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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    The Shire

    MP - CREEP side ideas

    Fine Print
    About me: life long Shire resident. No hate or anything for Creep side. Have not gone to moors a lot, why? Because the rest of the game keeps getting built out and MPes seem to get nothing? (well now and there they have their morale increased, but in 2020 there seems a lot of non % based absolute numbers for Masterys resistances and such. Considering that Free people side is approaching 1 million in numbers (anyone got 1 million yet? people are solidly on 800K) well it has to be a BIG overhaul not just a "re-balance".

    Upcoming Update notes:

    I am a very late and still very casual convert to PvMP.

    Most of my experience with the idea comes from listening on on the voice chat of at that time top PvMP kin on our server.
    We had some of the best and highly nuanced players spend time with a lot of satisfaction in the moors.

    There was always a number of situation when a creep would run up and wave and people from both sides would just congregate.
    Then there be times when raids would take place, obviously as well.

    Biggest issue of the PvMP, PvP, moors, whatever one wants to call it is that there are never enough creeps.
    Mind you they do exist and many people have freeps characters and creep character alike.
    And sometimes one can get a feeling that a person logs in on freep side, takes outpost or something, then logs in on crep side and retakes it right back.
    All on same account.

    If one was to read forums there is a HUGE amount of sarcasm anger and dissatisfaction with the fact that many people would like to run their creep side characters but it is just so dated and limited.
    As some one put it: "it's still same as Shadows of Angmar time period"

    Currently we have warg pens without wargs; scuttledells without spiders, isengard pits without orks and mordor without uruks.
    One should not waste time on trolls as these were not updated along side of others at all and there are no goblins to play as of yet.
    Oh yes and when gundabad to come out, will there be any orks there(?) -no, you guessed it.

    Proposed ideas to add to the MP side.

    -I would NOT go into details of stats,
    as I feel these must really be left to devs unless there is an outcry for a boost or as often is the case on these forums,
    for the lack of anything else: nerf.
    However creeps stats feel like they really are just unevenly bumped from the time of SoA.


    If one was to type into google: "How many classes is there in lotro?" the answer will be 10.
    -It's a shame. As there is 4,5 races and 7 classes more that are not even remembered or takes seriously. Orks, Uruks, Wargs, Spiders and never played Troll.

    Why not make these into following lineup:
    Troll (make them into an actual race class to play, not a seession play or whatever that no one ever uses)
    Goblin (add for fairness sake)


    -Introduce creation screen along the line of free people
    races on one side, classes on the other. To make it all clear and intuitive.
    Discover : Backstory, function, origin.....

    Outside Moors

    Creeps should have no access to: PvP, Cities, Instances, World Chat.

    Allow all MP characters roam in many areas where their counterparts are in residence. Enabling them one by one, with care.
    -Mordor seems like an obvious one to start. Minas Morgul is surely one other. Introduce simple landscape hunting:
    MP characters could take sides and in each scenario should have their own unique enemies.

    Retain PVP to the zones of conflict as is moors. And disable PvP outside of these zones.

    The whole idea should become more and more along the lines of realm vs realm.
    -As we currently have an extremely well built Free People Realm, Monster Play Characters need quite a bit of building on their side. It's really strange that they all kinda spawn in a small tent and that is nearly all we have for "the realm"??

    This would allow MP characters to roam around in a much larger area, and would not bother free people as PvP would not be an issue.

    Introduce something like a trait / gear / trait panel: "amulets" and make it possible to equip un-equip directly from the bag. Make them a random drop one per area. "Mordor Morale Amulet" "Isengard Damage Amulet" "Mirkwood Mitigation Amulet" that would become an incentive to visit these areas.

    In general, it would be (in my opinion only) not fun to introduce gear and jewelry to creep side. But if there was a unique additional slot that could use a special to creep side drop, would not that be fun?

    Round up

    Make it bigger,
    Make it a bit more varied,
    Bring it somewhat "in line" interface wise with free people side.

    Just few thoughts on this great, seemingly abandoned part of the game that does provide a very good contrast to the main PvE (even if one does not do much of PvP, it is still many more characters, classes, races that are currently somewhat abandoned and caged in)
    Last edited by Areyekuwe; Nov 17 2020 at 11:53 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    The Shire

    Excellent post in another thread.

    An excellent post that covers all the bases, please read, consider:


    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post


    For the PVMP Update

    (it's been 7 years since the last one)

    The questions to answer are:

    #1: Where is PVMP in total now?

