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Thread: Lore-masters

  1. #1

    Lore-masters

    I am leveling my LM up again and I've realized that Lightning Strike has almost 4 times the fire power of Burning Embers, almost three times of Gust of Wind and almost twice of Sticky Gourd.

    A few changes I would like to see:

    Shortening the times for Light of the Rising Dawn, Sticky Gourd and Ring of Fire from 30 seconds each to 10 seconds each. (this would make it easier to have a formidable rotation)
    Shortening the time for Wisdom of the Council from 5 minutes to 1 minute. (this would make leveling up a bit easier since skills cost morale as well as power and you don't have any other heals other than Inner Flame in blue line)
    Shortening the time for Nature's Fury and Lightning-storm from 1 minute and 30 seconds each to 1 minute each. (red line)
    Shortening the time for Ents Go To War from 5 minutes to 1 minute. (red line)
    Shortening the time for Sic 'Em from 2 minutes to 1 minute (blue line)
    Adapting Sign of Power: Righteousness to apply to your entire fellowship. (or at least to you and your pet)
    Removing the 60 seconds cooldown on Sword and Storm for the lightning.
    Revert Power of Knowledge back to a non-damage skill and heal per second.
    Give brooches stats for your character (like RK chisels for example) while giving stickpins critical rating, physical mastery and avoidances for your pet.
    Wolf-speech: summon a wolf to fight by your side (requires level 80)
    Damage type changed to frost for: Tundra Lynx, Polar Bear, Tundra cub, Tundra Bog-guardian, Frost Raven and Snowcrest and Tundra Eagles.
    Damage type changed to fire for: Ember-crested Eagle
    Damage type changed to lightning for: Storm Raven

  2. #2
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    I dunno, that all seems kinda OP to me.

  3. #3
    For a class that was inspired by Gandalf and Elrond, LMs are not all that powerful.
    Only yellow line is attractive in group play.

  4. #4
    CaerArianrhod's Avatar
    CaerArianrhod is offline Rohirrim Scout
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    I am leveling my LM up again and I've realized that Lightning Strike has almost 4 times the fire power of Burning Embers, almost three times of Gust of Wind and almost twice of Sticky Gourd.

    A few changes I would like to see:

    Shortening the times for
    The problems with LM are not (rep. not in the first place) the cool-downs, but much more the casting time. This long induction times are really a pain and make the class half worth of that what it could and should be. All skills for shortening the induction time should be in the first row of each skill-tree.
    LMs would also need a skill in the skill-tree like RK/Warden finesse or Fate or Vitality like some other classes do have that.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    I am leveling my LM up again and I've realized that Lightning Strike has almost 4 times the fire power of Burning Embers, almost three times of Gust of Wind and almost twice of Sticky Gourd.

    A few changes I would like to see:

