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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Lothlorien
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    1,181
    Quote Originally Posted by Garatha View Post
    My experience on my minstrel was all the creeps focus on the healer and the healer dies. The other Freeps fail to notice.
    Yeah, but if a 1 freep can fight against 4 and not die, and it takes 2 minutes for 5 to kill them, how will fights look when freeps have 6 or even 12? What will creeps need to bring, 30-60?

    Mirage
    Arkenstone | Anor


  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Rimenuir View Post
    Yeah, but if a 1 freep can fight against 4 and not die, and it takes 2 minutes for 5 to kill them, how will fights look when freeps have 6 or even 12? What will creeps need to bring, 30-60?
    I want to accentuate once more that this is a DPS FREEP SETUP, NOT A HEALING SETUP. Who knows how many creeps it's going to take to kill a healing RK next update.
    ~Rank 11 Loremaster, Arkenstone~

    ~Rank 14 Warg, Arkenstone~

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Garatha View Post
    My experience on my minstrel was all the creeps focus on the healer and the healer dies. The other Freeps fail to notice.
    Where is the healer in these videos??!?!?!?
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  4. #29
    Looking at those videos, I can easily see that creeps dps is nowhere close to properly scaled. I know creep dps has been weak for the longest time, but this is a completely new level of weak. The bubbles from the jewelry sets are annoying, but the big issue is that creep dps needs to be both scaled properly and boosted massively. It's long past time for a creep dps buff, and it needs to happen soon.
    Ughh...another one of those mad, hungry hobbits with a sword...

    Mydiel Pineapple 130 LM The Pirate Alliance Landroval

  5. #30
    Well, let's hope that Cord watches/ed these videos as he promised on stream and passes on the information. Would be nice to have a blue name post as a confirmation. (In other words, bump)
    Some freeps and creeps on Crickhollow, some creeps on Evernight. Recently also a casual Jogger and some other creeps on Arkenstone.

    Certified trash.

  6. #31



    lmao
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  7. #32
    95% of player base cant get hands on those gears what these/those freeps are using . sam life matters

  8. #33
    Cordovan saw the video and communicated to the developers.

    This is the result:




    further RK buffs. no creep buff.
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    4,189
    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post



    lmao
    This is not me. Someone posting claiming to be me.

    In terms of your surprise that me watching a video on Friday afternoon doesn't lead to changes in the release notes on a Monday morning Bullroarer preview: ok. Besides the reality that my watching one particular video has little bearing on prior awareness of the issue, nor the work that we know needs to be done, it also is highly unlikely that we would turn around a game build for Bullroarer on a weekend like that.
    Community Manager, Lord of the Rings Online
    Follow LOTRO on: Twitter - Facebook - Pinterest - Twitch - YouTube
    Personal channels (No SSG talk): Twitch Twitter Facebook
    Support: help.standingstonegames.com
    coolcool

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post

    In terms of your surprise that me watching a video on Friday afternoon doesn't lead to changes in the release notes on a Monday morning Bullroarer preview: ok. Besides the reality that my watching one particular video has little bearing on prior awareness of the issue, nor the work that we know needs to be done, it also is highly unlikely that we would turn around a game build for Bullroarer on a weekend like that.
    I'm sorry, but I cannot (along with others) swallow this excuse. Such issues have been raised ever since Osgiliath cluster and as the updates went on, things got drastically worse by the update.
    Right now, we're without a doubt, just above rock bottom, with it being basically classified as "rank farming" on how it easy it would be for Freeps to kill, but I'm probably gonna get an infraction for bringing that up considering the mess that happened a year ago where the stance on rank farming was unclear at best.
    So...I'm just gonna say: "No."
    This isn't a new issue. This isn't something that has magically occurred this pending update. This is a mess that only got worse with each update and right now, it's kind of hilarious at how things have badly gotten.

    I'll take my infraction gladly, but know for a fact that the disconnect between developers and actual feedback is so far apart that you'd have an easier time building a step ladder between the moon and SSG HQ.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    1,364
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    This is not me. Someone posting claiming to be me.

