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  1. #1

    Very Unhappy PVPers

    All

    I`ve been following Bullroarer posts about the next update and all I can see is Freeps getting even more buffed . The only thing being attended to for creeps is as follows ,

    "PvMP
    Warleader's Command Post summoned banner will once again grant buffs to Monster Play characters within range.
    The following Osgiliath Monster Play quests will once again advance properly: Conquering the Ornendil, Looking for Conflict, The Ornendil Bridge Belongs to Mordor, and The Belegiant Bridge Belongs to Mordor.
    Monster player inventory, quest, and barter items should no longer have a red border unless they actually cannot be used due to class, rank, or other restrictions."

    I can tell SSG now they are going to have a lot of very angry and fed up customers if this is all they are doing . No one other than cheats and clubbers cares about Osgiliath . Dump the area , stop wasting time and resources on it . Stop wasting time on silly cosmetics such as red borders as again no one cares . Who actually sits down and places utter nonsense like this on the agenda for patches /updates ?

    Freeps are so far ahead at the moment that any further buff without the corresponding attention to creep side being made is just one more slap in the face from SSG .

    Where is the attention that was promised after you balanced out and buffed freeps ?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    775
    @ vastin,
    would you care to answer the ops question?
    "You can't have your Kate and Eat her too!"

    Katelia Rk 11 Lm, Peppermintt Rk 12 Warg, Katetastrophe Rk 12 WL, Kateaclysm Rk 15 defiler

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by DickDastardly View Post
    All



    Where is the attention that was promised after you balanced out and buffed freeps ?

    Was this promised?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Texas
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkit View Post
    Was this promised?
    yes....
    "You can't have your Kate and Eat her too!"

    Katelia Rk 11 Lm, Peppermintt Rk 12 Warg, Katetastrophe Rk 12 WL, Kateaclysm Rk 15 defiler

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    243
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkit View Post
    Was this promised?
    No, but SSG has been saying for years that they maybe have time to do some PVMP balance after the balance freepclasses. Only thing is that freepclass balance is a continuous problem that needs constant updating. It has never been 'now we're going to focus a bit on pvmp.' They have said it so many times that, even if they said it today, I wouldn't believe it until I see it in a build on Palantir/Bullroarer

    "I also want to say that in the long run we definitely want to support PvMP." - PAX East 2018 Severlin

    Mulatic
    R14 Reaver
    Arkenstone

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Roaming - AFK - Roaming - AFK - Roaming .... (A common creep life)
    Posts
    159

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkit View Post
    Was this promised?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    I'm working on a fairly dramatic rescaling of monster player ratings and such.

    Don't know if it's going to get in quite in time for the initial U25 release, but probably very shortly thereafter, and hopefully before the regular player population reaches cap again.

    -Vastin
    Oct 30 2019
    R15 BLA - DEF - STK R14 BLA - WVR R12 STK R10 RVR - WAR - DEF | GDN - BRG 17 Toons under R10 [LotRO since March 30, 2007 - Proud Game's Founder] Evernight

  7. #7
    and lo and behold as the release notes show they are going to do war banners . The rest was utterly irrelevant .

    I do not think Vastin actually exists .

    I do not think there is any developer .

    Im pretty disgusted with all of them and quite frankly you just cant believe a word they say .

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    The Netherlands
    Posts
    243
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzuriha_EN View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    I'm working on a fairly dramatic rescaling of monster player ratings and such.

    Don't know if it's going to get in quite in time for the initial U25 release, but probably very shortly thereafter, and hopefully before the regular player population reaches cap again.

    -Vastin
    Oct 30 2019
    I forgot this existed. I don't know why scaling creep ratings when increasing the lvlcap was suddenly considered as 'fairly dramatic' as they have been doing that for every lvlcap increase. This update did come out tho. This turned out to be the 2x morale update. I'm pretty sure that morale is the only thing that changed. You could say that 2x creep morale is fairly dramatic but in the end, it's another bandaid solution to stop freeps from 1 shotting creeps all the time. It doesn't matter how much morale a warleader has if curtain freepclasses can interrupt all of their induction heals. PVMP in this game will only be balanced if creepclasses get an update that reflects the changes made to freepside in the last 5/6 of years. Not an overall buff or nerf. As well as a couple of changes to a few freepskills when they are in the moors. As long as that doesn't happen I rely on good geared freeps to nerf themselves, which is also no fun for anyone. If you put the time, effort and money into completely gearing up a freep you shouldn't be punished for it with boring fights that are so easily won you don't get any enjoyment out of winning them. At least this is how it feels on a reaver fighting a freep that isn't geared.

