We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 11 of 11 FirstFirst ... 7 8 9 10 11
Results 251 to 262 of 262
  1. #251
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    13,124
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    But this was the point Sev was making, they CANT remove those benefits, for all the reasons you just said.

    But this does now mean it is more difficult to make VIP worth more.
    They probably can . . . moving forward. By which I mean they could probably get away with preventing permanent unlocks from a date of change, but not Grandfathering those changes to anyone that paid before the date of change.

    They've done this before, with the sub. Preventing anyone buying expansions with their VIP points, where it was always possible before, thereby, changing the terms of the contract.

    Would they do it though? That's a question and a half. I doubt it would help with attracting new players - which is why it was put there in the first place. Saying that, they most likely knew that changing the terms of the subscription to include less for the money (which it now does) would result in less people subbing, but they did it anyway.

    I guess I just don't understand how it can take a business 10 years to realise one of its product policies is a mistake.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  2. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    I guess I just don't understand how it can take a business 10 years to realise one of its product policies is a mistake.
    Because it's not a mistake, Sev is just saying excuses. And I really think his comments about this are really bad, what I fail to understand is how a business of a decade of experience can do such kind of mistakes.

    One of the reasons that VIP is attractive is because the permanent ex VIP features. Right now, if I decide to create a new alt, I will buy a month of VIP sooner or later. If they remove swift travel etc, even if just for new ones, maintaining it in old characters, I will never buy VIP again. It feels like a feature that you can only acquire with real money, needed for any new character. Sounds fine for me.

    I understand that if you don't mind paying a sub, you see this as losing value. But you must understand the other side too. They can add value to VIP, and in my opinion, removing ex VIP features will remove even more value.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  3. #253
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    13,124
    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    Because it's not a mistake, Sev is just saying excuses. And I really think his comments about this are really bad, what I fail to understand is how a business of a decade of experience can do such kind of mistakes.

    One of the reasons that VIP is attractive is because the permanent ex VIP features. Right now, if I decide to create a new alt, I will buy a month of VIP sooner or later. If they remove swift travel etc, even if just for new ones, maintaining it in old characters, I will never buy VIP again. It feels like a feature that you can only acquire with real money, needed for any new character. Sounds fine for me.

    I understand that if you don't mind paying a sub, you see this as losing value. But you must understand the other side too. They can add value to VIP, and in my opinion, removing ex VIP features will remove even more value.
    I think you're mistaken. I very much do mind paying a sub. Which is why I don't anymore, and won't, while it has no value. I won't even buy it for one month, for swift travel on a new alt, because I would then be supporting it in the sorry state it's in now.

    You say it was not a mistake, I think it was, and has been for a long time, but I concur, it would not be a good idea to get rid of it now, which is why this conundrum exists and why regular subbers are in contrast to one timers. Not anyone's fault, it is what it is. But they have to make a move on this one way or the other if they want to fix it, and they either annoy those paying regularly, or those paying one offs. I don't think there is a solution in between. They have the numbers and they can do all the crunching to find which option gains or loses them the most.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  4. #254
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,414
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    They've done this before, with the sub. Preventing anyone buying expansions with their VIP points, where it was always possible before, thereby, changing the terms of the contract.
    But this wasn't even in the contract though? And even if it is - you can still buy the Expansions, you just can't buy them on release - all about the wording.

  5. #255
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    2,411
    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    Because it's not a mistake, Sev is just saying excuses. And I really think his comments about this are really bad, what I fail to understand is how a business of a decade of experience can do such kind of mistakes.

    One of the reasons that VIP is attractive is because the permanent ex VIP features. Right now, if I decide to create a new alt, I will buy a month of VIP sooner or later. If they remove swift travel etc, even if just for new ones, maintaining it in old characters, I will never buy VIP again. It feels like a feature that you can only acquire with real money, needed for any new character. Sounds fine for me.

    I understand that if you don't mind paying a sub, you see this as losing value. But you must understand the other side too. They can add value to VIP, and in my opinion, removing ex VIP features will remove even more value.
    It's called double charge. You overpay for VIP to get not only features what you need, but also you get features what you already have. Adding more opinions for players remove some value from VIP, but can be welcomed from fans and potentialy allow developers get money from other sources.

