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  1. #1

    6man Instance Feedback - T3

    Ok, so after seeing all the instances at least once in T3 I thought I'd open the discussion and provide some feedback specific to the T3 group version

    Overall
    Trash: I like the fact that there's lots of trash in the instances but you don't have to kill most of it. It makes the space feel alive, but killing lots of trash is boring and time consuming. That's a big plus for me
    Interrupts: It's great that bosses cast so much everyone has to participate in interrupt duty. In some older content (Thikil Gundu, Anvil) you'd assign 2-3 people to interrupt duty and everyone else could ignore it completely

    Gashan Kutot:
    Encounter 1:
    Many of the early boss fight seem undertuned. We had Carrog, Lost One, Gurvand on Wednesday and the Roots of Fangorn Spider, the Carn Dum Cargul and Gorothul yesterday
    Carrog has one big AOE but with LM and Burglar debuffs it's easily manageable
    Lost One has just one cast you really need to interrupt, otherwise not very difficult
    Gurvand is annoying with his reflect, but not difficult at all
    The Spider also does not really do anything (the adds have a DOT that does some damage, but not very hard to heal)
    Cargul didn't really do anything other than stun people
    Gorothul was the only one that seemed balanced well and not undertuned

    Most bosses could use more mechanics

    Encounter 2:
    Skorgrim on Wednesday and Nurzum on Thursday
    Both seemed decent, nothing too difficult but with some good mechanics (unlike some of the first encounter). I'd say they are fine

    Encounter 3:
    The Archivar
    Great idea first of all, I really love it. Unfortunately the execution could be better

    The boss has not nearly enough morale, could be doubled easily. He has 35 million, meanwhile in Bar Nirnaeth I think the total amount of morale of all 4 phases of the 1st boss is like 90 million combined. Most of the mechanics can't develop fully because he dies way too fast. He didn't even punt us around twice (and that's on launch day)
    The (daily changing?) spirits are a cool idea too but they could also use more morale, the group dot from the (green?) spirit couldn't stack up to a point where it was dangerous
    The fire puddle from the red spirit should also be dropped if the person with the dot dies, otherwise you can just die/revive to completely ignore that mechanic

    The sauron memories can be ignored completely
    The healer memories are weird and sometimes run around for 15-20s after being healed to full and still drop traps/puddles. The traps/puddles don't ever go away, I'd say they should despawn 20-30s after the memory that dropped them is gone OR give us some way to clear the room especially given how unresponsive the memories sometimes are

    Morale of the memories is fine though I'd say

    I'd say that whenever the boss punts he should get a 25% damage bonues per memory that is still there so if you ignore the mechanics the punt REALLY hurts


    Bar Nirnaeth:
    Encounter 1:
    Morale could be reduced by 15-20%
    The distributed damage could be doubled or more (it hit us for 70k) and targeted on a random person who is not leading the aggro list and should have a much smaller range. Currently you don't really have to stack up for it because the range is soo big, I'd say if you're more than 3-4m apart someone should die :P
    The puddles work quite well
    Damage from the boss could be increased
    Otherwise it's a rather straightforward fight, but it's also a first boss
    The boss when he is in his armour blocks line of sight..that's really annoying as a healer

    Encounter 2:
    Overall a good idea, but too much morale to punch through especially given the healing adds (we had dealt 150 million damage over the course of the fight)
    Maybe change the healing into shielding or make it interruptable somehow
    The hole in the middle blocks line of sight - that should be changed

    Encounter 3:
    The big roots could really have less morale, I mean 36 million is more than the Archivar in the Halls has and there's 2 of them and tons of trash and that's just the first phase. I'd say 18 million would be fine


    Nazgul:
    Overall a nice instance
    One thing though, please put a longer cooldown on their fear skills. With some combinations you are almost permanently feared, it's annoying as hell

  2. #2
    In my opinion Difficulty of these 6-mans highly depend on a group setup.
    Most of groups uses minstrel and a tanking captain + 2 x rks or brg which makes fights much easier due to minstrel dps\mitigations buffs and captain group utilities and the best dps classes. Also from what i've seen most of minstrels exploit the stance which really makes difference into the fight with the current stat caps.