    Mulatic
    R14 Reaver
    Arkenstone

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by galrodan View Post
    I forgot this existed. I don't know why scaling creep ratings when increasing the lvlcap was suddenly considered as 'fairly dramatic' as they have been doing that for every lvlcap increase. This update did come out tho. This turned out to be the 2x morale update. I'm pretty sure that morale is the only thing that changed. You could say that 2x creep morale is fairly dramatic but in the end, it's another bandaid solution to stop freeps from 1 shotting creeps all the time. It doesn't matter how much morale a warleader has if curtain freepclasses can interrupt all of their induction heals. PVMP in this game will only be balanced if creepclasses get an update that reflects the changes made to freepside in the last 5/6 of years. Not an overall buff or nerf. As well as a couple of changes to a few freepskills when they are in the moors. As long as that doesn't happen I rely on good geared freeps to nerf themselves, which is also no fun for anyone. If you put the time, effort and money into completely gearing up a freep you shouldn't be punished for it with boring fights that are so easily won you don't get any enjoyment out of winning them. At least this is how it feels on a reaver fighting a freep that isn't geared.

    Mulatic
    R14 Reaver
    Arkenstone
    Noble sentiments indeed . Sadly wasted on the vast horde of ezmoding fotm freeps that infest Evernight .

    Scaling is just broken , it simply doesn’t work . It produces nothing but grief for us and another avenue to exploit by freeps .

    Is it so much to ask to play on a level playing field ?

    I think it must be

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    14
    It's become very clear that PvMP will not receive any attention. They're telling us that by ignoring it.

    However, if they wanted to take the cheap and easy way out, increase creep morale by another 5-10% and add in 6 more corruption slots, and scale the unscaled skills. Freeps can cap crit, mastery and mitigations, so there's absolutely no reason creeps shouldn't be able to.
    -- Former R11 Captain of Firefoot

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by galrodan View Post
    I forgot this existed. I don't know why scaling creep ratings when increasing the lvlcap was suddenly considered as 'fairly dramatic' as they have been doing that for every lvlcap increase. This update did come out tho. This turned out to be the 2x morale update. I'm pretty sure that morale is the only thing that changed. You could say that 2x creep morale is fairly dramatic but in the end, it's another bandaid solution to stop freeps from 1 shotting creeps all the time. It doesn't matter how much morale a warleader has if curtain freepclasses can interrupt all of their induction heals. PVMP in this game will only be balanced if creepclasses get an update that reflects the changes made to freepside in the last 5/6 of years. Not an overall buff or nerf. As well as a couple of changes to a few freepskills when they are in the moors. As long as that doesn't happen I rely on good geared freeps to nerf themselves, which is also no fun for anyone. If you put the time, effort and money into completely gearing up a freep you shouldn't be punished for it with boring fights that are so easily won you don't get any enjoyment out of winning them. At least this is how it feels on a reaver fighting a freep that isn't geared.

    Mulatic
    R14 Reaver
    Arkenstone
    Creep damage (at least for melee classes) was reduced by 10-20% and regen food was nerfed
    ~Rank 11 Loremaster, Arkenstone~

    ~Rank 14 Warg, Arkenstone~

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by Spilo View Post
    Creep damage (at least for melee classes) was reduced by 10-20% and regen food was nerfed
    And that's just the last few patches. Now imagine when you compare freep to creep changes over the past 6 years. Or start looking at undocumented changes if that were even remotely possible.
    You could probably fill a book with one and be done in a page or 2 with the latter.

    Quote Originally Posted by galrodan View Post
    PVMP in this game will only be balanced if creepclasses get an update that reflects the changes made to freepside in the last 5/6 of years.
    Yes, and no. What IMO the problem is for freepside is the immense bloat in skillset that they currently offer. Everyone can do everything. Everyone has high dps, burst, self healing, cc, slows, cc break, sprints, cleansing and other utility, you name it it's there. And all of it on low CD's. There's no planning anymore, since all skills will be available at all times. There used to be times where you had a few big hitters on a substantial CD, but now anyone can hit for 200k+ with skills that have mere seconds of CD's. When you had to plan your oh #### skills because else you wouldn't have it for the next few fights while now it feels like everyone has like 3 available at any time.
    Now imagine if creepside would also get this...
    High Chieftain Urundus
    Cohorts of the Red Legion
    Arkenstone

  13. #13
    What's so hard in making creeps as strong as freeps?
    I'm not saying nerf freeps, I think freeps should be balanced according to end game content difficulty and that's ok but then, as a consequence, creeps should be balanced to freeps end game gear too.

    Or maybe we should stop logging our creeps, and cancel our vip for a month or two and show SSG how fun etten is...
    Kimaera XIII - Warg
    Chiack Norriis - Reaver
    Uthruk XIII - Warleader
    Angbands Shadow - Eldar/Evernight

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimaera View Post
    Or maybe we should stop logging our creeps
    From the looks of things most already have.

    I took a 5 year break and just recently came back. Unfortunately, the server I'm currently stranded on has zero action. And the imbalance is worse than I've ever seen prior to my break.

