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  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamita View Post
    When I pointed out that no matter how bad my computer may or may not be, it has nothing to do with 100% packet loss on their server end, I did finally get a response that they would forward the information to their team. Where it will likely be put in the circular file, I'm sure. Sometimes I wonder if the servers are housed in some uncle's garage somewhere. "I can save the company tons of money!"

    It really is sad, with people coming back to play during the free offer, that they are seeing the problems are still the same. That's not how you earn business, SSG.
    They probably figured that out themselves. I guess that if they had the means to improve it, they would.

  2. #27
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    Well SSG aren't playing Lotro or they might have noticed the second extra day of virtue exp bonus.
    "+10% Virtue XP 3/26/20@10am 3/30/20@3am"

    So it must be either DDO or a game they actually pay to play in preference.

    The lag does keep it interesting though. Having so much fun with mounted combat these days.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braer View Post
    Well SSG aren't playing Lotro or they might have noticed the second extra day of virtue exp bonus.
    "+10% Virtue XP 3/26/20@10am 3/30/20@3am"

    So it must be either DDO or a game they actually pay to play in preference.

    The lag does keep it interesting though. Having so much fun with mounted combat these days.
    While I'm all for pointing out mistakes and bugs, as well as concerns we are unhappy with to get them corrected or changed. Like the lag issue is definetly something to raise concerns about. As for the 10% the VXP boost, if WE all acctually pay attention WE would all have noticed (I'm sure most did, but maybe not all) that SSG acctullay did announce the following.

    Link: https://www.lotro.com/en/friends

    An Important Announcement From Standing Stone Games, LLC.

    'I wish it need not have happened in my time,' said Frodo.
    'So do I,' said Gandalf, 'and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.'


    Here at Standing Stone Games our goal is to bring joy to everyone through our games and we feel that is more important than ever. We are making all our adventures and stories open to everyone through April 30. In addition we will be running extra events for the games.

    For Dungeons and Dragons Online:

    • All dungeons and raids, including those in expansion packs, are open to everyone through April 30.
    • The Buddy Bonus 5% XP will be active from March 20 through March 29. This will be in addition to the weekend events.
    • Mimic event will be active starting March 26 through April 6.
    • The anniversary event will be active starting March 26 through April 30.


    For Lord of the Rings Online:

    • All quests, instances, and skirmishes, including those in expansion packs, are open to everyone through April 30.
    • The Curator will be returning starting March 26 through April 30.
    • There will be a 10% virtue XP boost starting on March 26 through April 6.
    • The Baggins' Birthday event will be available March 26 through April 6.


    During this time we hope that everyone stays safe. Thank you.
    I highlighted the part about 10% VXP boost lasting until April 6.

    So it is acctually no mistake that the boost is still active. I hope that will give You some ease. For anyone playing be happy it is active and make the most of it I guess.

  4. #29
    Well the lag is worse than ever with a new peak yesterday. Even with low settings I had anything from 10seconds to a minute delay opening a dialog with npc... switching zones... not going to talk about it, since I will use words and descriptions about it, that will get me banned. But the worse, and nothing new. Despite this, I decided to buy something from the lotro in-game store... guess what, the item never appeared, which is also an old story concerning this game and server functionality. Have ofc submitted a ticket, but still after 28 hours, no reply.... which many beside me have complained about before. Customer service are not what they used to be.

    I do understand that the servers are under more stress, during these corona times and that all have been given VIP access, but how about pinned post in the forums or your Facebook, even twitter about the problems you are having? You would get more sympathy from the playerbase then, than keep a lit on everything.

    In my opinion, based on what we are experiencing, The game is suffering either under poor management or poor fundings.

    My gear, my internet problem... don’t think so with;
    Gamer Xtreme i220 - Core i9 Edition
    GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER, Core i9-9900KF, 32GB, 1TB SSD

    150/150 mb line

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aranaan View Post
    Well the lag is worse than ever with a new peak yesterday. Even with low settings I had anything from 10seconds to a minute delay opening a dialog with npc... switching zones... not going to talk about it, since I will use words and descriptions about it, that will get me banned. But the worse, and nothing new. Despite this, I decided to buy something from the lotro in-game store... guess what, the item never appeared, which is also an old story concerning this game and server functionality. Have ofc submitted a ticket, but still after 28 hours, no reply.... which many beside me have complained about before. Customer service are not what they used to be.

    I do understand that the servers are under more stress, during these corona times and that all have been given VIP access, but how about pinned post in the forums or your Facebook, even twitter about the problems you are having? You would get more sympathy from the playerbase then, than keep a lit on everything.

    In my opinion, based on what we are experiencing, The game is suffering either under poor management or poor fundings.

    My gear, my internet problem... don’t think so with;
    Gamer Xtreme i220 - Core i9 Edition
    GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER, Core i9-9900KF, 32GB, 1TB SSD

    150/150 mb line
    Yes, I've yet to see a single post were they even admit that there's a major problem with server lag, maybe if they refuse to admit it then there is no problem? I guess SSG took a lesson from the CCP

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Funk View Post
    I highlighted the part about 10% VXP boost lasting until April 6.

    So it is acctually no mistake that the boost is still active. I hope that will give You some ease. For anyone playing be happy it is active and make the most of it I guess.
    There's me falling foul over stuff I see on the internet again. We always like to think we are savvy enough to pick through it and dismiss the lies, misconceptions and errors. We are not!

  7. #32
    Especially yesterday was a really worse experience to play. I had skill lags from 10 seconds, also for NPC talks. I also targetet Mobs and it says there isn't one. Really horrible.

    Playing from EU on Belegaer.

    Has DDO the same problems ? (i dunno, not playing it)

  8. #33
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Braer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Funk View Post
    ...I highlighted the part about 10% VXP boost lasting until April 6.

    So it is acctually no mistake that the boost is still active. I hope that will give You some ease. For anyone playing be happy it is active and make the most of it I guess. ...
    There's me falling foul over stuff I see on the internet again. We always like to think we are savvy enough to pick through it and dismiss the lies, misconceptions and errors. We are not!
    Don't worry about it. We all get it wrong sometimes. Me included. One mistake on one thing does not automatically make us wrong on everything else. I share most concerns and criticism raised in these forums as well. The current skill delays (lag) and such is indeed serious issues that affect many people, along with a ton of other issues.

    As far as "making mistakes sometimes doesn't make us wrong in all things", we should of course extend that curtesy to SSG as well. If they get it wrong sometimes I can overlook it. However there are too many issues affecting too much of the game (not even being adressed or even aknowledged) atm to simply overlook it in my opinion.

  9. #34
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    So...

    Solutions.

    1. How much does a "decent" server cost, in terms of capital and running costs? Running costs one might hope are covered by game income (if not there something is really struggling)
    2. Crowdfunding? I'm willing to put in some ££ (other currencies apparentyly exist). It would naturally behoove SSG to follow the usual arrangements with a quid pro quo for constibutors, presumably scaled in proportion to contribution.

    I'm guessing that there can be a raft of reasons why not to #2 but how many of them stand up to scrutiny? I've said before that I have no real issue in investing more in the game in return for something tangible. Store tat isn't anything like as tangible as better perfomance, which latter also benefits the whole community. At this time of global crisis and a paradigm shift, go ahead, do your part :-)
    Mithithil Ithryndi

  10. #35
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    Isn't this free to play model crowdfunding in another guise? It can be played free but some see value in subbing and/or buying extras along the way. Whether anyone gets a proportional return is up to them to decide. Part of crowdfunding is seeing the potential but those who've been around a while perhaps made the decision to stop their funding exactly because of the failures to address performance issues, the lack of transparency, the DDOers in charge and the Daybreak influence on the game.

  11. #36
    I came back recently after about two year break from lotro. I left off in minas tirith and boy I was ever so glad to get that finished up yesterday. The worst lag I have ever experienced was running those quests, the pelennor fields and osgiliath. I don't even like to use my war mount unless I absolutely have to and can't even count how may times I have been rubber banded off the top of cliffs, bridges into rivers and yes even the top of the citadel. I remember getting a lot of lag after rohan released, at least for my part. Seems it has just continuously got worse and worse. You know people's pc's and internet have become so much better over the years so that is not to blame. This game played pretty good in the early years on my pc and it was so much worse than the one I have today. My internet is awesome as well. This is clearly something with SSG and some pretty terrible servers. It's too bad as I still love this game and always find myself coming back to play with new dlc's launching. Not sure how much more of this I can take though.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Funk View Post
    Don't worry about it. We all get it wrong sometimes. Me included. One mistake on one thing does not automatically make us wrong on everything else. I share most concerns and criticism raised in these forums as well. The current skill delays (lag) and such is indeed serious issues that affect many people, along with a ton of other issues.

    As far as "making mistakes sometimes doesn't make us wrong in all things", we should of course extend that curtesy to SSG as well. If they get it wrong sometimes I can overlook it. However there are too many issues affecting too much of the game (not even being adressed or even aknowledged) atm to simply overlook it in my opinion.
    I'm wrong to read the events schedule for event timings? I did miss the article details, but it's been long since articles were substantive beyond a marketing tool, even if this one was an exception.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Funk View Post
    One mistake on one thing does not automatically make us wrong on everything else.

    Thank the Lord for that! Well...I mean...not that I've ever been "wrong" about anything...well...not much anyway....um...

  14. #39
    As some of you probably realize by now, I play both Dungeons & Dragon Online (DDO) and The Lord of the Rings Online (TLOTRO).

    With regards 'lag', the following was posted in the DDO forums on March 20, 2020 (link). Cocomajobo is an Associate Producer (Congratulations, Coco!) and really nice person. While the post below was made in response to 'lag' in DDO, I feel it strongly speaks to similar issues in TLOTRO and so deserves repeating. My intent is not to put Coco on the spot. My intent is to show that the people at Standing Stone Game very obviously care about 'lag'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    I understand that server/client performance issues put a major damper on people's enjoyment of the game when they occur. I also understand that people playing DDO have been experiencing server/client performance issues more regularly than they would like in the past few months. I assure you that resources have been investigating causes and implementing fixes pretty much continuously all year. Has this so far resulted in a lag free environment? Clearly not. Does this mean that we are done attempting to make improvements? Absolutely not.

    I don't have a timeline for you. Having a timeline on "fixing lag" is an impossible thing as the number of causes are innumerable and locating and addressing individual causes both takes time and is not a straightforward assessment of "Oh, if we fix this thing than server performance dips will be reduced by 62%". It's more like "Well, if we make this script more efficient by consolidating these dozen extraneous callbacks that should reduce server strain when players do X action.". This is all talking about working to combat server/client performance issues during ideal times which we are not in as recently many engineering and ops resources have needed to shift to studio critical issues such as making a smooth transition for the studio to work from home as well as making the "all content is open to players through April 30th" initiative possible as well as other large intensive critical projects that are not public facing.

    The reason that devs don't tend to comment on threads like this is that

    • Devs are not engineers/operations people and are not typically the people able to do anything about lag
    • Giving specifics on this topic is incredibly difficult and everyone knows players get tired of "We're investigating"


    Again, I understand that these answers are not satisfactory. I do. This is, however, the blunt truth of the matter. We are doing what we can in order to provide a stable game environment for everyone to play on and will continue to do so going forward.
    On March 26, 2020, Cocomajobo made another post in the DDO forums on this issue as relates to DDO (link).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    We have identified some likely culprits of the recent extreme issues you all are experiencing. We are working on fixes for them currently and have tentatively scheduled to get those out to the live servers early next week. I'll keep you all updated on if that timeline needs to change based on unforeseen complications.
    Finally, in response to yet more complaints about 'lag' in the DDO forums, SSG_RedPanda, another very nice person and developer at Standing Stone Games, wrote the following on April 2, 2020 (link).

    Quote Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda View Post
    Coco has already talked about this in another thread, I'll just paste the response below again here

    <text of first post above; edited out for brevity>

    There is no silver bullet to "fixing the lag". Game performance is something we are always talking about and we are always investigating for ways to improve server/client performance issues and make the game more enjoyable.
    Although the posts above relate to DDO, it seems rather obvious to me that work on 'lag' will ultimately benefit both games.

    I have now played many online games over the last 7 years. I have seen 'lag' come and I have seen 'lag' go. It tends to show up for a while, lots of people complain as the weeks or months drag on, then, one day, it magically clears up for most people and the topic disappears. Well, it disappears until the next 'lag' causing thing rears its ugly head. Alas, some people never see resolution to a particular 'lag' issue and they give up. That sucks but computers are extremely complex things and no one human being has complete comprehension of them. I always put 'lag' in quotations because it serves as a catch all for a bazillion computer related issues.

    At the risk of sounding like a fan girl, which I am, hang in there.
    Sophie the Enchantress - Creator, Dreamer, Explorer - Happy yet Sad - Seeker of Beauty and Wonder

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by SophieTheEnchantress View Post
    Although the posts above relate to DDO, it seems rather obvious to me that work on 'lag' will ultimately benefit both games.

    Thanks for posting. I don't play DDO, so these posts were news to me. I think it's commendable for the Devs to say what they did...to show concern...admit they don't have the answers...but state that they are ABSOLUTELY still working on improving the "lag" situation in that game.

    So then, the natural question is, why weren't these same statements made to the LOTRO customers as well? To me, they would have gone a long way towards reassuring LOTRO players that they DO indeed CARE about our lag problems. So why all the silence instead? For those that suspect DDO is indeed favored by the SSG staff...this isn't going to help change that opinion.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda
    ...There is no silver bullet to "fixing the lag"...
    While I understand that this is the case in general for performance issues. That so many things affects it and no one magiuc silver bullet to fix it all etc. HOWEVER there seem to have been a magic silver bullet creating the delays we noticeably got worse after Minas Morgul was realeased, or just right about the time the the transition to a new database was made. I mean as for other issues that comes and goes, one day worse, one day a bit better, along with war-steed warp jumps etc that we have lived with for years there is no easy fix, as it's routing, network code, collision code, world loading code, ISP, bandwith, DDOS attacks, server infrastructure, equipment breaks etc (you name it) that adds to it.

    But this current bad skill delay, delay on mail etc magically came like a silver bullet pretty much all at once and hit us like a brick. Maybe find what caused all that out of nowhere and reverse it ??? I personally suspect the new datbase system/code to be a big culprit. Unless You did something else at the same time that caused it, maybe when implementing the new database You also did changes in the servers infrastructure or something, then maybe that is the culprit ??? In any case it was very noticable when it hit all at once. A clear jump in the issue. Not just sneaking up some days bit by bit like in the past. More like "booom" in our faces one day all things got very noticeably worse.

    No, it was NOT due to the Covid19 situation, it was way before that as so many have mentioned and as I also stated above. 3 things that I know happend around that time period was "new database", "backbone work" (which I think you guys hinted was the database implementation, maybe it was something else as well or something more, only you know), "Minas Morgul released", "Carry Alls introduced". Those are all good places to start finding out what happened around that time behind the scenes.

    Of course I'm only guessing, as we have so little information. Only You guys know if and what thing or things You did around that time that suddenly in a major way increased what people call "lag" (in general terms). That I see more as "delays" as it's not the usual lag we all have lived with for over a decade now. It feels more like skills or actions are put in some waiting list to be carried out. The more other players around (in the area or on the servers) also requesting to carry out actions, the longer the waiting list.

    Today I could even affect it myself or my own gameplay actions. I was in the Camp in Minas Morgul, Echad Uial, where I had logged out 3 weeks ago. Started wanting to both detach items from mails and the resend them in new mails to alts. It was horrible with long delays and even random error messages. Sometiems items could be seen both in the mail and in my bags at the same time, almost as if "quantum superposition" was in effect due to the delays. Then Logged another character who was in Skarhald and almost no delays at all. I then logged in another character who that was in the camp in Mins Morgul area, Echad Uial, and same delays were back, then mapped him to Skarhald and suddenly the delay to recieve and send mails were almost gone. So with alot of other people around (no idea how the server resources are divided with regions and layers and such) wanting to carry out actions and maybe many of them having Carry Alls, alot of items in bags, trying to acccess npcs inventory menues (and alot of things loading that need access to the database), maybe many of them also trying to send mails and open menues etc and it was horrible. Then getting to a place on the servers where I could only see 2 other players there were no issues receiving and sending mails.

    Problem is that alot of people can't just go to another area and do the actions they want (like I could with simply mailing stuff to alts), as for most of them, what they want to do is in Minas Morgul areas, as it's end-game area now and clearly something within the code or server infrastructure can not handle it. In the past it could handle the latest newest areas and alot of player around better than this, still with some "lag" yes, but nowhere near the way it is now with "delays" (no again not only since covid19, but since around the time I mentioned above).

    Like even when the previous LvL 120 areas like Skarhald or even Hultvis was end-game hubs (not that long ago) and alot of people around the quest NPC's and such it was nothing like this. It was a bit of loading when getting there (all outfits loading etc), but then no issues like we have now in Minas Morgul. No isseus sending mails, no issues opening NPC menues, no skill delays etc. Something has definetly changed since then. Making it so that LoTRO can not handle a large amount of players anymore without all these issues.
    Last edited by Lord.Funk; Apr 02 2020 at 08:32 PM.

  17. #42
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    I guess they are focused on DDO for a reason.

    I hope that the remit for the pass couple of years of landscape "gentrification" was taking out the unnecessary rather than just adding on top. Cordovan's detachable camera use must horrify the team when a slip could expose the junk we can all see when we slip beneath game surface and take a good look behind/under the scene when our server gets overwhelmed.

    It can't be just looking to streamline code, which ofc we would welcome. The look of the game has always taken priority over how we have to interact in that environment. How many driving marketing lead items into the game actually consider the impact on performance or undermining of gameplay and game systems they seem oblivious too.

    The length of time the transfers have been offline would indicate lack of risk assessment or appreciation of requirement before major backend changes are implemented. Seems crazy not to have had the closed down servers' data in the new datacentre before proceeding. Maybe they just can't fathom why anyone wants to come back to play Lotro?

    Admittedly the issues are compounded by the additional numbers online. Generous yes but risk accessed?

    I look forward to the "experts" being allowed to inform us here rather than the press officer.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Narthalion View Post
    So then, the natural question is, why weren't these same statements made to the LOTRO customers as well? To me, they would have gone a long way towards reassuring LOTRO players that they DO indeed CARE about our lag problems. So why all the silence instead? For those that suspect DDO is indeed favored by the SSG staff...this isn't going to help change that opinion.

    This seems like a fair question to me. Devs?

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo

    It's more like "Well, if we make this script more efficient by consolidating these dozen extraneous callbacks that should reduce server strain when players do X action".

    This quote scares the heck out of me.

    Who is writing code that has dozens of extraneous callbacks?

    Why wasn't something like that refactored?

    "Callback Hell" is a thing which can be easily avoided.

    /*I had a massive wall of text written here but I suspect none of the SSG people are going to pay attention to this post or my diatribe about using "Best Practices" so I decided it wasn't worth the emotional stress. I really do love this game and it is a shame what has happened to it*/

    A good software engineer sets aside 5-10 hours a week to learn something new.

    I am guilty of not always doing this because I am old, set in my ways, and think that I already know everything.

    Deep down I know that isn't true so I end up finding the time to learn some new tricks, old dog and all.

    Vast changes happen every day in the programming world and it is critical to take the time to learn.

    NEVER stop learning.

    When you write lazy/sloppy code because you have not taken the time to learn the best practices in writing it ("best" changes weekly), you end up with a program that has massive lag for no good reason and a very upset player base.

    Which is why this thread exists.

    I really enjoy this game but it is unplayable in its current state.

    I would like to add that I am a huge fan of TDD/BDD. When done correctly you end up with a much better/cleaner/smoother/etc.. final product. Faster development cycle as well.
    Last edited by flyingaround; Apr 03 2020 at 03:09 PM.

 

 
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