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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narthalion View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    It certainly COULD be on the SSG side as well..
    Thanks for at least admitting this is a possibility.

    I feel like we're making progress.
    That definetly deserves some rolling eyes.



    I guess it's always something.

    Progress ??? Naaa. It's Your ISP, Your PC, Your socks, the food You eat, the weather at Your end, Your haircut, that time of year, the colour of Your shirt. Take Your pick, but it definetly is not, I repeat again NOT on SSG side. That is why other web-sites and games runs alot smoother, but not LoTRO. Simply because of Your socks.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narthalion View Post
    OR, a Dev from this very game might actually post here, and explain what might have taken place to cause this latest phenomenon.
    A game developer is not a network technician. As soon as the internet routes leave their firewall, they really have absolutely NO information. They can either do a trace route to YOU, to see if there is a route problem, or you can provide a trace route to THEM. I don't think you quite understand how internet routing works..... but as an analogy, when you hand your package to the mailman and you get a tracking number.... it is out of your hands. You can track where the package goes until it reaches its destination, but there is nothing or very little you can do on how the package gets there. The person receiving the package might not have a tracking number at all, and will just need to wait till it shows up. That's the information SSG has when it comes to the route internet packets take between your endpoint, and the SSG firewall, which is basically your post box and their post box.

    Developers won't know anything about internet routes, they can't magically conjure up information on whether packets to game clients go via Atlanta, via Iceland, via London or Frankfurt to get to you. Some customers on some ISP's might have much better routes, others might have lousy routing. But without information to give their ISP to see if they can make some route adjustments, there really isn't anything they can do.

    Again, as long as players aren't willing to step up and provide some of this information.... this topic is a complete waste of time for everyone involved. If you DO post traceroutes, I would also recommend posting those into a ticket to SSG, if they get enough of them they may be able to contact their ISP and see if they can make some changes.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by OghranNasty View Post
    On fiber from the Netherlands: pings used to be 90-ish, now a little over 100 msec.

    Trace:

    Tracing route to gls.lotro.com [198.252.160.30]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms Vigor.router [192.168.1.1]
    2 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms xxxx.ftth.glasoperator.nl [xxxx]
    3 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 10.10.10.253
    4 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms ae24-xcr1.amt.cw.net [195.89.97.129]
    5 84 ms 83 ms 83 ms ae9-xcr1.amd.cw.net [195.2.2.194]
    6 83 ms 83 ms 83 ms ae6-xcr1.slo.cw.net [195.2.24.65]
    7 83 ms 84 ms 83 ms ae2-xcr1.nyh.cw.net [195.2.28.169]
    8 82 ms 83 ms 82 ms ae30-xcr2.nyk.cw.net [195.2.16.134]
    9 83 ms 82 ms 84 ms nyk-b6-link.telia.net [213.248.100.45]
    10 83 ms 83 ms 83 ms lag-13.ear2.newyork6.level3.net [4.68.74.169]
    11 * 128 ms 128 ms 4.69.214.37
    12 92 ms 92 ms 93 ms 4.31.43.210
    13 * * * Request timed out.
    14 93 ms 93 ms 93 ms 198.252.160.30
    15 93 ms 93 ms 93 ms 198.252.160.30

    Not sure what you would learn from that, I don't have anything to compare it with myself.
    I do know it is different from the last time I did this, because I certainly would have remembered that 'lag-13' on hop 10
    Now we are getting somewhere.

    Your route seems to be going to the UK (Through Swedish operator Telia), and then on to New York (Still through Telia, arriving at one of their PoP's) where it hops on a Level 3 host in New York. The most interesting change here is actually hop 11. I would expect that once you are in New York, it would take less than 3 ms to get to the data center in New Jersey. Barring that ICMP traffic might be de-prioritized on hop 11 - causing the 128ms ping on it, which is best ignored - the most interesting thing is that the latency increases by 10 ms between hop 10 and 12.... Now I don't know the exact address of the datacenter, but it seems that a jump from 83ms to 93 ms within the same city limits is quite high. You would expect that on a first hop from a residential provider (especially if it is DOCSIS/DSL based copper), but not on a major internet interchange. That could indicate some sort of routing issue.

    Your traffic is already on Level3's network at this point, and it changes from one Level3 link to another. In order to investigate this, SSG would need to contact their ISP of Centurylink (which owns Level3) and have them do some investigation.

    Note: game lag is always a little higher than network lag, but it should not be more than about 10ms at most....So if your in-game lag is around or slightly above 100ms, the trace of 93ms would seem correct, or "in the ballpark" as Americans would say.

    Also, "lag-13" in a network route name is indeed a funny coincidence!
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Funk View Post
    That definetly deserves some rolling eyes.

    Progress ??? Naaa. It's Your ISP, Your PC, Your socks, the food You eat, the weather at Your end, Your haircut, that time of year, the colour of Your shirt. Take Your pick, but it definetly is not, I repeat again NOT on SSG side. That is why other web-sites and games runs alot smoother, but not LoTRO. Simply because of Your socks.

    lol Exactly!!

    You have now received my official nomination for "Post of the Week"...well played, sir!

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord.Funk View Post
    That definetly deserves some rolling eyes.
    I guess it's always something.

    Progress ??? Naaa. It's Your ISP, Your PC, Your socks, the food You eat, the weather at Your end, Your haircut, that time of year, the colour of Your shirt. Take Your pick, but it definetly is not, I repeat again NOT on SSG side. That is why other web-sites and games runs alot smoother, but not LoTRO. Simply because of Your socks.
    I know you are probably just trolling a bit in this case, but just in case you aren't..... perhaps it is time to read up on how internet routing works. What people basically say is that when you order a package from a major retailer, and it gets lost on the way to you.... that it is the retailer's fault. The retailer - let's call the retailer "SSG" in this case - simply gives the package to a mail carrier company, and they need to get it to you. Without tracking information though, there really isn't much else they can do then to just re-send you another package and see if it arrives this time.

    What happens between them (the retailer) and you (the receiver of the package) is the mail carrier's responsibility. Neither them or you are at fault, but the only way to correct it is to have some clue what happens to packages on the way to their destination. The "mail carrier" in the case of Lotro Servers and Lotro Clients is a series of (international) ISP's, starting with Centurylink/Level3 on the SSG side in the general New York area, and where it goes on the hop after that..... could be vastly different depending on where the Lotro client lives on the internet.

    It's fine that you don't understand how this all works, even as someone in the business I know internet routing is a delicate, complicated thing where things can change, fail, and be mis-configured - sometimes up to years because no one notices the traffic gets where it is supposed to go, only not via its optimal route. It's a complicated mess of spaghetti, and it is quite amazing that it actually all works on a worldwide level.

    And SSG is certainly not the only game that suffers from latency problems, far from it. But in those cases the same principle applies: Without any information as to how traffic gets to and from their datacenters, they really don't have anything to push forward to their ISP's. So people are completely free to just blame game developers working in game code for network problems that SSG really can't do much about..... OR they can open up tickets with routing/trace information so they can see WHERE it goes wrong, and hopefully have a chat about it with a system engineer from Level3/Centurylink.

    Besides that.... you can roll your eyes all you want, but it doesn't help anyone. But it may give you that warm and fuzzy feeling that you blamed someone.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    But it may give you that warm and fuzzy feeling that you blamed someone.

    Hmmmmmm...

    Have you ever finished typing a sentence and then thought, "Hey, these words apply more to me than the person I'm sending it to...I better not post it."?



    Just curious.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    I know you are probably just trolling a bit in this case, but just in case you aren't..... perhaps it is time to read up on how internet routing works. What people basically say is that when you order a package from a major retailer, and it gets lost on the way to you.... that it is the retailer's fault. The retailer - let's call the retailer "SSG" in this case - simply gives the package to a mail carrier company, and they need to get it to you. Without tracking information though, there really isn't much else they can do then to just re-send you another package and see if it arrives this time.

    What happens between them (the retailer) and you (the receiver of the package) is the mail carrier's responsibility. Neither them or you are at fault, but the only way to correct it is to have some clue what happens to packages on the way to their destination. The "mail carrier" in the case of Lotro Servers and Lotro Clients is a series of (international) ISP's, starting with Centurylink/Level3 on the SSG side in the general New York area, and where it goes on the hop after that..... could be vastly different depending on where the Lotro client lives on the internet.

    It's fine that you don't understand how this all works, even as someone in the business I know internet routing is a delicate, complicated thing where things can change, fail, and be mis-configured - sometimes up to years because no one notices the traffic gets where it is supposed to go, only not via its optimal route. It's a complicated mess of spaghetti, and it is quite amazing that it actually all works on a worldwide level.

    And SSG is certainly not the only game that suffers from latency problems, far from it. But in those cases the same principle applies: Without any information as to how traffic gets to and from their datacenters, they really don't have anything to push forward to their ISP's. So people are completely free to just blame game developers working in game code for network problems that SSG really can't do much about..... OR they can open up tickets with routing/trace information so they can see WHERE it goes wrong, and hopefully have a chat about it with a system engineer from Level3/Centurylink.

    Besides that.... you can roll your eyes all you want, but it doesn't help anyone. But it may give you that warm and fuzzy feeling that you blamed someone.
    You don't help anyone here either? Are you an SSG employee ? Let SSG respond to what happen, your assumptions are just confusing the situation further lol.. This happen to everyone after a recent update/server restart. Let SSG respond to this rather than you trying to explain how things work. For some people 25-30MS is a big deal, some might even quit over it. And half the population are EU players.

    All you do currently is derail the thread, if you could stop getting into arguments with everyone lol. Why do you feel the need to convince players that there is nothing SSG can do about it?? That might be the case, but then again let them respond.. because there is no way you can be sure of that.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    You don't help anyone here either? Are you an SSG employee ? Let SSG respond to what happen, your assumptions are just confusing the situation further lol.. This happen to everyone after a recent update/server restart. Let SSG respond to this rather than you trying to explain how things work. As I said, for some people 25-30MS is a big deal, some might even quit over it. And half the population are EU players.
    SSG is not going to respond to things that are beyond their control. These increased latency problems aren't caused by game code, they are caused by the route internet traffic takes to/from the SSG datacenter. People have been complaining about this for quite some time, but without information that SSG can send on to their ISP, there really isn't anything they can do. And there is only one source where that information can come from: Their gaming customers.

    You want to solve this? Post traceroutes. SSG DOES read the forums, and may be able to forward those traceroutes to their ISP for clarification or route fixing. But without such information, it will be easier to find that one needle in the many haystacks of the shire.
    Don't want to do that here? Post them to a ticket to SSG so they can forward them to their ISP.

    My guess? Their ISP Level3/Centurylink made routing changes between North America and Europe. From the one trace route posted, it might indicate an issue on Level3's network in New York, however the issue might also be where Telia, the Swedish network operator Level3 seems to peer with for certain routes connects on the US side.

    If my input on network routes isn't appreciated, and you rather just continue slinging mud to game coders... fine, i'll shut up and you guys can just sit here and twiddle your thumbs until a game code developer will answer network routing questions. The only thing I have been trying to do is help here, but it seems people are more interested to blame international internet routing problems on a bunch of game coders. If you really think SSG game developers are going to respond to issues that are beyond their control, I've got a bridge to sell you.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    SSG is not going to respond to things that are beyond their control. These increased latency problems aren't caused by game code, they are caused by the route internet traffic takes to/from the SSG datacenter. People have been complaining about this for quite some time, but without information that SSG can send on to their ISP, there really isn't anything they can do. And there is only one source where that information can come from: Their gaming customers.

    You want to solve this? Post traceroutes. SSG DOES read the forums, and may be able to forward those traceroutes to their ISP for clarification or route fixing. But without such information, it will be easier to find that one needle in the many haystacks of the shire.
    Don't want to do that here? Post them to a ticket to SSG so they can forward them to their ISP.

    My guess? Their ISP Level3/Centurylink made routing changes between North America and Europe. From the one trace route posted, it might indicate an issue on Level3's network in New York, however the issue might also be where Telia, the Swedish network operator Level3 seems to peer with for certain routes connects on the US side.

    If my input on network routes isn't appreciated, and you rather just continue slinging mud to game coders... fine, i'll shut up and you guys can just sit here and twiddle your thumbs until a game code developer will answer network routing questions. The only thing I have been trying to do is help here, but it seems people are more interested to blame international internet routing problems on a bunch of game coders. If you really think SSG game developers are going to respond to issues that are beyond their control, I've got a bridge to sell you.
    And you keep going lol..

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    And you keep going lol..
    At least I am adding some constructive information to this thread. A number of people seem only interested in blaming international internet routing on SSG, without willing to look at how the internet is actually built, and what other things might be causing it. If that is the case, so be it. My help is not appreciated in trying to resolve the 30ms detour on the internet..... so hey, hopefully the game code developers can magically remove those 30ms in the next patch!

    Good luck, I'll bow out, network/internet routing help is apparently not appreciated when it's easier to blame game code.
    Last edited by maartena; Feb 18 2020 at 12:47 PM.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  11. #36
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    it's awesome how someone with actual knowledge posts in the thread, albeit not a LOTRO dev (they probably wouldn't know either), then is trolled when said knowledge doesn't fit the troll's narrative.

    great job!
    The Lover®: So suave. So cool. So debonair. So smooth.

    This is CYAN. This is TEAL. Know the difference.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    You don't help anyone here either? Are you an SSG employee ? Let SSG respond to what happen, your assumptions are just confusing the situation further lol.. This happen to everyone after a recent update/server restart. Let SSG respond to this rather than you trying to explain how things work. For some people 25-30MS is a big deal, some might even quit over it. And half the population are EU players.

    All you do currently is derail the thread, if you could stop getting into arguments with everyone lol. Why do you feel the need to convince players that there is nothing SSG can do about it?? That might be the case, but then again let them respond.. because there is no way you can be sure of that.
    Actually, he is providing largely factual information, more than most in this thread, and provides an analysis that sounds sensible to an IT guy like myself.
    Not sure how that can derail a thread, unless the goal of the thread is only to blame the lag on network latency and scream at SSG about it. In that case: name your thread accordingly.

    In the meantime, methinks it is most productive to try and find out where the problem comes from. Some more traces could help to find out if there is a pattern there.

    Network latency certainly doesn't help with lag, and ideally you want as little as possible of it, but it is but a piece in a surprisingly complicated puzzle. I had really smooth gameplay (quite a while back sadly, the first couple of months after release of the 64-bit client were good) and unplayable lag, all with a latency around 90 ms. Surprising, actually, how well the game can play with that high a latency. That is not to say that network latency isn't contributing to lag, only that it isn't as much as you might think.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by OghranNasty View Post
    Actually, he is providing largely factual information, more than most in this thread, and provides an analysis that sounds sensible to an IT guy like myself.
    Not sure how that can derail a thread, unless the goal of the thread is only to blame the lag on network latency and scream at SSG about it. In that case: name your thread accordingly.

    In the meantime, methinks it is most productive to try and find out where the problem comes from. Some more traces could help to find out if there is a pattern there.

    Network latency certainly doesn't help with lag, and ideally you want as little as possible of it, but it is but a piece in a surprisingly complicated puzzle. I had really smooth gameplay (quite a while back sadly, the first couple of months after release of the 64-bit client were good) and unplayable lag, all with a latency around 90 ms. Surprising, actually, how well the game can play with that high a latency. That is not to say that network latency isn't contributing to lag, only that it isn't as much as you might think.
    If he is constantly saying this is nothing SSG can fix, then he is not trying to solve the issue? How come that so many people had this issue after the latest update/downtime? How come the issue appeared at the same time in different countries ? Why are we not having this issues in other games ? I mean if SSG cant maintain the "decent" connection we had, maybe they should buy servers in europe, there are always solutions?

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by LotroVidz View Post
    If he is constantly saying this is nothing SSG can fix, then he is not trying to solve the issue? How come that so many people had this issue after the latest update/downtime? How come the issue appeared at the same time in different countries ? Why are we not having this issues in other games ? I mean if SSG cant maintain the "decent" connection we had, maybe they should buy servers in europe, there are always solutions?
    He is saying this might be something SSG can't fix, and unless we understand where the problem lies we won't know whether that is true or not.
    Fact is, well over 99% of the internet is not under SSG control. If some weirdness happens between you and their ISP I don't see what they could do. It would be useful to find out if that is the case or not. Chasing away a professional in the matter (I suspect) isn't going to help with that.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    I know you are probably just trolling a bit in this case, but just in case you aren't..... perhaps it is time to read up on how internet routing works. What people basically say is that when you order a package from a major retailer, and it gets lost on the way to you.... that it is the retailer's fault. The retailer - let's call the retailer "SSG" in this case - simply gives the package to a mail carrier company, and they need to get it to you. Without tracking information though, there really isn't much else they can do then to just re-send you another package and see if it arrives this time.

    What happens between them (the retailer) and you (the receiver of the package) is the mail carrier's responsibility. Neither them or you are at fault, but the only way to correct it is to have some clue what happens to packages on the way to their destination. The "mail carrier" in the case of Lotro Servers and Lotro Clients is a series of (international) ISP's, starting with Centurylink/Level3 on the SSG side in the general New York area, and where it goes on the hop after that..... could be vastly different depending on where the Lotro client lives on the internet.

    It's fine that you don't understand how this all works, even as someone in the business I know internet routing is a delicate, complicated thing where things can change, fail, and be mis-configured - sometimes up to years because no one notices the traffic gets where it is supposed to go, only not via its optimal route. It's a complicated mess of spaghetti, and it is quite amazing that it actually all works on a worldwide level.

    And SSG is certainly not the only game that suffers from latency problems, far from it. But in those cases the same principle applies: Without any information as to how traffic gets to and from their datacenters, they really don't have anything to push forward to their ISP's. So people are completely free to just blame game developers working in game code for network problems that SSG really can't do much about..... OR they can open up tickets with routing/trace information so they can see WHERE it goes wrong, and hopefully have a chat about it with a system engineer from Level3/Centurylink.

    Besides that.... you can roll your eyes all you want, but it doesn't help anyone. But it may give you that warm and fuzzy feeling that you blamed someone.
    Yes, of course I was joking, not trolling, but joking.

    All that is totally fine and correct, but it is of little intertest to most customers.

    As a comparison, if I open a car dealer in a remote location, say I even have the most modern facilities, modern design, all is tip-tip shape on my end, but I place it in remote location where the roads are snowed in or flooded half the year and it's a long slow ride to get there on bumpy roads etc, then it isn't the customers responsibility to figure out why I get so few visitors. They can point it out, but I am the one having to realize that maybe I need to move my facility to a more accessible place with roads that are open 24/7 with parking space and easy access. Or another example. Say I make a party at a nighclub. I manage to even market it well, sell alot of tickets, then the line/queue is so badly handled that it takes hours to get in even with a pre-paid ticket. Trust me the customers won't care if i give 10 explanations as to why, they will just be angry and not come the next time, but go to another party. I lose customers.

    As for LoTRO, trace routers etc. That is all fine too. We have acctually provided that dating back over a decade now. I have done it many times too. Plenty of threads. Going back to when European servers where moved to US (as far as us european players are concerned, propably further back than that) and it hasn't gotten any better, in fact worse over the years. We have provided tons of tracerts with details and such. Still no improvement. At the same time we play other games that runs smooth in comparison. Yes even old games. If Boston is some internet black hole then maybe it's time to realize that they must physically move the servers. If it's Cloud integrated server solutions creating the issues then maybe it's time to realize that the technology and infrastructure can not handle that satisfactory yet and go back to purely physiacl servers infrastucture. If they cheaped out on eithere cloud solution or cheaped out in physical parts, bandwith, server location etc, then maybe it's time to invest in better stuff.

    It is clear that that very few other similar online (mmo rpg) games suffer all these issues. Yes all games have some issues at times, but LoTRO have them all and in abundance very often. That can not be a coincident. Figuring out what the problem is and solve it lies on the company, not on the cutomers. You don't need to be a mechanic to buy a car and drive it. If it breaks You take it to a repair shop and they fix it.

    Yes, I can sympathize or empathize with the devs and I do. I can sympathize or empathize with SSG engineers and I do. There are plenty of the saff of SSG that I like alot. Still non of that will matter or help the game flourish.

    I have friends whom I have tried to get to return to LoTRO. Some come as far as trying to install the game then run into issues and just give up. I try to provide help, but many gives up anyway, as they can't be bothered. They want to simply install and click and play the game. Simple as that. Not have to install different ecxtra programs in specific order, copy other peoples LoTRO files from LoTRO directory to get iot to run etc. Then if they get past all that they suffer lag and freezes etc. Then they give up. Others give up just searching info and realize the trouble others have and don't even bother at all. This isn't the late 90's or even early 2000's. It's 2020 and plenty of competition and games out there. Most people won't go through all these issues just to play one game. That is the sad reality of it all.

    I want this game to flourish and the first step to get people to play is to be able to even install it. After that to get it to run without all these issues with freezes and lag etc. SSG should have plenty of info collected over the years now on what is causing the issues epcifically with having it located in Boston and know what to do about it by now. It shouldn't take decade to figue that out. It doesn't matter how much I like staff members or sympathize with them. Most customers don't care. If they have issue they go elsewhere. Only the most loyal and hardcore LoTRO players suffer through all this and there might not be enough of us to support the game financially. We need it to be easily accessible and run smooth. Not come up with 10 excuses why it's not SSG problem to solve or our ISP's or our PC's etc.

  16. #41
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    sorry for asking reason why my ping is now 25% higher than before patch . and im eu player/evernight . scandinavia area.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by OghranNasty View Post
    Actually, he is providing largely factual information, more than most in this thread,

    You're guessing.

    He's guessing.

    I'm guessing.

    We're all guessing.

    Which is why it would be nice for someone from SSG to hop on the forums and say, "We're aware of the recent worsening of performance that's affecting many of you, and we've dug into it. We've discovered that it might be/is/is not being caused by changes we've made. And if it is us, we're working on a fix. Thanks for playing."

  18. #43
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    Thumbs down

    All we have are broken promises... For example the distinct lie from Vyvyanne about moving servers back to Europe to improve the situation for EU players. Instead we were treated with a permanent relocation to a New Jersey datacenter which made the situation actually worse. Next week it will be 4 years after this debacle and despite all 'technological improvements' the situation did not improve. Then again, a quick google search tells you alot about network latency and why ping for EU can never improve as long as we have to cross the Atlantic. So how about Legendary Servers 2.0? Located in Amsterdam? Many EU ppl currently freeloading would gladly subscribe for that i reckon. I know I would!

    An actual paragraph in the upcoming Producer's Letter on the stability and playability of the game and possible improvement plans would also be nice for a change.


    Feb 23 2016, 05:29 PM
    ew#1

    Vyvyanne
    Executive Producer



    Join DateApr 2007Posts473


    Data Center Update


    Dear Players,
    Now that we have been in the new datacenter in New Jersey on the new hardware for several weeks now, we have learned a lot about how our service works with domestic and international ISPs. Early efforts at tuning have been showing progress, leading to measurable improvement in latency for both US and EU players. Based on this early information we believe that players will be best served by us focusing on improvements to the new datacenter, rather than moving the EU servers to Amsterdam.

    Going forward we’ll continue to work on with the technology team at our datacenter as well as key regional ISPs to improve the performance of LOTRO for all players worldwide. The next step of this process will have us on a new routing system in the next few weeks. This is expected to improve performance for players in much of the EU, and certain parts of North America as well.

    For those players experiencing issues in PvMP we are adding in client side optimizations with Update 18 that we hope will lessen the strain on client and server alike when in battles with large groups. We are also looking into the cause of client crashes when traveling and changing instances. We will continue to optimize the configurations of our servers to improve service stability. These efforts will not be over night, but should improve the situation over time so that your play experience will be even better than it was prior to the move.

    Once again we thank you for your patience and understanding while we work through this construction.
    Thank you,
    Athena “Vyvyanne” Peters”




    Patience is a virtue. Sadly we lost her a long, long time ago... Others we lost I couldn't care less about! ^^

    On topic: my latency in game remained unchanged after the update last week; the skill lag and bouncing around while doing the Nine last night was horrible again. As usual.


  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Narthalion View Post
    You're guessing.

    He's guessing.

    I'm guessing.

    We're all guessing.

    Which is why it would be nice for someone from SSG to hop on the forums and say, "We're aware of the recent worsening of performance that's affecting many of you, and we've dug into it. We've discovered that it might be/is/is not being caused by changes we've made. And if it is us, we're working on a fix. Thanks for playing."
    Fully agreed.

    In the sad absence of that, we still have a choice. We could try to figure out the problem and present SSG with an argument they couldn't ignore, or let this slide into another 'SSG sucks, they can't even fix this' thread. Those seem to be more popular and less helpful to me.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by OghranNasty View Post
    We could try to figure out the problem and present SSG with an argument they couldn't ignore,

    Glad we agree.

    But please remember to never underestimate the ability of SSG to ignore a logical "argument"...no matter HOW strong the evidence/logic/reasoning is in favor of it. If this sounds snarky, perhaps it is. But it's also based on a great deal of past history.

    Take care.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Narthalion View Post
    Glad we agree.

    But please remember to never underestimate the ability of SSG to ignore a logical "argument"...no matter HOW strong the evidence/logic/reasoning is in favor of it. If this sounds snarky, perhaps it is. But it's also based on a great deal of past history.

    Take care.
    Ye ...

    Standard response to performance issues is ignore, with precious few exceptions. Still, that doesn't prevent a proper hobbit to try, so here goes:

    Could we have some more traces please, with a rough mention of location. Blank out your own IP address please.

    So far, we've seen 3 traces. A great one from lucky maartena from near NY, a disastrous one from Harla (who, btw makes some very sensible comments), and a medium-but-weird one from me. That is not a lot to go on.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimdoin_EU View Post
    All we have are broken promises... For example the distinct lie from Vyvyanne about moving servers back to Europe to improve the situation for EU players. Instead we were treated with a permanent relocation to a New Jersey datacenter which made the situation actually worse. Next week it will be 4 years after this debacle and despite all 'technological improvements' the situation did not improve. Then again, a quick google search tells you alot about network latency and why ping for EU can never improve as long as we have to cross the Atlantic. So how about Legendary Servers 2.0? Located in Amsterdam? Many EU ppl currently freeloading would gladly subscribe for that i reckon. I know I would!

    An actual paragraph in the upcoming Producer's Letter on the stability and playability of the game and possible improvement plans would also be nice for a change.

    < Insert marketing blah here>

    Patience is a virtue. Sadly we lost her a long, long time ago... Others we lost I couldn't care less about! ^^

    On topic: my latency in game remained unchanged after the update last week; the skill lag and bouncing around while doing the Nine last night was horrible again. As usual.
    Ah, yes, Vyvyanne ...

    The producer who oversaw not only the server merge, but also the datacenter move and the Minas Ithil release tragedies. In her shoes, I'd be surprised to have lasted that long. Good riddance.
    Credit where it is due: she did interact with the community, something the current producer doesn't seem to prioritize ...

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    5,014
    Quote Originally Posted by OghranNasty View Post
    A great one from lucky maartena from near NY
    FYI, I am near Los Angeles, and my ping is in the 70ms-80ms range, typically 70ms.
    The person with a 17ms ping to the servers is someone else.... but he didn't have a -13ms ping before, so the 30ms extra that players are reporting couldn't really have come from the SSG datacenter, unless he was able to break all sorts of impossible physics barriers, receiving data before it was sent!

    But, as people rather continue to blame the SSG game developers and their code rather than looking at possible network routing issues.... I'll still stay out of further commenting. I just wanted to correct that I am not in NY, rather in Los Angeles general area.

    I'll await that magic game code patch that will shave off 30ms, and give that person with current 17ms ping that flux-capacitor-overloading -13ms.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    Good luck, I'll bow out, network/internet routing help is apparently not appreciated when it's easier to blame game code.
    Don't be bothered by the angry mob

    Here, take a look in this apparently strange route:

    Code:
    Rastreando a rota para gls.lotro.com [198.252.160.30]
    com no máximo 30 saltos:
    
      1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.25.1
      2    19 ms    18 ms    18 ms  gvt-b-se01.soo.gvt.net.br [187.115.211.206]
      3    19 ms    18 ms    18 ms  177.205.10.121.static.adsl.gvt.net.br [177.205.10.121]
      4    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  152-255-128-32.user.vivozap.com.br [152.255.128.32]
      5    30 ms    30 ms    31 ms  152-255-140-51.user.vivozap.com.br [152.255.140.51]
      6    33 ms    32 ms    32 ms  213.99.17.212
      7   141 ms   143 ms   148 ms  5.53.5.99
      8   148 ms   147 ms   147 ms  5.53.3.243
      9     *        *      156 ms  94.142.107.27
     10     *        *      178 ms  4.69.214.37
     11   178 ms   179 ms   178 ms  4.31.43.210
     12     *        *        *     Esgotado o tempo limite do pedido.
     13   190 ms   190 ms   190 ms  198.252.160.30
     14   191 ms   190 ms   192 ms  198.252.160.30
    
    Rastreamento concluído.
    hop 7 have a IP from Spain, but I'm in Brazil. Although a high latency, if it was really crossing the Atlantic - twice - would be more high, I think. Considering my internet provider is Telefonica, they can use a IP range from one country in another?



    Cheers o/
    - Landroval
    scharf | celegurth | hadordelu | istadelw | laerorthadan | gelluist | ristatin

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    FYI, I am near Los Angeles, and my ping is in the 70ms-80ms range, typically 70ms.
    The person with a 17ms ping to the servers is someone else.... but he didn't have a -13ms ping before, so the 30ms extra that players are reporting couldn't really have come from the SSG datacenter, unless he was able to break all sorts of impossible physics barriers, receiving data before it was sent!

    But, as people rather continue to blame the SSG game developers and their code rather than looking at possible network routing issues.... I'll still stay out of further commenting. I just wanted to correct that I am not in NY, rather in Los Angeles general area.

    I'll await that magic game code patch that will shave off 30ms, and give that person with current 17ms ping that flux-capacitor-overloading -13ms.
    I blame SSG for the fact that I moved my wireless router into another room and it added 7 ms to my latency! *shakesfist*

 

 
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