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  1. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    I found Rohan themed housing decorations available from the NPCs that give quests in the housing neighborhoods. If that isn't what you are asking for, then sure; add another.

    Those I have found and they are really great. I meant a vendor for normal house decoration like the one in Belfalas homesteads which has all of the old housing items.
    "...In the information society, nobody thinks. We expected to banish paper, but we actually banished thought."
    Ian Malcolm
    From: Crichton, Michael. Jurassic Park

  2. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    SSG should have reduced the cooldown of true heroics for blue line champ many years ago, it is something that has been asked for, many times across many forums, it hasn't been done. They have instead given us a new taunt, which, covers both the lack of aggro a champ has + the ability to have a reliable aoe taunt on a short(er) cooldown, however, the implementation of this specific taunt is ludicrous and should be revised.
    Yes i want it too since many years.


    Why it is ludicrous an should be revised ? Explain me. I don't understand the problem. Is my solution not good ? (different effect with each trait line ? )

  3. #128
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    My turn for my 2cents.

    Captain
    As has been mentioned, cappy skills are still buggy.

    Champ
    you changed the learning-point of the skills, which is fine.
    Horn of Champions is... contentious. Now I personally don't think this is going to have too much of an effect on gameplay as I've encountered few raid champs who run Horn of Champions. HOWEVER. I am in full agreement with other people in this thread that the AoE taunt which is currently attached to Horn of Champions should ONLY take effect in blue line. This should not apply for Red or Yellow. OR the damage debuff on Horn of Champions should be moved somewhere else.

    Lore-Master
    You could stand to reduce the cooldown on dispel corruptions a bit more I think, but honestly I have no skin in the game for these changes.

    Minstrel
    No qualms.

    Rune-Keeper
    Slight increase to corruptions/decade, it'll be nice.

    Warden
    Melee skills update to 5.2 meters is very welcome.
    Shield-Slam (interrupt) DOES pull its damage type from shield spikes. this is good.
    Reversal being granted at a lower level is fine.
    Warning Shot cd reduction is welcome but seems like its been pulled down too low. However, its basically in-line with the cooldowns from guard I suppose (multiple st taunts) so I guess we let it slide?
    Defiant Challenge. Buffs have been extended to 30s and 32s (mits) so cd bump to 30s for the skill is fine.

    Beornings I can't speak to

    Burglar
    I fear the scaling for Malicious Wound may have been screwed up, see earlier in the thread.

    Guardian
    Personally, I prefer 45s AoE taunts, however this really won't have an impact on gameplay. 10x multiplier on a copy already meant that if you taunt once sub 90% you basically had the mob for life.

    Hunter
    Okay, you screwed the pooch here

    Blindside: used to be around 2.5 to 3s worth of quick shots in terms of animation time. Now is nearly instant (less than 1 quickshot).
    Still generates 3 focus.
    And damage is scaled wonky. I think this may be the most powerful interrupt in the game in terms of sheer immediate damage.

    Lets talk blindside real quick. You've basically doubled the CD on a 3focus skill making focus generation for Blindside down about 50%. However you've also cut the animation lock of the skill and increased its usability by giving it range. So while you've nerfed its total potential contribution per-fight you've actually increased the amount of focus which will be generated from it on a per-fight basis as its now more usable than before.
    (note: blindside is still typed as a 'melee skill')
    Something has to give with this skill. Either it needs to no longer generate focus and have its damage nerfed to be roughly comparable to the damage of other interrupts. OR you need to revert the skill and just add a new interrupt skill (like you did with wardens).
    As it currently stands, hunters will STILL not have a ranged interrupt because you're going to see Blindside be used in-rotation for focus gain. Even by those who weren't before.

    /2cents

  4. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    Yes i want it too since many years.


    Why it is ludicrous an should be revised ? Explain me. I don't understand the problem. Is my solution not good ? (different effect with each trait line ? )
    You cannot really give a skill that is a blue line skill, a different effect in each trait line. You can only do that if it is a standard skill of each trait line like Guardian's Ward for example.

    The reason why this taunt on horn of champs is bad is because of the following reasons:

    • It's a debuff skill, not a taunt. This will be counterproductive for blue champs who need to debuff something but also need to taunt something else.
      -
    • It's not a blue-only thing, red and yellow won't be able to use this skill anymore thus losing utility.
      -
    • (blue) champs can no longer debuff mobs tanked by another tank unless you specifically plan for this each time. This will also make it impossible to use in certain situations. (for debuffing)
      -
    • 30 secs on an aoe taunt is too fast for a chimp, 45s should be the minimum especially considering champs now got 2 AoE taunts (sure true heroics is pretty trash)


    The idea behind it was great but the implementation is very bad, SSG should really find another solution for blue champs. Like many have already suggested before: Reduce the CD of True Heroics.

  5. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by mrplaneswalker View Post
    My turn for my 2cents.

    Captain
    As has been mentioned, cappy skills are still buggy.

    Champ
    you changed the learning-point of the skills, which is fine.
    Horn of Champions is... contentious. Now I personally don't think this is going to have too much of an effect on gameplay as I've encountered few raid champs who run Horn of Champions. HOWEVER. I am in full agreement with other people in this thread that the AoE taunt which is currently attached to Horn of Champions should ONLY take effect in blue line. This should not apply for Red or Yellow. OR the damage debuff on Horn of Champions should be moved somewhere else.

    Lore-Master
    You could stand to reduce the cooldown on dispel corruptions a bit more I think, but honestly I have no skin in the game for these changes.

    Minstrel
    No qualms.

    Rune-Keeper
    Slight increase to corruptions/decade, it'll be nice.

    Warden
    Melee skills update to 5.2 meters is very welcome.
    Shield-Slam (interrupt) DOES pull its damage type from shield spikes. this is good.
    Reversal being granted at a lower level is fine.
    Warning Shot cd reduction is welcome but seems like its been pulled down too low. However, its basically in-line with the cooldowns from guard I suppose (multiple st taunts) so I guess we let it slide?
    Defiant Challenge. Buffs have been extended to 30s and 32s (mits) so cd bump to 30s for the skill is fine.

    Beornings I can't speak to

    Burglar
    I fear the scaling for Malicious Wound may have been screwed up, see earlier in the thread.

    Guardian
    Personally, I prefer 45s AoE taunts, however this really won't have an impact on gameplay. 10x multiplier on a copy already meant that if you taunt once sub 90% you basically had the mob for life.

    Hunter
    Okay, you screwed the pooch here

    Blindside: used to be around 2.5 to 3s worth of quick shots in terms of animation time. Now is nearly instant (less than 1 quickshot).
    Still generates 3 focus.
    And damage is scaled wonky. I think this may be the most powerful interrupt in the game in terms of sheer immediate damage.

    Lets talk blindside real quick. You've basically doubled the CD on a 3focus skill making focus generation for Blindside down about 50%. However you've also cut the animation lock of the skill and increased its usability by giving it range. So while you've nerfed its total potential contribution per-fight you've actually increased the amount of focus which will be generated from it on a per-fight basis as its now more usable than before.
    (note: blindside is still typed as a 'melee skill')
    Something has to give with this skill. Either it needs to no longer generate focus and have its damage nerfed to be roughly comparable to the damage of other interrupts. OR you need to revert the skill and just add a new interrupt skill (like you did with wardens).
    As it currently stands, hunters will STILL not have a ranged interrupt because you're going to see Blindside be used in-rotation for focus gain. Even by those who weren't before.

    /2cents

    I could not agree more about blindside as I have been saying in this thread. Just leave it alone and make a generic ranged interupt, problem solved.

  6. #131
    I am in agreement with the rest of the community when it comes to the Horn of Champions. If it will forced taunt than in blue line only.