    Creeps either need MORE corruption slots or see at least a 50% increase in what we currently have. All classes need better self healing, with defilers and WL buffs/heals scaled up by another 10-20%. Give creeps debuff removal skills on short cds. And give some incentive for freeps to even visit the moors. Do away with the commendation/audacity system entirely as it's boring and nearly impossible for new creeps to get their skills and audacity by just questing on dead servers. Or increase questing comm rewards by 5x,
    Last edited by Dreagon; Aug 04 2020 at 03:09 PM.
    -- Former R11 Captain of Firefoot

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    243
    Quote Originally Posted by Urundus View Post
    Yes, and no. What IMO the problem is for freepside is the immense bloat in skillset that they currently offer. Everyone can do everything. Everyone has high dps, burst, self healing, cc, slows, cc break, sprints, cleansing and other utility, you name it it's there. And all of it on low CD's. There's no planning anymore, since all skills will be available at all times. There used to be times where you had a few big hitters on a substantial CD, but now anyone can hit for 200k+ with skills that have mere seconds of CD's. When you had to plan your oh #### skills because else you wouldn't have it for the next few fights while now it feels like everyone has like 3 available at any time.
    Now imagine if creepside would also get this...
    True... A majority of fights would probably just turn into standstills if creeps had the same arsenal of skills freeps have excess too. But I think that if you take away all of the escape skills freeps have gotten over the years it will kill PvMP entirely. So perhaps somewhere in the middle would be good and a way to double or triple the fight duration. It's no fun to run through 1 rotation in the entire fight. Also forgot to say the obvious #bringbackpvpgear

    Mulatic
    R14 Reaver
    Arkenstone

  16. #16
    Really don’t know why anyone makes threads or responses like these anymore, instead of just ... I don’t know unsubbing and trying something else.
    Stop feeling the need to make some grand exit statement as if anyone cares. I invested time into both sides of the field and it sucks but there’s nothing to be done.

    Pvp for this game will never be worked on, move on already stop whining.
    Pve isn’t even good either.

    Dwarrowdelf: R12 Warden Jak\ R8 Minstrell Amoxx\ R10 Runekeeper Smellslike\ R9 reaver Martiall\ R10 Defiler Tussin-1
    Crickhollow: R12 Defiler Tussinn\ R10 Reaver Martiall\ R10 Warg Superiorskill

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by DickDastardly View Post
    All

    I`ve been following Bullroarer posts about the next update and all I can see is Freeps getting even more buffed . The only thing being attended to for creeps is as follows ,

    "PvMP
    Warleader's Command Post summoned banner will once again grant buffs to Monster Play characters within range.
    The following Osgiliath Monster Play quests will once again advance properly: Conquering the Ornendil, Looking for Conflict, The Ornendil Bridge Belongs to Mordor, and The Belegiant Bridge Belongs to Mordor.
    Monster player inventory, quest, and barter items should no longer have a red border unless they actually cannot be used due to class, rank, or other restrictions."

    I can tell SSG now they are going to have a lot of very angry and fed up customers if this is all they are doing . No one other than cheats and clubbers cares about Osgiliath . Dump the area , stop wasting time and resources on it . Stop wasting time on silly cosmetics such as red borders as again no one cares . Who actually sits down and places utter nonsense like this on the agenda for patches /updates ?

    Freeps are so far ahead at the moment that any further buff without the corresponding attention to creep side being made is just one more slap in the face from SSG .

    Where is the attention that was promised after you balanced out and buffed freeps ?
    Hate to break it to you but:

    "No one other than cheats and clubbers cares about Osgiliath"

    Umm, that's described 90% of freepside participation in the 'moors for years now.
    Team Milt.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by galrodan View Post
    True... A majority of fights would probably just turn into standstills if creeps had the same arsenal of skills freeps have excess too. But I think that if you take away all of the escape skills freeps have gotten over the years it will kill PvMP entirely. So perhaps somewhere in the middle would be good and a way to double or triple the fight duration. It's no fun to run through 1 rotation in the entire fight. Also forgot to say the obvious #bringbackpvpgear

    Mulatic
    R14 Reaver
    Arkenstone
    This honestly.

    I'm not sure how they fix it at this point. They let things get out of hand with freep stats and cooldowns. The amount of defensive skills, short cooldowns, self heals and 300k+ crits on freepside can never be replicated on creepside, because then you end up with fights that most likely never end. We aren't talking about one class being broken at this point, it's practically all of them. This has been a gradual change ever since SoA when they've slowly reduced cooldowns on strong skills. Some from 30 mins to 3-5 mins. You practically have every skill available every fight now. Though, I'd be perfectly ok with longer fights again. More fighting, less being grey barred until I die.

    A few places to start would be giving creeps higher base mits, reduce cooldowns on some skills (reavers hit like a wet noodle now with some of their strongest skills still with 5-10 mins cds, as an example). Remove inductions on defiler curses and all heals except fell restoration. Bring back back real red dot immunity from stuns/knockdowns and make ALL slows in the moors 10-15%. 50% unpottable slows have no place in pvp. Give all creeps skills on a 15-30s cd that remove up to 3 wound/fear/disease/poison debuffs. I'd like to see high ranked creeps have a dread aura. Make racials and class traits inherent from rank instead of having to choose. Etc.

    There's a number of things SSG can do to make pvmp great again without nerfing freeps or overpowering creeps. Will they though? Probably not.
    -- Former R11 Captain of Firefoot

 

 

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