  6. #256
    Not sure if people replying to me is understanding my point as a person who don't want to sub for renting, so I just give up.

    In short words: for me, paying for renting is equal to zero value. If paying for renting unlock some permanent features, it adds value. For a person who don't mind paying sub, I understand that this conception is different.

    I just hope they don't remove ex VIP features.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  7. #257
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    13,124
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    But this wasn't even in the contract though? And even if it is - you can still buy the Expansions, you just can't buy them on release - all about the wording.
    Yep, it is all about the wording, and really, from a legal standpoint, they're not very on the ball with that wording.

    The main VIP page has changed now, but it used to say that the 500 TP (note, turbine points, because it changed when they were turbine points) could be used to buy content. Given VIP's could only buy expansions, and not quest packs, that's pretty clear. It did not say that the 500 Turbine points could be used to buy content . . . at a later date. Omission, doesn't cut it and never will.

    Which brings us to the new VIP page, which states.

    Access All Quest Packs and Skirmishes*

    Note the asterisk.

    **Mordor™, Helm's Deep™, Riders of Rohan™, Rise of Isengard™, Mines of Moria™ and Siege of Mirkwood™ are not included.

    That's not worded correctly either. It would lead a person entering the financial contract, knowing no difference through experience, to believe that Minas Morgul and War of Three Peaks is included.

    Also worth noting on the new page, that reference to all permanent unlocks (except Swift Travel being permanent, following the compare button) have been removed, even though they still exist in game, there is nothing written about them on the VIP page anymore.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Today at 02:30 AM.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  8. #258
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    13,124
    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    Not sure if people replying to me is understanding my point as a person who don't want to sub for renting, so I just give up.

    In short words: for me, paying for renting is equal to zero value. If paying for renting unlock some permanent features, it adds value. For a person who don't mind paying sub, I understand that this conception is different.

    I just hope they don't remove ex VIP features.
    I fully understand that you prefer not to pay to rent, that is your prerogative. Some people do pay to rent though, a lot of them in fact, given the recent information released surrounding the Sale of Daybreak, and those people, want their money's worth, and some don't appreciate major changes to what they are paying for, half way through their contract.

    Really, its very simple. If SSG wish to tie people into a contract for a year, and moneys are taken, then nothing should change for that year. If it changes out on the general new VIP contract, fair enough, but those tied in for a year, should get everything that they purchased - for that whole year. Not half of of, some of it or almost all of it - all of it.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  9. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    I fully understand that you prefer not to pay to rent, that is your prerogative. Some people do pay to rent though, a lot of them in fact, given the recent information released surrounding the Sale of Daybreak, and those people, want their money's worth, and some don't appreciate major changes to what they are paying for, half way through their contract.

    Really, its very simple. If SSG wish to tie people into a contract for a year, and moneys are taken, then nothing should change for that year. If it changes out on the general new VIP contract, fair enough, but those tied in for a year, should get everything that they purchased - for that whole year. Not half of of, some of it or almost all of it - all of it.
    I ask you a simple question.

    If they remove ex VIP permanent features, do you think VIP value is increased?
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  10. #260
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    13,124
    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    I ask you a simple question.

    If they remove ex VIP permanent features, do you think VIP value is increased?
    No, I don't, nor have I ever said as much. Those benefits have been there forever, since I began playing, and they've never got in the way as far as I'm concerned. In fact, I was rather surprised when they were brought up on the stream as something that shouldn't really be in place, after it's been there for a very long time.

    That all said, those permanent unlocks can, and do, stop some from running a sub for longer than a month. There is no getting away from that fact. You know, because that's how you sub. So while I think removing them from ex VIP's ( as in, anyone who has already purchased them through a one month sub) wouldn't make any difference, removing them . . . going forward, would be quite different.

    The removal of rented content however, and the ability to buy expansions with pre-purchased VIP points does decrease the value, and in quite a big way. That of course, doesn't apply to you, because you don't sub to rent. Many do though and their payments are ongoing.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  11. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    No, I don't, nor have I ever said as much. Those benefits have been there forever, since I began playing, and they've never got in the way as far as I'm concerned. In fact, I was rather surprised when they were brought up on the stream as something that shouldn't really be in place, after it's been there for a very long time.