    New fights become harder if you use a guardian + healing rk (instead of mns+cpt) for example or some other dps setups, so im not too sure about buffing some of the bosses.
    Last stage of the last boss in Bar Nirnaeth seems not finished, so i can agree here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    The (daily changing?) spirits
    spirit type depends on what boss you had before (Nurzum, Skrogrim etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    Encounter 2:
    Overall a good idea, but too much morale to punch through especially given the healing adds (we had dealt 150 million damage over the course of the fight)
    I think morale levels are fine here , we just kept all the vessels away from the boss:
    day 1 our dps just tanked the vessels a bit (till 75%, if im not wrong, when they sit and turn on their auras)
    day 2 we had 2 captains in the group so we just did it with 2 tanks, took only 4-5 minutes or so without any additional boss heal.
    Lynxz;Tishina;Brandywine

  3. #3
    I agree with most of your feedback. The fact that these instances are no were near as trash heavy as Thikil-Gundu and Naerbrand is a huge breathe of fresh air for the 6 mans. Change nothing with the trash adds in the instances

    Gashan Kutot:

    Encounter 1:
    These bosses are fine. Maybe toon gurvands reflect down to like 5-10 seconds instead of 30, once the reflect it is up youre sitting around doing nothing until its off, just a boring fight.
    I am always hesitant now about asking them to scale things higher because of Tier 4 and Tier 5 now

    Encounter 2:
    Liked both fights

    Encounter 3:
    This definitely needs some polish, I like the concept and idea. The room gets caked with puddles no matter what, even after full healing ally spirits. There is almost no point of healing them. If the intention is the ally spirits stop dropping puddles once they are full healed then this mechanic is flat out broken.


    Bar Nirnaeth:

    Encounter 1:
    Nothing wrong with this fight

    Encounter 2:
    My favorite of all the bosses in the 6 mans so far. Don't change it

    Encounter 3:
    This one still feels like it's still in beta. The first phase with the tree's corruption removal is constantly resetting the phase. You have to start from 100 corruption removals again and the add waves you already killed before reset are not spawning anymore. This whole phase is just super buggy overall.

    FIX THE DIALOGUE, we shouldn't have to sit through 5 minutes of RP dialogue every time we start this.

    Phase 2: The roots do not do anything except provide a long time sink of having to kill them at the end to get out of combat. Drop the morale of the roots, or make them do something. They are literally sitting there doing nothing the whole time.


    Fallen Kings:

    I agree with OP, fears need do be tuned down a bit. Our tank was chain feared at one point for maybe a full minute.


    Now all we really need in this expansion pack is some meaningful gear with unique proc's and set bonuses. (Seriously the itemization in this game is still extremely bad)
    Last edited by luckygirl1; Jan 24 2020 at 11:43 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    Encounter 2:
    Overall a good idea, but too much morale to punch through especially given the healing adds (we had dealt 150 million damage over the course of the fight)
    Maybe change the healing into shielding or make it interruptable somehow
    The hole in the middle blocks line of sight - that should be changed
    You can also choose to just target the boss, the adds start healing just if they loose about 1million hp.
    This way the fight is quite short, but obviously the inc dmg is a bit higher if 6 adds are running around.

    Does anyone know if the -max moral debuff on the tank is avoidable?
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum, the chance that I read them is low.
    The best way is via Discord:
    Gertes#5389

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Siddharta View Post
    In my opinion Difficulty of these 6-mans highly depend on a group setup.
    Most of groups uses minstrel and a tanking captain + 2 x rks or brg which makes fights much easier due to minstrel dps\mitigations buffs and captain group utilities and the best dps classes. Also from what i've seen most of minstrels exploit the stance which really makes difference into the fight with the current stat caps.
    100% agree without captain tank and mini heal the incoming damage is really really high, to the point that it feels more like t5 then t3.
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum, the chance that I read them is low.
    The best way is via Discord:
    Gertes#5389

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    100% agree without captain tank and mini heal the incoming damage is really really high, to the point that it feels more like t5 then t3.
    I think it depends on the tactical mitigation of your group to be honest. Nearly every damage there is tactical and heavy + medium armour dpsers barely have any tactical mitigation for t3. If you bring dps runekeepers they have a decent amount of tactical mit so they receive a balanced amount of damage. Medium armour classes will need to stack vitality to survive there. Mini + cappy basically give a huge damage reduction because of tale exploit + composure + inspire fellows and captain give more morale and most importantly a double rezz + damage reduction skills for the whole group. By bringing guard and heal rk instead of mini + captain tank you're sacrificing lots of rezzes.

    Also I wouldn't increase the damage enemies do for now, keep in mind it's a t3, and we will have t5.

    My general feedback on Halls of Lore:

    Trash pulls, they are not as boring as TG or other instances, I miss a couple more of mechanics, basically the only enemy you have to pay attention to are the wardens of the archive.

    1st encounter: Caerog + Lost One + Gurvand: Caerog was an OK fight but with little mechanics, basically knockbacks and aoe hits, nothing else. Lost One was just interrupting it and fight was easy, but at least there's a mechanic in it. Gurvand was just boring, really boring, 20s being able to dps and 30s afk... I would change it to 10s reflect + 40s cooldown at least.
    Spider + Cargul + Gorothul: Spider was good idea but bleed is not what it used to be in Roots of Fangorn, maybe turn the small spiders into something like they do an uninterruptable induction on someone when in melee range and it instantly kills you, so you have to cc and kill them at the moment you can just ignore them. Cargul: I just found it's boring for a tank to get aggro before they kill someone randomly because they spawn really far from each other, but basically it's simple fight. Gorothul one seems balanced.