    #2: Where should it be?

    #1 Where is PVMP in total now?

    In a few words: Grossly imbalanced in every measurable way

    Due to PVMP not receiving any development since the lvl 85 cap expansion "Riders of Rohan" almost 7 years ago,
    the disparity between creeps and freeps in various situations has expanded to the point where most action has become
    woefully unattractive for all parties involved.


    [1] DPS/Healing-to-Morale ratio

    The amount of DPS and HPS that both sides are able to put out is too high in comparison to the size of the respective morale pools/defenses, leading to the widely undesirable phenomenon of 1-shotting or dying nearly instantly to a single opponent.

    Freeps especially do more DPS as compared to the size of creep morale pools than creeps can do to freep morale pools. Freep DPS overall compared with creep morale pools is greater than creep DPS compared to freep morale pools in almost every situation. Numerous freep abilities have the ability to kill one or several full-morale high ranked creeps instantly in a single hit or otherwise doom them to a nearly instantaneous death.

    [2] Dispairity in Defensive Debuffing abilities

    Freep abilities that reduce the amount of damage creeps can put out are many times more potent than creep abilities to reduce freep damage. Freep have numerous potent abilities to reduce creep damage across their many classes that stack with each other.

    Outgoing damage debuffs on freepside range in potency from -10% to -50% outgoing damage. These directly subtract from creep outgoing damage stats derived from mastery, which fluctuate between +50% and +150%. Creep outgoing damage can easily be set zero or negative by freep debuffs.

    Creep outgoing damage debuffs are at most -10% outgoing damage straight up, with the -mainstat debuffs giving barely any damage reduction from loss of mastery. None of the debuffs of the same skill stack and creepside has fewer classes than freepside, meaning fewer opportunities to stack between classes. On average, freep outgoing damage stats can exceed +300% with buffs. Creep -outgoing damage debuffs barely dent the massive freep damage outputs.

    Miss chance debuff on freepside range from +5% to +35%, with many opportunities to stack debuffs. 3 of the 4 creep DPS classes are vulnerable to miss chance debuffs (warg, reaver, BA), with the miss chance leading to a direct loss of DPS proportional to the debuff (a warg that did 1000 DPS would do only 650 dps after receiving a 35% dust from burg). It is easy to get several creeps up to 50% miss chance with only 2 freeps, and almost 100% with the right class mix.
    Creep miss debuffs range from 7% to 20%, with only 3 miss debuffs available across the whole of creepside, effecting 7 of 10 freep classes, with the maximum miss chance debuff attainable for 6 of those 7 being 27% (spider webs and reaver dust). Hunters can be brought up to 47% miss chance only if Plauge of Flies is within 5 meters of them AND dust+webs are present, but the flies are easily killed with a single AOE hit from any class.

    [3] Dispairty in Curing Abilities

    Every Freep class has a cure ability that cures between 1 and 3 status effects, mostly on cooldowns that are 15 seconds or less, and some are on 0s. Many cure abilities are AOE and some can cure multiple status effects on an entire raid or fellowship. In addition, freeps can use consumable cure pots on 30s cooldowns, and can use special items and skills to make themselves immune to some curable status effects like silence and disarm. Creep bleed abilities are easily wiped out by these cures. Freeps can easily cure many -outgoing damage and +miss chance debuffs applied by creeps.
    Creeps have absolutely no ability to cure effects on themselves beyond cure pots on 30s cooldowns, and no ability to cure others, despite there being many orders of magnitude more status effects available for freeps to apply to creeps. Creeps cannot effectively cure -outgoing damage and +miss chance debuffs on themselves due to the long cooldown of the pot cure and its inaccuracy. Creeps cannot effectively eliminate freep bleed abilities either, as most are non-curable.

    [4] Dispairity in mitigation debuffs

    Freeps have many mitigation reducing and penetrating skills that stack between classes to virtually eliminate all creep mitigation. Creeps, unlike freep, convert 100% of their Armour rating into tactical and physical mitigation points, and freeps have many powerful -armour rating debuffs which are easy to apply, stack, and maintain on creeps, and often creep armour ratings are zeroed out after only 1-2 debuffs. Many classes also have skills that directly subtract from the opponents mitigation percentage, and all of these debuffs stack. It is extremely easy to bring even a full mitigation corruption creep's mitigation percentages down to 0% with only a handful of freeps. In addition, many skills and bonuses for certain freep traitlines allow for the direct penetration of damage through mitigation, ranging from 10% to 15% penetration, no debuffs required. This excess of debuffs is why many creeps reporting feelings that mitigation corruptions ''dont make a difference'', and its is primarily because they are being brought to 0% mitigation regardless of their trait setup.

