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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    I always seen the name for that part of the book to have a dual meaning. Looking at it from both perspectives allows the word scour to be equally applicable. Imo Saruman didn't think highly of the Hobbits and saw the Shire as an infestation. Clearing the Shire out to serve his purposes.
    I don't know where you've got that notion from. Saruman was in the process of enslaving the hobbits rather than getting rid of them so I can't see how that's applicable at all, let alone equally with the obvious meaning of the hobbits clearing out him and his ruffians. What Frodo and the others found on their return would have been very different and far more horrible if Saruman had treated the hobbits as an infestation to be cleared out. Besides which, cleared out to what purpose? Saruman plainly rather enjoyed the fruits of the hobbits' labour, the food and drink and pipeweed and so on, and he'd been doing just that while reducing them to miserable servitude.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    This would be different. The Scouring isn't a "big event" like the great battles of the war, it's purposely low-key, the hobbits cleaning house in a way that they could and fighting enemies that they could feasibly deal with by themselves - it's *their* story, not ours, nor that of any of the rest of the Fellowship. The point Halphast made was a very good one - none of the rest of the Fellowship were there, Gandalf having gone off by himself after they'd visited Bree, so there is absolutely no plausibility to our characters continuing to trail along after them like dogs on a leash when nobody else does. Story-wise, Gandalf had to be elsewhere so as to not dominate what happened, but you think it'd be okay for us to be there and dominate the whole thing instead? The best thing the devs could do would be either (a) have the whole thing as session play, with our characters out of the way entirely or (b) we have a parallel side-story that allows the events of the Scouring to play out as they should while we still help in some way, i.e. without us being seen to intervene in a way that would be so obtrusive as to make the whole thing our story.
    I would expect the writers at SSG to know what the Scouring of the Shire means and write an appropriate parallel story for our character. After all, ultimately, none of our characters are any more "knights in shining armor" than Merry and Pippin are. Which is to say, Merry and Pippin are, literally, knights in shining armor, and do for their home what knights in shining armor are expected to do, while still being Merry and Pippin Our characters came from humble beginnings just as they did (or in the case of High Elves, have been helping out before they fade into the West). I would expect the devs to come up with a story that suitably brings home the fact that our characters are still that hobbit who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, or that Beorning simply sending messages, or that dwarf escaping slavery in Mordor for a new life. Not to tell us what that means, but just to give us suggestions to ponder for ourselves.

    After all, it's not just the Shire that ended up a mess at the end of the War. Bree is tyrannized. Rivendell and Lothlorien are ending; their power is gone with the One. There are so many stories that could be told tailored to our character's race while paralleling the story of the Scouring.

    But perhaps bringing smallness, a reminder of mortality (or fading), and what happens after the War is over to an MMO character wouldn't go over that well. Going home again is a hard story to tell.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starsmith View Post
    I would expect the writers at SSG to know what the Scouring of the Shire means and write an appropriate parallel story for our character. After all, ultimately, none of our characters are any more "knights in shining armor" than Merry and Pippin are. Which is to say, Merry and Pippin are, literally, knights in shining armor, and do for their home what knights in shining armor are expected to do, while still being Merry and Pippin Our characters came from humble beginnings just as they did (or in the case of High Elves, have been helping out before they fade into the West). I would expect the devs to come up with a story that suitably brings home the fact that our characters are still that hobbit who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, or that Beorning simply sending messages, or that dwarf escaping slavery in Mordor for a new life. Not to tell us what that means, but just to give us suggestions to ponder for ourselves.
    Come off it, the game's always made a point of bigging up the player-characters, giving them exaggerated flashy powers and making everybody else look weak and ineffectual so that there's always an excuse for the mighty PCs to sweep in and save the day. What makes that ring doubly hollow is that we have High Elves and Beornings as playable characters. There's nothing humble about being one of the Noldor or being able to turn into a bear, those just underscore player-character exceptionalism. Merry and Pippin are only meant to be exceptional by hobbit standards, not across the board.

    Also, before saying "none of our characters" you should really have considered what happens in the High Elf intro!