    2nd Encounter: Skorgrim: It was an interesting fight, in the end you could just nuke skorgrim + dps ranged the dwarves to get rid of that mechanic, I think it would be a far more entertaining fight if 1: dwarves were unkillable, 2: bleed dwarves put dissapear after 20s. So you would need to stay all the time in the circle.
    Ice Monster (don't remember name): It's a good fight in general, maybe a bit simple in how to do it but still challenging because of the big bleed on everyone you get in midfight. I would also change the Horn mechanic, so you can only use horn once per fellow member.

    Last boss: I find the heal NPC mechanic good but really terribly executed, I'd make NPC put a dread aura (+10 dread maybe) on everyone in the room (like huge radius) so that when you heal the NPC it disappears, atm they drop puddles anyways and it's better just to ignore them sometimes. Also would make the boss shield to be almost complete immunity (like -99% inc damage) so you're forced to kill adds for it to disappear.

  7. #7
    I have only had time for Black Lore.

    I had the same thoughts as Kander on buffing it. It's just a T3 rather than a T5, it's not supposed to be the top tier of challenge, but a suitably placed challenge for the majority of players. Like Kander I feel like TM needs to be tightened down but that is the whole ranged vs melee debate for another thread.

    The stuns on the Cargul are gratuitous at 12secs. It's not bad when you have 5 other people that can be hit, but when I did it solo this morning it was just plain annoying to be afk repeatedly for so long. Might want to give some grace on solo, as there is with Nurz on his big attack. I DPSed it last night and my first thought on his add phase is "this is going to be a pain when I captain tank" because they are so far away, and threatening shout's echo range is not that big. I'll be tanking it rather than dpsing it this week so i'll find out how that turns out, but the distance was my first observation on that fight and seem like it might become a problem later on.

    It also seemed like fears in general, trash/otherwise were not being removed. That is with strong fear resistance, so I don't think it's just immediately reapplied. I think it was the basic dot dmg fear, I can't remember the name. Anyone experience that?
    Last edited by Armitas; Jan 24 2020 at 04:30 PM.
    .


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    I think it depends on the tactical mitigation of your group to be honest. Nearly every damage there is tactical and heavy + medium armour dpsers barely have any tactical mitigation for t3. If you bring dps runekeepers they have a decent amount of tactical mit so they receive a balanced amount of damage. Medium armour classes will need to stack vitality to survive there. Mini + cappy basically give a huge damage reduction because of tale exploit + composure + inspire fellows and captain give more morale and most importantly a double rezz + damage reduction skills for the whole group. By bringing guard and heal rk instead of mini + captain tank you're sacrificing lots of rezzes.
    We had Cappy Tank, Burglar/Warden/RK dps, LM and me as RK heal..I didn't notice huge issues with medium class vs light. Healers overheal anyway, so the continuos damage taken does not really matter. The higher morale values on the melees (5 morale per vit for Warden, 4.5 morale per vita and 10% from traits for Burg) cancelled out the lower TMit because the burst damage (which still matters) was a similiar % of max morale

    I think our Burglar has like 80k TMit unbuffed

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    Does anyone know if the -max moral debuff on the tank is avoidable?
    Avoided it once, standing behind the boss while he was inducting (in ~10m range) , but im not sure if it was range-avoidable. Probably i was hidden behind the texture (at least it works in Bar Nirnaeth (last stage): you can avoid spirits\fear induction by hiding behind the big stones in the water).

    Something like this
    Last edited by Siddharta; Jan 24 2020 at 09:12 PM.
    Lynxz;Tishina;Brandywine

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    You can also choose to just target the boss, the adds start healing just if they loose about 1million hp.
    This way the fight is quite short, but obviously the inc dmg is a bit higher if 6 adds are running around.

    Does anyone know if the -max moral debuff on the tank is avoidable?
    It is. Have the tank quickly move away from the boss when it starts inducting.

    It is ranged-avoidable. Line of sight doesn't play a part.
    Psorokostaina/Ippokratis/Kervertros/Teucros. Officer & Raid Leader for The Aegean Eagles, Evernight {EU}.
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    186
    Small correction here. The ability is not ranged-avoidable either. It's a frontal. The tank needs to simply get behind the boss before induction is completed.
    Psorokostaina/Ippokratis/Kervertros/Teucros. Officer & Raid Leader for The Aegean Eagles, Evernight {EU}.
    The Aegean Eagles Forums
    The Aegean Eagles Calendar

  12. #12
    I think memory of Sauron does do something, we got dread stacking on some members of group which seems to be randomly put. But after aoe down memories, dread seems to decrease or generate less.

 

 

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