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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,297
    Quote Originally Posted by zaboch View Post
    Alright, time to explain.

    When you purposefully go out of your way to ignore a part of the game, don't expect to enjoy it's entirety. Furthermore, if you think there are people like me, for whom you're insinuating lack the same views and values, think again.

    There are plenty of us who care enough about the story as well, we don't just grind out fancy teals/golds. Hell, I've always finished raids on T1s in slower groups cause I wanted to see everything before I get tired of it and move to loot.

    So, no.
    The thing is, no one is purposefully going out of their way to ignore parts of the game. For me, it’s a time issue (raids take too long to assemble, wipe repeatedly etc.) and if I have only one or two hours playing time, then it simply can’t fit into that timescale, particularly with a PUG group. Yet many others are restricted due to a sense of elitism, which means that PUG groups won’t accept them, or perhaps they aren’t very good players, or have slower responses and so aren’t able to keep up with the demands of a raid.

    My point is, there may be some people who purposefully don’t raid because they don’t like the concept, but there are many who would, but are just restricted from doing so because they can’t access it for various reasons (even on T1), and as such miss out on the story that they’ve started in the solo quests.
    - Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
    - Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -

    Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,018
    The issue I have...

    Is that MMOs generally work in the same way that LotrO does with regards to its storytelling and then how that ties into the group content. Whilst there was some kind of 'divide' between the two in the earlier game (As the Rift was, in essence, its own stand-alone Raid), as it has progressed, from level 65 (With the exception of the level 85 raids and big battles) and onwards, the storylines have very much intertwined with group content, perhaps in an effort to push more people to group play? Who knows? Generally, you are introduced to a storyline on the landscape, introduced to a villain, and generally, you will always see the culmination of their story-line in a group-orientated setting (With some notable exceptions) because it isn't feasible that our lowly characters should be able to contend on a 1v1 basis to some of those named villains. More to the point, the landscape story is a build-up to your face-off with them.

    --

    • Mordirith - Carn Dum (Even though we know this is just an apparition).
    • Thorog - Dragon Wing of Helegrod.
    • The Watcher in the Water - The Vile Maw Raid (Yes I am aware here you encounter the Watcher in two other locations, one being outside the Walls of Moria, but even then you don't defeat it, and perhaps just barely wound it, during your second encounter with the watcher in the epic, in the past, you would have done the instance with a fellowship, now you have inspiration).
    • Gorothul - Sammath Gul
    • Durin's Bane - Fear Wing of Ost Dunhoth (As an apparition only).
    • Saruman - Tower of Orthanc Raid
    • "Gothmog*" - Throne of the Dread Terror
    • Lhaereth the Stained - The Court of Seregost (Even though this is not a culmination of her story, it is still part of it).
    • Váskmun Greytooth & The Firehorns (Formerly the Stout-Axes) - The Abyss of Mordath
    • Vethug & Hrimil the Herald of Winter - The Anvil of Winterstith

    The Five Gaunt-Lords;

    • Ivar the Blood-Hand - Garth Agarwen & the Ivar & Gortheron wing of Ost Dunhoth
    • Thadur the Ravager - The Northcotton Farm
    • Ferndur the Virulent - The Lost Temple
    • Drugoth the Death Monger - Sari-Surma
    • Gortheron the Doom-Caller - Ivar & Gortheron wing of Ost Dunhoth

    Nazguls;

    • The Lieutenant of Barad Guldur (Nazgul) - Barad Guldur Raid
    • The Black Blade of Lebennin (Nazgul) - Dome of Stars
    • The Forsaken Reaver (Nazgul) - The Quays of Harlond
    • The Gloom of Nurn (Nazgul) - Silent Street
    • The Woe of Khand and the High Sorcerer of Harad (Nazgul) - Throne of the Dread Terror

    --

    There are of course notable exceptions to the above rule (However in the majority of these cases our characters are little more than bystanders (Except in the case of Skorgrim & Mordrambor and now our final encounter with Gothmog));

    • Skorgrim - Epic Quest.
    • Mordrambor & Amarthiel - Various Epic Quests.
    • Mazog - Skirmish; The Battle in the Tower.
    • Nurzum - Epic Quest.
    • The Witch-King - Epic Quest.
    • Karazgar - Various Epic Quests (Whom we never see die, but we do see the 'culmination' of his story).
    • "Gothmog*" - Epic Quest.
    Last edited by Hephburz-2; Feb 28 2020 at 08:54 AM.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    865
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelind View Post
    Zzzz If you're too extra to join a raid, just go watch it on utube. Problem solved
    haha exactly! T1 raids are so easy that it doesn't take a huge time commitment, what the fudge? Just join a pug raid that takes 1-2hours.. If you cant commit that time, maybe find another hobby.

  4. #29
    I forgot about Nurzum! He was a really good villain and I was extremely cautious whenever he appeared. The way Wildermore told a single story, from start to finish, was excellent. The final battle could have been better but it certainly forced me to pay attention and I felt satisfied when it was over.
    Sophie the Enchantress - Creator, Dreamer, Explorer - Happy yet Sad - Seeker of Beauty and Wonder

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    Challenging for whom? The encounter would need to be completely redesigned from the ground up, complete with fantastically overpowered buffs to keep the solo player alive and able to contribute to the fight, and it's either going to be a complete cakewalk for everybody or too hard for a percentage of the players who asked for it (for example: Gothmog's Rage, which did have those buffs and still proved much too difficult for a pretty large percentage of the audience, while still managing to be too easy for the rest). The team made a really interesting and challenging battle against Shelob (and friends!), and stripping out all the challenge of that fight feels counterproductive to me: she's Shelob, very high in the pantheon of fantasy's greatest monsters, and she should be TOUGH. I do think there's an audience out there who would absolutely eat up a story-focused raiding video series, if such a thing existed, so you can still see how the story unfolds, but watering down the encounter feels like it de-fangs the experience.

    The thing is: I love Shelob. She's a major part of my very favorite section of The Lord of the Rings, and I think Shelob slinking away to an uncertain fate following Sam's heroics is a perfect conclusion to her story. Replacing Samwise the Stout-hearted with the player in a solo instance (even with your favorite Elf buddy nearby to provide sufficient cover for the question of 'How can you stand toe to horrible foot with Shelob?' doesn't make me happy. He faced her alone, and that was significant; the player, no matter how amazing (and you're all pretty amazing!) shouldn't be able to do the same. As a designer, I of course know all the counterarguments ('She was wounded!' 'You've done this before!' 'Just have her run away!' etc. etc.), but I don't find them compelling in this case. The team enjoys making solo versions of smaller group-size instances, but "make a solo raid" feels like a bridge too far. Raiding might not be for you, but then again maybe Shelob is the only villain of sufficient notoriety to get you to try it - and who knows, maybe you'd like it.

    MoL
    100% agreed. Well spoken.

    Tier 1 already exists with minimal gear requirements (often raid leaders just need you to “x”) for those wishing to experience the raid from a story telling perspective, are generally quite quick and drop some nice gear and housing items too.

    Beyond that Twitch Streams allow some form of immersion / experience of all Tiers and normally there are plenty of you tube videos out there too.
    Knight | Captain | Arkenstone

 

 
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