    Also, guardian need some serious work, and rune keeper boost. What I see here won't make any difference in the fact that those two classes are not viable for more challenging content. That is just unacceptable in my opinion :/

  7. #132
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    Honestly, the best idea for a champ revision I've seen is this:

    Reduce Heroics to 30s CD.
    Remove Taunt from Horn of Champions.

    You get a short-cd taunt
    you can use HoC while Offtanking without pulling.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrplaneswalker View Post
    You could stand to reduce the cooldown on dispel corruptions a bit more I think, but honestly I have no skin in the game for these changes.
    Cordovan mention in one of last Cord of the Rings, what all this changes was maked for future content. It's hard to judge them by current content

  9. #134
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    Dev Response

    Despite the discussion between myself and Duck which took up numerous posts in this thread, there is very evidently common ground, especially in what everyone else has posted as well, and that is:

    --

    The new Champion taunt is being implemented in an extremely bad way and we would appreciate some communication in regards to changing this before it gets to the live server.

    AND

    The fact that Runekeepers are still extremely far behind all other DPS classes in both Red and Yellow line and we would appreciate some communication in regards to how the developers plan to bridge the gap between the RK and the other DPS classes.

    --

    There is also still zero information surrounding the STEALTH Captain bleed nerf which took place in U26.
    And the trait Elendil's Fury is still making Blade of Elendil a force taunt as I noted in my first review of the upcoming patch and has still been confirmed as a bug / not WAI in this most recent BR build.

    --

    Dev response, please?

  10. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    You cannot really give a skill that is a blue line skill, a different effect in each trait line. You can only do that if it is a standard skill of each trait line like Guardian's Ward for example.
    Or like true heroic on champ. It was my point. Did you read what i said before about transform this skill in dps line with + 3 % damage for all party ?

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    It's a debuff skill, not a taunt. This will be counterproductive for blue champs who need to debuff something but also need to taunt something else.
    Not false because debuffing damage + area taunt is logic. And let me remember you the purpose of blue champ tank is to mitig incoming damage. All his major survival skill goes in this way. Last update was fine too with adding -30 percent damage on mono taunt.

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    It's not a blue-only thing, red and yellow won't be able to use this skill anymore thus losing utility.
    (blue) champs can no longer debuff mobs tanked by another tank unless you specifically plan for this each time. This will also make it impossible to use in certain situations. (for debuffing
    I had already answered to that. Red and yellow champ's purpose is dps not debuffing. And again the purpose in blue line is to mitigate his own incoming damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    30 secs on an aoe taunt is too fast for a chimp, 45s should be the minimum especially considering champs now got 2 AoE taunts (sure true heroics is pretty trash)
    Why is it too fast ? What is the problem ? Now with this new 30s taunt we do not need reduce true heroic taunt.


    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    The idea behind it was great but the implementation is very bad, SSG should really find another solution for blue champs. Like many have already suggested before: Reduce the CD of True Heroics.
    No i disagree now we don't need anymore an reduce of true heroic's cd. The implementation is logic but should be improve (skill with different effect in each line and add or modify some red/yellow (passive) trait line.

    But work isn't finished. Dev should now improve 2 things :

    - Dire Need : with a low mana pool (6/8k) auto heal is ridiculous. For example give some 2% of moral max for each opponent surrounding champion and 5 % if there is only one opponent. Or the easy way up % moral received.

    - Bracing Attack : give 2 fervour point each...30s and heal is too low. I don't have any idea how to improve it. I feel the split with Fight On was a very bad idea.

