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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    Unfortunately, I really don't think this set bonus will be powerful, at least not as powerful as it was. It was the best set bonus back when blue line was king, because literally 80% of the skills you were doing were focus skills and even then, if you were really unlucky you still didn't see many HS resets. And in Red line... You do pen shot once every 10s for the buff, blood arrow when its up, maybe Exsanguinate if you trait for it, and Upshot every 20s(?), nothing compared to the blue line focus consumption, which means, I don't see this proc'ing hardly as much as it used to.

    That is why its better center the set around a deduction in the skills overall cooldown same with upshot because in practice heart seeker will reset between 20-30 seconds always from critical hits alone if they reduced the cd to 1 minute i imagine 15-20 seconds on average reset time which will increase the class damage.

    Also let it noted the Heart seeker seeker set doesnt work the same as 105 its like a 10% chance on focus skills and more than often by time it will proc heart seeker would have like 20ish seconds left anyway resulting in essentially a wasted proc. In my opinion from what i observed using it at 115 120 it always reset at a horrible time after msot the cooldown been burned down from crits.



    there should honestly be 3-4 upshots every twenty seconds btw im not sure where you get 1 from aswell

  2. #127
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    it truly is the point because if imagine a developer who never played the class hear dyou speak like that and they believed it do you understand how dangerous that is?

    i dont think calling a set bonus is op is derailing or you should also go and call every1 who request burg set bonus not be implemented derailers aswell.


    we have a right on this thread to argue what bonus we feel are good bad which are op and to weak.




    But aside that now you realize thats not how hunter rotation works do you support my proposed set? or do you have another bonus which may be good?
    Last edited by mikkye; Feb 18 2020 at 01:29 PM.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikkye View Post
    But aside that now you realize thats not how hunter rotation works do you support my proposed set? or do you have another bonus which may be good?
    I don't main Hunter or play it enough to even suggest a bonus, I have suggested bonues / changes to the classes that I play, and I will leave it to other people to suggest for the classes/lines that I don't play, Hunter being one of them, and as I've repeatedly said: you've made your suggestion, all we can do now is wait for the next BR build.

  4. #129
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    Mikk just silence thyself, please, for all our sakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    Unfortunately, I really don't think this set bonus will be powerful, at least not as powerful as it was. ....

    ....and Upshot every 20s(?), nothing compared to the blue line focus consumption, which means, I don't see this proc'ing hardly as much as it used to.
    Yeah, you're right, it wouldn't be as powerful without Barrage spam, but don't underestimate how often you're spending Focus on Red Hunter, if anything it's by far the better Focus gen line now with how (over) potent Quick Shot is. Upshot also has an effective cooldown of about 5 seconds, too.

    Agreed it wouldn't be as good as before. But still excellent. I'm definitely not in favour of a flat decrease to HS' cooldown as it just furthers the boring two-dimensional "on cooldown" rotation that Hunter has. The set bonus should be something that adds variety to the Hunter rotation.
    #15skills

  5. #130
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    You dont understand what your asking for


    if the heart seeker set resets every 10% on a focus skill like the heart seeker set currently resets at without insane luck your heart seeker will reset when most the cooldown is already burned therefore making the set useless its completely mathematical.



    The facts are if the heart seeker doesn't reset in under 10 seconds it will be a complete waste because by 20 seconds it should almost be back off cooldown and this is a well known fact from lots of hunters i play with who tested the set so im confused where this love for it is coming from.


    Not to mention devs already announced they are not giving us heart seeker reset back way it used to be so it very will be a dps loss or rotation screw up if we were to have that set being used its literally mathematical








    What scenario will it resetting with only 15 seconds left off cooldown will make that excellent where is any of this coming from?



    edited again a player accuses two dimensional playstyle that we wait on cooldowns is a fair enough reason to give us a set that doesnt work for us any good hunter will explain to you clearly why heart seeker resetting will never work anymore. the accusation that because hunters rotation waits on cooldowns they should have a bad bonus is just unfair
    Last edited by mikkye; Feb 18 2020 at 01:42 PM.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikkye View Post
    You dont understand what your asking for
    Your ability to miss the point is second to none. HS reset or whatever, anything but a flat CD decrease which is boring, Hunter rotation is currently spamming QS ENDLESSLY and then using PS only to keep the debuff up, BA on CD, US on CD and HS on CD. It's so, so boring.

    A good set bonus definitely has the ability to seriously spice up a class, and fix issues, of which the Hunter has many.
    #15skills

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Your ability to miss the point is second to none. HS reset or whatever, anything but a flat CD decrease which is boring, Hunter rotation is currently spamming QS ENDLESSLY and then using PS only to keep the debuff up, BA on CD, US on CD and HS on CD. It's so, so boring.