    Shortening the times for Light of the Rising Dawn, Sticky Gourd and Ring of Fire from 30 seconds each to 10 seconds each. (this would make it easier to have a formidable rotation)
    Too OP by a longshot. Ring of Fire hits like a truck already, leave CD's as is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Shortening the time for Wisdom of the Council from 5 minutes to 1 minute. (this would make leveling up a bit easier since skills cost morale as well as power and you don't have any other heals other than Inner Flame in blue line)
    This skill was never meant to be part of any rotation, it is for emergencies only, leave as is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Shortening the time for Nature's Fury and Lightning-storm from 1 minute and 30 seconds each to 1 minute each. (red line)
    I could MAYBE see this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Shortening the time for Ents Go To War from 5 minutes to 1 minute. (red line)
    Ents is a crummy skill now anyway, I rarely use it. Use staff sweep every time it is up reduces the CD on Ents, Ring of Fire and Lightning Storm a bit, so you can reduce your own CD's some, try it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Shortening the time for Sic 'Em from 2 minutes to 1 minute (blue line)
    That skill is a joke given the way the summoned pets just sit there and do nothing half of the time anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Adapting Sign of Power: Righteousness to apply to your entire fellowship. (or at least to you and your pet)
    Never going to happen, however I'd be ok with the version we used to have; the CD was such that you could effectively keep 2 characters stun protected indefinitely. Right now there isn't enough time difference between how long the skill stays active and when the CD is up. You effectively have about a 2 second window if you want to keep SI up 100% of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Removing the 60 seconds cooldown on Sword and Storm for the lightning.
    I'd be fine with this, but you can't allow the stun component to happen that often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Revert Power of Knowledge back to a non-damage skill and heal per second.
    You've got water lore by L77.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Give brooches stats for your character (like RK chisels for example) while giving stickpins critical rating, physical mastery and avoidances for your pet.
    No opinion here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Wolf-speech: summon a wolf to fight by your side (requires level 80)
    Another anemic skill, just remove it already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Damage type changed to frost for: Tundra Lynx, Polar Bear, Tundra cub, Tundra Bog-guardian, Frost Raven and Snowcrest and Tundra Eagles.
    Fine, I really don't care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Damage type changed to fire for: Ember-crested Eagle
    See above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Damage type changed to lightning for: Storm Raven
    Irin r8 Hunter // Arngar r8 Burg // Akthuri r15 LM // Vishus r5 Captain // Curad r11 (active) Mini < RETIRED // ACTIVE > Ursamajor Beorn // Babayaga LM // Schmartone Burg // (Anor)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod View Post
    The problems with LM are not (rep. not in the first place) the cool-downs, but much more the casting time. This long induction times are really a pain and make the class half worth of that what it could and should be. All skills for shortening the induction time should be in the first row of each skill-tree.
    LMs would also need a skill in the skill-tree like RK/Warden finesse or Fate or Vitality like some other classes do have that.
    Or, give us a mobility line where we can dps on the move... similar to the hunter and RK. You sacrifice DPS for mobility.
    Irin r8 Hunter // Arngar r8 Burg // Akthuri r15 LM // Vishus r5 Captain // Curad r11 (active) Mini < RETIRED // ACTIVE > Ursamajor Beorn // Babayaga LM // Schmartone Burg // (Anor)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Shortening the time for Sic 'Em from 2 minutes to 1 minute (blue line)
    Quote Originally Posted by Irin19 View Post
    That skill is a joke given the way the summoned pets just sit there and do nothing half of the time anyway.
    You need to learn to use the second part of the skill. The one where you Command the Sic 'em pets to attack your target (Target the desired mob, then click the icon) works every time. The other way, just let yourself get hit; the Sic 'em pets will then attack that mob.


    As for Pewpewmidget's suggestions; making most of the changes recommended would make the LM way overpowered.


    However, we can use a few more "on the move" skills in addition to Wizards Fire, maybe a scalable, low level self-heal (from a few tens of moral at low level, to a few thousand moral at max level) on a 15-second timer; use of this skill maintains agro on any agroed mob.
    Last edited by Gandolf_TheOld; Jan 15 2020 at 11:40 AM.
    Ujest - 130 Lore-master, Opun Tia - 105 Warden, Veneur - 75 Hunter, Cneasai - 61 Minstrel, plus alts and mules
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    I am leveling my LM up again and I've realized that Lightning Strike has almost 4 times the fire power of Burning Embers, almost three times of Gust of Wind and almost twice of Sticky Gourd.