  11. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    Despite the discussion between myself and Duck which took up numerous posts in this thread, there is very evidently common ground, especially in what everyone else has posted as well, and that is:

    --

    The new Champion taunt is being implemented in an extremely bad way and we would appreciate some communication in regards to changing this before it gets to the live server.
    But where are YOURS argument ? Saying this is just bad isn't enough. What do you thinks they should do (don't tell me reduce true heroic 's cd please -_-' )

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    But where are YOURS argument ? Saying this is just bad isn't enough. What do you thinks they should do (don't tell me reduce true heroic 's cd please -_-' )
    you dont play a champion it seems, but okay stuff can be explained easily
    just because you are playing as a damage dealer doesnt mean you cannot help with debuffing this is literally the main crux of raiding. every class has their main role and thats all dandy but what else do they bring
    a good champ will keep using horn before larger strikes and optimize rotation to hit before such strikes this however will not be possible anymore as they will have a taunt effect making champs prime targets but then this raises a problem of champs that are not in whatever-the-hell blue line is supposed to be. yellow and red, aoe taunting, you can get the idea unless that needs explaining too
    oh and yes, to take the aggro of the champ after the horn you will need to use a tanks aoe taunt....and guess what...that might be needed elsewhere. literally only way this change can be made is to use horn of champions and then a crafted horn to stun the mobs during the effect. but then you wasted a crafted horn for a skill that shouldnt have a taunt effect applied to it.

    so to summarize actual arguments:
    - non-blue champ risks a lot by using horn of champions for the debuff
    - forces tanks to cover the aggro with their own aoe taunt, putting them on cooldown
    - can force a crafted horn usage
    - can force a cooldown to prevent the massive damage that champ is about to take

    i hope this "debate" can die and we get better taunts. this doesnt work at all.

    also 30 seconds on all taunts is far too low it will make aggro completely trivial. but at the same time considering the average player they wont be able to keep aggro anyway lul

  13. #138
    Where do they post when Bullroarer is opened - is any schedule listed? Just trying to figure out if there is a way to know when I could log in, other than just checking the launcher.

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripecat View Post
    Where do they post when Bullroarer is opened - is any schedule listed? Just trying to figure out if there is a way to know when I could log in, other than just checking the launcher.
    There will always be a stickied thread in the Bullroarer forums announcing the status of Bullroarer when it is online and available to players.

    There is no regular schedule. QA hosts Preview sessions on Bullroarer when the testing schedule allows, usually multiple sessions with server updates for our larger content releases.
    Quality Assurance Tester
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    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." -Gandalf

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post

    The new Champion taunt is being implemented in an extremely bad way and we would appreciate some communication in regards to changing this before it gets to the live server.

    AND

    The fact that Runekeepers are still extremely far behind all other DPS classes in both Red and Yellow line and we would appreciate some communication in regards to how the developers plan to bridge the gap between the RK and the other DPS classes.

    Agree.

    We asked for champions buffs not for Rks nerfs and definitely not to take the Rks spots in raids.Before those updates the spots in raids was 1 champion(not fixed) vs 5 rks in a group.Now is 5 champions with 1 rk.Can we at last have some balance so ppl will return to their mains and every class would be useful?Give Rks some buffs.Thank you.
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  16. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by HotStuffs View Post
    you dont play a champion it seems, but okay stuff can be explained easily
    just because you are playing as a damage dealer doesnt mean you cannot help with debuffing this is literally the main crux of raiding. every class has their main role and thats all dandy but what else do they bring
    a good champ will keep using horn before larger strikes and optimize rotation to hit before such strikes this however will not be possible anymore as they will have a taunt effect making champs prime targets but then this raises a problem of champs that are not in whatever-the-hell blue line is supposed to be. yellow and red, aoe taunting, you can get the idea unless that needs explaining too
    oh and yes, to take the aggro of the champ after the horn you will need to use a tanks aoe taunt....and guess what...that might be needed elsewhere. literally only way this change can be made is to use horn of champions and then a crafted horn to stun the mobs during the effect. but then you wasted a crafted horn for a skill that shouldnt have a taunt effect applied to it.