    After all, it's not just the Shire that ended up a mess at the end of the War. Bree is tyrannized. Rivendell and Lothlorien are ending; their power is gone with the One. There are so many stories that could be told tailored to our character's race while paralleling the story of the Scouring.
    You're not comparing like with like there. (Also, Bree didn't get taken over, the locals ran the ruffians out of town).

    But perhaps bringing smallness, a reminder of mortality (or fading), and what happens after the War is over to an MMO character wouldn't go over that well. Going home again is a hard story to tell.
    More than that, it'd come across as disingenuous to try to make the player-characters seem humble now. Especially the ones who aren't humble by any stretch of the imagination.

  4. #54
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    Just curious....

    The lore explains the existence of "Half Elves", see here for one: https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Half-elven

    But could the relatively limited amount of human/elven offspring be enough for its own race?

    From a pure GAMING view, the half elf would make a perfect new race, inheriting some traits from man, some from elves, and may be perfect for certain classes.
    But is there enough of a back story to create a half-elven race? There is evidence they existed, sure.... but is there enough lore?


    I do know this: The fact that they are working on race (and possibly sex) change options, does tell me we may see more races coming, and they might want to give the players the opportunity to switch so they don't have to start all over again....
    Also the fact they went back to the 2nd age for the telling of Mordor Besieged, it would not surprise me they will go back in time to find the lore for additional races.

    I would also love to see the Dunlending as a race.... a group of people with a divided loyalty that after the fall of Sauron may have made peace with Rohan and Gondor, something that might be possible to tell in a new epic story line after the Black Book of Mordor, which has now ended.... As for classes, the Hunter, Champion, Guardian and Loremaster come to mind.... perhaps with a NEW class, something that falls more within the Dunlending lore. Although also used among orcs, the Shaman comes to mind as a class that might be able to channel their dark magics for good causes, using poison and disease to kill the enemy, specializing in damage over time (more so even than the loremaster does, with less direct damage) and otherwise healing overtime by channeling health from the enemy to its allies in battle.... something like that.

    (I am now foretelling a few lore-supported replies in how this absolutely cannot be possible in 3....2....1... )
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015! Now also playing on ANOR!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Also, before saying "none of our characters" you should really have considered what happens in the High Elf intro!
    I did *explicitly* mention the High Elf intro and the Epic Quest in Celondim for them

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starsmith View Post
    I did *explicitly* mention the High Elf intro and the Epic Quest in Celondim for them
    Sure, while pretending they're just 'helping' when it's nothing like the way the High Elves help out in the book but actually going around in the company of mortals, openly fighting the Enemy like it's an earlier Age.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    But could the relatively limited amount of human/elven offspring be enough for its own race?

    From a pure GAMING view, the half elf would make a perfect new race, inheriting some traits from man, some from elves, and may be perfect for certain classes.
    But is there enough of a back story to create a half-elven race? There is evidence they existed, sure.... but is there enough lore?
    You know the answer to that already, it's been discussed enough times: of course there isn't. The fact that Tolkien's Elves were immortal made it incredibly unlikely they'd marry mortals and so it almost never happened. This isn't D&D.

    Also the fact they went back to the 2nd age for the telling of Mordor Besieged, it would not surprise me they will go back in time to find the lore for additional races.
    Such as? It wouldn't make any difference how far you might go back as far as Half-elves go, they'd always been as rare as rocking-horse droppings.

    I would also love to see the Dunlending as a race....
    Err... they're Men. And not just that, but they shared common ancestry with the Bree-landers (originally from the White Mountains).

    a group of people with a divided loyalty
    More that after Saruman's downfall they realised he'd played them for fools, as the Rohirrim spared their lives and treated them honourably. As for that new class - whatever else, it can't have dark magic (that'd be sorcery, Sauron's stock in trade, and entirely evil) and equally you can't have guys going around using poison and disease like Orcs would because that, too, would be pretty damn evil. There's a persistent theme that you can't do good by using the devices of the Enemy, plus you could hardly have some dude like that palling around with Elves and Dunedain, now could you?

  8. #58
    I would think the best way to handle the Scouring of the Shire would be, through whatever book we are on at the time's quest, informing us of some battle, or trickles of rumors of, that happened in the Shire, while we were off cleaning up some other mess. When we get back to the Shire (the main quest could have more important immediate things happening, stall for time) the hobbits have all but cleaned up the mess (mostly) on their own and if we would like we could hear (instanced story as a random hobbit) how things went down. I agree with others that the Scouring was and is an issue that the Hobbits need to solve on there own. All other insatnces (that I'm aware of) where other races running around places where you would not imagine them being (21st hall, ect. ) happened after the fellowship passed through thus changing how things were done.

    On topic: I would love to see a new hobbit-kin race, my vote is for loremaster.

    On a side note I would like to see a playable race of Man from the far east or south, perhaps linked to the fates of the Blue Wizards.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by burntsuntea View Post
    I would think the best way to handle the Scouring of the Shire would be, through whatever book we are on at the time's quest, informing us of some battle, or trickles of rumors of, that happened in the Shire, while we were off cleaning up some other mess. When we get back to the Shire (the main quest could have more important immediate things happening, stall for time) the hobbits have all but cleaned up the mess (mostly) on their own....
    I'd guess this is the best way to do it, but oh how people will complain that we don't get to participate...

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    Just curious....

    The lore explains the existence of "Half Elves", see here for one: https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Half-elven

    But could the relatively limited amount of human/elven offspring be enough for its own race?

    From a pure GAMING view, the half elf would make a perfect new race, inheriting some traits from man, some from elves, and may be perfect for certain classes.
    But is there enough of a back story to create a half-elven race? There is evidence they existed, sure.... but is there enough lore?
    All else aside, such a creature doesn't really exist in Tolkien, not in the sense of a person with some Mannish and some Elven traits. Elrond is certainly no frailer than any other Elf and no less immortal! The primary difference between Men and Elves is mortality and their fate; Elves are immortal and their fates are tied to the Music and Arda, Men are mortal and Gifted to make their own destiny in the world and then leave it. Everything else is downstream from that. Not really possible to be half-immortal or half-tied-to-the-Music.

    There is, apparently, something about Imrahil's appearance that marked him out as obviously descended from Elves, but Tolkien never said in the books what it was, exactly. So, there's some appearance effect, but it's probably not something that always shows up or is always obvious, since Boromir is Imrahil's nephew yet Legolas didn't feel compelled to make the same observations about his Elf extraction. May as well make a Dunedain race! Enough of them are descended from Elros after 40 generations anyway, and it's about as close as you'll get to a D&D style "half-elven" race.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starsmith View Post
    All else aside, such a creature doesn't really exist in Tolkien, not in the sense of a person with some Mannish and some Elven traits. Elrond is certainly no frailer than any other Elf and no less immortal! The primary difference between Men and Elves is mortality and their fate; Elves are immortal and their fates are tied to the Music and Arda, Men are mortal and Gifted to make their own destiny in the world and then leave it. Everything else is downstream from that. Not really possible to be half-immortal or half-tied-to-the-Music.

    There is, apparently, something about Imrahil's appearance that marked him out as obviously descended from Elves, but Tolkien never said in the books what it was, exactly. So, there's some appearance effect, but it's probably not something that always shows up or is always obvious, since Boromir is Imrahil's nephew yet Legolas didn't feel compelled to make the same observations about his Elf extraction. May as well make a Dunedain race! Enough of them are descended from Elros after 40 generations anyway, and it's about as close as you'll get to a D&D style "half-elven" race.
    maartena's been told before that these aren't conventional (D&D-style) half-Elves but concepts like fate, free will and the Gift of Men are evidently too abstruse to register. All the previous times this topic's come up seem to be forgotten.

    As for Imrahil, just because Legolas (and presumably other Elves) can tell he's got Elvish ancestry doesn't mean everyone else can (the tale of Imrazor and Mithrellas was one of those legendary "it is said" things rather than being taken as historical fact, so it evidently wasn't obvious to Men) The guy's high Dunedain nobility in any case and so very fancy-pants indeed and like Denethor and Faramir he's one of the few to still have some measure of the 'air of Numenor' about them. And the guys who do are all significant figures, not down-at-heel adventurers. There's a reason the game never had playable Dunedain any more than it did half-Elves, and it'd be really sad and sorry to go back on that after all this time. Besides, I doubt MoL would really want to rewrite all the quest text that wouldn't make sense if characters could be Dunedain, there's tons of it.

 

 
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