We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 88
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    3 Harrow Rd., Bamborings, Shire
    Posts
    1,627

    I have and will pay to support this game, NOT cynical dishonesty and disrespect.

    EDIT1
    TL;DR FOR THE BUSINESS FOLKS:

    1) I always have and will continue to spend a reasonable amount money on this game IF you provide self-evident value for it. (carry alls, travel skills, fun collectibles like mounts etc, ongoing story content in the form of full expansions)
    2) I have and will optimistically spend MORE money on this game if you give communication and explanation as to the value for it. (dev diaries like we had once upon a time)
    3) I WILL SPENT STUPID AMOUNTS OF MONEY SUPPORTING THIS GAME IF YOU CONVINCE ME IT WILL GO TOWARD MAINTAINING/IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF THE GAME. (like the LP bundles I have purchased in the pack despite being a life timer, or like the year subscriptions to DDO I purchased when you did great pro-customer moves such as the free period this spring and summer because it was THE ONLY MEANINGFUL WAY I COULD GIVE YOU MONEY)
    You are at this point in time meeting none of these conditions.

    EDIT2: Finally some (potential) good news, though of course SSG itself continues to be completely uninvolved with any sort of news for its customers: https://massivelyop.com/2020/10/30/l...game-producer/

    Original Post:

    When you guys gave away virtually all of LotRO and DDO's content this summer I thought it was wonderful. As a lifetime VIP, I didn't actually gain anything in LotRO from this promotion, but I valued the good business and value that it represented, that I turned around and bought a full year's VIP sub in DDO (a game which I have barely played, but not for lack of appreciation). I'd done that before! I've bought every LotRO expansion through Helm's Deep at the highest tier, and LP bundles fairly often to spend on things that had value to me like premium housing, storage space, collectible mounts, appealing cosmetics, more convenient travel options and carry-alls and the like.

    When you offer value, when you offer a clear vision of continuing to bring us fans more of this delightful Middle-earth experience, I'm not just happy to support it, I'm EAGER! I go out of my way! And I know I'm not alone.

    But it's been a long time since you offered that.

    Mordor and Minas Morgul expansions I bought the bare minimum, because the content itself was the only thing of value offered. If you had asked for more as a donation, as patronage for future investment in the game, I would have obliged as my budget allowed. BUT YOU DID NOT. Instead you offered LESS than every other expansion package before (no LP, most notably) and yet asked for the same cost, AND PRETENDED AS THOUGH NOTHING HAD CHANGED. It's dishonest, and that's disrespect.

    Now you are charging "mini-expansion" rates for a standard quest pack. And you are again acting as though this is in no way unusual.

    That's dishonest, and that's disrespectful.

    And of course over the past few years the underlying mechanics of the game have been left to rot in an unbalanced mess of stats that devoted end-game players can only overcome either by tedious, frustrating, and confusing loot grinds, OR BY SPENDING MORE MONEY ON GAMBLING MECHANICS. That remains dishonest and disrespectful.

    We don't know who owns SSG. We do know that the producer can't even muster a vague statement of encouragement for the game's future on a yearly basis! That's disrespectful to say the least.

    If you need more money than you can currently offer value for, say so. Sell cosmetic bundles as supporter packs. Just be HONEST about what we are getting for our investment. Don't just continue this habit of offering less and less while asking for more and having nothing else to say on it. Heck, you could start a kickstarter or patreon or the like instead of continuing this practice of lies by omission.

    Take the War of the Three Peaks gameplay out of the bundles, offer it as the standard quest pack that it is (free to VIP and available for LP purchase for all), and I'll buy the $100 version swag-pack for the sake of support.

    And either bite the bullet and revamp the business model into one that is both ethical and sensible, or else just be clear that we're in maintenance mode until the lights gotta go out.

    The actual game developers continue to do a great job. The world and story of LotRO are still so wonderful that it defies belief. I will pay to support that when I don't feel disrespected and treated like a chump.
    Last edited by Moondog548; Nov 02 2020 at 01:10 PM.
    Landroval - The Council of the Secret Fire Friendly, Casual, Mature, and always seeking more!
    Message moondog548 here, on Steam, Twitch, and Discord as moondog548#6830
    Moondog on Landroval, Isilroa on Anor, Reckless on Bombadil

  2. #2
    Very well said sir and eloquently put!

  3. #3
    Thank you for putting into words how many of us long-time supporters of this game feel.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    3 Harrow Rd., Bamborings, Shire
    Posts
    1,627
    Thank you both. I have seen so many people commenting the same sentiment in so many places. We want to support. We want to spend. SSG is insulting us instead of giving us a good reason to do so.