    A few changes I would like to see:

    Shortening the times for Light of the Rising Dawn, Sticky Gourd and Ring of Fire from 30 seconds each to 10 seconds each. (this would make it easier to have a formidable rotation)
    Shortening the time for Wisdom of the Council from 5 minutes to 1 minute. (this would make leveling up a bit easier since skills cost morale as well as power and you don't have any other heals other than Inner Flame in blue line)
    Shortening the time for Nature's Fury and Lightning-storm from 1 minute and 30 seconds each to 1 minute each. (red line)
    Shortening the time for Ents Go To War from 5 minutes to 1 minute. (red line)
    Shortening the time for Sic 'Em from 2 minutes to 1 minute (blue line)
    Adapting Sign of Power: Righteousness to apply to your entire fellowship. (or at least to you and your pet)
    Removing the 60 seconds cooldown on Sword and Storm for the lightning.
    Revert Power of Knowledge back to a non-damage skill and heal per second.
    Give brooches stats for your character (like RK chisels for example) while giving stickpins critical rating, physical mastery and avoidances for your pet.
    Wolf-speech: summon a wolf to fight by your side (requires level 80)
    Damage type changed to frost for: Tundra Lynx, Polar Bear, Tundra cub, Tundra Bog-guardian, Frost Raven and Snowcrest and Tundra Eagles.
    Damage type changed to fire for: Ember-crested Eagle
    Damage type changed to lightning for: Storm Raven
    I don´t know wich lvl you are but speaking for 130:

    1. shortening any cooldowns is not necessary in my opinion because it would make the class a little bit to strong and some skills would become unused in a rotation. I prefer using many different skills over using only 3 every time.
    2. I have to disagree with you because Council is meant to be a panic skill. A strong ability with rather long CD. Would be to strong with only 1m cooldown. See 9. for more
    3. See 1.
    4. See 1.
    5. See 1 and: CD for Ents, Gourd and Lightning Storm can be shortend by using Staff-Sweep.
    6. Yeah maybe but blue line needs a complete overhaul IMO.
    7. It is fine now. During Erebor-raid Times the duration was so long you could have a raid immun to stuns and it was OP. If you want to, get the yellow Abyss of Mordath set wich doubles the current duration 20s->40s.
    8. You really want to stun everything every 3 seconds huh? No this is to OP and LMs already have tons of CC. Learn how to use them efficently.
    9. That´s you first actual good Idea. You get the skill with lvl 16 where it does no damage and when it improves with lvl 80 it should start doing damage. Then LMs would have more selfhealing for early lvls because waterlore comes with lvl 77.
    10. Interesting, I like more diversity when it comes to those class Items
    11. Whan I understand you correctly you want to have the wolf earlier and without the Warsteed? Yeah maybe but still doesn´t solve the problems in blue line.
    12-14: Now that our pets do Beleriand damage instead of common this has gotten a little bit better but giving every pet different damage types would be a good idea for blue line. It gives you more options and makes you think about wich pet to use.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Shortening the time for Nature's Fury and Lightning-storm from 1 minute and 30 seconds each to 1 minute each. (red line)
    1)many people complain about lags and SSG redesign some LM skills in the past when they decide to blame LMs for them. People always believe what Lightning-Storm create lags, I don't see SSG touching it again
    2)many creeps cry what LM's one-shot them with Lightning-storm. Make it even faster don't bring any life for that poor creatures

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidmeetHal View Post
    I dunno, that all seems kinda OP to me.

    I fail to see how shortening the cooldowns on Light of the Rising Dawn, Cracked Earth, Sticky Gourd and Ring of Fire would be kinda OP.
    All I can see it being is a viable patch to make rotations a lot smoother.

    LMs right now are seen debuff monkeys because their damage output is not viable.

    Stealth detection is already a shared cast, stun immune can be too.

    I am not asking for skill damage buffing, just smoother rotations so that you're not a sitting duck at times.

    Lightning on every staff-strike wont break the skill, just make it more viable. The 60s cooldown for a stun is annoying.
    LMs have no other way to stun, or interrupt inductions, outside of the 60s CD on staff-strike and Bane Flare, 30s CD on Light of the Rising Dawn and 15s on Blinding Flash.
    2 of those skills are supposed to be used to control a crowd so it doesn't get too out of hand that you'd die.

    LMs are way overdue for new combat pets.

    If SSG is giving LM pets Beleriand damage then they may as well give different damage types to different types of pets based on which talisman we are using.

    Brooches and stickpins are obviously a missed opportunity since captains armaments give herald stats while standards give the captain stats.