    A good set bonus definitely has the ability to seriously spice up a class, and fix issues, of which the Hunter has many.
    But that is going into a class revamp a -5 second upshot cooldown combined with or replaced with -30/45 sec heart seeker cooldown will guarentee a dps increase by maintaining the heart seeker hits target more guaranteed no need for any revamp.


    You cant maintain exgaguinate uptime if spam blood arrow off cooldown so again this is why i feel need debate this because the time exg is off cd if used blood arrow asap off cooldown the exg will expire because it only last 8 seconds before expires. This this right here is exactly why I am posting because when you say stuff like that all it does it shows hunt mains or ppl who know the class well you dont have as much information on the class and if a developer takes what you saying serious this is how we probs ended up with broken classes. People on forum not really knowing what talking about like that right there the blood arrow spam.


    Also why was barbed arrow not mentioned?? all of this shows me exactly why i must keep posting cause I cant allow you to say stuff like this and allow developers to believe its correct by seeing no opposition to it.


    But again to do anything else will require a class revamp which this is not what will happen so the most modest bonus would be to just reduce the heart seekers overall cooldown to make it reset at earlier time, which in turn results in the class producing more outgoing damage vs the proposed +1 dot set pulse that is being proposed by the GD's at this time.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    For about... the 3rd time now?

    Can we PLEASE keep this thread ON TOPIC. We are not here to discuss whether X or Y class is underpowered or overpowered and needs a buff / nerf, there are PLENTY of other threads for that. This SPECIFIC thread is to address the Raid Set Bonuses with the upcoming raid - you have stated your opinion about the Hunter bonuses, Cordovan has let us know that the Devs are in fact reading this thread, and we will see if any changes have been made in the NEXT BR build.

    Until then, keep your Hunter QQ to Hunter threads, because this isn't the place for it. This thread is for all 10 classes to talk about their raid set bonuses and suggest changes / better alternatives if necessary.

    Thanks.
    I think it's relevant, the thread is about the raid set bonuses, the hunter one is really beyond a cruel joke. It raises a number of questions and issues namely does anyone at SSG even understand what is wrong w/ the hunter? In order to make an argument that the raid set is a disaster and needs to be changed immediately it's helpful to have backup points as to why. The list of things wrong w/ the hunter is so long that it might seem like a derailment, but I think it's relevant to the main point of the thread.
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  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider5548 View Post
    I think it's relevant, the thread is about the raid set bonuses, the hunter one is really beyond a cruel joke. It raises a number of questions and issues namely does anyone at SSG even understand what is wrong w/ the hunter? In order to make an argument that the raid set is a disaster and needs to be changed immediately it's helpful to have backup points as to why. The list of things wrong w/ the hunter is so long that it might seem like a derailment, but I think it's relevant to the main point of the thread.
    I got your point and kinda it is relevant but especially in threads like this one its better to just put your 5-6 suggestions with out many words and move on so the developers wont lost in details get bored and tired.Probably those that make the armor raid sets have nothing to do with class development like Vastin and even if you explain or not makes no difference for them.
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  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    I got your point and kinda it is relevant but especially in threads like this one its better to just put your 5-6 suggestions with out many words and move on so the developers wont lost in details get bored and tired.Probably those that make the armor raid sets have nothing to do with class development like Vastin and even if you explain or not makes no difference for them.

    Im not asking for buffs but how can I explain why +1 makes no sense for the class without explaining how the class works, only one other person has offered a good example and understanding of the hunters rotation in depth and they also can clearly see how this set bonus with be neither a boost or a nerf but simply 2+ slot essence gear.



    It is up to us to debate any redresses we feel should be implemented and thats what Ive done i havent requested a revamp but all of my points are in support for giving hunter a set that grants bonus dps or utility

  11. #136
    Here's a red hunter set bonus proposal: Marksman reduces the cool down of Heart Seeker by an additional x second(s). Now, can we stop arguing about hunters, to the exclusion of everything else?
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  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeviternus View Post
    here's a red hunter set bonus proposal: Marksman reduces the cool down of heart seeker by an additional x second(s). Now, can we stop arguing about hunters, to the exclusion of everything else?
    Signed! +1

  13. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeviternus View Post
    Here's a red hunter set bonus proposal: Marksman reduces the cool down of Heart Seeker by an additional x second(s). Now, can we stop arguing about hunters, to the exclusion of everything else?
    It's not really like that. It's just that we've all said what we could on other sets, it's just one person too stubborn to see himself being destructive and generally not contribute in a meaningful way that keeps creating the clutter which seems like "exclusion of everything else". coughmikkyecough

    Jokes aside, hope for a new BR today and we'll see what's in store.