    And I feel worst of all for the dedicated developers who have never stopped creating the best world and story content they're allowed to.
    Landroval - The Council of the Secret Fire Friendly, Casual, Mature, and always seeking more!
    Message moondog548 here, on Steam, Twitch, and Discord as moondog548#6830
    Moondog on Landroval, Isilroa on Anor, Reckless on Bombadil

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,409
    I couldn't agree more. What's sad is that SSG has entirely been avoiding dealing with this fundamental criticism, and will likely continue to do so. They don't seem to understand that they don't actually need to give us that much in order to make us supportive again - we don't want to be complaining, but we don't want to be taken for idiots.
    - Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
    - Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -

    Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    1,408
    The HUGE problem right now with SSG is that they are selling virtual items for more $$ than the actual content we are buying. These virtual items MC,LP,Cosmetics,valars etc..have close to 0 development cost.

    If we take the 100$ version as an example they sell us this:
    20$(Actual content that have a development cost)
    80$(Virtual items that don't have a development cost.)

    They have slapped 80$ on to something that costs them basically nothing to develop.

    I see an issue when some of you guys beg them to add more to the 60-100$ packages.. In the long term(we are ALREADY seeing it), you are only giving them more reasons to sell virtual items that take no effort to develop... It's NOT real content.

    Stop feeling bad for only buying the 20$ version, if you complain about these packages show it by not buying it. Stop asking them to add morevirtual items to these packages, you should instead ask them to REDUCE the prices heavily. MICROTRANSACTIONS shouldn't cost more than the actual expansion content.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    The HUGE problem right now with SSG is that they are selling virtual items for more $$ than the actual content we are buying. These virtual items MC,LP,Cosmetics,valars etc..have close to 0 development cost.

    If we take the 100$ version as an example they sell us this:
    20$(Actual content that have a development cost)
    80$(Virtual items that don't have a development cost.)

    They have slapped 80$ on to something that costs them basically nothing to develop.

    I see an issue when some of you guys beg them to add more to the 60-100$ packages.. In the long term(we are ALREADY seeing it), you are only giving them more reasons to sell virtual items that take no effort to develop... It's NOT real content.

    Stop feeling bad for only buying the 20$ version, if you complain about these packages show it by not buying it. Stop asking them to add morevirtual items to these packages, you should instead ask them to REDUCE the prices heavily. MICROTRANSACTIONS shouldn't cost more than the actual expansion content.
    Nice attempt to try to discredit the justified anger of the players.

    Sane people know there is always a cost about developing a virtual item or a new DLC / expansion event if the cost is low or a pasted copied template.

    Maybe are you just an uneducated man ?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    1,408
    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    Nice attempt to try to discredit the justified anger of the players.
    ´
    I did not discredit anyone's anger, but asking for more fluff added that has 0 development cost is not a solution. I agree with OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    Sane people know there is always a cost about developing a virtual item or a new DLC / expansion event if the cost is low or a pasted copied template.
    ´
    A donkey, weapon aura, a pig, a new cosmetic, and a boar equals 80$? I don't think so. When I say content, I mean actual content like new quests, systems instances/raids etc.. Not cosmetic stuff. And yeah, the donkey and the pig are just re-skins of already existing creatures. Remember they charge us 20$ for the actual content, and 80$ for all the fluff.. If you think those 80$ reflect their effort and investment I don't know what to say lol.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    3 Harrow Rd., Bamborings, Shire
    Posts
    1,627
    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    Nice attempt to try to discredit the justified anger of the players.

    Sane people know there is always a cost about developing a virtual item or a new DLC / expansion event if the cost is low or a pasted copied template.

    [snip]
    I'm pretty sure they were agreeing with us. I took LotroVidz's point to just be an encouragement to "vote with our wallet" and not support the thing we're complaining about while we complain about it. And I agree wholeheartedly with that.

    And everyone please keep the Community Guidelines in mind here. We're trying to address a serious problem, and the last thing we need is giving excuses for whole discussions to be shut down because only a couple people misbehave in their anger.
    Landroval - The Council of the Secret Fire Friendly, Casual, Mature, and always seeking more!
    Message moondog548 here, on Steam, Twitch, and Discord as moondog548#6830
    Moondog on Landroval, Isilroa on Anor, Reckless on Bombadil

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog548 View Post
    I'm pretty sure they were agreeing with us. I took LotroVidz's point to just be an encouragement to "vote with our wallet" and not support the thing we're complaining about while we complain about it. And I agree wholeheartedly with that.