    Creeps have only a handful of mitigation-reduction options. Armour rends from Blackarrows and Reavers only have a limited effect, because freeps derive most of their mitigation from Essences, only 20% of the armour rating is converted to mitigation (NOTE: Orc craft/fell wrought mitigation is derived through the 20% conversion, unlike the rest of the physical mitigation stat). And some freeps run overcapped mitigation, meaning the armour rend may do nothing at all because the freep is built with extra mitigation on hand.

    [5] Dispairity in -Inc Damage and +Inc Damage buffs.

    Freeps have, by default, -30% incoming damage from Audacity bonus when entering a PVMP zone. This bonus stacks with the commonly-used Tome of Defence and class-specific bonuses, meaning most freeps without group buffs are running -40% to -50% incoming damage. With groupwide and targeted defence buffs, freeps can easily get to -60% and some classes can get up to -80% with the right group. There is also a class that can get up to -88% with the right buffs, and it has been demonstrated as recently as early 2019.
    Creeps start with -40% from audacity, and can get an additional -4% from food, but no more. Tomes of Defense are rare on creepside, so most creeps are running -44% incoming damage, with no ability to get more. However, in many fights, creeps effectively have far far less than that.

    Freeps have a huge array of +Inc Damage buffs and marks that act as direct antagonists to the -inc damage stat, and some of these marks stack. With only 2 freeps, a creep can be debuffed by +41% inc damage, effectively eliminating all benefits from Audacity and food. Oathbraker's shame alone combined with the captain mark eliminates it as well. There are dozens of ways to completely strip a creep of any Audacity protection, effectively putting them at the level of an NPC in terms of defenses.
    Meanwhile, Creeps only have 2 puny +inc damage skills that are actually reliable on a target: Warg Rend Flesh and Defiler Curse of the Rotten Flesh, which add up to a grand total of: +15% incoming damage. Creeps cannot effectively counter colossal freep defenses with debuffs, but freeps can breeze past creep audacity and then some.

    [6] Dispairity in DPS variety and type

    Freeps have MASSIVE aoe dps abilities. 5/10 freep classes can be AOE DPS oriented and another 3 have significant AOE DPS skills they can contribute. For classes like burg, the AOE dps often does more damage to every single target than their single target skills. Some of these AOE skills, such as loremaster Lighting Storm, can 1-shot creeps not specifically traited against it. A loremaster coming up to a creep group and 1-shotting multiple people is a common occurrence. It is extremely difficult for creep healers to outheal freep AOE, because the primary AOE creep healing class, the Warleader, has not had its heals scaled and has a hard time getting a heal off in an AOE and CC rich environment.

    Creeps DPSers on the other hand, have almost no AOE damage abilities to speak of. The only class with some semblance of AOE DPS, the Reaver, has not had its skill damage scaled appropriately. Even if creeps were to attain some AOE damage, It would be easily outhealed by freep healers, most of which are either partially or entirely AOE healing primarily geared towards healing through the huge AOE dps in the current PVE raiding environment.

    This has resulted in the freeps utilizing an ''AOE Zerg'' where freeps simply stack champions/burgs/loremasters and run into a collection of creeps, where they can get multiple kills at the same time by simply AOEing in a given area near the target, killing so fast that no one has time to move out of the way.

    [7] Dispairity in self-healing Abilities

    Every freep now has reliable and significant self healing abilities, but of the non-healing creep classes, only 1 out of 4 (Reaver) has any semblance of a reliable self-heal. This means many solo freeps can build maximum tankmode and outlast and wear down any creep that crosses their path, making soloing for non-warg creeps difficult. Many of the self healing abilities the other 3 classes are either not scaled or on long cooldowns.

    [8] Dispairity in Incoming healing buffs/deuffs

    Freeps have many abilities to increase the amount of incoming healing for themselves and others, such as +inc healing rating buffs innate to their class/LIs/race, class skills, and class traits. These +inc buffs are direct antagonists to -inc healing debuffs creeps can apply. Between the many +inc healing buffs the freeps have, many freeps getting healed can be between +20% and +50% additional inc healing. This severely reduces the typical creep healing debuff of -50% single target, effectively making it between -30% and -0%. The strongest creep healing debuff, Blight, an neon-yellow, often-resisted small 5x5m ground puddle on 30s cooldown, puts out -75% inc healing, but can be almost completely negated by a captain banner (+30% inc heal AOE) combined with the aforementioned typical healing buffs.