    I hate the damage per second on power of knowledge and there should be an effective way to stay alive at low-to-mid levels.
    I am aware of Water-lore at level 77 but it'll take weeks to get there, depending on how much you play and how often you are close to dying. (thanks ineffective pets)

    There is also nothing wrong with shortening the CDs on your bigger skills to 1 minute each.

    Wisdom of the Council is the ONLY emergency heal in the game that has a 5 minute cooldown
    Yes, triumphant spirit for minstrels is at a 4 minute CD but if you need to rely on that skill then you're not doing your job properly.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    LMs right now are seen debuff monkeys because their damage output is not viable.
    No, they are seen as a debuff-support class ( not sure why you would say monkey here ) because they were, from the ground up, designed for that role, weakening the enemy through various means. Every single class in the game has has their role and this will not change no matter how hard you press it.
    Sure, if they go against their philosophy (which I do hope for, trait trees not being viable is perplexing to me), then LM would still be at the bottom, considering they can already heal and debuff, with a good LM pushing 15-18k HPS on a single target, along with 5% damage return as morale being insanely good for DPS healing.

    Only touches LMs need right now is fixing some bugs and make the pet rotation smoother. They are an amazing class and should not get any more than that, there are classes with a lot more urgent issues than this.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by zaboch View Post
    they can already heal and debuff, with a good LM pushing 15-18k HPS on a single target, along with 5% damage return as morale being insanely good for DPS healing.

    One of my points is that before learning Water-lore, Lore-masters are screwed.
    And I also never said a thing about changing their philosophy, just to make their rotations smoother.
    I say "debuff monkey" because no one wants a LM that's not doing just that and tossing around a Water-lore or two.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    I say "debuff monkey" because no one wants a LM that's not doing just that and tossing around a Water-lore or two.
    Good, then it means their design is working as intended.

    No one wants a DPS Guardian, a Chank (usually, though with a healer they work), Y/B Hunter, Red Mini....I can go on but my point's been made.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    I fail to see how shortening the cooldowns on Light of the Rising Dawn, Cracked Earth, Sticky Gourd and Ring of Fire would be kinda OP.
    All I can see it being is a viable patch to make rotations a lot smoother.
    - I agree with cooldown reductions on Light of the Rising Dawn, Cracked Earth but not Sticky and Ring of Fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    LMs right now are seen debuff monkeys because their damage output is not viable.
    - They are debuff monkeys because that is their PRIMARY and quite frankly their ONLY role. They also do well as off-healers, or healers for 3man instances, they are especially taken in place of healers in T5 3mans.

    - In terms of their damage output not being viable, whilst it will never and should never reach levels similar to an actual DPS class, which it doesn't, in AoE pulls, LM's can do exceedingly well, on my own Lore-Master recently in a TG T3 run, I was averaging 100k-200k DPS on every AoE trash pull, which for the primary debuffer in the game, is already pretty OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Stealth detection is already a shared cast, stun immune can be too.
    - This skill was changed many years ago, for an appropriate reason, the skill was too overpowered, having a 1min duration with almost no cooldown allowed you to Anti-Stun your entire raid/fellowship, which negated a lot of mechancis completely, not to mention it was also ridiculously overpowered in PvMP. This skill is perfectly fine where it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    I am not asking for skill damage buffing, just smoother rotations so that you're not a sitting duck at times.
    - You should always have something to do, between debuffing, stacking Water-Lore, CCing, or DPSing, you will always have something off cooldown that will help in someway, it's not all about how fast can I kill this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Lightning on every staff-strike wont break the skill, just make it more viable. The 60s cooldown for a stun is annoying.
    - It used to be on every critical hit with staff-strike that it would stun the target, I don't know why it was changed, would like to see it put back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    LMs have no other way to stun, or interrupt inductions, outside of the 60s CD on staff-strike and Bane Flare, 30s CD on Light of the Rising Dawn and 15s on Blinding Flash.
    2 of those skills are supposed to be used to control a crowd so it doesn't get too out of hand that you'd die.
    - And.... You are arguing what exactly here? Most classes have 1 interrupt at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    LMs are way overdue for new combat pets.
    - Considering our Eagle / Sabre-tooth are 'almost' hardly ever used, I'd prefer to see a revamp to their skills rather than introducing more pets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Brooches and stickpins are obviously a missed opportunity since captains armaments give herald stats while standards give the captain stats.
    - And a Captain cannot wear both - one or the other. I agree LMs should have the same option, but, as we are the more pet-orientated/focused class of the two, I understand why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    I hate the damage per second on power of knowledge and there should be an effective way to stay alive at low-to-mid levels.
    I am aware of Water-lore at level 77 but it'll take weeks to get there, depending on how much you play and how often you are close to dying. (thanks ineffective pets)