    In terms of your surprise that me watching a video on Friday afternoon doesn't lead to changes in the release notes on a Monday morning Bullroarer preview: ok. Besides the reality that my watching one particular video has little bearing on prior awareness of the issue, nor the work that we know needs to be done, it also is highly unlikely that we would turn around a game build for Bullroarer on a weekend like that.
    If you could stop monetize PVMP until you fix things it would go a long way. Why do you ask players to pay for something that you clearly doesn't care about one bit? Many players go VIP just for PVMP. If SSG wants to bring in the bucks from PVMP, then make sure you put some effort in doing some balance at the very least. How hard can that be to understand? The management of this game is a joke atm. And I feel sorry for you who have to deal with the playerbase who obviously isn't happy about a lot of things, which ofc isn't your fault but the company you are working for.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,878
    Quote Originally Posted by Elmagor View Post
    Since 2007 every creep side update was a pure joke comparing to freep updates. I sure they never thinking delay next update because creep side don't get buff.
    Don't you dare badmouth the book 14 spider update cooked up by Orion and Jalessa like that.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,878
    Quote Originally Posted by Rimenuir View Post
    Yeah, but if a 1 freep can fight against 4 and not die, and it takes 2 minutes for 5 to kill them, how will fights look when freeps have 6 or even 12? What will creeps need to bring, 30-60?
    Freeps are raid bosses, confirmed.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,878
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    This is not me. Someone posting claiming to be me.

    In terms of your surprise that me watching a video on Friday afternoon doesn't lead to changes in the release notes on a Monday morning Bullroarer preview: ok. Besides the reality that my watching one particular video has little bearing on prior awareness of the issue, nor the work that we know needs to be done, it also is highly unlikely that we would turn around a game build for Bullroarer on a weekend like that.
    You're right in that it's not realistic given where BR builds are in your release timeline.

    But we really shouldn't have to fall this far into the development of an update to note how big of a problem this is creating. There are numerous steps that can be taken that, while not the sort of skill review/overhaul many creep classes need due to depreciated/non-functional skills, would at least paper over the issue enough to keep it somewhat playable. Numerous posts have gone over issues with base stats (which are mostly sill at the same values as existed at level 85), passive traits (which allow for class to class value adjusting - probably the easiest of bandaids to apply). Vastin could quite literally go through the tables for creep passive stats, add a 0 to each and every passive, and end up with something more functional than exists now (let alone what will exist in the near future).

    We get that resources are thin on your end, since the team is basically doubling up on game responsibilities with DDO. But PVMP is one of the few perks almost entirely locked behind subbing for the game.

    Over the longer term, Vastin or whomever else is left to work on PVMP needs to be future-proofing as much of it as possible. Updating depreciated/non-functional skills. Shifting from ratings based skill effects to percentages where possible. Really anything to lower the amount of work that has to go into it. Given how little development bandwidth PVMP has required over the life of this game, and the fact that free-peoples are locked behind a sub, I would wager that over the last 13 years it's been one of the most efficient income streams per development resource expended, even if the share of of revenue is not high compared to other content, the players who are enjoying it are not asking for large amounts of resources to keep it functional.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    252
    Can I get bleeds on par with Norbog dots on my reaver plz? That would be the massive reaver buff I've been waiting for.

    Mulatic
    R14 Reaver
    Arkenstone

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    This is not me. Someone posting claiming to be me.

    In terms of your surprise that me watching a video on Friday afternoon doesn't lead to changes in the release notes on a Monday morning Bullroarer preview: ok. Besides the reality that my watching one particular video has little bearing on prior awareness of the issue, nor the work that we know needs to be done, it also is highly unlikely that we would turn around a game build for Bullroarer on a weekend like that.
    This really is the cherry on top of the cake


    people have been saying "PVMP is getting worse, please fix it" for years... literally years.

    This isn't a "video on Friday, expect change on Monday" kind of thing...

    this is a "people have been telling you and the other devs this for years through every channel possible in every mode of communication available, and now its gotten so bad that even the people with the lowest standards are fed up" kind of thing


    There are so many, many, many routes to a semi-palatable short term solution that have been offered, so many analyses done, so many people you could talk to and ask about their thoughts on PVMP and the simple five minute number-changes needed to make it at least livable in the short term. YEARS of people's passionate work, ignored in some cases for half a decade or longer.


    The least you could do is acknowledge that PVMP is a train wreck clownfiesta and that there is some kind of plan to fix it...something that you can share an outline for... but clearly that isn't the case.

    There is no plan.
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  17. #42
    What it means is that PvMP is NOT core system to the base game. The development staff has to maintain focus on the core systems.

    If you were in charge and responsible for income, would dedicate your limited resources on the core system or on an aspect of the game that has only portion of active users?

    There was probably a decision made that the resources needed to "fix" PvMP would not recoup the expense of doing so.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,878
    Quote Originally Posted by Ainworth View Post
    What it means is that PvMP is NOT core system to the base game. The development staff has to maintain focus on the core systems.

    If you were in charge and responsible for income, would dedicate your limited resources on the core system or on an aspect of the game that has only portion of active users?

    There was probably a decision made that the resources needed to "fix" PvMP would not recoup the expense of doing so.
    I recall when Turbine used this same thought process and the result was to no longer have raids. Ah, good times.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ainworth View Post
    What it means is that PvMP is NOT core system to the base game. The development staff has to maintain focus on the core systems.