    Creeps, on the other hand, have no ability to increase their incoming healing beyond the standard defiler +15% from spores, so they take much more of the freep healing debuffs. Creeps feel the force of the common -50% inc healing debuff from Hunters and Captains with no major way to counter. In addition, several freep classes have some weaker -30% incoming healing debuffs. The Runekeeper has an AOE -30% incomng healing debuff.

    [9] Dispairity in Slowing Abilities

    Freeps have many slowing abilities that apply and maintain 40%-60% slows and methods of stacking slows (Champion's Challenge, Fulgrite Runestone). Many are AOE slows. These slows severely disrupt melee creep DPS, which has limited means to dispel them that often bug or don't work.
    Creeps only have 1 AOE -50% slow (Spider Web Earth), which is basically a weaker version of Loremaster Tar, with a shorter duration and cooldown, and no additional debuffs. The strongest slow that can be maintained constantly is 40% for creeps with BA hinder on a 5s cooldown, while freep Hunter can maintain 60% slow with quickshot on 0s cooldown.

    Freeps have many AOE speed-boosting abilities that help negate slows such as Captain's Make Haste and Beorning Rush, but creeps have no such abilities, with the best being a 1m cooldown AOE slow removal by WL that costs a significant amount of morale to use. In addition, Champions and Guardians have long-duration in-combat sprints that prevent them from being slowed, sprints that are more effective than warg sprint and attaining a group v group combat advantage.

    [10] Dispairity in Crowd Control Abilities

    Freeps have an enormous variety of CC, especially AOE CC, at their disposal to lock down or disrupt creep movements, skill uses, and strategy. One of the most egregious offenders are Runekeeprs, with their Armour of the Elements mez-reflect, Vivid Imagery AOE mez, and Fulgrite Runestone aoe slow+stun on 3s cooldown. In some fights, an individual can be locked up and be unable to do anything until diminishing returns make them immune. Every freep had a CC-breakout class skill and has the ability to break out using a stun/root pot and a brand, giving freeps 3 CC-breakout routes.

    Creeps have a limited amount of CC on relatively long cooldowns, and only 1 reliable Mez on a 20s cooldown from Spiders. Only reaver/WL has a CC breakout skill, with the WL costing morale. The rest of the creeps have only 2 breakouts. In addition, Loremasters have the ability to keep up to 2 people permanently immune to stuns/roots/knockdowns... creeps have no such abilities.

    [11] Dispairity in Rez-Quality

    4 out of 10 freep classes have in-combat rez abilities, with the captain rez being able to pick up 2 people at a time, and the Runekeeper being able to keep DNF on 2 people at a time regardless of traiting/line. The others are single-target rezzes. In a freep group, there may be multiple individuals beyond the healers who are able to rez. This distributed rez ability makes it difficult to eliminate all rezzing ability from a freep group by targeting their source of rezzes.

    The only creep class that can rez is WL, and while the rez can pick up 5 people at a time, it is rarely used on a max number of targets, but instead is used on smaller numbers of people. Due to Lanchester's Laws, WL must pop their rez early to maintain creep fighting ability, usually with only 1-3 dead depending on the size of the group. This means creeps often have effectively fewer rez opportunities compared to freeps in engagements smaller than 24v24. In addition, the fact that all rezzing ability is concentrated in the WL means that freeps often simply target the WLs to eliminate all rez abilities and thus end the fight.

    [12] Dispairity in Emergency Skills

    Creeps have relatively few emergency skills compared to the modern freep, and what few skills they have are objectively weaker. While guardians have a fullheal, 10s invincibility+fullheal, and access to Guardian's Pledge while in redline, Reavers have.... nothing. While minstrels can play Possum, Beorns have Sacrifice, Runekeeprs have Fates, and Captains can self-bubble... Warleaders have nothing, and can't bubble themselves. Beorn Sacrifice allows the beorn to heal and guardian sheildwall allows them to move and fight, but Defiler Blessing of Darkness locks them in a channel, unmovable and with no healing. Burgs can double HIPS but wargs have only one. By every measure, freeps have better tools for survival and saving other people.

