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  1. #1

    Yellow Hunter adjustments/improvements

    Normally I don't play yellow hunter (I mean, who would?) because of its lack of viability in group content. But lately, I've been thinking about changes that could be made to the line to make it at least somewhat appealing to play in a raid/group setting. I'm no expert on yellow line, but would like to try and start a conversation on how to fix the trait line. For starters:

    1)Rain of thorns. I personally would like to see its cooldown reduced to 45 seconds (so down to 30 seconds with the set bonus) and bring its focus cost down a little, at least in line with rain/hail of arrows.

    2)Piercing Trap. With the Master Trapper trait, piercing trap returns morale to anyone that hits its target. As of now though, that morale return is less than a thousand points, which is inconsequential compared to the total morale players currently have. Even lower morale dps are sitting at 200k, with tanks ranging 500k-900k. Adjusting piercing trap to return even 1% of morale on hit instead of a flat amount of morale would make a huge difference in its utility.

    3)Deadly decoy. Would benefit from being ranged ground-targeted like most of your other traps are after traiting the Advanced placement skill. Also needs a slightly larger taunt range.

    4)Lingering wound. Even if you don't change the focus cost or the initial hit damage, it desperately needs higher bleed damage, and a longer bleed duration. Barbed arrow currently has a better bleed (up to lingering wound tier 3), a shorter cooldown, a longer duration, and a stronger initial hit. So lingering wound needs to be brought at least in line with Barbed Arrow.

    5)Explosive Arrow. Being ground-targeted actually feels like a detriment to this skill. Would prefer to see it direct target, and maybe drop a burning puddle on the ground similar to sticky gourd on LM, or possibly a stun to mobs it hits? The time it takes to use it, the focus cost, and the current damage output makes explosive arrow not worth using atm. I can understand not buffing its damage, since yellow isn't the damage-centric tree for hunters, but then it should at least have more utility.

    6)Purge poison. Tripling its cooldown for yellow seems excessive, even if you are expanding it to hit up to 6 targets (your fellow). And with the huge diminishing return on resistance rating (plus the 50% cap) the added poison resistance rating feels pretty worthless. Again, I'd like added utility there. Maybe in yellow line have a 30 second cooldown on purge poison with an added resistance percentage, similar to a Captain's Muster Courage? Even a flat 10% poison resistance would be useful for a raid setting.

    Yellow hunter doesnt need to be amazing damage like Red Hunter, but there's no reason it shouldn't be viable for a raid.

  2. #2
    I'm no expert, but I would like to be able to try it out without hampering the group so much. It seems like yellow hunter is stuck trying to be too many different things, and isn't good at any of them. I like the sound of those changes.

    As for other changes, I suppose it depends if we want yellow hunter to compete with LMs and burgs in the tank group or if we want them to be dps side something or other.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by theultimatekyle View Post
    Normally I don't play yellow hunter (I mean, who would?) because of its lack of viability in group content. But lately, I've been thinking about changes that could be made to the line to make it at least somewhat appealing to play in a raid/group setting. I'm no expert on yellow line, but would like to try and start a conversation on how to fix the trait line. For starters:

    1)Rain of thorns. I personally would like to see its cooldown reduced to 45 seconds (so down to 30 seconds with the set bonus) and bring its focus cost down a little, at least in line with rain/hail of arrows.

    2)Piercing Trap. With the Master Trapper trait, piercing trap returns morale to anyone that hits its target. As of now though, that morale return is less than a thousand points, which is inconsequential compared to the total morale players currently have. Even lower morale dps are sitting at 200k, with tanks ranging 500k-900k. Adjusting piercing trap to return even 1% of morale on hit instead of a flat amount of morale would make a huge difference in its utility.

    3)Deadly decoy. Would benefit from being ranged ground-targeted like most of your other traps are after traiting the Advanced placement skill. Also needs a slightly larger taunt range.

    4)Lingering wound. Even if you don't change the focus cost or the initial hit damage, it desperately needs higher bleed damage, and a longer bleed duration. Barbed arrow currently has a better bleed (up to lingering wound tier 3), a shorter cooldown, a longer duration, and a stronger initial hit. So lingering wound needs to be brought at least in line with Barbed Arrow.

    5)Explosive Arrow. Being ground-targeted actually feels like a detriment to this skill. Would prefer to see it direct target, and maybe drop a burning puddle on the ground similar to sticky gourd on LM, or possibly a stun to mobs it hits? The time it takes to use it, the focus cost, and the current damage output makes explosive arrow not worth using atm. I can understand not buffing its damage, since yellow isn't the damage-centric tree for hunters, but then it should at least have more utility.