    so to summarize actual arguments:
    - non-blue champ risks a lot by using horn of champions for the debuff
    - forces tanks to cover the aggro with their own aoe taunt, putting them on cooldown
    - can force a crafted horn usage
    - can force a cooldown to prevent the massive damage that champ is about to take

    i hope this "debate" can die and we get better taunts. this doesnt work at all.

    also 30 seconds on all taunts is far too low it will make aggro completely trivial. but at the same time considering the average player they wont be able to keep aggro anyway lul
    Start debat with personnal attack isn't so good otherwise i am main champ (not the best for sure and not with the perfect knowledge about all) and i don't want repeat what i said before because you didn't read. And you should let answer Hephburz-2 because my point is ask him to stop crying here and only said champ is bad. It's useless this don't help. My point isn't to say all is fine and update is good but it's go in right direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    I won't even bother replying to you anymore, your last post just lost you any and all credibility quite frankly.
    Oh god i didn't see all other post you make, my bad. Forget this then But i am happy with the news change and yes as i said horn should'nt be a taunt on red/yellow line but in my opinion débuff isn't a champion job.

    Are we good now ?
    Last edited by Papou_sous_la_montagne; Jul 31 2020 at 04:53 PM.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    Oh god i didn't see all other post you make, my bad. Forget this then But i am happy with the news change and yes as i said horn should'nt be a taunt on red/yellow line but in my opinion débuff isn't a champion job.
    Are we good now ?
    So a DPS class should only have pure DPS skills or what? Literally all DPS classes can use different debuff/cc/taunt/heal skills etc.. Should they be removed for all DPS classes? Is that what you want? Before trait trees, the classes needed to utilize those skills a lot more, other than just mindless DPS spam and that was good IMO.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotStuffs View Post
    also 30 seconds on all taunts is far too low it will make aggro completely trivial. but at the same time considering the average player they wont be able to keep aggro anyway lul
    Big +1 kek

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murtanion View Post
    I really don't understand this change. Guardian already has excellent AoE threat generation, and is currently the best AoE tank. Although it is a welcome CD reduction they TOTALLY failed to address the actual issues with the class.

    Captain is still miles ahead of any tank for T2+ content.
    Beorning is the best AoE tank.
    Since aggro generation is broken in this game since years, this change is welcome, albeit that it do not address the main issue.

  20. #145
    CaerArianrhod's Avatar
    CaerArianrhod is offline Rohirrim Scout
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    The biting edge cd increase is good but thunderous roar on a 30s cd? That's the most ridiculous thing ever. Beornings are the best aggro tanks in the game and now you're reducing an infinite target taunt to 30secs? it should stay at 1m15 (without legacy). Seriously do not apply this change to live servers. An infinite target taunt on 30secs! Not only that... but they literally give this to the tank who is already the best at aggro to begin with... what in the world is this change.

    Challenge should have been reduced to 45s. 30s is way too fast and just promotes afk tanking.
    But most importantly: this change will not fix guards at all. Guardians will still be total garbage. But this is just an overall small changes update to all classes so i guess this is not meant to be the guardian update lol.

    Reducing AoE taunt cd's is horrible.
    You seems to have problems to understand what SSG is doing here.
    Of course this changes do not address the broken aggro generation, but it address a need for tank classes. Of course i would like to see better rework how aggro is generated in this game, but meanwhile i welcome this changes.

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod View Post
    Beorning is the best AoE tank.
    Since aggro generation is broken in this game since years, this change is welcome, albeit that it do not address the main issue.
    just as welcome as personal attacks you made lul



    Quote Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod View Post
    You seems to have problems to understand what SSG is doing here.
    Of course this changes do not address the broken aggro generation, but it address a need for tank classes. Of course i would like to see better rework how aggro is generated in this game, but meanwhile i welcome this changes.
    taunts and availability of them will not address the issue lmao
    every single mmo has the longest queue times for healing and tank classes and finding good ones is difficult (eso, wow, final fantasy, you name it, it has a shortage of those two). making more classes available to it will not change anything because tanking is simply not attractive as other roles.
    30 second cds on taunts make aggro catching completely trivial but as explained in previous post people who use taunts at start of a fight will keep doing it cause they are self-perceived gods of the game and refuse to improve so they will rather welcome unneeded changes. yes this is a call out to multiple people that have posted in here and tanking threads