    And everyone please keep the Community Guidelines in mind here. We're trying to address a serious problem, and the last thing we need is giving excuses for whole discussions to be shut down because only a couple people misbehave in their anger.
    I am not angry. A player saying there is zero development cost is liying. Like a cake.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    3 Harrow Rd., Bamborings, Shire
    Posts
    1,627
    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    I am not angry. A player saying there is zero development cost is liying. Like a cake.
    It's an exaggeration. We all agree here so far on the heart of the matter. Let's please stay focused on that for the good of the game we all love! Thank you, cousin!
    Landroval - The Council of the Secret Fire Friendly, Casual, Mature, and always seeking more!
    Message moondog548 here, on Steam, Twitch, and Discord as moondog548#6830
    Moondog on Landroval, Isilroa on Anor, Reckless on Bombadil

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    In Bree with the homies
    Posts
    1,238
    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog548 View Post

    Now you are charging "mini-expansion" rates for a standard quest pack. And you are again acting as though this is in no way unusual.

    .
    I really don't have a problem with SSG having to pay the bills and being forced to change their ways to keep the lights running. I get it and have no problem with it. If it would have been a new small zone like Forochel, Evendim, and so on, I would gladly pay for it, because I understand.


    But from what I've read(I have not bought it and only know from what I've read here, and tell me if I'm wrong and there is actually a new land area), it's just bunch of one and two man quests. $20 bucks for something that a landscape read the quest text, and smell the flowers and look at the sunset player like me that would have no interest in a quest pack with no land mass(if the is pretty much a decision not to buy.

    I want the boar mounts, but $60 and $99? No thank you.

    And this is the thing. If it would have been something like the original Mirkwood or Great River or something like that, I would have paid the $99 to support SSG. I had already allocated a hundred bucks to buy.

    But not for something like this.


    SSG if you are reading this, I'm telling you right now that I have no problem with paying for zones that were historically free for ViPs. Times are tight and devs and players have to tighten the belt a bit. But not for a bunch of quests that I'll never use.

    Sad thing is, I would have paid the $20 for that carry pack.
    "Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your children when you wanted to."

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    2,391
    20$ is bar minimum what they charge for content. I don't see SSG drop it to 10$ or atleast 15$, and I don't see how they decrease cost in LP, even Wells of Langflood costs 1295 LP with 1 instance (AM)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    674
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidmeetHal View Post
    But from what I've read(I have not bought it and only know from what I've read here, and tell me if I'm wrong and there is actually a new land area), it's just bunch of one and two man quests.
    You are wrong, there is actually a new land area.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    In Bree with the homies
    Posts
    1,238
    Quote Originally Posted by Starliteyes View Post
    You are wrong, there is actually a new land area.
    Oh that's cool, where is it? I was looking on the map last night and saw nothing new. If there's an actual land area, I don't have an issue with paying the twenty bucks.
    "Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your children when you wanted to."

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Starliteyes View Post
    You are wrong, there is actually a new land area.

    If by "land area" you mean a tiny plot just big enough to put up a yard shed and a small swimming pool in, yup, that's "new".

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    1,408
    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    I am not angry. A player saying there is zero development cost is liying. Like a cake.
    You are either lying or didn't read what I just wrote... *facepalm*
    A donkey, weapon aura, a pig, a new cosmetic, and a boar equals 80$? I don't think so. When I say content, I mean actual content like new quests, systems instances/raids etc.. Not cosmetic stuff. And yeah, the donkey and the pig are just re-skins of already existing creatures. Remember they charge us 20$ for the actual content, and 80$ for all the fluff.. If you think those 80$ reflect their effort and investment I don't know what to say lol.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidmeetHal View Post
    I really don't have a problem with SSG having to pay the bills and being forced to change their ways to keep the lights running. I get it and have no problem with it. If it would have been a new small zone like Forochel, Evendim, and so on, I would gladly pay for it, because I understand.
    With this last move one of the last advantage from vip is removed.

  19. #19
    Thank you for putting my feelings into words. I've been playing this game for over 9 years now. Bought every single expansion, been VIP for years, 3-4 years in a row I bought annual membership just to support even though maybe 3-4 months each year I barely played. However I refuse to pay for this sorry excuse of an expansion. I do not even pay for VIP anymore as they removed last remaining benefit of VIP, by making this quest pack (yes this is a quest pack, call it expansion all you want it wont change my view. Put a make up on pig, pig is a pig.)not available as free for VIPs. People are already farming the new raid with 6-10 people, a disgrace I would say. t5 essences now cost 4 solvents, talk about a cash grab.
    Nevertheless as a member of PvMP community of this game, I promised to continue supporting the game by buying the base edition at least if they do something meaningful for PvMP anytime soon.
    I've blackened the sun and I've bloodied the moon.