    6)Purge poison. Tripling its cooldown for yellow seems excessive, even if you are expanding it to hit up to 6 targets (your fellow). And with the huge diminishing return on resistance rating (plus the 50% cap) the added poison resistance rating feels pretty worthless. Again, I'd like added utility there. Maybe in yellow line have a 30 second cooldown on purge poison with an added resistance percentage, similar to a Captain's Muster Courage? Even a flat 10% poison resistance would be useful for a raid setting.

    Yellow hunter doesnt need to be amazing damage like Red Hunter, but there's no reason it shouldn't be viable for a raid.
    It's about half damage to blue, which makes it what, 1/6 damage output from red?
    Also, I think rain of aoe reset is stuck in red, for no reason.
    Yellow is also hampered by the red nerf that moved bonus focus way down the blue tree. If nerfing red, nerf RED TREE not everything else. If you must do it generalalized - compensate for the loss.
    Yellow is also stuck with 2/3 regular range, for no reason at all.

    Lingering wound + damage over time legs should together bring it up to crit initial hits around 50k and bleeds around half that on a max imbue. That's not for raid, that is so it can kill landscape mobs for field questing 120-130. The inflated mob morale is absurd and way over the top but red and blue can deal with that. There should be no cooldown at all, stack 3.

    *

    It's a lost cause. Can you even imagine one trait line needing buffs and then only watch it get reduced over the years. Something about hope and lotr but I gave up that particular fight.

  4. #4
    As far as damage goes, I dont think yellow -has- to have the huge numbers red gets. You wouldnt expect a yellow LM or yellow Cappy to put out numbers comparable to their red lines. And the range in yellow is 30 meters, same as blue line. Only red line has a 40m range.

    But on Lingering wound specifically, it definitely does need a boost. Lingering Wound and Explosive arrows are the yellow line bow skills. Not only is lingering wound currently a worse skill than even barbed arrow, but the main hand legacy for it (desperate flight cd/lingering wound damage) doesnt work. *slight edit* The legacy does increase the initial hit, but not the bleed damage from lingering wound, and the overall increase is too small to really care about.

    Another change I'd like to suggest involves the yellow lines improved penetrating shot. Currently the trait only adds bpe reduction to pen shot. Under normal circumstances, DPS in a raid/group try to stay behind the boss/mobs, where they dont have to worry about block and parry, only evade. And even then, with the way finesse currently is, there's zero reason to worry about evades (except for first remmo side boss, but it gets a percent buff, not a rating buff, so the reduction wouldnt matter). So theres really no reason to trait "Amour rend" in yellow line for the improved penetrating shot. Why not change it to where Amour rend adds an actual armor value reduction instead?
    Last edited by theultimatekyle; Sep 13 2020 at 05:22 PM. Reason: correcting information

  5. #5
    I apologize for intruding in this thread with a question. I understand one of the traps in yellow line (not sure which one) does some fellowship heals. I can't seem to find any indication of that, either in the yellow tree or in the set bonuses. I'd like to know which trap/traps heal the fellowship and, more importantly, for how much?

    Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by FundinStrongarm View Post
    I apologize for intruding in this thread with a question. I understand one of the traps in yellow line (not sure which one) does some fellowship heals. I can't seem to find any indication of that, either in the yellow tree or in the set bonuses. I'd like to know which trap/traps heal the fellowship and, more importantly, for how much?

    Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
    No problem. This actually ties into my point on piercing trap up above. In yellow line, you'll see special line traits on the far left side of the trait panel (you get those by dedicating points in your trait). The one called Master Trapper modifies the Piercing trap to return morale on hit. So if you place the trap, a boss/mob goes through it, then for the duration of the debuff, anyone that hits that boss/mob will get a small amount of morale back. Currently though its a super tiny heal, under 1k morale per hit at level cap. It really ought to be buffed.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by theultimatekyle View Post
    No problem. This actually ties into my point on piercing trap up above. In yellow line, you'll see special line traits on the far left side of the trait panel (you get those by dedicating points in your trait). The one called Master Trapper modifies the Piercing trap to return morale on hit. So if you place the trap, a boss/mob goes through it, then for the duration of the debuff, anyone that hits that boss/mob will get a small amount of morale back. Currently though its a super tiny heal, under 1k morale per hit at level cap. It really ought to be buffed.
    Awesome, I see it now. I must've missed it when I was checking to find it.

