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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Burn Hot Damage Increase

    Can anyone explain to me how the Burn Hot damage increase is applied?

    My Burn Hot tool tip says +74.8% Ranged damage. Heart Seeker before Burn Hot says 88K - 123K damage. After Burn Hot the figures are 110K - 153K which is at best +25% damage.

    The same increase seems to apply to other shots.
    Casual Wanderers - Crickhollow Not So Serious - Evernight

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by NacMac View Post
    Can anyone explain to me how the Burn Hot damage increase is applied?

    My Burn Hot tool tip says +74.8% Ranged damage. Heart Seeker before Burn Hot says 88K - 123K damage. After Burn Hot the figures are 110K - 153K which is at best +25% damage.

    The same increase seems to apply to other shots.
    It work just like most (if not all) % damage buffs in the game, it adds the % buff on top of your mastery. So if you are red line mastery capped hunter (215%) it will make it 289.8% instead.
    Captain-General Narthrivor r15 Hunter - r12 Warden - r12 Champion - r7 Captain - r6 Guardian - Phoenix Legion and Innocent raid alliance - Laurelin EN-RP

  3. #3
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    OK now I understand - just checked - it increased my %PM by 75

    It was the tool tip that confused me ... +75% Ranged Damage - which implies that it increases ranged damage by 75%, when in fact it adds 75 to your current %PM rating, not current rating + 75% of your current rating

    I suppose it's all about semantics.
    Casual Wanderers - Crickhollow Not So Serious - Evernight

  4. #4

    Follow up Math question

    Howdy. So I'm a Red-line Hunter, with splashes into Yellow for Mits + I picked up Rain of Thorns for another nice AOE. I mostly solo, and get by without too many problems.
    BUT. Got invited to Remmorchant raid. I did alright, but was criticized for running in Strength Stance and for not having the Precision Stance Crit Mag Legacy.
    I'm replying to this thread because I think I did the math wrong as well.

    PSCM = +44% // Strength Stance Damage = +15% with LI legacy.

    My ranged Crit rating is only 24% (used to be way lower, which is why I focused on straight damage buffs). And I use the Pen Shot Crit Debuff thingy ALL the time, so I usually have an effective ranged crit rating of 34%, if I understand the skill correctly.

    Well, I used to think 33% (crit chance) x 44% (Crit Multiplier) = +14.5% overall damage bonus. ==> slightly less than my +15% Strength Stance Bonus...

    Are crit damage bonuses added differently? Are my assumptions way off?
    Last edited by MagicVoice; Jun 15 2020 at 10:30 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by MagicVoice View Post
    Howdy. So I'm a Red-line Hunter, with splashes into Yellow for Mits + I picked up Rain of Thorns for another nice AOE. I mostly solo, and get by without too many problems.
    BUT. Got invited to Remmorchant raid. I did alright, but was criticized for running in Strength Stance and for not having the Precision Stance Crit Mag Legacy.
    I'm replying to this thread because I think I did the math wrong as well.

    PSCM = +44% // Strength Stance Damage = +15% with LI legacy.

    My ranged Crit rating is only 24% (used to be way lower, which is why I focused on straight damage buffs). And I use the Pen Shot Crit Debuff thingy ALL the time, so I usually have an effective ranged crit rating of 34%, if I understand the skill correctly.

    Well, I used to think 33% (crit chance) x 44% (Crit Multiplier) = +14.5% overall damage bonus. ==> slightly less than my +15% Strength Stance Bonus...

    Are crit damage bonuses added differently? Are my assumptions way off?
    When a critical hit is landed, the outgoing damage is calculated as follows (then target's mitigations obviously applies) : BASE_MAX*(1+PM)*(1+SKILL)*(1+C M)

    Where "PM" is the sum of your Physical Mastery and "Ranged Damage" bonus (eg. "Shoot to Kill" & "Impact Arrows"), while "SKILL" is the sum of specific skill derived bonus (eg. "Induction bow damage" & "Swift & True") and CM is your critical magnitude bonus, which is 50% + 'bonus from critical rating' + sum_of(bonus from legs & traits to specific skill)

    It's the same for devastating hits, you just add +50% to the critical multiplier unless you also have devastating magnitude to add on top, from relics or a focus pot for example.


    This means that on a critical or devastating hit, the bonus from Precision stance adds BASE_MAX*(1+PM)*(1+SKILL)*0.44 to the skill damage, and that happens close to half the time given 25% crit + 5% from Critical Eye + 10% from PS debuff + devastating chance.

    Because the bonus damage from Strength Stance is added towards "skill bonuses" (they're worded as "+x% to Induction/Focus Bow damage), with a maxed unimbued legacy you add to every :
    non critical hit : BASE_RANDOM*(1+PM)*0.2,
    critical hit : BASE_MAX*(1+PM)*0.2*(1+CM)
    devastating hit : BASE_MAX*(1+PM)*0.2*(1+CM+0.5)


    You can check that for "skill bonuses" value as low as 35%, Precision yields higher damage per skill usage on average when critical rating sits at 630k. Since most skills have higher than 35% from legacies alones, Precision does dwarf Strength without even considering increased critical hit chance for Quick Shot.
    Last edited by Gabli; Jun 16 2020 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Corrections and clarifications
    Gabrediel, Original Challenger of Sarouman | Gabramir, Original Challenger of Gothmog

    Unquale - Sirannon [FR]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabli View Post
    You can check that Precision's bonus will quickly dwarf Strength's one even with unrealistically low Physical Mastery values.
    I'm not getting those same results from CombatAnalysis/tooltips. What I'm seeing from Strength Stance (non-imbued) is a flat ~15% damage boost (at 210% ranged damage cap). If I drop out of strength and back in and look at tooltips, it's +15% on every skill.

    For crit magnitude, if you're decently over crit cap and you have both crit magnitude legacies, your critical hits are hitting for ~312% of a non-crit (150% base + ~75% magnitude + 87% legacies). Adding another 44% magnitude on top of that brings your crits to 356% damage.

    So, for example, you take 4 shots in Strength (2 crit). They hit for 115, 115, 359 (3.12*115), 359 = 948

    Then 4 shots in Precision (2 crit). They hit for 100, 100, 356 (3.56*100), 356 = 912

    ------

    So how it plays out on a training dummy at least, they're fairly even UNTIL you toss in the Quick Shot crit chance in Precision legacy, which gives you ~43% more QS damage from an extra 12.5% crit, which also means more Upshot/Heartseeker cooldown reduction. That's what puts it head and shoulders above Strength.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    ...
    My bad, I have no idea how I came to forget that Mastery and skill specific bonuses are multiplicative... I corrected the post above to reflect this more accurately, but the conclusion is the same.

    Strength is added towards skill specific bonuses, which means that for these Induction skills, damage improvement from Strength lists as follows when using unimbued melee LI for +20% bonus :
    • Quick Shot : +10.83%
    • Swift Bow : +9.32%


    It will be lower for Heart Seeker, but higher for Focus skills. Overall, less interesting than Precision's bonus.



    To support what I write here, there is a screenshot with skills' tooltip damage with Precision (left row) and Strength (right row, +10.838%) :

    Bonuses applying to QS/SB :
    • Induction Bow legacy : +34.8%
    • Draw Weight : +15%
    • Specific legacies : +34.8%
    • Swit & True (only for SB) : +30%


    That's +84.6% for Quick Shot and +114.6% for Swift Bow

    Bonuses applying to Penetrating Shot : +25% from Strong Draw (no legacy as Induction bow was equipped)

    Calculating expected value with strength from the ones with Precision :
    • QS : 23 730*(1.846+0.10838)/(1.846) = 25 123.2
    • SB :
      • Arrow 1 : 51 925*(2.146+0.10838)/(2.146) = 54 547.4
      • Arrow 2 : 49 767*(2.146+0.10838)/(2.146) = 52 259.4
      • Arrow 3 : 37 401*(2.146+0.10838)/(2.146) = 39 289.9

    • PS : 40 296*(1.25+0.10883)/(1.25) = 43 789.8


    Fits the data pretty well IMO
    Gabrediel, Original Challenger of Sarouman | Gabramir, Original Challenger of Gothmog

    Unquale - Sirannon [FR]

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabli View Post
    To support what I write here, there is a screenshot with skills' tooltip damage with Precision (left row) and Strength (right row, +10.838%) :
    My Strength Stance buff reads +20% to both Induction and Focus Bow Damage. I think your non-imbued offhand wasn't equipped if it's only showing 10.838?
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    My Strength Stance buff reads +20% to both Induction and Focus Bow Damage. I think your non-imbued offhand wasn't equipped if it's only showing 10.838?
    Absolutely, this screenshot was only here to show data consistent with my calculations.
    +10.83% to Quick Shot damage and +9.31% to Swift Bow damage is what you should get given +20% from Strength Stance (so trait and uninmubed weapon) with relevant traits and legacies.
    Gabrediel, Original Challenger of Sarouman | Gabramir, Original Challenger of Gothmog

    Unquale - Sirannon [FR]

 

 

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