  22. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod View Post
    You seems to have problems to understand what SSG is doing here.
    Of course this changes do not address the broken aggro generation, but it address a need for tank classes. Of course i would like to see better rework how aggro is generated in this game, but meanwhile i welcome this changes.
    Reducing AoE taunt cds will not change the fact that only 1 class can actually tank the relevant content.

    Captain can tank all content while often being able to carry groups in 3man-6man content.

    Guardian can tank most content but is very outdated in its ways, being too squishy, with zero utility. Often being a massive handicap to the group in actually difficult content.

    Wardens can only tank irrelevant content, they are too squishy and unscaled to tank anything meaningful.

    Chanks are the biggest jokes and cannot tank any relevant content due to being the most outdated tanks in lotro history.

    Beornings are quite a special exception, they are kinda wannabe captains but lacking the survivability and group healing to compete with captains

    Reducing taunt cds won't help tanks to not die. Most classes can aggro perfectly fine atm but are just way too squishy or just bring way too little utility to the group to be able to tank something. And if you need a taunt reduction to 30secs to tank then u will still be tanking irrelevant content no matter how good the class cause you're not skilled enough, thus such players won't return. Or how HotStuffs said it: ''Knowing the average player, they still won't be able to hold aggro anyways''

    If people who can tank with a 1min taunt (higher skilled players) can't even survive current content and quit then what makes you think people who can only tank with a 30sec cd (Lower skilled players) will all of a sudden make a return to tanking. The 30sec cd peeps won't stand a chance at all either way.
    Last edited by HolyDuckTape; Aug 01 2020 at 12:54 PM.

  23. #148
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    The premise that @CaerArianrhod is raising is one that I myself have tried to resonate in this thread -


    Will these changes fix long-standing issues surrounding Tanks in terms of survivability, and utility especially in comparison to Captains, of course not, that is part of a much wider rework that absolutely NEEDS to take place before the next raid, at least for Guardians if not for all other tanks.

    But the underlying argument is, we have no idea with what in mind SSG are making these changes, the normalisation of aoe taunts, interrupts and corruption removal obviously will have something to do with upcoming content for which we are not aware. At the higher tiers of play, and for better-skilled players, sure, these taunt changes are an irrelevant slap in the face to an already dead mechanic, but at the same time, we have to remember the number of players who fall into that category is barely 10% at best, and SSG doesn't, and I don't think will ever balance classes or mechanics for that 10%.

    Chanks struggle with aggro/threat immensely, and whilst we have been arguing for a cooldown reduction on true heroics for many years, SSG have opted to go in a different direction, aside from its bizarre implementation, I'm ecstatic about the new taunt, it will go a long way to bridging one of the main things that have been holding Chanks back for a long time, and that is simply their ability to get and maintain aggro.

    The changes to the other 4 tanks, probably weren't necessary, but, what can you do?

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papou_sous_la_montagne View Post
    In yellow / red i am a dps not a debuffer. This is burglar/LM job not mine !
    It may not be your Champ's job, but it is for mine. I don't have a Burglar or a Lore Master. I have a red-line Guardian. This is how we play, and debuffing is a useful survival tool while duoing.

    Having the entire discussion shaped by the end-game raiding community is frustrating for those of us not participating in that.
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  25. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Seschat View Post
    It may not be your Champ's job, but it is for mine. I don't have a Burglar or a Lore Master. I have a red-line Guardian. This is how we play, and debuffing is a useful survival tool while duoing.

    Having the entire discussion shaped by the end-game raiding community is frustrating for those of us not participating in that.
    the endgame raiding community are the ones who support the debuff instead of the taunt tho.

 

 
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