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaboch View Post
    Jokes aside, hope for a new BR today and we'll see what's in store.
    I've seen plenty of Bullroarers with 5-page-long forum threads complaining about glaring issues/inequalities and can't recall a single time where the next BR build (or any subsequent build) reflected any of our concerns.

    I am almost certain there'll be no change to any of these sets, and all will go live as they are right now, useless or otherwise, massively furthering the divide between classes that are currently potent, over-potent, and effectively useless. Not that I'm a pessimist or anything, just realistic, sadly.
    #15skills

  15. #140
    The Hunter set bonuses are a bit tricky because the Hunter only has 1 traitline that's viable in group/raid environments, yet should get 1 set per traitline. Now in order for those 2 sets to not be completely useless those sets should also be of some use in the red trait line

    Generally the Hunter class has 3 issues:
    DPS -> We tested our Hunters with a LM applying only those debuffs that specifically benefit Hunters but don't benefit other classes (pets/tar, but no ancient craft). Generally Hunters seem to be about 10-15k behind Warden/RK in such a scenario (~125 vs 135-140), so a strong single target dps bonus for the red line set should try to close that gap
    AoE -> Hunters barely have any AoE. On the one hand I do like that in order to get good AoE one has to be in melee range and accept the additional dangers that come with it (Warden, Burglar, Champion are all melee, lightning RKs AoE skills also require melee range). On the other hand especially in 3mans some AoE is needed, so I think Hunters should get a set bonus that improves their AoE, but not to the level of melee AoE. Since there's 2 main AoE skills (Rain of Arrows and Split Shot) and the red line set would already be designed around single target damage the blue line set could be the AoE set and (since it's blue line) designed around the blue line skill (Split Shot)
    Support -> Hunters don't bring as much support as other dps classes, so a support focused bonus for the support line (yellow) would make a good addition

    As for red I do like that suggestion:
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeviternus View Post
    Here's a red hunter set bonus proposal: Marksman reduces the cool down of Heart Seeker by an additional x second(s). Now, can we stop arguing about hunters, to the exclusion of everything else?
    I think an additional 2s should be fine (so a total 4s/6s for crit/dev)..if that's too OP than 1s/2s (for a total 3s/6s), but I'm pretty sure a flat 2s is fine

    As for blue line I'd suggest:
    Critical hits with Split Shot reset the cooldown of Split Shot and reduce the cooldown of Rain of Arrows by 1s
    (that's 1s less for RoA per hit of Split Shot that crits so if all 5 hits crit that's -5s)

    Again, would need testing..I'm unsure how much AoE damage that would produce, I don't think I've traited Split Shot in ages but since it's a blue line set it should be designed around a blue line skill


    For yellow:
    Explosive Arrow reduces targets Physical and Tactical Mitigation by 5% for 30s

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeviternus View Post
    Here's a red hunter set bonus proposal: Marksman reduces the cool down of Heart Seeker by an additional x second(s). Now, can we stop arguing about hunters, to the exclusion of everything else?
    In theory this will accomplish same goal as reducing its base cooldown but make it only for redline but at this point its just better to have a set that reduces the cooldowns of heart seeker and upshot however they decide to do it will be appreciated.

    Something along the lines of resetting Heart seeker and or upshot is very vital for the hunter to receive as its 130 set bonus for the redline spec 100%

    signed
    Last edited by mikkye; Feb 19 2020 at 06:34 PM.

  17. #142

    Raid Set Bonuses

    Raid set bonuses in general all seem like the creators are hesitant to give any real bonus at all with the exception of one or two sets. It seems like every set bonus almost needs a complete rework, even with a conservative approach these set bonuses are very underwhelming. Please reconsider these set bonuses and try to add bonuses that are useful. I wont make any specific suggestions as I am sure that the creators know, in general, which class serves which role for the most part. Champion has been neglected for some time now and really needs a set bonus that increases damage in some way so they can compete with other dps classes plain and simple, it seems like its getting worse every level cap increase. Hunter is also starting to feel that way with the kind of dps numbers we have been seeing from runekeepers and burglars. Support class set bonuses have nothing that really benefits the fellowship in a stand out way. I really hope the creators decide to make some nice set bonuses that we can enjoy owning after we put forth effort in the raids to earn them. Thanks for reading, Markusofgondor
    Last edited by MarkusOfGondor; Feb 19 2020 at 09:52 PM.

  18. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkusOfGondor View Post
    Raid set bonuses in general all seem like the creators are hesitant to give any real bonus at all with the exception of one or two sets. It seems like every set bonus almost needs a complete rework, even with a conservative approach these set bonuses are very underwhelming. Please reconsider these set bonuses and try to add bonuses that are useful. I wont make any specific suggestions as I am sure that the creators know, in general, which class serves which role for the most part. Champion has been neglected for some time now and really needs a set bonus that increases damage in some way so they can compete with other dps classes plain and simple, it seems like its getting worse every level cap increase. Hunter is also starting to feel that way with the kind of dps numbers we have been seeing from runekeepers and burglars. Support class set bonuses have nothing that really benefits the fellowship in a stand out way. I really hope the creators decide to make some nice set bonuses that we can enjoy owning after we put forth effort in the raids to earn them. Thanks for reading, Markusofgondor
    As someone stated before its just a set bonus, not a class fix, in that way we wont need to use outdated gear on new cap just coz of good set bonus. Im not the fan of multiplying entities with set bonus for every spec for every class. All that fancy stuff with traits, legacies on lis, bonuses on raid sets could become one big hardly to balance thing. On previous cap we had good bonuses already, like -10% induction time/attack duration or +5% healing modifier. Im not a hardcore raider but will play raids for sure and dont know if all those many set bonuses will be something that i would like to spend time on across my alts. For small kins it was a pain to gear even 1 toon with anvil set on previous cap on big server like evernight, will be even harder if you would need a set for every spec/class. Disappointment will be even higher if some bonuses will be very good when other will be bad and that could easily happen if you choose this way.

  19. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunhard View Post
    As someone stated before its just a set bonus, not a class fix, in that way we wont need to use outdated gear on new cap just coz of good set bonus. Im not the fan of multiplying entities with set bonus for every spec for every class. All that fancy stuff with traits, legacies on lis, bonuses on raid sets could become one big hardly to balance thing. On previous cap we had good bonuses already, like -10% induction time/attack duration or +5% healing modifier. Im not a hardcore raider but will play raids for sure and dont know if all those many set bonuses will be something that i would like to spend time on across my alts. For small kins it was a pain to gear even 1 toon with anvil set on previous cap on big server like evernight, will be even harder if you would need a set for every spec/class. Disappointment will be even higher if some bonuses will be very good when other will be bad and that could easily happen if you choose this way.
    Everyone I know hated the Anvil sets because of how boring they were..not having interesting raid sets with skill altering bonuses but rather unimaginative stat bonuses like Anvil will cause raiding population to lose motivation

  20. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    Everyone I know hated the Anvil sets because of how boring they were..not having interesting raid sets with skill altering bonuses but rather unimaginative stat bonuses like Anvil will cause raiding population to lose motivation
    I see more often that ppl lose motivation to play raids when they complete it few times on highest tier, get gear and have nothing else to do. Some go to play alts to get challenge on new class, but set bonuses itself... i dont know. Challenging content is what attracts raiders i think, even swapping few ppl in raid can make a difference in teamwork. Set bonuses is just a cherry on a pie as a reward, which can make a big troubles if most of current bonuses will stay coz it will be even worse that we had before. Raid itself should be interesting or raiding population will lose motivation very fast.

  21. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunhard View Post
    As someone stated before its just a set bonus, not a class fix, in that way we wont need to use outdated gear on new cap just coz of good set bonus. Im not the fan of multiplying entities with set bonus for every spec for every class. All that fancy stuff with traits, legacies on lis, bonuses on raid sets could become one big hardly to balance thing. On previous cap we had good bonuses already, like -10% induction time/attack duration or +5% healing modifier. Im not a hardcore raider but will play raids for sure and dont know if all those many set bonuses will be something that i would like to spend time on across my alts. For small kins it was a pain to gear even 1 toon with anvil set on previous cap on big server like evernight, will be even harder if you would need a set for every spec/class. Disappointment will be even higher if some bonuses will be very good when other will be bad and that could easily happen if you choose this way.
    Gunhard, my comment was not directed toward a class fix of any kind, I just want to earn set bonus gear that I can tell I'm wearing. Set bonuses should be good enough to consider using them at the next level cap increase, that is the mark of a good set bonus and it can be done without being to overpowered. I think they are going a bit overboard and are too concerned that they are going to break the game or class balancing, this is a video game and we are suppose to have fun and enjoy the things we earn instead of having to make some sort of political bargain to get a good raid set bonus. Some of the things you mention like LI's, class traits, ext. aren't things that are going to break a class objectively speaking, although mistakes can happen. Thanks for reading, Markusofgondor
    Last edited by MarkusOfGondor; Feb 20 2020 at 06:37 AM.

  22. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    Everyone I know hated the Anvil sets because of how boring they were..not having interesting raid sets with skill altering bonuses but rather unimaginative stat bonuses like Anvil will cause raiding population to lose motivation
    Agreed Chris91, most of the raiders I know didn't like generic stat based raid set bonuses and miss the class specific bonuses like we use to have. Although I think what they are doing is a step in the right direction, it is just void of any real bonus with the exception of a couple sets. Thanks for reading, Markusofgondor

  23. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunhard View Post
    I see more often that ppl lose motivation to play raids when they complete it few times on highest tier, get gear and have nothing else to do. Some go to play alts to get challenge on new class, but set bonuses itself... i dont know. Challenging content is what attracts raiders i think, even swapping few ppl in raid can make a difference in teamwork. Set bonuses is just a cherry on a pie as a reward, which can make a big troubles if most of current bonuses will stay coz it will be even worse that we had before. Raid itself should be interesting or raiding population will lose motivation very fast.
    I think they did a good job fixing the replay value of the raid by not adding gear vendors. If they continue in this direction the replay value of the raid will not be limited to just a few times, especially for people that have alts. I think for the most part you are right and a lot of the end game raiders enjoy a good challenge, but it doesn't end there, people want to be rewarded for their efforts and not with bad set bonuses. Thanks for reading, Markusofgondor

  24. #149
    I like the +5s force taunt on Threatening shout idea for Yellow Cappy. There is a window of aggro that we have a serious problem with. When an RK loads a bunch of hots on you and you start a pull the mobs other than your target couldn't care less about you, they are going for that RK. The obvious solution of hitting Threatening Shout to intercept them is unfortunately an ephemeral solution. It will work, but in 3 seconds they will care more about the dps being done to them than the healing done to you, and you won't have Threatening shout to fix the problem. If you copy the RK's hot threat, you miss out on copying the DPS's threat, and you can't afford to lose threat to either. Having that added 5seconds could bridge the gap between copying hot heal aggro and dps aggro and provide a good solution to that problem.

    That said I'd much rather you devs come up with a class based solution than fix the problem via a set. It's been rumored that you have adjusted the threat modifier for tanks to 8x, it might be time to adjust the heal threat modifier for tanks as well. I hope you will create a class solution to navigate through the situation of starting every pull at the bottom of the threat sheet due to healing.

    It would be unfortunate if they chose to fix a hard class problem via a set bonus because it may become normative as we already see with some of these, and it will be locked far behind a grind for each expansion. So let me make a Yellow set bonus suggestion that would exist in a world where our hard problems are fixed. Yellow set bonus: -X seconds on Rallying Cry cool down. (No more than 5 no less than 3) That may seem bizarre at first, but you generate more defeat events in Yellow than you can use Rallying Cry on. HPS negates TPS, so it acts like pseudo mitigation, and is also incredibly beneficial to the group due to how we build for tanking. It also generates at least 2x in heal threat to all mobs targeting the tank. I would definitely love it, but if nothing is going to be done about our threat sheet during pulls with prehots then I would much rather have +5s Force on Threatening.
    Last edited by Armitas; Feb 20 2020 at 10:27 AM.
    .


  25. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    I like the +5s force taunt on Threatening shout idea for Yellow Cappy. There is a window of aggro that we have a serious problem with Devs. When an RK loads a bunch of hots on you and you start a pull the mobs other than your target couldn't care less about you, they are going for that RK. The obvious solution of hitting Threatening Shout to intercept them is unfortunately an ephemeral solution. It will work, but in 3 seconds they will care more about the dps being done to them than the healing done to you, and you won't have Threatening shout to fix the problem. If you copy the RK's hot threat, you miss out on copying the DPS's threat, and you can't afford to lose threat to either. Having that added 5seconds could bridge the gap between copying hot heal aggro and dps aggro.
    A 15s CD 10s duration AoE taunt would be ridiculously overpowered and isn't needed at all

    Don't spam heals on a Captain before he's in melee range, once he's got his hots up and running you won't pull stuff away anyway, the Captain's group heals combined with Noble Mark produces ridiculous healing threat

    Captain and RK healer both have enough defensive cooldowns so that you don't need to apply hots prefight

    If stuff runs to the healer as a Captain one of the 2 of them is doing something very wrong

 

 
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