    That all said, those permanent unlocks can, and do, stop some from running a sub for longer than a month. There is no getting away from that fact. You know, because that's how you sub. So while I think removing them from ex VIP's ( as in, anyone who has already purchased them through a one month sub) wouldn't make any difference, removing them . . . going forward, would be quite different.

    The removal of rented content however, and the ability to buy expansions with pre-purchased VIP points does decrease the value, and in quite a big way. That of course, doesn't apply to you, because you don't sub to rent. Many do though and their payments are ongoing.
    I don't agree about permanent unlocks making people to not sub. With permanent unlocks, I sub when I get a new alt. Without permanent unlocks, I would never sub.

    The reason people don't sub is not because permanent unlocks. Because without permanent unlocks, they surely wouldn't sub.

    I'd like a person who would sub if permanent unlocks were removed to show yourself, please.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neuschwanstein, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgilio, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  12. #262
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    13,124
    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    I don't agree about permanent unlocks making people to not sub. With permanent unlocks, I sub when I get a new alt. Without permanent unlocks, I would never sub.

    The reason people don't sub is not because permanent unlocks. Because without permanent unlocks, they surely wouldn't sub.

    I'd like a person who would sub if permanent unlocks were removed to show yourself, please.
    Firstly and before I go into any explainations, I did not say "permanent unlocks making people to not sub"

    I said that they can contribute to making a player not sub for longer periods, not that it would prevent them subbing at all. You are living proof of it, you sub for unlocks, and unlocks only. Therefore, you only sub for one month, to get unlocks, instead of subbing permanently. Sure, you may not sub at all without them, but equally, some players may sub permanently for them. Swings and Roundabouts.

    There are lots of players that sub in this game, for a year, straight off the bat, without any knowledge that some of the perks are permanent. I was one of them. I didn't sub for those unlocks, I didn't know about them, and Swift travel was the least of my concerns, as I was only in Bree at the time. In fact, I didn't even know that swift travel was a thing that you couldn't get without a sub, as I could swift travel from the Shire to Bree before I subbed. I assumed the others would open up as I levelled. I was a new player and was loving the game, so I subbed up and bought all the expansions that were available (all up to Rohan) on the LOTRO marketplace. I had no idea that I could get trait slots unlocked for good, because I didn't even know that they wouldn't unlock without a sub. I did know that I couldn't ride a horse while I was playing, but I didn't know why, or care why. I went everywhere on foot until at least level 25, and then I found the riding quest at Henstacer.

    I subbed for content, and did so for years, even though I did learn that many of the things I'd unlocked with that very first sub were permanent. That continued until Mordor, and the change that we could no longer buy expansions with points. Even though I'd bought West Rohan for real money and fully intended buying Mordor for real money, while still continuing to sub, the second they released that new direction, for me, the sub value dropped, and I'll tell you (and SSG) exactly why.

    It wasn't the cost. As I already said, I had no problem keeping my sub going and buying the top pack of Mordor (just as I had done for years), but what if, one year, I found myself in a less favourable financial position? Would the $100 a year on top of paying for content be affordable? If not, and I'd already subbed, then I'd have to wait to play new content. That made me think of all the other players that may have already been in that position, subbed, and with no way to afford more money on top of what they were already paying - having to wait to play content.

    For me, that's no way to treat paying customers. At the very least, people already paying into the game should have the option to buy the base pack with points - always. I'd have bought the top pack for money, always, as long as it was financially affordable (which it always has been).

    Hence my current position. When Mordor hit I purchased it at base price (not the ultimate price I has planned on top of my sub), along with the whole game as soon as my sub expired, every quest pack, every skirmish, every instance that wasn't included outside of the sub. There was my reason for subbing - dead and buried. I only sub now if I want something out of it, access to LS for a little while or Moors (extremely rare) for example, and those are both scattered occurrences for me, and now that the LS is going to hit essences and Imbued LI's, I'll very likely retire from that server completely.

    So you see, not everyone subs for unlocks, they are not important to everyone, and not everyone knows about them even. I've lost count of how many times I've had to explain to new players that they exist, and even then, most of them sub for more than a month.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Today at 01:47 PM.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


 

 
Page 11 of 11 FirstFirst ... 7 8 9 10 11

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload