay for it.
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  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altair6 View Post
    Just want to get this straight so it's clear for anyone who hasn't been there and may not know the faction/rep name. By Wilderland you mean Wells of Langflood, right? I'm only asking because there's nowhere called Wilderland on the map, so the name may confuse people.

    Unless you count the whole of Rhovanion, which is Sindarin for Wilderland. But I doubt that's where you mean.
    Yes, the Wells of Langflood area, in the Mists of Wilderland quest pack.
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  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Nobody is bashing lifers, and as I already stated, some of them support the game through purchases. The point was, and still is, that they do not have to...
    And that is how it is.
    So, I guess the point is...well, what is the point?

    There are a small group of folks that paid some large amount to take a risk on what might turn out to be a great deal.
    The "deal" is that they are forever granted full access to the game the same as a subscriber.

    If the idea is to offer something that no subscriber gets, then we already have that. In spades.
    ............................ missed a putt.........................At a Dead & Co. show on a Mexican beach............ another Dead & Co. show at the same beach a year later
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  17. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by mithelenthor View Post
    So, if the VIP is changed to a tier system..... you bet your bottom dollar that Lifers better get the top tier otherwise it will be company suicide ....
    It's scary. I wouldn't be surprised if they do it. A game I loved closed 2 times because company suicides.

    This game was in a company, it worked fine for more than a year, they even released an expansion. Then they banned most players of one faction because suspect of exploiting in pvp. After this, the game was empty. They announced closure some weeks later. It felt that they killed the game on purpose.

    Then the game was picked by another company some years later and was released on steam. And this company was the worst company I have seen. You logged in the game and the chat was spammed with gold sellers. And what they did to fight this? They started to sell gold in the store. The store was highly P2W, and when I saw that, I just said myself... Goodbye, you'll close. And yes, it also closed shortly.

    These are examples of company suicide. This exist, and it's not impossible that it happens. Considering the history of SSG/DB on current times, I wouldn't be surprised if they do company suicide.
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  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by istvana View Post
    I entirely agree that bashing lifers is both wrong and pointless.

    In the highly unlikely event that a tiered system is introduced, SSG can and quite likely will dictate the result by the terminology they choose.

    Suppose, to make something up at random, they announce that the VIP system is not changing. But for $5 a month any subscriber can buy a set of premium benefits to supplement their subscription. Maybe any non-subscriber can also buy those benefits for $5 a month. Or maybe $7 a month for non-subscribers.

    A lifetime VIP will have a really difficult time arguing that this "Supplemental Benefits Package" is part of the basic subscription and they should get it. A really difficult argument if non-subscribers cannot get the new benefits by paying for them and an impossible argument if they can.

    I am tempted to say a good lawyer could set things up in a way to make their case a dead loss - but it wouldn't take a good lawyer. A quite mediocre one could handle something this easy.
    As I already said. not bashing lifers. I've been married to one for more than 20 years.

    You are correct in the rest of your post. SSG can introduce any new subscription they wish, and as long as the "VIP subscription" is untouched, they aren't breaking any rules or laws.

    Examples.

    VIP subscription. Includes everything currently in that sub. $10 per month. Lifers would retain this.

    The Newcomer subscription. Includes Riding, and a mount to all characters for $3.00 a month - while actively subbed. Available to any new account created after it's launch. No currently owned account would be able to get it, no matter what status that account is now.

    The Perk subscription. Access to Rest XP, Wanda quest and Destiny points. $5.00 per month or $100 for lifetime.

    The Spenders Subscription. Access to 50% off all store purchases while active. $5.00 per month or $100 for lifetime.

    Super sub. Includes everything in the current VIP sub (with no mention of VIP in the name) plus the Spenders subscription. $15.00 per month.

    Possibilities are endless.
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  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    As I already said. not bashing lifers. I've been married to one for more than 20 years.

    You are correct in the rest of your post. SSG can introduce any new subscription they wish, and as long as the "VIP subscription" is untouched, they aren't breaking any rules or laws.

    Examples.

    VIP subscription. Includes everything currently in that sub. Lifers would retain this.

    The Newcomer subscription. Includes Riding, and a mount to all characters for $3.00 a month - while actively subbed. Available to any new account created after it's launch. No currently owned account would be able to get it, no matter what status that account is now.

    The Perk subscription. Access to Rest XP, Wanda quest and Destiny points. $5.00 per month or $100 for lifetime.

    The Spenders Subscription. Access to 50% off all store purchases while active. $5.00 per month or $100 for lifetime.

    Super sub. Includes everything in the current VIP sub (with no mention of it) plus the Spenders subscription.

    Possibilities are endless.
    Nothing at all wrong with that.
    Except that it completely breaks the promise.

    The concept "VIP Subscription" did not exist at the time Lifetime subscriptions were offered.
    Words matter.
    ............................ missed a putt.........................At a Dead & Co. show on a Mexican beach............ another Dead & Co. show at the same beach a year later
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  20. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    The Perk subscription. Access to Rest XP, Wanda quest and Destiny points. $5.00 per month or $100 for lifetime.
    That's nice idea, so I say my idea based in that.

    I think good idea is to maybe VIP benefits to be sold separately as "mini VIP". Don't touch VIP/Lifers. Instead, they could sell mini VIP like this:
    - Character unlocks: swift travel+traits
    - Character bonuses: perks, blue xp and remote mailbox
    - Pvp: access to pvp areas
    - Content: access to questpacks

    They can sell these things separately for a reduced price (monthly payment needed, except for permanent unlocks). That way, if a person wants to sub but it's only interested in 1 thing, they can choose what they want. Like, if a person only wants to sub for PVP, maybe with the reduced cost, they would be more willing to do it.

    It won't happen, though. To the eyes of SSG, having VIP at full price even if many benefits are useless to certain players is good because they earn more money.
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  21. #171
    Even better, they could make a website for VIP with a list if all benefits, and the person can select or deselect the things that want or doesn't want. If everything is selected, then you get VIP at full price. If you remove things, the price decrease. I won't talk about prices here because this is something they should decide. If they are touching VIP, this could be fine. Maybe it's a bit complicated to design, but I think it's fine for people who don't have the money to pay full VIP, but they want some benefits and support the game.
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  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    Even better, they could make a website for VIP with a list if all benefits, and the person can select or deselect the things that want or doesn't want. If everything is selected, then you get VIP at full price. If you remove things, the price decrease. I won't talk about prices here because this is something they should decide. If they are touching VIP, this could be fine. Maybe it's a bit complicated to design, but I think it's fine for people who don't have the money to pay full VIP, but they want some benefits and support the game.
    That is an interesting thought.
    I like it.
    ............................ missed a putt.........................At a Dead & Co. show on a Mexican beach............ another Dead & Co. show at the same beach a year later
    ......................................................
    The real Boraxxe... wearing his "Get off my lawn!" face and his "I smoked my lawn" face, and yes, that's a banana, no, I'm not happy to see you.
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  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boraxxe View Post
    Nothing at all wrong with that.
    Except that it completely breaks the promise.

    The concept "VIP Subscription" did not exist at the time Lifetime subscriptions were offered.
    Words matter.
    No it doesn't. The lifer would still get, what they bought. A lifetime subscription to the game, based on everything that they bought - at the time, and more (stuff they have added to it since).

    Think about what you just said. If "VIP subscription" didn't exist at the time that Lifetime subscriptions were offered, then the introduction of those VIP subscriptions would have been breaking the promise, using your criteria. It didn't though.

    Neither would adding other types of subscriptions. They just have to ensure they don't label them as VIP.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Nov 23 2020 at 09:51 AM.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  24. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    No it doesn't. The lifer would still get, what they bought. A lifetime subscription to the game, based on everything that they bought - at the time, and more (stuff they have added to it since).

    Think about what you just said. If "VIP subscription" didn't exist at the time that Lifetime subscriptions were offered, then the introduction of those VIP subscriptions would have been breaking the promise, using your criteria. It didn't though.

    Neither would adding other types of subscriptions. They just have to ensure they don't label them as VIP.
    But changing names are pointless. Vip is very important person, right? Well, they can call it Sip (super important person), it would be the same, just different name.

    You already have precedent. They just released a quest pack, but named it as miniexpansion... And so far, I think people didn't get tricked for the name change.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
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  25. #175
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Wales, United Kingdom
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    13,143
    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    But changing names are pointless. Vip is very important person, right? Well, they can call it Sip (super important person), it would be the same, just different name.

    You already have precedent. They just released a quest pack, but named it as miniexpansion... And so far, I think people didn't get tricked for the name change.


    I'm not talking about a name change. The subscription, as it is now would still exist. Players could still sub as they do now, and lifers would still get that very same thing.

    Adding different subscriptions - as well as the normal sub, (not instead of it), wouldn't be breaking any promises.

    Its nothing like renaming a quest pack as a mini expansions and replacing the quest pack with it so that the quest pack no longer exists.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


 

 
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