    Is it a flat morale return per hit, do you know? Or a tiny percentage perhaps? Good to know it is under 1k per hit.

    Thanks.

  8. #8
    Unfortunately the morale return from piercing trap seems to be a flat rate. Its been the same for all the hunter's I've asked about it

  9. #9
    I played around With the yellow Hunter quite a Bit, also in remorchant. Since He offers very good damage Support for the whole RAID, its arguable better to have at least one yellow instead of one Red Hunter. This can dependent on the Fight how ever.

    Yellow Line hast still some Problems. Its not that viable Outside of RAID or solo content.
    One Big Problem is that the dots from the traps can crit, Same Goes for explosive Arrow.
    Lingering wounds damage is fine, imo. The duration ist Just to Short, after 10sec it expires and you can start stacking it Up again.
    Another Problem is the scaling of lingering wound, If remeber corectly its neither a Focus Skill nor a bow skill.

    Also a Lot of traits and traits Set Boni are mostly meaningless, im Sure some of them could Need Love.
    I mean 90% of His RAID viabilty comes from the traitsetboni wich gives 15% Inc damage on the tripple Trap and +10% critchance in the decoy.

    I would Not say that His own DPS is that bad, its 1/3-1/2 the damage of an Red Line Hunter.
    Im currently reaching around 100k DPS on the dummy, With non optimal Gear (i miss about 200k Mastersy )
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum.
    The best way is via Discord:
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post

    Also a Lot of traits and traits Set Boni are mostly meaningless, im Sure some of them could Need Love.
    I mean 90% of His RAID viabilty comes from the traitsetboni wich gives 15% Inc damage on the tripple Trap and +10% critchance in the decoy.

    Do you know how long the 15% inc damage increase lasts? It's not clear in game, I wonder what % of time we can keep it up as yellow.

    Also sounds like you know a lot about yellow line, do you have a trait set up for raid or one for PvMP that you use? I'm interested in seeing both.
    Erendil 50 Hunter Rank 7, Mavellen 45 Warden; Officers of Disciples
    Ragaroth Warleader Rank 7, Marhawk Stalker Rank 5; Members of Cuddle Squad
    Other Characters: Arthilius - Captain, Arthilias - Guardian,
    Claireth - Runekeeper, Harbuckle - Burglar, Lothlirien - Hunter

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    Do you know how long the 15% inc damage increase lasts? It's not clear in game, I wonder what % of time we can keep it up as yellow.

    Also sounds like you know a lot about yellow line, do you have a trait set up for raid or one for PvMP that you use? I'm interested in seeing both.
    You have to keep in mind that in some fights you can pull the Boss/target through one of the 3 traps after another, so you can end up with 100% uptime.
    I also think the +10% critchance buff has more impact on the raid dps, compared to the triple trap.

    The Trait tree is not final, but this is what i currently use for Raids.
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum.
    The best way is via Discord:
    Gertes#5389

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    You have to keep in mind that in some fights you can pull the Boss/target through one of the 3 traps after another, so you can end up with 100% uptime.
    I also think the +10% critchance buff has more impact on the raid dps, compared to the triple trap.

    The Trait tree is not final, but this is what i currently use for Raids.

    Thank you! I will do some testing with this as well. One quick note, I noticed in your trait set up you have 5 points in red going to crit chance, wouldn't those 5 points be better spent on the pen shot debuff (true shot) if this build is meant to be more of a debuffer?
    Erendil 50 Hunter Rank 7, Mavellen 45 Warden; Officers of Disciples
    Ragaroth Warleader Rank 7, Marhawk Stalker Rank 5; Members of Cuddle Squad
    Other Characters: Arthilius - Captain, Arthilias - Guardian,
    Claireth - Runekeeper, Harbuckle - Burglar, Lothlirien - Hunter

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    Thank you! I will do some testing with this as well. One quick note, I noticed in your trait set up you have 5 points in red going to crit chance, wouldn't those 5 points be better spent on the pen shot debuff (true shot) if this build is meant to be more of a debuffer?
    Yes true, but i had another hunter with me, so he used the pen shot buff anyway. If you are the only hunter you should switch the 5 points.
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum.
    The best way is via Discord:
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by theultimatekyle View Post
    Normally I don't play yellow hunter (I mean, who would?) because of its lack of viability in group content. But lately, I've been thinking about changes that could be made to the line to make it at least somewhat appealing to play in a raid/group setting. I'm no expert on yellow line, but would like to try and start a conversation on how to fix the trait line. For starters:

    1)Rain of thorns. I personally would like to see its cooldown reduced to 45 seconds (so down to 30 seconds with the set bonus) and bring its focus cost down a little, at least in line with rain/hail of arrows.