    [13] Exponential VS Linear Scaling

    Many creep abilities do not stack with each other, while many Freep abilities do. Freeps in general get exponentially more powerful the more people they have involved in a group or fight (if you have twice the players, you have much more than twice the killing/healing/debuffing power), whereas creeps grow more linearly (twice the creeps is only slightly more than twice the dps/healing/debuffing). This means that after a certain point, the number of creeps needed to counter a geared freep raid exceeds twice the number due to the factors mentioned above.

    [14] Dispairity Between Freeps

    Freep gearing is now such that the difference between a full-gold-essence raid geared freep and a standard-geared freep has become enormous such that it is impossible to balance the current uniform creepside against both.

    If you balance against the standard geared freeps, the raid geared freeps will completely wipe the floor with the creeps

    If you balance against the raid geared freeps, the standard geared freeps will be helpless

    In the past, the semi-mandatory audacity-gear system created a more uniformly geared freepside to balance creeps against, but that system has long since been rendered moot.

    To ever balance creeps, freep stat distributions need to be more uniform than the extremes we see currently.

    #2 Where should PVMP be?

    According to pretty much everyone: It should be BALANCED

    But what is balance? There's been a lot of discussion about that, a lot of complicated definitions and philosophizing about what it means and what it would look like. However, everyone seems to agree that the balance was better in the past, and is worse now, which brings up the question of what exactly was it about the past PVMP environment that made it better.

    If we go all the way back to the "original" PVMP era between Shadows of Angmar at lvl 50 and Seige of Mirkwood at lvl 65, we can see that both creepside and freepside as a whole were equal in their abilities and their stats in relation to their opponent. That is to say, the same tools were available to both sides, and the potency of those tools was equal between the two sides. In fact, we can actually "see" and "play" the original freep classes through the current creep classes, as almost all their abilities were direct equals to their freep counterparts, abeit mixed-and-matched between creep classes and given their own creep "flavor"

    Reaver "dust" used to be nearly identical to the Burglar "trick: dust in the eyes"
    Blackarrow "Vital Target" used to be nearly identical to Hunter's "Heartseeker"
    Spider "Paralytic venom" used to be nearly identical to Loremaster's "Blinding Flash",
    etc. Of course, each skill was slightly altered, but the general effects were very similar.

    This is not to argue that both sides were or should be mirrors of each other.... merely that both sides were, as a whole , given the same tools with the same potency.
    As time went on however, freeps (and to a lesser extent, creeps) evolved via development.... but while freeps continued to develop all the way through till today, creeps have been left in the past, and no longer have any parity to freep abilities, as explained in the problems section.

    something must be done to address the disparities and promote action where player decisions have meaning and consequence

    "slapping on some morale and mits" is not a solution anymore.
    "scaling up the ratings" is not a solution anymore

    If the devs merely do what they have been doing for the past 7 years, we will end up with a PVMP experience that continues to be broken in favor of one side or the other.

    Another problem: The Map

    The Ettenmoors and Osgilliath both had fundamental design flaws that pretty much everyone agrees has made the already abysmal action worse. The list of small issues is long, but the list of big issues is short:

    The Ettenmoors "Backdoor Shuffle"

    The "backdoors" of keeps like Tirith Raw, Tol Ascarnen, and Lugzag were terribly implemented to be usable in-combat, providing instant safety to anyone with the same affiliation as the keep.
    This has led players to huddle around the doors for safety, and preventing any opposing force from pushing forward at all. This has led to the dreaded and hated (HATED) "backdoor shuffle", were one side pushes from a position of absolute safety to their opponent's position of absolute safety, then retreats back while the other side pushes. This has led to hours/days of "back and forth" betten Gramsfoot/Lugzag and Tirith Raw/Glan Vraig.

    This is further made worse by the fact that all "keeps" or fortresses have almost no defensive value or gradient beyond their positions of absolute safety (the 1-shotting NPCs at GV/Grams and the backdoors of the keeps). There exist almost no defensive gradients anywhere in the zone and practically all NPCs are completely useless.

    In the "classic" days, even the weakest NPCs were to be reckoned with and gradients existed in many places, but now there are practically none.

    The Osgilliath Center Bridge Shuffle & Inf/Ren buffs

    Anyone can see that the Osgilliath map had a lot of elbow grease put into it, but sadly, the one massive design flaw that doomed it was somehow not caught: THE MASSIVE SHUFFLE BRIDGE IN THE CENTER. No defensive gradients exist along it and it is a direct route between the 1-shotters of the opposing sides. This encourages the worst and most boring action that no one wants to partake in. The center bridge must be made less "shuffle friendly" if the map is ever to be used.

    In addition, the map lacks the same magnitude of infamy/renown bonuses of the Ettenmoors, making it unappealing for both sides.

    Perhaps consider alternating the map (Ettenmoors/Osgilliath) on which Infamy/Renown bonuses exist on every few weeks to encourage its use?

    PVMP has been neglected so long that a simple band-aid fix will NOT improve the situation. Serious development is required, otherwise the decline in population and interest will continue and accelerate


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    The Shire
    Another interesting thread. It just asks for much needed attention to the PvMP.


    Like here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzuriha_EN View Post
    Hello everyone, as all of us can notice, there's never a staff response in order to PvMP ideas, suggestions or even asking a simple interest from the company in this part of the game.

    The purposal from this thread is not to give ideas or suggestions, the purposal of ths thread is to show Standing Stone Games and their Staff the large amount of players who demands work on LotRO PvMP.

    This way I want to invite everyone who wants PvMP being developed as it deserves to sign this thread, perhaps, if we are loud enough, SSG will finally listen to us, give us the replies we need, and interact with their players, it's not time to stay quiet giving ideas who are going to get ignored for years, it's time tofight for our PvMP.

    And I also think it's worth a minute if by this way we can make anything change, this is not a fight because we all must be together, we all must claim a decent PvMP and a responsible reaction from the company we all are or were paying for this game.

    LotRO PvMP is a concept who involves two factions, Free Peoples and Monster Players. We fight at the grounds but it's time to stand together and try to make those blue names notice it's not a matter of a minority. Let's make them see the number of players we are wanting, because i know the number is very high.

    Said that, I am the first to sign this demand.

    Thanks in advance.

    Yuzuriha from Evernight.
    Or take a look here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Olebenny View Post
    I dont even go to the moors but I would love to see it worked on in a serious manner


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    The Shire

    Upcoming update 28.2 and discussion

    This is a longer thread discussing the update in the works


    Here is original text and the thread had a lot of posts (actually), testing:

    Quote Originally Posted by Spilo View Post
    Monster Play:
    Major changes to how monster player stats are wired up behind the scenes, to make them advance more consistently with player stats when we level bump or generally restat the game, AND to allow us to easily give Creeps incremental ratings bumps to keep pace with player itemization over the course of a full level cap cycle.
    Creeps now also receive a generic multiplier to base HP and Damage to help keep pace with player itemization, this multiplier can also be quickly updated to let us bump creeps whenever new content is released with higher ilevel itemization for Freeps.
    Lots of tweaking to specific Creep base rating values as well as trait and skill ratings values.
    Creeps will now generally start with significantly better ratings even before they add corruptions.
    Physical Mitigation corruptions now ALSO give B/P/E boosts.
    Tactical Mitigation Corruptions now ALSO give Resistance.
    Resistance corruptions still exist, but they will probably be replaced/altered when we have a chance to expand the corruption tray and do a more deliberate pass on corruptions.
    Updated a lot of morale/power regen sources, including monster player skills/traits, and many consumables for both freeps and creeps.
    Finished major damage/heal normalization pass.
    Bumped a lot of their weaker damage skills.
    Made a number of aoe's non fellowship dependent.


    Post feedback/testing results below!
    Here is one reply from the dev in charge:

    (lets hope that he does change ALL skills without leaving one broken here and one broken there)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Hey folks. This is the 'changelist' for PvMP in Bullroarer - it doesn't include specifics, because the bulk of the changes were broad and systemic. There were a number of individual skill tweaks, but the sweeping changes are really the more important ones for this pass, in order to get the general balance into a workable range before dealing with more detailed issues. (such as broken blackarrow skills )

    Here's the summary:

    - Creep skills/traits have largely been normalized in the manner that player skills have been, to make them more automagically keep pace with general changes to the games stats, and make it easier for us to rebalance them.

    - Most Creep skills/traits are now tied to an ilevel track behind the scenes, that will allow us to tweak them each time the players gain access to a new tier of gear, so that we don't encounter the problem with players outgearing creeps.

    - Similarly, Creeps now recieve a base vitality and damage bonus intended to roughly mirror player vitality and damage gains with ilevel.

    - A number of creep skills were tweaked in terms of their base damage or healing to try to bring them more in line with each other - by no means a comprehensive pass however.

    This is quite a large change, and we don't have a good sense of where the current balance lands, so I encourage anyone interested in PvMP to go poke it with a stick and report back their findings.



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