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  1. #1
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    Post Everything wrong with guardians @Vastin

    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    .
    On the plus side, Guardians ARE due for an update soon, so I'll be looking at their general balance. I'm also going to be trying to improve the role of BPE in the game as a whole, so they will likely benefit from that as well.

    -Vastin
    So first off it's nice that guardians are finally getting some attention again after a few years. Thanks for the upcoming update.
    But the big problem is that guardians need a ton of changes, let's just hope that this update will fix a ton and won't just be a small update to fix a few things and then abandon guardians for 2-3+ years again.

    I'll list the general problems guards are having at endgame/cap level content in this thread just to help out mapping out the big issues. I'm not the best list maker so sorry for this kek! I will also be making more detailed lists with suggestions/changes most guardians need to dig their way out of the grave again. Feel free to add anything you want to any guard reading this thread.
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    GENERAL ISSUES:

    1. BPE is and has been irrelevant for quite a few level caps already. With level 130 being the worst expansion ever so far for BPE tanking. It has gotten to the point of Juggernaut and Guardian's pledge not even doing anything anymore in this content cause there is almost nothing to BPE. Everything just goes right through.

    2. Warchant does not affect skills like Overwhelm/Shield-Taunt

    3. Warchant sometimes does not reduce the cd of skills at all.

    4. Shield-Smash calculates it's AoE hit from the frontal PoV of the mob

    5. Insult to Injury makes ''Terrible Wound'' Crit chance crazy low, about 4% ish

    6. Warrior's Heart incoming healing rating has not been scaled and is still too low.

    7. Warrior's Heart mastery has been slightly scaled in lv130 but it is not good at all

    8. There are not enough adds in 6mans/raids

    9. There are too many big hits in current content. You will almost not see any small hits in big quantities. Just huge big hits going through BPE.

    10. The BPE cap is too huge and the BPE % cap is too low, i would like it to be increased (13%>18% from rating)

    11. Tactical mitigation is impossible to cap, reduce this cap by a lot

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    RED LINE ISSUES:

    1. The damage has not scaled up that well since lv115, many skills still do aprox. the same dmg on 130 as they did in 115. Especially the bleeds.


    2. It has a few useless traits that definitely need to be replaced or completely changed: -''Reactive Parry'' -''Thrill of battle'' -''Honourable Combat''


    3. It has a lot of traits that need some serious buffing to them.
    -''Heavy Weapons Training'' -''To the Rescue'' -''Prey on The Weak (or replace)'' -''Protection by the Sword'' -''Heavy Blows'' -''Hammer Down''


    4. It has horrible crit chance even tho it is quite dependent on it. It is the only dps class in the game that can't hit an unbuffed 30% crit chance. Guards can't even reach it while self buffed... It has a whopping 25-27% crit chance. All other classes are on average in the 30-40% crit chance zone.
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    BLUE LINE:
    Utility, survivability, traits are all issues for blue guards, with utility being the main problem

    1. Traits that need to be replaced or changed entirely: ''Adaptability'' ''Disorientation'' ''Break Ranks''

    2. Traits or skills that need to be buffed: ''Shield Wall'' ''Litanny of Defiance'' ''Stoic'' ''Guardians ward tactics'' ''Guardians ward'' ''Shield-Taunt'' ''Stagger''

    3. Blue Guards are meant to be the superheavy tanks of the game, the true mit tanks/inc dmg tanks. But they don't really have much of an advantage over other classes at it honestly. Constant class changes without ever changing guard has made it that other tank classes are quickly catching up to guard inc dmg/mits wise. Also Guards do not have any morale trait bonuses vs other classes, putting them at a disadvantage so big, that the tiny mit difference won't make up for it, making the other tanks ultimately tankier than guards. Let's compare.

    -Beorning: 75% P, 70% T 20% morale bear form + Vitality trait + 4,8 morale
    -Guardian: 70% P, 70% T 0% morale, NO vitality trait, 4,8 morale
    -Warden: 65% P, 65% T (70%-70% with 130 set bonus) 20% Morale, NO vitality trait, 4,8 morale
    -Captain: 63% P, 63% T 33% Morale, NO vitality trait, 4,5 morale
    -Champion: 60% P, 65% T 20% Morale, Vitality trait, 4,5 morale

    I would say from tankiest to less tankiest it would look something like: Captain > Beorning > Guardian > Warden > Champion

    4. Blue Guardian has literally zero group/raid utility, let's compare:
    -Captain: To arms, Yellow/Red Banner, Double rez, Revealing mark/Telling mark, Brothers call, -5% inc dmg, AoE healing, Muster Courage, SoD, In harms way+LS
    -Beorning: Armour crush, Bees, Healing, Sacrifice, Rez, -40% outgoing dmg
    -Warden: Mit javelins, group wide mits
    -Champion: -10% outgoing, -20% outgoing dmg, -30% outgoing dmg,
    -Guardian: 2% raid wide mit and a shield wall/litanny of defiance that you literally can never use unless you want to die.

    Utility wise it would look like: Captain > Beorning > Warden/Champion > Guardian

    As you can see Guardians have the WORST utility out of all tanks and are also beaten survivability wise by captain/beorning.

    5. Guardians got very weak passive BPE. Guardians are not meant to be a BPE tank cause that's warden's job but guardian still gets beaten by all tank classes BPE wise.
    -Captain: 5% parry, 5% block, 8% evade, big amount of BP from rating
    -Wardens: huge amount from self buffing but still weaker than captains which is ridiculouss
    -Champion: 5% block, 15% parry, big amount of BP from rating
    -Beorning: 10% evade, huge amount of BPE from rating
    -Guardian: 5% block, average amount of parry from rating and huge amount of block from rating. (U can't trait the 5% parry chance unless you sacrifice blue capstone/yellow redirect.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    YELLOW LINE:
    Yellow line is meant to be a debuffing off-tank. But the debuffs have become obsolete, they were good in the past but in todays content these debuffs won't really do much. This whole line doesn't even really seem to work that much.

    1. Run speed debuffs are pretty much useless now, replace this

    2. Traits that need to be replaced or changed entirely: ''Insult to Injury'' ''Manifested Ire''

    3. Traits that need to be buffed: ''Protection'' ''Cataclysmic Shout'' ''Singular Focus'' ''Radiate''

    4. Cataclysmic shout does not copy and spread all non-damaging debuffs from your marked target to 5 others like it's supossed to.