  20. #20
    This games biggest mistake was even offering Lifetime VIP in the first place. All that does is offer someone to pay a one time chunk of money and expect everything in the future without helping fund the games development and sustainability with the exception of expansion packs here and there.

  21. #21
    I know many life timers paying alot to the game, I'm not sure where you are getting the idea "life timer doesnt do much to the game" but there are life timers with 6 premium houses, I don't have to say that costs alot. + life timers still had to buy main expansion packs like mordor etc and they buy ultimate bundle. I wouldnt dismiss them so quickly.
    I've blackened the sun and I've bloodied the moon.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    In Bree with the homies
    Posts
    1,238
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithrim View Post
    This games biggest mistake was even offering Lifetime VIP in the first place. All that does is offer someone to pay a one time chunk of money and expect everything in the future without helping fund the games development and sustainability with the exception of expansion packs here and there.

    A lot of lifetimers like me buy points. Heck a good friend of mine who was a lifetimer would buy several thousand points a year to supply their alts. I buy points to supply my alts with milestones and travel time reducers. I really don't buy into the "lifetimer is a freeloader" mentality.
    "Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your children when you wanted to."

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithrim View Post
    This games biggest mistake was even offering Lifetime VIP in the first place. All that does is offer someone to pay a one time chunk of money and expect everything in the future without helping fund the games development and sustainability with the exception of expansion packs here and there.
    That ship has long since sailed, and it isn't the issue here. I know lifers who pay a ton of money into this game. What the issue is is why people who currently buy a subscription (and I am one) would continue to do so when one of the primary perks of that subscription is no longer there. It has seemed for the last couple of years that SSG was trying to add value to the VIP subscription, with the weekends, the legendary servers, the occasional cosmetic and Wenda Cranesbill's goodies, which are absolutely very convenient. But now it seems that that was just a preface for removing the automatic access to new content that is not expansions. Labeling WOTP a mini-expansion is beyond disingenuous. It is content VIPS in the past would have gotten for free.

    SSG needs to come clean, be honest and tell its subscribers if the VIP model is changing, and what the future subscription is going to look like, both new perks and ones that are going to be removed. I didn't have a problem with subscribing during the free months this year, the game gives me a great deal of enjoyment and I feel like I should support that. I didn't share the feeling that some folks had, that it was a slap in the face of subscribers. This "mini-expansion" business, however, makes my cheeks feel chapped.
    Last edited by Dolamrothdame; Oct 21 2020 at 03:50 PM.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantion View Post
    I think the culprit here is Daybreak Games.


    The so-called "new LOTRO Market" wires the money directly to them, and the bill for this so-called "expansion" comes from Daybreak, not SSG.


    I think we are seeing a full, direct take-over of this game, putting the Devs in a real bind: They've probably got DayBreak breathing down their necks to - not communicate - certain things we want them to, and so they haven't. Even in Mordor, their communication with us was certainly far better than it is right now; maybe, at the very beginning, they had a "looser" relationship with their publisher that has hardened since. Perhaps Daybreak started demanding things more as time went on?

    It's the kind of situation where your boss asks you to do something you objectively know is bad for your customers and your company, and you have to kind of "not talk" to keep your job in the short-term, but you know it's very terrible in the long-term, bad for customers, and can't say a blasted thing about it because you'll get fired immediately if you protest or try to do anything about the problem against your boss's wishes. That's honestly probably the most common kind of situation that can make people hate their jobs... If that IS the situation here, I definitely do not envy them...

    I would not be surprised in the slightest if this is the kind of situation SSG is currently in, and that's not to make excuses for them; it's simply an educated guess at a probable reality, which is pretty much bad for everyone involved, especially for us: the customers / consumers / players...
    You may very well be right. If that is the case, I do feel sorry for the devs. I worked at a company that was bought out once, and it wasn't fun at all.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Makawulf View Post
    I know many life timers paying alot to the game, I'm not sure where you are getting the idea "life timer doesnt do much to the game" but there are life timers with 6 premium houses, I don't have to say that costs alot. + life timers still had to buy main expansion packs like mordor etc and they buy ultimate bundle. I wouldnt dismiss them so quickly.
    Think of it like when you buy a car or house or anything that requires regular maintenance to function properly. You have to continuously pay to maintain with oil changes or HVAC maintenance to keep things functioning and running, not just when you feel like splurging on an unnecessary stereo system.

 

 
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload