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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheArtilleryman View Post
    That’s what I mean about your whole argument being about that one quote. I’ve presented you with a raft of possible evidence
    None of which contradicted how Tolkien portrayed hobbits as having a much more peaceable, far less aggressive nature than Men. Your 'raft' was just a flimsy assemblage of non-specific quotes that did nothing to make your case for Champion in particular, they were really just the sort of quotes you'd reach for to justify hobbits being playable as any sort of melee class. Nobody said hobbits couldn't show some martial skill, but that isn't what defines a Champion: a fervour to hurl themselves into the fray and butcher the enemy several at a time does. That class has skills with names like 'Savage Strikes', 'Feral Strikes', 'Battle Frenzy' and 'Blood Rage' as well as mention of berserking, so it's obvious what the devs meant it to be. So neither hobbits nor the Champion class really fit into that picture you're trying to paint and you're just making things up as you go along.

    lol you just can’t do it, can you?
    It was a loaded question. I've made it plain what I think, that if the price of a new hobbit sub-race is this sort of nonsense then it's just not worth it.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    None of which contradicted how Tolkien portrayed hobbits as having a much more peaceable, far less aggressive nature than Men. Your 'raft' was just a flimsy assemblage of non-specific quotes that did nothing to make your case for Champion in particular, they were really just the sort of quotes you'd reach for to justify hobbits being playable as any sort of melee class. Nobody said hobbits couldn't show some martial skill, but that isn't what defines a Champion: a fervour to hurl themselves into the fray and butcher the enemy several at a time does. That class has skills with names like 'Savage Strikes', 'Feral Strikes', 'Battle Frenzy' and 'Blood Rage' as well as mention of berserking, so it's obvious what the devs meant it to be. So neither hobbits nor the Champion class really fit into that picture you're trying to paint and you're just making things up as you go along.


    It was a loaded question. I've made it plain what I think, that if the price of a new hobbit sub-race is this sort of nonsense then it's just not worth it.
    That’s better! We have some different pieces of evidence being used! Unfortunately this isn’t something that the devs let stop them. With the high elf, they allowed them to have captains, but we still have the “Blade of Elendil” skill and the “Leader of Men” trait tree. I don’t see them letting something as small as a “blood rage” skill putt them off

    Anyway, I keep telling you I’m not trying to paint any picture, just offer the alternative points that illustrate how it could be possible to interpret the text that way. It is of course your view (and mine) that the champion isn’t right for hobbits, but it is entirely possible that someone could interpret Tolkien’s text differently. That’s why people argue so much about history; because they view it differently. That’s also why we have different political parties, or different sides on the Brexit argument, even polar opposite arguments about what to do about COVID-19.

    Let’s leave this discussion now because we could go on forever. Some folks will identifiy with the devil’s advocation I have put forward. As I’ve said from very early on in this debate, I actually agree with you.

    Truce?

    I’m an alien, an illegal alien: I’m a Gondorian Captain in Rohan...

  3. #103
    They're taking the Hobbits to Gundabad.....

    Cheers
    “It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end… because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing… this shadow. Even darkness must pass.”

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fealhach View Post
    They're taking the Hobbits to Gundabad.....

    Cheers
    I laughed our loud. Good one!

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheArtilleryman View Post
    That’s better! We have some different pieces of evidence being used! Unfortunately this isn’t something that the devs let stop them. With the high elf, they allowed them to have captains, but we still have the “Blade of Elendil” skill and the “Leader of Men” trait tree. I don’t see them letting something as small as a “blood rage” skill putt them off
    Not really the same, that was lazy implementation of something that made sense - the High Elves had led the Last Alliance alongside Elendil & Co, after all, so once we were past the 'lore cookie' of having High Elves running around all over the place, having them be Captains was completely reasonable. I for one didn't argue

    Anyway, I keep telling you I’m not trying to paint any picture, just offer the alternative points that illustrate how it could be possible to interpret the text that way. It is of course your view (and mine) that the champion isn’t right for hobbits, but it is entirely possible that someone could interpret Tolkien’s text differently.
    Only if they were treating hobbits as if they were just really small Men, and I'd never accept that because the plot demands otherwise - there was a reason why the Ring had trouble putting the whammy on hobbits, there was a fundamental innocence about them - they didn't seek power over others like Men would (aggressive violence being one way of doing that, with its pursuit leading to a desire for ever greater strength). Look at what happens when the Ring tries to tempt Sam, and compare that to how readily it got to Boromir.

    Truce?
    Gladly agreed

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Not really the same, that was lazy implementation of something that made sense - the High Elves had led the Last Alliance alongside Elendil & Co, after all, so once we were past the 'lore cookie' of having High Elves running around all over the place, having them be Captains was completely reasonable. I for one didn't argue
    I agree, the high elf captain makes sense as a class. Just a shame they couldn’t change the name of some of the skills. I’m sure it could have been done.

    Only if they were treating hobbits as if they were just really small Men, and I'd never accept that because the plot demands otherwise - there was a reason why the Ring had trouble putting the whammy on hobbits, there was a fundamental innocence about them - they didn't seek power over others like Men would (aggressive violence being one way of doing that, with its pursuit leading to a desire for ever greater strength). Look at what happens when the Ring tries to tempt Sam, and compare that to how readily it got to Boromir.
    Urrrgghhh... I could open up the argument again and ask then why it made Sméagol (a river hobbit) so ready to murder his friend in an instant .... but I won’t, I’ll just put that down to the ring throwing out all the pent-up power it could from centuries buried in the river in that one moment in a desperate effort to avoid getting lost again (and the need for Tolkien to come up with a plot device that has the ring found and eventually delivered to Bilbo ).

    Gladly agreed
    Truce is on! Phew, that was tiring

    I’m an alien, an illegal alien: I’m a Gondorian Captain in Rohan...

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Look at what happens when the Ring tries to tempt Sam, and compare that to how readily it got to Boromir.

    Let's not go there.

    There are two fundamental differences. Sam had no previous knowledge of the ring prior to the moment Gandalf spoke to Frodo. Then after that moment, Sam was given good advice and history relating to the ring and its power. So, by the time Sam actually wore the ring, he knew full well the consequence. Sam had already experienced an unfiltered moment before reaching Rivendell with how the ring affected Frodo.

    Where as Boromir had lived his whole life with stories about how the One Ring would be of great benefit to the race of Man. Also, Boromir was sent to Rivendell with the task to bring home a great gift to Gondor. Boromir already wanted the ring before he ever knew it was found or personally seen it. Firamir...?


    High Elf Captains still makes little sense. Just because they have the light of Valinor in their eyes doesn't qualify. High Elves are like any other race. Not every High Elf was a natural born leader. In fact, most were sheep following guys like Feanor just because he had good propaganda and a platform to preach it from. Seeing a Hobbit Captain makes about as much sense, but since LotRO has already gone there, I don't see it as non negotiable.
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Not really the same, that was lazy implementation of something that made sense - the High Elves had led the Last Alliance alongside Elendil & Co, after all, so once we were past the 'lore cookie' of having High Elves running around all over the place, having them be Captains was completely reasonable. I for one didn't argue


    Only if they were treating hobbits as if they were just really small Men, and I'd never accept that because the plot demands otherwise - there was a reason why the Ring had trouble putting the whammy on hobbits, there was a fundamental innocence about them - they didn't seek power over others like Men would (aggressive violence being one way of doing that, with its pursuit leading to a desire for ever greater strength). Look at what happens when the Ring tries to tempt Sam, and compare that to how readily it got to Boromir.

    But look how easily it got to Bilbo.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  9. #109
    Captain is not a great leader, king or whoever, he's just an officer of a regiment or a band of mercenaries.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheArtilleryman View Post
    Urrrgghhh... I could open up the argument again and ask then why it made Sméagol (a river hobbit) so ready to murder his friend in an instant .... but I won’t, I’ll just put that down to the ring throwing out all the pent-up power it could from centuries buried in the river in that one moment in a desperate effort to avoid getting lost again (and the need for Tolkien to come up with a plot device that has the ring found and eventually delivered to Bilbo ).
    (Not arguing, just commenting)... It's a way of emphasising the power of the Ring, it wouldn't have been half so dramatic if Smeagol had just stolen it and it seems symbolic in a Cain killing Abel kind of way. Yes, you can view it as the Ring expending every effort to make sure they took it with them, and simply finding that Smeagol was more apt to evil. Perhaps it wanted him to have it for reasons of its own, and Deagol wouldn't have parted with it willingly so it pushed Smeagol into killing him. Maybe it was just fate, so the Ring would end up where it did.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    Let's not go there.
    Says he, going there... the point was that the Ring couldn't find any profound desire in Sam sufficient to get him to give in to temptation, even on the borders of Mordor where it was way more powerful than it had been earlier. Boromir evidently sees it as a weapon even after being told what it really represented, so we can easily surmise how the Ring was tempting him - with the power to defeat his enemies. Sam on the other hand could see that the grandiose visions he was shown were just a trick, even with the Ring bearing down on him with much more force.

    "In that hour of trial it was the love of his master that helped most to
    hold him firm; but also deep down in him lived still unconquered his plain
    hobbit-sense: he knew in the core of his heart that he was not large enough to
    bear such a burden, even if such visions were not a mere cheat to betray him.
    The one small garden of a free gardener was all his need and due, not a garden
    swollen to a realm; his own hands to use, not the hands of others to command."

    - ROTK, 'The Tower of Cirith Ungol'

    And note how he doesn't want to command others.

    There are two fundamental differences. Sam had no previous knowledge of the ring prior to the moment Gandalf spoke to Frodo. Then after that moment, Sam was given good advice and history relating to the ring and its power. So, by the time Sam actually wore the ring, he knew full well the consequence. Sam had already experienced an unfiltered moment before reaching Rivendell with how the ring affected Frodo.
    Boromir was given excellent advice, even if he doesn't really heed it - he urged the Council to use the Ring as a weapon, and Elrond told him exactly why they couldn't and what a deadly threat it really represented. And he'd already known at least something of its history, up until the end of the War of the Last Alliance.

    Where as Boromir had lived his whole life with stories about how the One Ring would be of great benefit to the race of Man.
    O'rly?

    "At this the stranger, Boromir, broke in. 'So that is what became of the Ring!' he
    cried. 'If ever such a tale was told in the South, it has long been forgotten. I have
    heard of the Great Ring of him that we do not name; but we believed that it perished
    from the world in the ruin of his first realm. Isildur took it! That is tidings indeed.'"

    - FOTR, 'The Council of Elrond'

    What are you referring to? Quote, please.

    Also, Boromir was sent to Rivendell with the task to bring home a great gift to Gondor. Boromir already wanted the ring before he ever knew it was found or personally seen it. Firamir...?
    Where are you getting this from? Botomir came to Rivendell on account of that vision he and Faramir had had, the whole "Seek for the Sword that was broken" thing. Boromir doesn't know what Isildur's Bane is until Elrond names it as the Ring, because he didn't know Isildur had taken the Ring for himself nor that it had survived Sauron's downfall.

    High Elf Captains still makes little sense. Just because they have the light of Valinor in their eyes doesn't qualify. High Elves are like any other race. Not every High Elf was a natural born leader.
    They don't have to be, any more than every Man does. Talk sense. And they had a history of providing leadership going back thousands of years, in fighting both Morgoth and Sauron. Hobbits don't. Even trying to compare the two is silly.

  12. #112
    Radhruinu you’re absolutely right boromir and Sam can’t compare ,Sam is responsible for Frodo to throw the ring and save the middle earth and Boromir is a man of Gondor who can’t even kill an Uruk and some goblins when attacked I can’t even imagine Boromir with her spider alone Another issue Sam is not tempted by Sauron it meant separating from Frodo and Sam is not separated from Frodo nor Sauron nor 100 million dollars nor miss world hobbit nothing can separate Sam from Frodo neither the ring and Sauron

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodin12 View Post
    Radhruinu you’re absolutely right boromir and Sam can’t compare ,Sam is responsible for Frodo to throw the ring and save the middle earth and Boromir is a man of Gondor who can’t even kill an Uruk and some goblins when attacked I can’t even imagine Boromir with her spider alone Another issue Sam is not tempted by Sauron it meant separating from Frodo and Sam is not separated from Frodo nor Sauron nor 100 million dollars nor miss world hobbit nothing can separate Sam from Frodo neither the ring and Sauron
    Yes, not even the Ring could break up Sam and Frodo's epic bromance

  14. #114
    saw someone the new cosmetics of the ribers hobbits in up 26 hobytia I think is called think to what class it can correspond are light

  15. #115
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    Has there been any more news on when the River Hobbits will be coming?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by EB64 View Post
    Has there been any more news on when the River Hobbits will be coming?
    Cord said just now in his livestream that there's no official confirmation regarding River Hobbits happening.
    Laergwend (Mini) - Gladden dweller!
    Laergwend (Mini) - officer of Legacy - Ithil & not moving out
    RIP Ithil
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelinarien View Post
    Cord said just now in his livestream that there's no official confirmation regarding River Hobbits happening.
    Nnnnnooooooooo!(in the style of Darth Vader)
    Well...I guess I can still wish for them, but just not keep my hopes up..

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by EB64 View Post
    Nnnnnooooooooo!(in the style of Darth Vader)
    Well...I guess I can still wish for them, but just not keep my hopes up..
    'No official' confirmation does not mean they are not thinking about it, so don't give up your dreams, young padawan

    The pie is strong with this one.
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amorey View Post
    'No official' confirmation does not mean they are not thinking about it, so don't give up your dreams, young padawan

    The pie is strong with this one.
    Indeed, it's not a confirmation but it's not a denial
    Laergwend (Mini) - Gladden dweller!
    Laergwend (Mini) - officer of Legacy - Ithil & not moving out
    RIP Ithil
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  20. #120
    Players want more hobbits, and SSG knows it.

  21. #121
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    I was thinking about this just last night, so no official confirmation is a bit disappointing. I hope that means that somewhere, although not officially confirmed as of yet, it's still in the pipeline.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  22. #122


    Is it just me or River Hobbits are quite murderous?
    “ädvëntürës ärë nöt äll pönÿ-rïdës ïn mäÿ-sünshïnë.”

  23. #123
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    My guess is that they will officially confirm river-hobbits alongside the next expansion when more information becomes available for that. That would just make it consistent with how they've been introduced thus far. They probably want to avoid officially confirming or talking about them now when they're likely still a ways off. I'd be a bit surprised if they just released them out of the blue apart from the next expansion, but I suppose they could.

    It makes sense to introduce these though with the race change tokens coming, and since hobbits are now the only race without a secondary variant.

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by NeebPlayer View Post


    Is it just me or River Hobbits are quite murderous?

    This video makes me so happy, thanks for sharing
    Amorey - Bard of the Shire

  25. #125
    *just noticed this thread*

    River hobbits are coming?

    Will there be a signal? Something like one pie if they come by land, two pies if they come by river?
    They may take our lives, but they will never take our second breakfasts!
    Therina - Hobbit Guard Rongo - Hobbit Warden
    Frood - Man Minstrel Garmun - Man Captain
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    Southern Defenders - Arkenstone (formerly Elendilmir)

 

 
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