    5. Radiate does not seem to spread debuffs that much and if it does it only caps out at 1 or 2 spreads max if lucky. So the debuffing in general is quite weak.

    6. Flash of light does too much dmg on lower levels, but too little dmg on cap level. It does generate a bit too much aggro tho even to the point of never needing a taunt when fighting 5-6 ish mobs.

    Back when changes were made in 120 i really liked flash of light when it was at 10k, i would say 7,5-10k would have been great but it got reduced to 5k, honestly way too low. Now at lv 130 it is 7-8-9k depending on tier/mits of the mob ofcourse. 10k+ on mobs with a weakness to light (orcs). I would say at 130 Flash of light should be somwehere around 15k-25k to give it any noticeable damage without buffing dps geared yellow guards too much.
    Last edited by HolyDuckTape; Jun 19 2020 at 11:55 PM.

  2. #2
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    RED LINE SUGESSTIONS/CHANGES


    Alright, i will be going more into detail for red line in this post to give some suggestions and explanations if needed. Anyone feel free to add any suggestions/changes you want to see on guardians!

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    2. It has a few useless traits that definitely need to be replaced or completely changed: -''Reactive Parry'' -''Thrill of battle'' -''Honourable Combat''
    1. Alright Reactive Parry is totally useless, You will never even have a mob's aggro and even if you do you will die in a few hits most likely. Also the dmg from this is only like 1-3k.

    Replace this trait with anything really, +10% bleed crit chance, +5% crit chance, flat dmg increase, sweeping cut bleed dmg, crit heals etc.
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    2. Thrill of battle is the worst heal ever. A 0,5-2,5% crit heal every 20s.

    Change it to become the new 5% crit chance trait (1% per point) or make it a 1-5% crit heal without cd. I prefer the 1st option by far.
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    3. Honourable combat is just a total joke and it's a capstone aswell. Too long cd for too little healing for literally losing dps.

    Change this to some passive healing thing or something dps related.

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    3. It has a lot of traits that need some serious buffing to them.
    -''Heavy Weapons Training'' -''To the Rescue'' -''Prey on The Weak (or replace)'' -''Protection by the Sword'' -''Heavy Blows'' -''Hammer Down''
    1. Heavy weapons training should be 2% for each point 2-10% skill dmg
    -------------------------------------------------
    2. To the rescue costs way too many points for such a tiny buff. Change the 10% movement speed buff to an additional 10% dmg or 10% crit buff
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    3. Prey on the weak is a terrible capstone and only hits for like 5k... buff this up to a MINIMUM of 30k and give the trait a small crit chance increase too to help getting it off more. something like 2,5% or 5% if you haven't added the 5% already. OR completely replace this with something else.
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    4. Buff protection by the sword to give a +20% melee dmg to the raid instead of 2%. 20% melee damage = 20% melee mastery which isn't even as strong as it sounds. 20% would actually be a somewhat useful utility to have, it wouln't be too strong at all, just a normal good buff. Or just buff it up with whatever you want, anything is better than 2% melee dmg!!
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    5. Heavy Blows is quite a meh trait especially for something so far down the line. Increase the bonus damage you receive from it 5% > 10/15%
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    6. Hammer Down, Honestly no one uses this skill to stun anything and most of the time the target will just be immune, i would prefer for ''hammer down'' to put an incoming dmg debuff on the target. Something like +5-10% inc dmg useable at any morale treshold. OR just change it to a knockdown/FM or dmg buff to the guard just like the throne set does. The inc dmg change would be VERY good for red guards cause they got zero group utility. Also decrease it's cd from 40s > 20s
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    4. It has horrible crit chance even tho it is quite dependent on it. It is the only dps class in the game that can't hit an unbuffed 30% crit chance. Guards can't even reach it while self buffed... It has a whopping 25-27% crit chance. All other classes are on average in the 30-40% crit chance zone.
    As stated above with the trait changes, give guards atleast a +5% crit chance through traiting.
    Last edited by HolyDuckTape; Jun 19 2020 at 10:00 PM.

  3. #3
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    No comments on your yellow/red points outside of hell yes to cataclysmic shout buff. Literally just a cooldown reduction pleaseeeeeee. Stun + guarantee spread of debuffs, cool, great, nice (if it works which you report it is currently bugged). 3minute cooldown? Ehhhhhhh. 1 minute I think would be ideal

    Preface this by saying I think most work around making a guard tank "good" lies with statting changes like how much an avoidance/ich essence give. And also with content changes. So my following comments are based on the assumption avoidances are "good" cuz they sure as hell arent worth anything in Remm right now, but lets leave that fact out of discussion for the class itself.

    Blue comments about your post

    -Adaptability does not need changed. It just needs to be scaled, thats it. It has lvl 105 ratings still essentially. Back at that cap it was phenomenal for getting avoidances. Now it isn't
    -I think Disorientation is a fine enough trait since we have so much that we can get out of yellow line for tanking right now. There is not a lack of stuff to spend trait points on. If a guardian wants to make a unique blue line set up that traits that for some damage increase on landscape or in small group content then great in my opinion. If we had no where else to spend our points for full fledged raid tanking, Id want it changed, but leave it as is please. Kinda like how you can trait for evasion in blue line on rk. It isn't meant for the hardcore raiders and there is still plenty of other stuff to spend traits on, we just simply do not spend points in it, life is good.
    -I also feel the same way about Break Ranks as I do about Disorientation. Though I would like to say keep its principle the same but maybe add a +% crit chance to your cashed-out-forts buff.
    -Ward tactics does not need a buff. It did get scaled properly here a little bit ago, its just that avoidances in general are bad+tact mits. If those 2 stats go up across the board including with this skill then its honestly really strong :P If anything, increase its base duration to 20s simply for QoL improvement (yes I know you can get that with an unimbued mainhand, thats why I would like it just added to the skills base duration)
    -Shield wall/Litany could go to be less suicide prone skills. Shield wall I wouldn't want altered too much, maybe apply the abyss set to some degree to the skill just passively (abyss set reduced the damage redirected via shieldwall by 33%) but the skill is real unique and has its niche implications. Litany could perhaps apply the extra mit cash out effect to the fellowship as a whole instead of just the guard and then also give it a huge incoming healing buff on the guard (50%+).
    -Stagger I could see having a -dmg debuff added to it. Not too much, 5% or less even. But make it so a tank will actually use this on something isnt just a Creep they are trolling.

    Stoic I find alright with its bubble application mechanic. What I have not figured out is why would it heal you if the bubble doesnt expire? Like, that means you didn't take much damage and should literally be at full health since WH is a full heal with the legacy, so whats a 10% heal gonna do? What if it applied the bubble to your fellowship and if *your* bubble didnt expire, it healed the entire fellowship for 10%? Just an idea. I still wouldn't be giving up redirect to trait for it though.


    The guardian has done well in raids in the past with a lack of group utility. Maybe it could go for some buffing to this regard but I do not want it to just become cappy2.0. I see guard as earning raid spots and dominating the tank spot because they are just so bloody strong in themselves. They will do the best, hands down, at taking the directed damage in a fight. I think one reason we see alot of requests for guard group utility to increase in terms of healing/defense is because of content design. Guard as main tank + cappy buffing it has been the way to go for a long time, but cappy has moved on into the main tank role now because all of the guard strengths are kinda garbage now with our content and lack of things scaling properly (Im looking at YOU avoidance essences!)

    Lets not forget guardians have
    -An effective 20s cd FM
    -The only unavoidable interrupt skill in the game on a mere 10s cd
    -2 more additional interrupts on top of that, 1 aoe and 1 single target, and both of them stuns BUT ALSO not requiring the stun to do the interrupt (something like a champ horn wont interrupt a SI unit)
    -Warchant for -5% outgoing damage debuff (this is something I could see being upgraded for more group utility)
    -10s long 35% damage reduction and reflection on an effective 20s cd (yes I know it requires a parry response to get to, but if we could actually parry attacks in a raid, maybe it would be more readily available to us, snark intended)
    Its quite a sexy list for some utility. It just isnt the utlity people want these days. They just want the group wide damage reduction and healing that a cappy can do so easily, and rightfully so, thats what content is designed for right now it seems. Do Skorgrim in Black Lore T3 with a captain, then run it with the same group comp but with a guard/no cappy. Its a night and day difference. All my interrupting aint gonna help. Same can be said for AM.

    I got some of my own recommendation for base stat changes in the "for dev" section on my guardian guide if any yall want to check that out. Would like to see vitality going back to 5 morale per vit. It got nerfed when all morale stuff got nerfed to "encourage more diverse builds" yet the class that stacks morale (cappy) did not get its vitality contribution nerfed if i recall correctly.

    Content and broader stat changes are atleast half of the puzzle for bringing guard's back to the light, lets not forget that

    Thats all I got for now, cheers!
    Lvl 130 Guard - Olebenny || Lvl 130 Guard - Theoderad || Lvl 130 Guard - Estelrian || Lvl 130 Captain - Galtherium || Lvl 130 Runekeeper - Leegun || Lvl 130 Mini - Nathorean || Lvl 130 Champion - Cephrial
    Leader of Raiders Beneath the Shadow - Arkenstone
    What more does one need in LotRO than a lot of morale and a shield?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Olebenny View Post
    Lets not forget guardians have
    Add to that list, that Guardians have by far the most overpowered effect removal skill in game.

  5. #5
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    BLUE GUARDIAN SUGGESTIONS/CHANGES



    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    1. Traits that need to be replaced or changed entirely: ''Adaptability'' ''Disorientation'' ''Break Ranks''
    1. Adaptability, so this trait does not necesarily have to be replaced but i got the following suggestions:

    -It should NOT be cashed out by using a response skill except for Shield-Smash. + Increase the Block and Parry rating DRAMATICALLY. I still think it kinda sucks tho maybe make it a Block/Parry % buff instead of rating. The whole cashing out system with defensives is already quite stupid. I would prefer for it to just be replaced kek.

    -Replace it with a flat passive BP increase or something
    -Replace it for a passive -5/10% inc dmg bonus
    -replace it with any defensive something with Incoming healing might be interesting
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    2. Disorientation, honestly no one needs a -5% bpe on a mob as debuff. It's totally useless. Change this to be a +5/10% inc dmg debuff instead. OR a vitality trait.
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    3. Break Ranks, Probably the worst capstone in lotro if im not missing something. Cashing out your fortifications everytime you use shield-smash is just so stupid and counterproductive. Not only that but it's also only a self buff.... I got a couple of suggestions for it:

    -Make it a skill, using the skill will cash out all fortifications to give a RAID WIDE dmg buff.

    -Honestly no other change can fix this horrible trait. Cashing out your fortifications everytime you use a certain skill is just the worst design ever. Make Break Ranks a skill of its own

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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    2. Traits or skills that need to be buffed: ''Shield Wall'' ''Litanny of Defiance'' ''Stoic'' ''Guardians ward tactics'' ''Guardians ward'' ''Shield-Taunt'' ''Stagger''
    1. Shield Wall: This skill is pretty horrible cause it's just a suicide machine. Pls change this skill so you take less dmg. Exactly how the Abyss set works or a Beorning's mitigated Sacrifice. Having a passive 33% of the dmg mitigated would already be a good improvement.
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    2. Litanny of Defiance! This is the ultimate suicide button. Guardian's got almost nothing to save themselves if the group starts taking big hits. I got the same ''fix'' as shield wall in mind for litanny tho. Just mitigate a portion of the dmg so guardians can actually use it for once. Something like: The guardian takes 50% of the fellowships dmg BUT 20% of it will be mitigated or something.
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    3. Stoic, Having to spend 5 points just for a guaranteed bubble on warriors heart is way too much, maybe make the bubble a guaranteed on 1 point and each additional point will increase the bubble's potency. AND/OR make the bubble Group/raid wide on the final trait point.
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    4. Guardian's ward and Guardian's ward tactics, the ratings for these are a bit on the low side, a slight buff to them would be great. After that i would like to see Guardian's Ward's duration increased from 10s > 15/20s. You have to spam it way too much to keep it up.
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    5. Shield-Taunt, this skill generates too little aggro, Increase the amount of targets and increase the additional Threat gotten from it greatly. You could also turn this skill into a utility skill by giving the affected mobs a small mitigation debuff or an actual taunt skill.
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    6. Stagger, Stagger has a great idea to it, just the wrong execution. Make it so that the Stagger debuff gets aplied whenever you hit a mob with it. Not only from behind or on a crit. Blue guardians can't just hit a mob from behind or crit them unless the mob is tanked by someone else. Also giving it a slight dmg debuff to the mob would be nice aswell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    4. Blue Guardian has literally zero group/raid utility
    As stated above giving certain skills and traits a raid wide dmg buff or mob debuffs would be a great way of improving guardian utility.
    The raid wide fortification buff should be increased too (2%>5%)

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    5. Guardians got very weak passive BPE. Guardians are not meant to be a BPE tank cause that's warden's job but guardian still gets beaten by all tank classes BPE wise.
    I definitely want to see guardian's passive BPE increased slightly. You cannot trait the red line parry in blue for example unless you sacrifice some blue cap stone stuff or some yellow redirect. I would like to see a +5% parry or an additional 5% block added to one of the blue traits.
    Last edited by HolyDuckTape; Jun 19 2020 at 11:57 PM.

  6. #6
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    YELLOW LINE SUGGESTIONS/CHANGES


    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    1. Run speed debuffs are pretty much useless now, replace this
    Replace this with a new debuff: Incoming dmg OR just increase all the other debuffs like Miss chance and Outgoing dmg.

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    2. Traits that need to be replaced or changed entirely: ''Insult to Injury'' ''Manifested Ire''
    1. Insult to injury is very useless. The chance is too low and any debuff cast on a mob and spread will be permanent. If the debuff hits an unmarked mob or if a weaker version gets spread to a marked mob then the debuff will dissapear before you can even refresh the debuff to begin with, so it's just useless.

    Replace this with a trait that increases the amount of permanent debuffs of the same debuff a mob can have,

    for example you trait 1 point in it to get +1 perma debuff which would mean a mob would now be able to get -10% warchant TWICE permanently. Obviously decrease this trait to max out at 3 points instead of 5. This would greatly buff yellow guard and they will actually be able to do their job of being a debuff-tank.

    But do keep in mind to remove run speed altogether and/or reduce it's value together with stagger attack duration so it doesn't get OP with a -150% run speed for example.
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    2. Manifested Ire, this is the worst set trait i have ever seen, replace this with anything really. I don't really have a good suggestion for it but i guess change it a -x% outgoing dmg debuff on any mob who changes aggro target.

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    3. Traits that need to be buffed: ''Protection'' ''Cataclysmic Shout'' ''Singular Focus'' ''Radiate''
    1. Protection, This is quite a weak skill, i really like the +5% mitigation that the remmorchant set gives. I think this should be the standard version of the skill tho. Double the BPE rating it gives and make it give +2,5-5% mitigation to the applied target. OR Make it a raid wide BPE buff and double the BPE rating.
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    2. Cataclysmic Shout First off, the cooldown is ridiculous. Change the cd from (3m > 1m) after that make it always proc the Fighter Of Shadow heal. After that it should actually do what the description says it ''does''. Copy the debuffs of the target and spread it to 5 nearby mobs. (And ofcourse have a sexy stun)
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    3. Singular Focus First off, this skill used to be better than a Champions rend but it was ignored during the debuff/buff rating scaling update. So now it's still unscaled and very weak. Scale this up and then remove the CD from this completely.

    Maybe even make it so that it applies to any target hit with a parry response skill instead of a parry response crit, this will greatly help yellow guard tanks to proc this more often and not purely rely on tenderize.

    (i know its bugged and does not have a cd atm, but pls dont add the cd it will ruin the whole trait)
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    4. Radiate Increase the amount of targets radiate spreads debuffs to and give unmarked mobs priority for mark spreading. Otherwise you get into situations where you have so many mobs that radiate literally doesn't spread the mark to any of the mobs at all unless you can split the group of mobs into a smaller group.

    And having to start all over again with mark spreading after a few of the mobs in the group are killed is also very meh for a lazy guard.

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    5. Radiate does not seem to spread debuffs that much and if it does it only caps out at 1 or 2 spreads max if lucky. So the debuffing in general is quite weak.
    This is also a big issue with radiate, a lot of the time u might be fighting a group of 5 marked mobs and u just spam every AoE skill u have, and none of the debuffs really get spread and other times it does get spread a bit but never more than twice at a time. (I'm talking about the debuffs that run out and are not permanent that get spread from the permanent debuff)

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    6. Flash of light does too much dmg on lower levels, but too little dmg on cap level. It does generate a bit too much aggro tho even to the point of never needing a taunt when fighting 5-6 ish mobs.

    Back when changes were made in 120 i really liked flash of light when it was at 10k, i would say 7,5-10k would have been great but it got reduced to 5k, honestly way too low. Now at lv 130 it is 7-8-9k depending on tier/mits of the mob ofcourse. 10k+ on mobs with a weakness to light (orcs). I would say at 130 Flash of light should be somwehere around 15k-25k to give it any noticeable damage without buffing dps geared yellow guards too much.
    Fix the level scaling of flash of light so it's not OP at lower levels and then buff flash of light in the higher levels cause it is way too low there. An increase of 50-150% at cap level would actually make it a noticeable.(15k-25k) No idea what i would do with the aggro part of it tho, it's pretty OP aggro atm so you can nerf that part of it ofcourse but it does give yellow line a much needed advantage over blue line.

  7. #7
    A suggestion for making BPE more relevant for tankbusters:

    Keep tankbusters as a mechanic on bosses, but make them both affected by BPE & also multi-hit attacks.

    Instead of singular 500k hits (or whatever they are for the specific content) make it a 5 part hit which each rolls BPE seperately.
    i.e. Guard gets hit by 5 hits, 1 Blocked, 1 partial parry and 3 normal hits for something around 380k instead of the 500k of a single lump tankbuster.
    Still dangerous, but more affected by your defensive stats making your gearing feel more relevant.

  8. #8
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    BASIC GUARDIAN SUGGESTIONS/CHANGES

    This is a quick copy from another thread of mine: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...balancing-ever

    Guard changes:
    -Reduce challenge cd (60s > 45s)
    -Increase fortification raid buff (2% > 5%)
    -Change vitality back (4,8 >5)
    -Add critical rating to Might and/or Tactical mitigation per Vitality point. This makes a lot of sense cause guards are kinda meant to crit with shield skills and mit tank
    -Preferably add some kinda -inc dmg % to guards as a passive like 5-10% or increase fortifications (2% >3%) i am more in favour of inc dmg tho so mits dont go too high and might reach a 100% point

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrplaneswalker View Post
    A suggestion for making BPE more relevant for tankbusters:

    Keep tankbusters as a mechanic on bosses, but make them both affected by BPE & also multi-hit attacks.

    Instead of singular 500k hits (or whatever they are for the specific content) make it a 5 part hit which each rolls BPE seperately.
    i.e. Guard gets hit by 5 hits, 1 Blocked, 1 partial parry and 3 normal hits for something around 380k instead of the 500k of a single lump tankbuster.
    Still dangerous, but more affected by your defensive stats making your gearing feel more relevant.
    This sounds like a great idea, they definitely know how to put this in the game as they already made the 2nd boss of Bar Nirnaeth have a single huge attack be a 2 or 3 part hit. Unfortunately they haven't added any BPE to it but it sounds very great to have this for future tankbusters.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olebenny View Post
    The guardian has done well in raids in the past with a lack of group utility. Maybe it could go for some buffing to this regard but I do not want it to just become cappy2.0. I see guard as earning raid spots and dominating the tank spot because they are just so bloody strong in themselves. They will do the best, hands down, at taking the directed damage in a fight. I think one reason we see alot of requests for guard group utility to increase in terms of healing/defense is because of content design. Guard as main tank + cappy buffing it has been the way to go for a long time, but cappy has moved on into the main tank role now because all of the guard strengths are kinda garbage now with our content and lack of things scaling properly (Im looking at YOU avoidance essences!)
    Very true, content messed up guards big time. I really hope they will change the content soon enough to support all tanks and not only captain. I still do think there is a bit of a lack of utility for guards. Back in the past guards were by far the tankiest out of all so the utility indeed didn't matter but now after guards being abandoned for so long, other tanks have actually caught up a bit survivability wise. Guard doesn't have that crazy of an advantage on that field anymore. It might even be so bad that beornings will soon take their spot cause of the extra utility.

    Especially with other tanks needing buffs soon guardian will be getting some tough competition. Preferably they just make it so you can use 2 of any tank instead of a cappy tank + main tank. That would atleast increase the changes of every tank to play. They should also make the survivability gap bigger between guard vs other tanks cause if you see a warden with 70% mitigation on lv130 then that's quite yikes lol. Ofcourse wardens still need to get their buffs and they are quite horrible atm but for the future: I don't like the looks of that!

  11. #11
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    Lightbulb

    I really want to see more utility for guards but i don't think we got the trait points for it honestly, my guard seems to be build quite perfectly atm and removing anything would feel very off. I guess we have to just buff the most used stuff and we should indeed buff the survivability a lot more because other classes got literally the same mits but with more morale lol.

    I really want to see the 3% fortification each tier and especially the 5% raid wide mit. I would even push it up to 7,5 or 10%

    Make the duration of litanny of defiance longer, mitigate some of the dmg taken and give the people affected by it an additional 10% mitigation.
    Same with shield wall, give the target 10% mitigation and mitigate some of the dmg taken.

    What i really want to see tho is for Guardian's ward to give actual buffs/debuffs depending on Trait Line. Also increase it's duration to 20 seconds just like the unimbued version does. Guardians are meant to be using other skills all the time and having to refresh guardians ward so often is rather annoying and is just blocking the rotation imo.
    Blue: -10% inc dmg
    Yellow: +10% incoming healing
    Red: +5% crit chance (kinda like wild attack)

    And also increase the targets on Challenge by 2 or slightly more. Guardians are meant to be AoE main tanks but their AoE taunt can't even grab that many mobs, especially in yellow line. Would also be up for a slight cd reduction.

    I also got the solution to Break Ranks if you cannot turn it into a skill: Make it NOT cashout your fortifications OR only 1 tier everytime you use Shield Smash, Everytime you use shield- smash it gives a raid wide dmg buff. But it being a skill would make most sense and would work best.

    And the final change i want to see is a big buff to flash of light and just a whole rework on how yellow line works, i want it to be an actual debuffing tank like it's supposed to be. Yellow guards already suffer from only having 60% mits, the lowest of all tanks. Make the debuffs actually counter that, which they don't atm.

  12. #12
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    Wishnotes

    Disclaimer
    Not all of these should be considered at the same time, but are rather general notes on what's not right and what needs adjusting, followed by suggestions.

    General
    • Catch a Breath bug
      • If you have a parry response ready to use Catch a Breath, it will prevent you from using it, as the skill is apparently on cooldown. This means that you cannot reliably gain healing from a parry response.
      • Check the code for Demoralizing Anthem, as it seems to be the culprit there
    • Greatly reduce BPE caps requirement
    • Guardians Ward Parry, Block and Tactical Mitigation need a boost
    • Force Opening grants a Parry Response regardless if the skill hits, misses, gets deflected or BPE'd. Shield Blow does not.
    • Gain Critical Rating from Might or add Tactical Mitigation to Vitality. Guardian currently has the worst stat distribution gain in the game.


    BLUE LINE

    • Replace Adaptability with a Finesse buff
      • Adaptability is frankly useless, whereas getting good amount of finesse on gear, especially early on, cannot be done easily.
    • Shield-Smash AOE is based on the frontal arc of the enemy hit rather than the usual norm for AOE skills
    • Replace Disorientation with either:
      • Vitality trait
      • A mitigation debuff on the target
    • Reduce Stoic from 6 to 5 points, keep the same benefits.
    • Give Juggernaut a flat 25% damage reduction during it.
    • Make Break Ranks an active skill that cashes out Fortifications for a raid-wide damage buff.
    • Increase group-wide Fortification buff from 2% to 5% when Guardian is at max stacks.
    • Litany of Defiance gives Guardian a buff causing them to only take half of all the mitigated damage


    RED LINE

    • The only trait tree without a specialization bonus. Suggestions:
      • Bleeds bypass mitigations by 10%
      • 5% Critical Chance
      • Sting grants Parry Response on a crit
    • Change Thrill of Battle, it's by far the worst heal in the game
      • Similar to blue, have Guardians Ward place a damage buff when traiting this. Mastery, Critical Rating or damage is fine. This would promote the trait in a rotation.
    • Increase Brutal Assault base damage and:
      • Rescale Haemorrhage to have 4 tiers. Chance to Bleed 25/50/75/100% and Bleed damage 5/10/15/20%.
    • Rescale Deeper Wounds to 4 tiers: Bleed Pulses 1/2/2/3 and damage 5/10/15/20%.
    • Increase To The King base damage
      • Fix Blind Rage description
        • Currently says it gives a chance for TTK to give a parry response, when it actually gives a damage/attack speed buff.
        • Rescale Blind Rage damage buff proc chance to 25/50/75/100%
    • Hammer Down:
      • Reduce cooldown to 20 seconds
      • Remove the stun aspect of the skill
      • Always crits on low morale enemies (35% threshold)
    • Honourable Combat rework:
      • Critical Hits on an enemy restore 2% max morale and 5% max power. Internal cooldown of 5 seconds.
      • [i]This would make it a good sustain skill for when needed while being completely optional
    • Reactive Parry rework:
      • Sting critical gives Parry Response
      • Increased damage for Parry Response Skills
      • Parry Response skills critical/devastate chance
    • Protection by the Sword:
      • Increase the AOE from 10 to 15-20 meters. It's way too slow right now.
      • Change the passive to be an aura rather than a 10s CD pulse. Increase the melee damage bonus from 2 to 5%.
      • Have it give Parry in addition to the damage buff
      • Clean up the description, as the trait tree one says it gives mastery and parry, while on the skill itself it just gives melee damage
    • Give Bleed Them Dry a 10% bleed damage buff
    • Heavy Blows damage from 5 to 10%
    • Prey On The Weak:
      • Increase damage greatly
      • Gives all Bleeds extra critical magnitude
      • Gives all Bleeds extra critical chance
      • Bleeds bypass additional Mitigatins
      • Adds initial damage burst when a bleed is applied


    YELLOW LINE
    • Flash of Light can only be proc'd once.
    • Flash of Light damage increase.
    • Flash of Light cooldown decrease to 3 seconds from 5
    • Remove Insult to Injury, replace with Might trait
    • Marked By Light no longer affected by Radiate
    • Increase Radiate chance to 50%
    • War-Chant damage debuff increase to 10% base
    • Warriors Fortitude Incoming Healing should properly scale
    • Cataclysmic Shout:
      • Cooldown decreased to 1 minute
      • Stun on marked enemy reduced from 6 to 4 seconds.
      • Stun on AOE enemies increased from 3 to 4 seconds.
      • No longer does extra damage to marked enemies (not sure if that ever worked)
      • Increased and evened out damage for everything hit.
    • Singular Focus:
      • Description is all wrong. It applies an armour debuff to all enemies if a parry response skill crits. If you crit one enemy with Whirling Retaliation, up to all 5 can get the debuff. No internal cooldown.
      • Increase the Armour reduction debuff greatly
      • Have it be affected by Radiate.
    • Disabling Strikes doesn't apply to Stagger/Engage movement slows
    • Protection applies to both Guardian and the target
    • Manifested Ire rework:
      • Reduces War-chant cooldown by 2-3 seconds
      • Reduces incoming damage for taunted enemies by 5%
      • Increases Flash of Light damage
    • Incapacitation:
      • No longer affects Stagger/Engage movement slows

    Disclaimer
    Not all of these should be considered at the same time, but are rather general notes on what's not right and what needs adjusting, followed by suggestions.
    Last edited by zaboch; Jun 20 2020 at 07:00 AM.

  13. #13
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    You forget one important line: nerf captains and beornings (they already start doing that)

  14. #14
    @Vastin, please clean up your radar!

  15. #15
    All great ideas above. One more item to help make Guardians what they used to be which was true hard to kill tanks - Heavy Shields should apply their entire armour value to Tac Mit not just 20%. One simple fix that buffs Guards without complex skill rewriting.

  16. #16
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    Loads of fantastic ideas here, thanks for putting the time and effort into making such a thorough and detailed post!

    Don't think it's been mentioned so far so I'll just throw in shield use rank which has been useless for... around two years now I think? Lots of suggestions in the linked thread for what to replace it with, personally I think finesse would be nice as it's beneficial to both DPS and tanking guards.

    And as always, please buff guardians before considering a nerf to other tanks, not the other way round.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    So first off it's nice that guardians are finally getting some attention again after a few years. Thanks for the upcoming update.
    But the big problem is that guardians need a ton of changes, let's just hope that this update will fix a ton and won't just be a small update to fix a few things and then abandon guardians for 2-3+ years again.

    I'll list the general problems guards are having at endgame/cap level content in this thread just to help out mapping out the big issues. I'm not the best list maker so sorry for this kek! I will also be making more detailed lists with suggestions/changes most guardians need to dig their way out of the grave again. Feel free to add anything you want to any guard reading this thread.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    GENERAL ISSUES:

    1. BPE is and has been irrelevant for quite a few level caps already. With level 130 being the worst expansion ever so far for BPE tanking. It has gotten to the point of Juggernaut and Guardian's pledge not even doing anything anymore in this content cause there is almost nothing to BPE. Everything just goes right through.
    I just want to provide a concrete example of this. In Wells, there is a haunted cottage (at a dead end, haha, very funny, I got the joke). They put a dot on you that looks like what I call the "dirty eyeball" from Erebor instnaces and must be instantly removed or interrupted. They can mass on you 5-7 at a time and add quickly even if you're careful because they wander fast. Several can be casting at once. They are landscape, not even an instance, not even a cave or interior location. They recast quickly. I realize it's probably tactical, but as noted, tactical mit is nhard to cap and when you're questing, ti's not likely to be even halfway to cap.

    The Juggernaut skill does nothing against this dot. It can bring my guardian down to 10% if I can't react to it in about 1-2 seconds, or if what I do misfires. Then if I am out of self heal and/or potions, I'm dead. So far I havent found a quest that takes me to that location yet. I hope I have better gear when I am sent there.

    I know there are experts at this class with better gear and better skills than me. But this is landscape/questing. Not even talking about instance/grind/reward.

    Maybe those mobs don't do any physical damage, and they should. Or maybe that dot should be 1/2 physical so the skill can have some effect? My virtues are pretty decent, in the 60s, I could work on those I'm not using, but they're not awful or anything. There's no reason why I should be that vulnerable to tactical from landscape ghosts.

  18. #18
    RE Flash of Light, please leave the aggro alone. It's perfect as it is...Yellow Guard is tank (self heals) + AoE, after all. Reducing aggro would make it much harder to landscape when rounding up mobs.

    I would say reduce the FoL dmg at lvls 1-40 by 20% at most (any more nerf than that will make it too weak at early levels when landscaping/questing). better yet, just don't nerf FoL at any lvl.

    After lvl 40 (well 45), mobs jump very quickly in morale, especially in Angmar from lvl 48 to 51 and in Moria from lvl 55 to lvl 58 as an e.g. (straight from 5,000 morale to 7,000 in a few lvls). Basically, the more the local landscape mobs jump in health at that level (say, @ lvl 48 to 51), the more the FoL mark dmg should jump accordingly with the mob morale between those levels, depending on the lvl of the yellow guard himself. That would be good scaling. Between lvl 55 and lvl 60, increase the FoL dmg by 50%.

    Especially after lvl 60 (i.e. Mirkwood), the FoL dmg should be increased by 100% at least. It only does a pitiful 750 dmg to mobs with 9 K morale as it currently stands...and only 1.1 K dmg @ lvl 88 where mobs have 17+ K morale!
    Last edited by Hallsae; Jun 21 2020 at 10:54 PM.

  19. #19
    Everything wrong with Guardians:
    BPE defensive cooldowns don't work against many mechanics
    could use a little more health (all the other tanks have more)
    Guard tanks are like RK healers in the sense that there's no reason to take them over another tank because they don't support your groups damage in any way
    CAPTAIN IS EFFING BROKEN

    otherwise, Guards are fine. They are about as strong as Bears and stronger than Warden/Champs (who both could use some buffs).
    If the BPE cooldowns are made more useful and we see less quasi oneshot "mechanics" than the only real changes that need to be done is give Guards a unique support skill (like bee swarm on bears or minstrel anthems or warden javelins etc.) and nerf Captains

    Guards are already tied for 2nd best tank behind the super broken Captain

  20. #20
    In regards to Yellow Guardian:

    I'll start with the capstones.
    Singular Focus requires a critical hit with a parry response skill (only 3 such skill available) in order to proc so its chance of applying is somewhere in the lines of hardly ever. Endgame tanks dont have the stats to support a crit based effect what with having to slot vitality just to keep up with captains moral pools or tact mit due to the poor stat slice distribution of that stat post U25ish. In addition to being a very small chance to proc, the effect itself is only a 2-3.5% mitigation reduction. This effect can not be refreshed or spread thus making the uptime neglegible. Compaired to the red Captain capstone Elite Compainions which is only a 1% mitigation debuff but can be maintained ~100% uptime Singular Focus is a waste. Please change this effect to an incoming damage debuff (5-10%), and make it a 25% chance to be applied on parry skill.
    Cataclysmic Shout is a great skill, but the cooldown is too long. it makes it so that its not a reliable cooldown beyond boss fights. reduced the cooldown to 60-90s.


    I also want to point out something and this compare yellow vs blue guards. That is that while debuffs (except Singular Focus) are made permanent on Marked by Light targets, war chant can actually be doubled up with by then removing the mark so that one guardian can maintain a -10% damage debuff and a -7.5% damage debuffs. In a group with another guardian (blue line) this can add an additional third War Chant since blue line only supports a -5% damage debuff. While this sounds like a bug, I actually like this as a feature and it really makes the subclass feel like a debuff tank. Where the issue lies is that Yellow guardians don't have access to Fortification (+10% mitigations, +2% mitigations to raid). Lets compare:

    Ill break this down with a theoretical boss attack that deals 1,000,000 damage. All instances assume that the tank in question has capped mitigation via ratings and no other classes debuffs are included.

    Blue line, 70% mitigations and -5% war chant: due to the -5% damage debuff from war chant the attack is reduced to 950k, then with the 70% mits the final damage received equals 285,000.

    Yellow line, 60% mitigations and a single -10% war chant: the debuffed attack is reduced to 900k, but the lower mitigations means that the guard receives 360,000 damage

    Yellow Line, 60% mitigations and using the multiple war chant method: the debuffed attack is now reduced to 825k due to the diminishing return of multiple debuffs, and then after mitigations the guardian receives 330,000 damage.

    As you can see, the debuff amount of warchant is under powered compared to the raw mitigations of fortification, and this is in the optimal setup where other classes debuffs arent pushing the diminishing returns to near obscurity. Now lets look at a combo setting, a blue guardian and a yellow guardian offtank.

    Blue Line 70% mitigations and -5% war chant, Yellow Line, 62% mitigations and using the multiple war chant method: the debuffed attack is now dealing only 775k, and the blue guard is only taking 235,500 damage while the yellow guard takes 294,500 damage.

    One method of fixing this disparity would be make Protection effect the whole raid just like Fortifications, make it give 1-2% mitigations passively while the set bonus increases it to 4-5%, and make the yellow guardian receive the benefit of the effect as well.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
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    577
    Have seen some great suggestions pop up!

    All other classes got relatively small updates to be honest, average-small updates but they were not so broken and it fixed em up very well (rip stonebois). Hunter was quite big recently but guards will need an even bigger update than hunters. Guards atm are by far much more broken than hunters were before their buff.

    Let's hope we can actually get a big update going and not a small one, it will take some time but guards really need some time put into them to make them useful again. Just a small update with a few tiny tweaks won't change anything about guards at current endgame. It will really need a big rework. The redline scaling will be quite simple but after that a ton of blue/red/yellow traits will need changes and skills will need changes etc. It will be a monster of a job to do but i would be willing to wait for it, i've already been waiting for 3+ years! I think my patience can easily hold a couple of months extra kek.

    Hopefully Vastin/SSG can get it out before gundabad hits tho, preferably before the Fall raid but we'll see!

  22. #22

    Great Suggestions to fix Guardians

    Quote Originally Posted by Morellian View Post
    And as always, please buff guardians before considering a nerf to other tanks, not the other way round.
    Definately, start with fixing guards before any nerfing.
    Remember that nerfing classes leads to rage quitting of large segments of the playerbase.

    I agree with all the suggestions from the OP.

    The most essential changes are:
    1. Add a morale trait to the blue-line trait tree, like captains have that boosts morale by 1/3.
    2. Raise BPE cap back up to 18%.
    3. Lower BPE stat caps so the relatively small numbers found on gear and essence becomes useful.
    4. Lower the tact mit stat cap.
    5. Increase the tact mit effect from armor/shield to be the same as phys mit.
    6. Change most/all of the big hits from end game bosses so that they can be blocked.
    7. Buff damage/bleeds in red line at 130.
    8. Add a large amount of finesse to the belt or the blue trait tree, as we don't have enough slots for it, and it's such an essential stat (eg. to make war chant actually useful, etc)

    I look forward to seeing these changes implemented.
    It will lead to a more enjoyable end-game and thriving end-game community.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    The most essential changes are:
    1. Add a morale trait to the blue-line trait tree, like captains have that boosts morale by 1/3.

    Absolutely not. This is beyond broken and Guardian doesn't need it. We have mitigations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    2. Raise BPE cap back up to 18%.
    Caps were never 18%. They were 25%. And this change shouldn't happen due to how partials work now. Also, Vastin wants to make BPE relevant again so we'll see what he does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    3. Lower BPE stat caps so the relatively small numbers found on gear and essence becomes useful.
    Essences are the only issue here, they need revising. Gear-wise, numbers are fine, it's just that BPE gear always gets puts under morale/mitigations, where priorities have always been.
    Only way to remedy this would be to change the gear-stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    4. Lower the tact mit stat cap.
    And phys cap should go up in turn. It's far too easy to get high physical mitigation on any class right now from armour rating alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    5. Increase the tact mit effect from armor/shield to be the same as phys mit.
    ...what? Why? Shields are really good already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    6. Change most/all of the big hits from end game bosses so that they can be blocked.
    Agreed on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    7. Buff damage/bleeds in red line at 130.
    No, base damage is completely fine. Guardian's issues are terrible traits, not the current damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy View Post
    8. Add a large amount of finesse to the belt or the blue trait tree, as we don't have enough slots for it, and it's such an essential stat (eg. to make war chant actually useful, etc)
    Again, no. If anything should be on the belt, it should be base damage for all skills. You can get more than enough finesse on the gear currently, and even I am sitting with close to 200k on my Guardian with 720k morale when fully buffed.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by zaboch View Post

    "The most essential changes are:
    1. Add a morale trait to the blue-line trait tree, like captains have that boosts morale by 1/3."

    Absolutely not. This is beyond broken and Guardian doesn't need it. We have mitigations.
    The game currently favors morale stacking, with huge, unblockable hits.
    If you think 5% extra mits is equal to 33% extra morale, you are mistaken.
    That's one reason people ask exclusively for cappy tanks on LFF.

    The fact that guardians are not capable of tanking the same difficulty instances that cappies are, indicates that it's guardians that are broken,
    while cappies are in a good spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaboch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy
    "3. Lower BPE stat caps so the relatively small numbers found on gear and essence becomes useful."

    Essences are the only issue here, they need revising. Gear-wise, numbers are fine, it's just that BPE gear always gets puts under morale/mitigations, where priorities have always been.
    Only way to remedy this would be to change the gear-stats.
    It would be far simpler to change one number - the stat cap - which will nicely lower the progression curve, than to alter every piece of gear, every essence, and every other item that adds block parry and evade, such as relics, traits, etc.



    Quote Originally Posted by zaboch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy
    "4. Lower the tact mit stat cap."
    And phys cap should go up in turn. It's far too easy to get high physical mitigation on any class right now from armour rating alone.
    Tanks are expected to cap their mits, so they should easily cap their phys mit.
    Guards are spending nearly all their essence slots on tactical mitigation, to plug a hole that shouldn't exist.

    By lowering the tact mit stat cap, it would free up essence slots to be used for other more interesting stats.


    Quote Originally Posted by zaboch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy
    "5. Increase the tact mit effect from armor/shield to be the same as phys mit."
    ...what? Why? Shields are really good already.
    Seems you've missed the problem with low tact mit.
    With full raid armor, Guards shouldn't have a big hole in their tact mit.
    If armor gave the same mitigations to phys mit as tact mit, we wouldn't have that problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaboch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfy
    "7. Buff damage/bleeds in red line at 130."
    No, base damage is completely fine. Guardian's issues are terrible traits, not the current damage.
    As the OP stated, base damage and bleeds have not scaled up properly from 115 to 130.
    Questing on guard takes ages compared to other classes now.
    I wouldn't mind improving some traits also, but that would require more complex work and could easily get screwed up.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaboch View Post
    If anything should be on the belt, it should be base damage for all skills.
    But you said base damage was fine?
    Base damage should be scaled up properly, in line with other classes, and we shouldn't waste a special spot on our belt in order to fix this fundamental part of the game.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    4. It has horrible crit chance even tho it is quite dependent on it. It is the only DPS class in the game that can't hit an unbuffed 30% crit chance. Guards can't even reach it while self buffed... It has a whopping 25-27% crit chance. All other classes are on average in the 30-40% crit chance zone.
    Just because I'm a stickler for correct facts, this is untrue, LMs also have no +5% Crit Chance trait, and are equally stuck on 25% as Guardians are.

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    5. Guardians got very weak passive BPE. Guardians are not meant to be a BPE tank cause that's warden's job but guardian still gets beaten by all tank classes BPE wise.
    -Captain: big amount of BP from rating
    -Guardian: An average amount of parry from rating and a huge amount of block from rating.
    I don't understand the point of differentiating the ratings gained by stats between the heavy classes, they literally, ALL get the same amount of BP from stats (Whilst I agree individual trait line bonuses are differentiated per class), raw BP ratings from stats is the same for all heavies, so, to go from saying Captains get a "Big" amount of BP from rating to Guardians only get an "Average" amount of Parry ...?

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDuckTape View Post
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    2. Litanny of Defiance! This is the ultimate suicide button. Guardian's got almost nothing to save themselves if the group starts taking big hits. I got the same ''fix'' as shield wall in mind for litany tho. Just mitigate a portion of the dmg so guardians can actually use it for once. Something like: The guardian takes 50% of the fellowships' dmg BUT 20% of it will be mitigated or something.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I suggested in the other thread but I think the Guardian should be able to mitigate the damage based on their current stack of fortification i.e. one stack = 10% mitigation, two stacks = 20% mitigation etc. etc. so at max stacks, you are redirecting 50% of the fellowships' damage and mitigating 50% of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrplaneswalker View Post
    A suggestion for making BPE more relevant for tankbusters:

    Keep tankbusters as a mechanic on bosses, but make them both affected by BPE & also multi-hit attacks.

    Instead of singular 500k hits (or whatever they are for the specific content) make it a 5 part hit which each rolls BPE separately.
    i.e. Guard gets hit by 5 hits, 1 Blocked, 1 partial parry and 3 normal hits for something around 380k instead of the 500k of a single lump tankbuster.
    Still dangerous, but more affected by your defensive stats making your gearing feel more relevant.
    This is actually a VERY GOOD suggestion something I think should definitely be considered, not only will it make just going for vitality/morale less of a clear-cut choice, but it will also make BPE mean something, similarly too many mobs/bosses have attacks or skills that cannot be BPE'd which screw over all tanks, but Guardians most of all.
    Last edited by Hephburz-2; Jun 25 2020 at 12:21 AM.

 

 
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