    If you were in charge and responsible for income, would dedicate your limited resources on the core system or on an aspect of the game that has only portion of active users?

    There was probably a decision made that the resources needed to "fix" PvMP would not recoup the expense of doing so.
    This same thought process was used by SSG to stop developing endgame raids during Helms Deep


    The result was the population crash that killed 2/3'rds of the servers and the later (2 years later) reinstatement of group content.


    Also... PVMP is not a core system, but music, festivals, housing, the Bombadil server, and the Legendary worlds are?
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Evernight
    Posts
    1,526
    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post



    lmao
    This is beautiful, though. The simplicity of a cool-headed, honest-sounding, 4-word statement that probably reflects Cordovan's own views if he was allowed to say such a thing.
    “ädvëntürës ärë nöt äll pönÿ-rïdës ïn mäÿ-sünshïnë.”

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    331
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    This is not me. Someone posting claiming to be me.

    In terms of your surprise that me watching a video on Friday afternoon doesn't lead to changes in the release notes on a Monday morning Bullroarer preview: ok. Besides the reality that my watching one particular video has little bearing on prior awareness of the issue, nor the work that we know needs to be done, it also is highly unlikely that we would turn around a game build for Bullroarer on a weekend like that.

    Firstly, this issue was raised many times long, long, long before last Friday. Does that mean we were right to assume none of the other threads bringing it up were read?


    Secondly, now that the team has actually seen this video, do you think you could just give us a quick explanation of how, in your company's view, this game system constitutes "premium content" worth paying a subscription for? Many thanks.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Ainworth View Post
    What it means is that PvMP is NOT core system to the base game. The development staff has to maintain focus on the core systems.

    If you were in charge and responsible for income, would dedicate your limited resources on the core system or on an aspect of the game that has only portion of active users?

    There was probably a decision made that the resources needed to "fix" PvMP would not recoup the expense of doing so.
    So a VIP gated aspect of the game is not deserving of development hours, while “core systems” that are available for F2P accounts should be? What do you consider “core systems?

    There was a time back in the day before SSG where this mindset took hold and the lie that raiders consisted of only 8-10% of the population and PVP was even smaller portion of the community was perpetuated. It became a self fulfilling prophecy. They did away with raids, and ignored PVP development. What ensued was the mass exodus that crippled the game, led to the closing of 2/3 of the servers and the game has never recovered. While maybe 10% of the population was “progression raiders” the raiding (even casual raiding) community was nearly 40% of the population of the game, and PVP was nearly equal.
    Servers like Elendilmir prior to this was the 2nd largest population in the game it had a heavy PvP focus and healthy raiding community, the population subsequently became so small that it was on the chopping block and closed.

    Let’s learn from the mistakes this game has made before and let’s not repeat them. F2P music systems, landscape quests, RP events, and one time cost ex-pacs are not VIP gated content. VIP gated content should be first and foremost worthy of development resources and have healthy and open communication with the dev team. It has none of that.
    ~ Commander Anaxander -R11 Warden, Chieftain Karukh -R12 Warg ~ Formerly of Elendilmir

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ainworth View Post
    What it means is that PvMP is NOT core system to the base game. The development staff has to maintain focus on the core systems.

    If you were in charge and responsible for income, would dedicate your limited resources on the core system or on an aspect of the game that has only portion of active users?

    There was probably a decision made that the resources needed to "fix" PvMP would not recoup the expense of doing so.
    According to your advice, can SSG just focus on accounting and payment options?
    Some freeps and creeps on Crickhollow, some creeps on Evernight. Recently also a casual Jogger and some other creeps on Arkenstone.

    Certified trash.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    2,056
    Players: developers don't care about pvp
    Cordovan: Even if I watch video, they don't care about my opinion too.

    Yes, it was silly joke, but what you expect? If they don't do anything for Ettenmoors since 2007, one video can change it, and they make some changes during weekend?

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    This is not me. Someone posting claiming to be me.

    In terms of your surprise that me watching a video on Friday afternoon doesn't lead to changes in the release notes on a Monday morning Bullroarer preview: ok. Besides the reality that my watching one particular video has little bearing on prior awareness of the issue, nor the work that we know needs to be done, it also is highly unlikely that we would turn around a game build for Bullroarer on a weekend like that.
    Nice to hear that you know you have work to be done. Pvmp didn't have any major updates in long long years. There are MANY players, like me, who almost never post on forums or doesn't use forums at all, but we exist too and lots of us want a change too for a really long time, so please consider to do something already. Thanks!

 

 
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