    There is also nothing wrong with shortening the CDs on your bigger skills to 1 minute each.
    - There is a LOT wrong with shortening the CDs on big skills to 1 minute each. Lore-Masters, like Captains are the absolute bedrock of group content, especially raids, never once not having a gauranteed spot. You want to take a class that is already is an extremely good position in its role and make it even more Overpowered? Sorry, but no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Wisdom of the Council is the ONLY emergency heal in the game that has a 5 minute cooldown
    - First of all, not true, Never surrender for Wardens is 10minutes cooldown (5minutes in blue), Touch and Go for Burglars is also a 5minute cooldown - so, lol? I would agree with shortening this to 2m 30s however.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewmidget View Post
    Yes, triumphant spirit for minstrels is at a 4 minute CD but if you need to rely on that skill then you're not doing your job properly.
    - 4 Minutes? when was the last time you played minstrel? It's 45 seconds lol.

  15. #15
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    Hi,
    I have a different point of view:
    1. LM should not have the possibility to play as an DD at high tiers- and this is already existing. For landscape and low tiers LM is fine and I see no need to change it. Anyone that say that he got a three digit value of "DPS" in high Tier mean that he got a DPS spike value, this spike will be approx. every 1.5 min and between them he will have a two digit value only- this value can be relative high if he won't debuff, rotate pets and heal but then your fellow will need to ask them self if it's worth to use an LM for this role. nevertheless, if someone will take an LM to any high tier (Tier 5) as an DD he will cause his fellow friend, and also to himself, a big time sink, boring game play, sever lags and yes- a big visual show of fire, smoke and lightning. People need to understand that Lore masters are not sorcerer's!!! this is not a DND game.
    2. Inductions: they are long, yes, but the main problem is that you can't break them if you want/need and therefore they are root you at place- this I would like to change first!
    3. Sign of power: Righteousness, I would be more than happy if we could get more duration (20s). let's face it- we can put a permanent anti-stun with this skill so why the way need to be so irritated, increase the duration to 30s or more and free us from this boredom.
    4. DPS on move: I against that, instead I would like to see debuff on move- this is more relevant to endgame.
    5. Heal: in my opinion, LM healing is too low and very irritating to use. If you are playing with players that don’t need so much of healing (mainly tanks) and know how to play with LM its OK but if you don’t…well… it’s a time sink disaster and frustration. I personally stop to play/join with pugs, that’s it.
    6. Wisdom of the council: I would like to use this skill for healing role with lower CD and mass healing ability. this can be only under one trait line, and under a "set bonus" so you cant use/pick it with other trait lines.
    7. Pets: according to the lore no one (no class) is using pets except maybe Radagast. I think that using pets should be only under one trait line (yellow) and without the possibility to re-summon/rotate them during fight. The other trait lines should represent the other great LM's in middle earth and with no pets!! maybe red trait for Gandalf and blue for Elrond (healing role). But this boat has sailed and I see no chance that SSG will change it. From time to time I see that ppl asking to add more useless pets-maybe an Octopus to run Filth-well?

 

 

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