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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    15

    25-30ms higher Latency/ping!?

    After last patch latency/ping is 25-30ms higher than before

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
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    874
    Same for me! From 100-110ms to 140 and my friend had 130 he now have 160ms From Norway. What happen SSG?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    Same for me! From 100-110ms to 140 and my friend had 130 he now have 160ms From Norway. What happen SSG?

    Devs?


    Anyone?


    Is anyone there?


    This is a pretty big deal.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    5,014
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobotomi View Post
    After last patch latency/ping is 25-30ms higher than before
    I can tell you that from the Los Angeles area, ping has remained the same, at around 70ms to the Boston area. From the west coast, you should see 70-80ms to gls.lotro.com on average.
    My in-game ping is around 70-75ms as well, so it is basically the same.

    Typically, higher latency is not caused by servers or software patches, but by routing changes by either your ISP, their ISP, or by main backbone providers in between. It can also be caused by wifi interference locally, lousy internet service at your home, or by internet that is over-utilized, e.g. you have a few dozen seeding torrents that are saturating your upload.

    It certainly COULD be on the SSG side as well, with routing changes with the ISP they use, but it is not likely caused by changing game code and as such a patch. If your change was noted after the patch, it is more likely a coincidence and caused by a number of possibilities outlined above, but not by a software patch to the game.

    This said: I have seen in-game lag a-plenty, stuttering characters, delayed skills, rubberbanding around like a pinball in a pinball machine..... but throughout all those issues, my ping in-game, and my ping to gls.lotro.com remain rock solid. I believe that lag to be caused by server-side performance issues, but not necessarily network performance issues.

    Based on the above, there is likely some routing change that happened.... and that doesn't necessarily mean SSG has a lot of control over it. The routing changes could be done at a higher level by their ISP's for instance. Perhaps some traceroutes will tell a better story....
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    It certainly COULD be on the SSG side as well..
    Thanks for at least admitting this is a possibility.

    I feel like we're making progress.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    5,014
    My traceroute, and its explanations:

    Code:
    Tracing route to gls.lotro.com [198.252.160.30]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:
    
      1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.2.1
      2     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  (Host removed for privacy reasons, my local AT&T hub)
      3     *        *        *     Request timed out. <-- likely an edge router for my local area, probably has ICMP traffic blocked.
      4     5 ms     4 ms     5 ms  12.123.136.226
      5     3 ms     4 ms     3 ms  ggr2.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.122.128.101]
      6     4 ms     3 ms     8 ms  192.205.37.146
      7    68 ms    68 ms    68 ms  4.69.214.37
      8    69 ms    69 ms    68 ms  4.31.43.210
      9     *        *        *     Request timed out. <-- This is likely their firewall. Typically, big sites and certainly game servers block ICMP traffic. This is normal.
     10    69 ms    69 ms    68 ms  198.252.160.30
     11    68 ms    70 ms    68 ms  198.252.160.30 <-- Two of the same IP's, likely a failover/backup/loadbalancer/round-robin scenario.
    These traceroutes aren't completely reliable in determining latency issues, but they do give an insight as to how your traffic is routed to SSG's servers. Based on IP addressing, it would appear that their main backbone link is Level3/Centurylink, the 4.x IP ranges are all owned by Level3. They are typically a very good provider on the enterprise side (Level3).

    As for Europe: You SHOULD be seeing a traceroute from New Jersey/New York almost directly to Europe, probably straight to either London, Amsterdam, Paris or Frankfurt after 3 or 4 hops, and onwards to you local country from there..... if you are seeing a router to somewhere else in the USA first (e.g. Atlanta, Chicago, etc) that would be a good indication that there is a serious routing issue that needs to be resolved.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    874
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    I can tell you that from the Los Angeles area, ping has remained the same, at around 70ms to the Boston area. From the west coast, you should see 70-80ms to gls.lotro.com on average.
    My in-game ping is around 70-75ms as well, so it is basically the same.

    Typically, higher latency is not caused by servers or software patches, but by routing changes by either your ISP, their ISP, or by main backbone providers in between. It can also be caused by wifi interference locally, lousy internet service at your home, or by internet that is over-utilized, e.g. you have a few dozen seeding torrents that are saturating your upload.

    It certainly COULD be on the SSG side as well, with routing changes with the ISP they use, but it is not likely caused by changing game code and as such a patch. If your change was noted after the patch, it is more likely a coincidence and caused by a number of possibilities outlined above, but not by a software patch to the game.

    This said: I have seen in-game lag a-plenty, stuttering characters, delayed skills, rubberbanding around like a pinball in a pinball machine..... but throughout all those issues, my ping in-game, and my ping to gls.lotro.com remain rock solid. I believe that lag to be caused by server-side performance issues, but not necessarily network performance issues.

    Based on the above, there is likely some routing change that happened.... and that doesn't necessarily mean SSG has a lot of control over it. The routing changes could be done at a higher level by their ISP's for instance. Perhaps some traceroutes will tell a better story....
    Of course its something SSG is responsible of! Many players have this issue right now in-game on Evernight. I have only talked to EU players and everyone seem effected by it.. for EU players this is a big deal!! I don't want 130 ms when I had 100-110 just a few weeks ago, I also have a super fast 250mbit fiber connection.. others I have talked to have a decent broadband connection and get 160ms+ up from 130.. that is just unacceptable.

  8. #8
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    Feb 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narthalion View Post
    Thanks for at least admitting this is a possibility.

    I feel like we're making progress.
    Yes it could be. But don't focus on JUST that.... I know its tempting, just blame SSG for everything, but.... in the world of global interconnectivity, they are not likely the ones that are at fault for higher latency. I believe their lag problems are mostly based on their server configuration and the utilization of their (lacking) CPU and memory resources, not so much the traffic flow going in/out of them.

    Realistically, it is likely a routing change for some connections that SSG has little to no control over. Well, I guess their sysadmins can scream at the Level3/Centurylink sysadmins to go and bloody fix it, but they are not able to change these kinds of routes themselves.

    Increased latency doesn't seem to be a new topic either, which is why I debunked the "it's the last patch" theory..... Higher latency - especially from Europe - has been reported for some time, based on a quick post search. Likely there have been some global route changes with either Level3/Centurylink on the US side, or with some providers on the Europe side, but only traceroutes would reveal a bit more about that.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  9. #9
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    Feb 2011
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    5,014
    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    Of course its something SSG is responsible of! Many players have this issue right now in-game on Evernight. I have only talked to EU players and everyone seem effected by it.. for EU players this is a big deal!! I don't want 130 ms when I had 100-110 just a few weeks ago, I also have a super fast 250mbit fiber connection.. others I have talked to have a decent broadband connection and get 160ms+ up from 130.. that is just unacceptable.
    Instead of just blaming SSG immediately for all of your woes, perhaps you can post a traceroute of your connection to e.g. gls.lotro.com so we can see where the problem might be residing?

    I know the servers themselves have lag problems, but I don't believe that connectivity is the culprit there, rather the lack of server resources on the lotro side.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  10. #10
    before patch 120ms now its jumping between 150-155ms . cable 100mb/50mb .. evernight/ eu player

  11. #11
    17 ms here

    u jelly? there are people with less latency than that.

  12. #12
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    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narthalion View Post
    Devs? Anyone? Is anyone there? This is a pretty big deal.
    I feel *So* incredibly sorry for you folks who get your knickers bunched up over a 20ms shift in your latency, and feel so wounded by it going from something-sub-100 to something-else-sub-100.


    Most changes in ping come from routing changes, which are handled by your ISP. It's NOT anything that SSG can, in most cases, do anything about.


    They can't, for example, tell Australian ISPs to stop routing through china because it's cheaper for and they think no-one will notice... that routing change that the ISPs make, which started happening a few years back for us, made our latency go from ~170 to ~250

    These days our ping is around ~250, fluctuating to ~230 and ~275 at times.


    The game is still perfectly playable like this; the only thing it really affects is that we've got about 1/3 of a second less response time for things that need immediate attention (moving out of puddles, interrupting inductions, removing diseases, etc.), and that's managable.

    For the record:

    Code:
    Tracing route to gls.lotro.com [198.252.160.30]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:
    
      1     1 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  192.168.0.1
      2    13 ms    13 ms    13 ms  meb802.ba.optusnet.com.au [198.142.129.53]
      3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
      4     *        *        *     Request timed out.
      5    28 ms    26 ms    27 ms  mas1-hu0-4-0.ig.optusnet.com.au [198.142.249.242]
      6   175 ms   174 ms   174 ms  203.208.174.189
      7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
      8   196 ms   235 ms   190 ms  ae13.cs2.lax112.us.eth.zayo.com [64.125.27.42]
      9   183 ms   182 ms   182 ms  ae14.mpr1.lax12.us.zip.zayo.com [64.125.27.39]
     10   188 ms   187 ms   187 ms  ae7.edge2.LosAngles.Level3.net [4.68.70.33]
     11     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     12   248 ms   247 ms   247 ms  4.31.43.210
     13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     14   251 ms   247 ms   248 ms  198.252.160.30
     15   245 ms   245 ms   245 ms  198.252.160.30
    
    Trace complete.
    Yep, that's pretty stable, and unchanged from what we've come to expect here. My game reflects this as well.

    I would LOVE to have a sub-100 latency to play this game, or, really, any online game... but there's nothing SSG can do about that, and if you've experienced a sudden spike, it's most likely your ISP changing their routing subtly.
    It's also not the end of the world, if your latency is a smidge higher as a result of some ISP change - try complain to them and get it fixed if you can, but the world isn't ending and the game is not unplayable. It's not a big deal when you're dealing with latency numbers as low as you folks are generally reporting. When it gets to ~400 or more; that's when aspects of the game become unplayable.
    Rider, Fighter, Virgin, Lover; Watcher, Chaser, Bearer of Pain.
    Victim tormented, Abused and Broken; Rise from the ashes and Hunt once again.
    And Vengeance Be Thy Oath.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    108
    Quote Originally Posted by oldsneakers View Post
    17 ms here

    u jelly? there are people with less latency than that.
    How is this gonna help us, stupid post. Grats living 100 m from the servers..

  14. #14
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    Feb 2011
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    5,014
    Quote Originally Posted by oldsneakers View Post
    17 ms here

    u jelly? there are people with less latency than that.
    Of course

    If you live in the general area of New York, you will have pretty good latency with their datacenter.

    I live fairly close (about 30 miles) to a data center that has a Google DNS copy:

    Code:
    Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
    Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=56
    Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=56
    Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=56
    Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=56
    
    Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
        Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
    Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
        Minimum = 2ms, Maximum = 2ms, Average = 2ms
    But then, I also have direct fiber access to the internet, so no DOCSIS cable delays or VDSL delays that add to latency.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by HeliStorm View Post
    How is this gonna help us, stupid post. Grats living 100 m from the servers..
    Actually, 200 miles...

    the point is 17 ms is less than the 30 ms latency increase conspiracy theory

    I will be experiencing high latency soon. 90% I will be moving to a remote location in the Australian outback in a few months. It is about as far from the servers as one can get. It will be interesting to see how the game responds.

  16. #16
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    Feb 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harla View Post
    I would LOVE to have a sub-100 latency to play this game, or, really, any online game... but there's nothing SSG can do about that, and if you've experienced a sudden spike, it's most likely your ISP changing their routing subtly.
    It's also not the end of the world, if your latency is a smidge higher as a result of some ISP change - try complain to them and get it fixed if you can, but the world isn't ending and the game is not unplayable. It's not a big deal when you're dealing with latency numbers as low as you folks are generally reporting. When it gets to ~400 or more; that's when aspects of the game become unplayable.
    Yeah, people in Australia are generally shafted when it comes to latency, unless there are local servers *IN* Australia. If not, it will mean connecting to the USA, Europe, or if you are lucky to Korea, Hong Kong or Singapore if a game is big enough to have a local Asian data center location. You might be able to get sub-100 to a datacenter in Singapore if talking outside of Australia, but maybe only if you are in Darwin.

    (Note: I know exactly where that zayo hop is @ lax, I am in that building from time to time.)

    I do agree though, a jump from 130 to 160 is certainly annoying, but it isn't game breaking. I think the majority of lag problems that SSG is dealing with have nothing to do with connectivity but with server resources.

    That said though.... If people do want this addressed, the only way we can have SOME sort of idea what is going on with connections to Europe, is when European players start posting accurate traceroutes. SSG might be able to invoke their enterprise support with their ISP and have them adjust some routing (or push it up the chain to the backbone provider), but if asked who is experiencing latency problems the answer "here have these traceroutes posted by our European players" is going to have a LOT more success as opposed to "well people from Europe have complained but we don't know exactly which routes they are using..."
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Harla View Post
    I feel *So* incredibly sorry for you folks who get your knickers bunched up ..

    Please keep away from my knickers. I consider it part of my personal space.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    Instead of just blaming SSG immediately for all of your woes...

    Don't be silly, we don't blame SSG for ALL of our woes.

    Like the time in second grade when I was trying to skateboard on the sidewalk down a steep hill and somehow the neighbors mailbox appeared right in front of me! I certainly don't blame SSG for that "woe".

    Hmmmm...but now that I think about it....

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    UK
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    Another Evernight user here, in the UK.

    My ping is usually in the 85-95 range, now suddenly it is never less than 107mS.

    My ISP HAS recently finished implementing full IPv6 across their network; but I doubt this is true of all the other Evernight users reporting a similar jump in ping.

  20. #20
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    Feb 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    Another Evernight user here, in the UK.

    My ping is usually in the 85-95 range, now suddenly it is never less than 107mS.

    My ISP HAS recently finished implementing full IPv6 across their network; but I doubt this is true of all the other Evernight users reporting a similar jump in ping.
    IPv6 has nothing to do with it because Lotro does not utilize IPv6....

    Again, the only way we are going to be able to figure out anything is when players post their trace routes... until then, this thread is a moot point.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    Again, the only way we are going to be able to figure out anything is when players post their trace routes...


    OR, a Dev from this very game might actually post here, and explain what might have taken place to cause this latest phenomenon.



    (very long pause)



    Please stop laughing, everyone....I know the chances of that happening are slight, but it MIGHT happen...someday
    ...maybe
    ...probably not
    ...oh well.

  22. #22

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    IPv6 has nothing to do with it because Lotro does not utilize IPv6....

    Again, the only way we are going to be able to figure out anything is when players post their trace routes... until then, this thread is a moot point.
    Are you saying that SSG can't monitor the ping from EU? Also it's the same issue for UK/Swedish/Danish/Norwegian players..

    Either way I would like to do it if you tell me how.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    IPv6 has nothing to do with it because Lotro does not utilize IPv6....

    Again, the only way we are going to be able to figure out anything is when players post their trace routes... until then, this thread is a moot point.
    On fiber from the Netherlands: pings used to be 90-ish, now a little over 100 msec.

    Trace:

    Tracing route to gls.lotro.com [198.252.160.30]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms Vigor.router [192.168.1.1]
    2 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms xxxx.ftth.glasoperator.nl [xxxx]
    3 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 10.10.10.253
    4 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms ae24-xcr1.amt.cw.net [195.89.97.129]
    5 84 ms 83 ms 83 ms ae9-xcr1.amd.cw.net [195.2.2.194]
    6 83 ms 83 ms 83 ms ae6-xcr1.slo.cw.net [195.2.24.65]
    7 83 ms 84 ms 83 ms ae2-xcr1.nyh.cw.net [195.2.28.169]
    8 82 ms 83 ms 82 ms ae30-xcr2.nyk.cw.net [195.2.16.134]
    9 83 ms 82 ms 84 ms nyk-b6-link.telia.net [213.248.100.45]
    10 83 ms 83 ms 83 ms lag-13.ear2.newyork6.level3.net [4.68.74.169]
    11 * 128 ms 128 ms 4.69.214.37
    12 92 ms 92 ms 93 ms 4.31.43.210
    13 * * * Request timed out.
    14 93 ms 93 ms 93 ms 198.252.160.30
    15 93 ms 93 ms 93 ms 198.252.160.30

    Not sure what you would learn from that, I don't have anything to compare it with myself.
    I do know it is different from the last time I did this, because I certainly would have remembered that 'lag-13' on hop 10

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    Are you saying that SSG can't monitor the ping from EU? Also it's the same issue for UK/Swedish/Danish/Norwegian players..

    Either way I would like to do it if you tell me how.
    Indeed, they can't monitor the ping from EU. Unless they actually ping from the EU, of course.

 

 
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