    2)Piercing Trap. With the Master Trapper trait, piercing trap returns morale to anyone that hits its target. As of now though, that morale return is less than a thousand points, which is inconsequential compared to the total morale players currently have. Even lower morale dps are sitting at 200k, with tanks ranging 500k-900k. Adjusting piercing trap to return even 1% of morale on hit instead of a flat amount of morale would make a huge difference in its utility.

    3)Deadly decoy. Would benefit from being ranged ground-targeted like most of your other traps are after traiting the Advanced placement skill. Also needs a slightly larger taunt range.

    4)Lingering wound. Even if you don't change the focus cost or the initial hit damage, it desperately needs higher bleed damage, and a longer bleed duration. Barbed arrow currently has a better bleed (up to lingering wound tier 3), a shorter cooldown, a longer duration, and a stronger initial hit. So lingering wound needs to be brought at least in line with Barbed Arrow.

    5)Explosive Arrow. Being ground-targeted actually feels like a detriment to this skill. Would prefer to see it direct target, and maybe drop a burning puddle on the ground similar to sticky gourd on LM, or possibly a stun to mobs it hits? The time it takes to use it, the focus cost, and the current damage output makes explosive arrow not worth using atm. I can understand not buffing its damage, since yellow isn't the damage-centric tree for hunters, but then it should at least have more utility.

    6)Purge poison. Tripling its cooldown for yellow seems excessive, even if you are expanding it to hit up to 6 targets (your fellow). And with the huge diminishing return on resistance rating (plus the 50% cap) the added poison resistance rating feels pretty worthless. Again, I'd like added utility there. Maybe in yellow line have a 30 second cooldown on purge poison with an added resistance percentage, similar to a Captain's Muster Courage? Even a flat 10% poison resistance would be useful for a raid setting.

    Yellow hunter doesnt need to be amazing damage like Red Hunter, but there's no reason it shouldn't be viable for a raid.
    Just a couple things to add to your list, I'm sure I'll have more as I test yellow further:

    1) fix armor rend trait, it does nothing to mitigations right now despite falsely saying it lowers them by 4%
    2) fix distracting shot, the skill is useless, it's single target, huge cooldown, breaks too easily, re-work the trait points that lower the CD to do something more useful like making it AoE and lowering the CD down to 30 seconds.
    3) either add a few more useful debuffs for yellow or increase DoT damage, yellow needs to either have enough damage contribution to be useful in groups OR enough debuffs to raise the DPS of the rest of the group.
    Erendil 50 Hunter Rank 7, Mavellen 45 Warden; Officers of Disciples
    Ragaroth Warleader Rank 7, Marhawk Stalker Rank 5; Members of Cuddle Squad
    Other Characters: Arthilius - Captain, Arthilias - Guardian,
    Claireth - Runekeeper, Harbuckle - Burglar, Lothlirien - Hunter

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    Just a couple things to add to your list, I'm sure I'll have more as I test yellow further:

    1) fix armor rend trait, it does nothing to mitigations right now despite falsely saying it lowers them by 4%
    2) fix distracting shot, the skill is useless, it's single target, huge cooldown, breaks too easily, re-work the trait points that lower the CD to do something more useful like making it AoE and lowering the CD down to 30 seconds.
    3) either add a few more useful debuffs for yellow or increase DoT damage, yellow needs to either have enough damage contribution to be useful in groups OR enough debuffs to raise the DPS of the rest of the group.
    So, penetrating shot will always lower enemy mits by 4%, even in blue or redline. all the armour rend trait does is add a BPE reduction to that, which I mentioned in an earlier post as being kinda useless right now. So I think the trait should be reworked to either actually reduce enemy armour value, or if thats too OP, maybe a crit defense debuff?

  16. #16
    So I just recently started playing again, but didn't explosive arrow use to stun? Or am I imagining that? Either way, I'm down with it stunning. Having no max targets is cool and all, but when do you ever actually hit more than three in that small space anyway? Put a cap on targets and make it a CC so it's useful.

    And for the deadly decoy, are they supposed to be killable without blowing up? If they are, can we get a visible morale pool for them? Or if they're not supposed to be, can we get that fixed too? Half the time I see it used they don't do anything.

 

 

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